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"Read a lot into it. Quinn on track to be the starter"


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DA had his chance and failed, for reasons well documented. And now BQ deserves his shot.

 

It's that simple right now.

 

no, it's about who's the better QB. Same as it always is.

 

the only thing that could change that is Lerner pulling another Al Davis like he did last year.

 

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no, it's about who's the better QB. Same as it always is.

 

the only thing that could change that is Lerner pulling another Al Davis like he did last year.

 

You've done good work in covering all bases here Lumfreddy, gotta love it.

 

So the best QB will start unless it's Quinn, at that point it's because Lerner is meddling.

 

I gotcha.

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There are definite differences between the two, though. Quinn is (unless evidence lies) a smarter guy who absorbs an offense and gets through his reads quicker. He's also a noted workaholic like Manning, a guy who will know the opposing defense as well as possible. He's a fitness freak. He's a way better athlete and more mobile than Anderson.

 

Anderson is a laid back guy unlikely to care if a team becomes "his team," which is good because it could never be. He's a very gifted natural thrower with a big arm and a tight spiral. He's way more comfortable going over the top downfield, which is sort of the modern day NFL version of a Yeti, unfortunately. It can be taken away pretty easily and when it was, Anderson became the lowest rated passer in the NFL.

 

Never again in his life will DA be given the deep ball. Never. Ditto for Jamarcus Russell. Can they transform into giant Drew Breeses? Probably not... which means they're screwed.

 

So can Quinn be the guy he's most compared to, Tom Brady? He has a very similar arm but Brady has become consistently accurate all over the field, something Quinn has yet to prove. I don't believe Quinn has arm strength issues at all -- he has more arm than Brees, about the same as Manning and Brady -- but he does have to show he can stay locked in on the strike zone, even 30 yards downfield.

 

We'll see. Manning always says knowing what you're doing with the ball improves your footwork and anticipation... and therefore your accuracy. Almost any quarterback can throw patterns to uncovered WRs over and over and over. In that sense, almost all of them are "accurate." But add in a tricky pass defense and some pressure and that changes everything.

 

So we'll see what Quinn can do given the reins for 10 games or so. I don't see how we do otherwise.

 

shep once again your praise has no basis.

 

who told you quinn absorbed the offense and got through reads better?

 

The reason Quinn checked down instantly was because he DOESN'T know his reads.

 

Basically he's like Charlie Frye except with a 15% lower completion percentage.

 

And nobody outside of Fatso Weis ever compared Quinn to Tom Brady.

 

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Quinn is (unless evidence lies) a smarter guy who absorbs an offense and gets through his reads quicker. He's also a noted workaholic like Manning, a guy who will know the opposing defense as well as possible. He's a fitness freak. He's a way better athlete and more mobile than Anderson.

 

Shep you are right that Quinn is a workaholic and a fitness freak, and more mobile. However, I don't know why you consider him smarter and a better athlete. If he was a better athlete wouldn't he have the better arm? Wasn't Anderson a basketball star? He moves good for a big guy and has a rocket arm ... that's a good athlete. As for the "smarter" thing, it's obvious that it's obvious to you ... but based on what? A wunderlic score? Anderson has never struck me as dumb and Quinn has never struck me as Einstein. They're both smart enough ... stick to your gym rat theory, that is what Quinn has going for him ... and better (let's hope) accuracy.

 

 

Anderson is a laid back guy unlikely to care if a team becomes "his team," which is good because it could never be.

 

Sorry, Shep, but that smells like horseshit to me. Anderson had the lockerroom, that was never, ever a problem. Again, stick to "gym rat", "prepared" and "accuracy" ... those are your selling points. The rest kinda seems like smarmy PR. Let's stick to what we know: Quinn is a workout freak who most likely is a "better passer of the football" than Anderson .. that's all he needs to win the job, is to pass better. No need to make Quinn into Einstein or paint Anderson as a bad athlete with no leadership skills ... cause it's not true.

 

He's a very gifted natural thrower with a big arm and a tight spiral. He's way more comfortable going over the top downfield, which is sort of the modern day NFL version of a Yeti, unfortunately. It can be taken away pretty easily and when it was, Anderson became the lowest rated passer in the NFL.

 

Never again in his life will DA be given the deep ball. Never. Ditto for Jamarcus Russell. Can they transform into giant Drew Breeses? Probably not... which means they're screwed.

 

Again ... not buying it. Big arms will never be passe in the NFL . They just need to come with accuracy as well. That is what Anderson is missing. Brees is the exception, not the rule. Brady, P. Manning and Big Ben all have very strong arms ... and six super bowls. Big arms and big bodies are still valued .. you just need to be accurate too.

 

So can Quinn be the guy he's most compared to, Tom Brady?

Really? I didn't know that was his comparison.

 

You know ... you can win this argument real easy ... all you have to say is that Quinn is a better passer than Anderson and I'll agree with you. But you keep going to these bizarre lengths to pump up Quinn and tear down Anderson. You don't need to. And he doesn't need you to. All he needs to do, is what we all suspect he can: be a better passer than Anderson, maintain it for a year or so ... and the job is all his.

 

Zombo

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...So can Quinn be the guy he's most compared to, Tom Brady?...

 

BradyQuinn1210.jpg

 

Thanks Shep. I've been waiting to post this of me (on left) and my brother-in-law. :)

 

 

 

 

On DA vs BQ smarts, intelligence is hard to guage in this context. However, I will say I did not see Quinn (at ND) look as lost and clueless as DA has at times. He manages a clock well (we've seen DA mess this up), and Weis has always said he's like having another coach on the field. If the helmet com goes dead, I'm betting Quinn will just call a play, not run to the sidelines looking for answers.

 

Having said that, I like DA. He's affable, has a big arm, etc, etc. I'm just sooooooo ready to see what Quinn can do. That's all.

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Lum, if you're a draftnick and a football nut

 

reading "Bleacher Reports" and following the OBR spoogefest doesn't mean you know football shep.

 

the real news is what the players/coaches say in their interviews. And by the number of reporter recaps you post and the Grossi slants you accept it seems that you don't watch the interviews on clevelandbrowns.com

 

And if any reputable non-Notre Dame based publication claimed that Brady Quinn was gonna be Tom Brady then Quinn is on the brink of becoming one of the biggest busts in history.

 

 

 

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Just a few questions---- Who is comparing Brady Quinn (with 3 starts) to Tom Brady???? Who says that the Browns could NEVER be DA's team?????

 

If we're gonna give Quinn credit for the 2 dropped passes in his "cameo" against SF then we must give DA credit for the numerous dropped passes that he's endured...

 

Quinn is smarter,

Quinn absorbs the offense better than DA,

Quinn goes through his reads quicker than DA (is that with or without the concussion),

Quinn is a workaholic,

Quinn is a fitness freak (don't know what that has to do with anything),

Quinn is a way better athlete (assumption not fact).........

So many absolutes thrown Quinns way but in reality it's just opinions....

 

My question about BQ is --CAN HE BEAT THE STEELERS and so far nobody has that answer... More than likely Quinn starts this year, he deserves the chance and for the Browns sake I hope he's better than DA..But on the other hand, IMO, DA ain't exactly chopped liver.....

 

peace

 

T.Dawg

 

 

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I'm not sure I'm following all the way, Zombo. We're talking vital characteristics of great quarterbacks and you're saying... something I'm not quite getting. None of it matters?

 

From what I read and I read a lot, Quinn gets through his progressions much more quickly, reads defenses better, and got a higher score on his Wonderlic. Weis said nobody including Tom Brady ever picked up his offense so fast. I'm following the fairly popular opinion that Quinn is smarter than Anderson. It ain't a huge stretch.

 

Better athlete? Well, Quinn is faster, stronger, and quicker. I'm not sure if you're being obtuse about either of these points, but it really isn't a stretch to say Quinn is smarter, more athletic/mobile, and harder working.

 

Is he more of a leader type? That's how I've always heard it. He's a more fiery guy, a more take-charge-of-the-huddle guy. Anderson is more laid back, not a very big personality. Does he "have the locker room?" Not as sure what that means. I think he's a nice guy and people are fine with him.

 

Does he fire anybody up, inspire confidence? I don't see that at all, nor have I ever read it.

 

shep these are things that YOU think when YOU look at Quinn. You are attracted to him and that does crazy things to your hormones.

 

There isn't anything to back up your feelings on leadership, being fiery, taking charge of the huddle, time spent working out, ability to run an offense, even athletic ability. It's all stuff that you dream up and it has to do with your estrogen level.

 

I'm pretty impressed that you continue to pimp Quinn as a leader with all the shit that's happened to him as evidence of the opposite. So you're focused at least.

 

 

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Zombo, good post.

 

However, I disagree on the "he moves well for a big guy" thing. He moves like shit. His footwork when he's under pressure is a real liability. He simply can't avoid the rush at the level of most NFL QB's and when his feet get "happy" his ability to improvise is severly limited. He does not move anywhere near as well as Brady/Rot-less-burger. Hell, he doesn't move as well inside the pocket as Manning (who is damn well immobile). He might have been all state in basketball, but it was probably wasn't because he was slashing to the rim.

 

He's a good golfer which fits the small motor movement stuff needed by most QB's.

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Just wait till Quinn beats the snot out of DA in training camp and he goes ballistic on the boards pulling the "lerner is calling the shots" card. It's really going to be a hoot....

 

Seeing as how it's a fact that Lerner made the QB switch last season (reported by Trent Dilfer, acknowledged by Fraley-Braylon-Jamal, confirmed by Anderson), it's certainly reasonable to look out for it in the future.

 

On the other hand, you and the rest of BQ Nation are stuck having to try to promote an idea that was rejected by the doctors, the coaches, and Quinn himself: that the boo boo on his finger was the sole reason he couldn't complete more than one third of his passes vs Buffalo and Houston.

 

 

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Shep you are right that Quinn is a workaholic and a fitness freak, and more mobile. However, I don't know why you consider him smarter and a better athlete. If he was a better athlete wouldn't he have the better arm? Wasn't Anderson a basketball star? He moves good for a big guy and has a rocket arm ... that's a good athlete.

 

And Quinn moves better, and has better accuracy, as well as plenty of arm. Hence 'better athlete'.

 

As for the "smarter" thing, it's obvious that it's obvious to you ... but based on what? A wunderlic score? Anderson has never struck me as dumb and Quinn has never struck me as Einstein. They're both smart enough ... stick to your gym rat theory, that is what Quinn has going for him ... and better (let's hope) accuracy.

 

Based on the fact that Quinn seems to have been able to pick up the two minute drill on 2-3 days worth of practice, while Anderson STILL can't run the damn thing without help from the sidelines.

 

Who was wearing a wristband his second season of starting?

 

Yeah. That Derek.

 

Again ... not buying it. Big arms will never be passe in the NFL . They just need to come with accuracy as well. That is what Anderson is missing. Brees is the exception, not the rule. Brady, P. Manning and Big Gay Ben all have very strong arms ... and six super bowls. Big arms and big bodies are still valued .. you just need to be accurate too.

 

Neither Tom Brady NOR Peyton Manning have huge, Anderson-type arms. Favre has a big arm. No one says 'OMG, look at how far Tom Brady/Peyton Manning can chuck the ball' nor 'that got there on a rope', because they aren't that impressive. Ben's arm isn't what gets him the attention - it's that he strong/big enough to drag tacklers and throw the ball.

 

Derek doesn't have Ben's size - he's a tall guy, who is easy to tackle, and gets a heck of a lot of passes knocked down for being so tall.

 

Big bodies might be valued, but only if they are the right 'type'. Same with strong arms. Too bad for Derek he has neither of the valuable ones.

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All he needs to do, is what we all suspect he can: be a better passer than Anderson, maintain it for a year or so ... and the job is all his.

 

Zombo

 

I also think it's that simple.

 

But this has also been the root of the golden boy's problems.

 

and as Chris Mortenson says, "Derek Anderson can throw the friggen football"

 

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I'm not sure I'm following all the way, Zombo. We're talking vital characteristics of great quarterbacks and you're saying... something I'm not quite getting. None of it matters?

 

From what I read and I read a lot, Quinn gets through his progressions much more quickly, reads defenses better, and got a higher score on his Wonderlic. Weis said nobody including Tom Brady ever picked up his offense so fast. I'm following the fairly popular opinion that Quinn is smarter than Anderson. It ain't a huge stretch.

 

Better athlete? Well, Quinn is faster, stronger, and quicker. I'm not sure if you're being obtuse about either of these points, but it really isn't a stretch to say Quinn is smarter, more athletic/mobile, and harder working.

 

Is he more of a leader type? That's how I've always heard it. He's a more fiery guy, a more take-charge-of-the-huddle guy. Anderson is more laid back, not a very big personality. Does he "have the locker room?" Not as sure what that means. I think he's a nice guy and people are fine with him.

 

Does he fire anybody up, inspire confidence? I don't see that at all, nor have I ever read it.

 

How did this "popular opinion" that Quinn is smarter come about? I've never seen anyone (that matters) allude to any difference in intelligence between the two QBs. His college coach said he picked up the playbook quick? Ok ... did we hear from Derek's? I know Quinn studies alot, but that doesn't make him smarter. He may be. I don't know. How do you know? He is Irish so maybe he is brilliant...

 

Again with the wunderlic ... the list of great QBs that scored lower than Anderson is as long as your arm.

 

Athletic? One can run faster, the other can throw longer. Too bad one of them is not black, then we would know for sure who the better athlete is.

 

But if we held a decathalon here would be my bets:

 

100 metres, Quinn

Long Jump, Anderson

Shot, Anderson

High Jump, Quinn

400 metres, Quinn

110 metres Hurdles, Quinn

Discus, Anderson

Pole Vault, Anderson

Javelin, Anderson

1500 metres, Quinn

 

I got it 5-5

 

Am I being silly or "obtuse"? Sure. Because the only thing that matters is who throws the ball better on Sundays, and I'm figuring it will be Quinn.

 

If you remember, it was me (and a couple other guys, Vegasdawg for sure) that was pimping Quinn in college. I was posting youtube videos of Quinn as a junior while you were still moon-eyed over Leinart. In fact, the week of the "Bush-Push" game we were lined up on opposite sides, quinn was my boy, Leinart was yours.

 

And I have never stopped liking, or appreciating, or believing in Quinn ... I just don't like the way this board treats DA. We were dogshit before DA, and we were dogshit after DA ... but we were 13-11 with him. You don't throw for 4,000 yards and 29 TDs in the NFL because you are stupid and unathletic. And then there's the "weak schedule" argument, I really hate that one ... Giants, Ravens (3), Steelers (2), Cowboys, Patriots .... um, those are some big time defenses.

Sorry that he beat up on the Rams and Dolphins ... but he's had good games against the Giants, Ravens and Steeler defenses too.

 

13-11 with DA, 1-7 without him. 6'6" with a rocket arm, teammates love him. Helped turn a 4-12 team to a 10-5 team.

 

Here's the problem with Derek: Not accurate on easy routes that our offense needs to count on. That's why he should lose out to Quinn. Not because Quinn is smarter, better-looking, faster or local ... but because he throws a football more accurately. That's all I'm saying.

 

And for some reason you (Leinart Lover) are offended that I (Quinn's original pimp) won't go further and say he's smarter and has a better personality. I don't know who's smarter, I think they're both smart enough for the job. I don't know whose personality is better, I think they can both lead just fine. All I'm saying is that Quinn is probably the better passer, and that should win him the job.

 

Not sure why that raises so much ire. Anderson is a good Qb. Quinn should be better.

 

It's OK to like them both. Isn't it?

 

Zombo

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Zombo, good post.

 

However, I disagree on the "he moves well for a big guy" thing. He moves like shit. His footwork when he's under pressure is a real liability. He simply can't avoid the rush at the level of most NFL QB's and when his feet get "happy" his ability to improvise is severly limited. He does not move anywhere near as well as Brady/Rot-less-burger. Hell, he doesn't move as well inside the pocket as Manning (who is damn well immobile). He might have been all state in basketball, but it was probably wasn't because he was slashing to the rim.

 

He's a good golfer which fits the small motor movement stuff needed by most QB's.

Since you opened up the whole movement thing.... The average NFL QB gets sacked about 5% of the time measured sacks vs. attempts. DA in his entire career has been sacked about 3.7% of the time. DA replaced a guy who has been sacked 12.5% of the time, even though at least one poster here went on for a year beyond the point DA replaced him going on about how mobile that QB was. Now Quinn is sitting pretty at less than 2% but he hasn't really played that much.. if it pans out he could be great.... but DA's record isn't bad, especially for a "big guy".

 

Here's an interesting link.... http://www.fannation.com/blogs/post/361718

 

Aloha,

 

Steve

 

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How did this "popular opinion" that Quinn is smarter come about? I've never seen anyone (that matters) allude to any difference in intelligence between the two QBs. His college coach said he picked up the playbook quick? Ok ... did we hear from Derek's? I know Quinn studies alot, but that doesn't make him smarter. He may be. I don't know. How do you know? He is Irish so maybe he is brilliant...

 

Again with the wunderlic ... the list of great QBs that scored lower than Anderson is as long as your arm.

 

Athletic? One can run faster, the other can throw longer. Too bad one of them is not black, then we would know for sure who the better athlete is.

 

But if we held a decathalon here would be my bets:

 

100 metres, Quinn

Long Jump, Anderson

Shot, Anderson

High Jump, Quinn

400 metres, Quinn

110 metres Hurdles, Quinn

Discus, Anderson

Pole Vault, Anderson

Javelin, Anderson

1500 metres, Quinn

 

 

 

 

And for some reason you (Leinart Lover) are offended that I (Quinn's original pimp) won't go further and say he's smarter and has a better personality. I don't know who's smarter, I think they're both smart enough for the job. I don't know whose personality is better, I think they can both lead just fine. All I'm saying is that Quinn is probably the better passer, and that should win him the job.

 

 

It's OK to like them both. Isn't it?

 

Zombo

I'll give the edge to Quinn on the track comparison, he might pick up a couple, but Anderson may surprise people on the hurdles... he ran it in highschool and apparently did quite well.

 

The whole Leinart love thing with Shep amazes me.. Leinart is DA, They're quite comparable, only Leinart has a history of playing with better teams, yet being less successful at the NFL level.

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FYI besides being high school POY in football and basketball, Anderson was also all state in track. His top event was the 110 HH where he placed top 4. Quinn would have no chance.

 

Well, there ya go.

 

But I thought the pole vault might be close. I gave it to Anderson for his lanky body versus Quinn's lower center of gravity.

 

Seriously guys ... Anderson is not a doofus. He was a good find by Savage.

 

Hate Lums. You can even hate me. But there's no reason to hate DA, he's been better than was expected, and still might be a valuable asset to this team.

 

I still remember Steve Young absolutely gushing about him during and after the Giants game last year. Steve Young ... they don't come any more athletic and smart than that ... and he was real impressed.

 

Sure Da probably went out the next week and was maddingly inconsistent again ... that's why we are at this point ... but he's just not as bad as everyone seems to want him to be. In fact, on many sundays, he was pretty damn good.

 

Zombo

--Just didn't do it consistently enough ... but he is just 25

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I also think it's that simple.

 

But this has also been the root of the golden boy's problems.

 

and as Chris Mortenson says, "Derek Anderson can throw the friggen football"

 

 

 

I too can "throw the friggen football"

 

It doesnt mean I can hit a running reciever 20 yards out on the fly while I'm about sacked from the weak side.

 

 

Derek. Has. Inconsistency. And not the type that can be cured with a laxative. I love the guy, he's very personable and capable of great throws but the guy doesnt seem to be able to repeat his successes.

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I'm the original Quinn fag.

 

I just think Anderson gets a bad rap.

 

I feel like it's high school and I missed a few semesters. "Zombo, didn't you hear, all the cool kids hate Anderson now."

 

I just don't get the dynamics around here. It's like you have to choose a side. Like you have to bash one if you like the other.

 

No one likes Quinn more than me. I'm a Notre Dame fan for chrissake. I was pumping Quinn when Shep was courting Leinart and Inspecta was ... doing whatever he does. I brought Quinn to this board's attention. An Irish Golden Domer that grew up a Browns fan ... c'mon this guy is my Browns fantasy.

 

Yes, he's smart. Yes, he will over-achieve. Yes, he's dedicated. Yes, he's a fantastic passer. I've only been telling everybody that for five years.

 

I've never waivered on Quinn.

 

My whole point is about Derek Anderson. I think he is smarter, better and more athletic than 90% of the people on this board will give him credit for.

 

I've always liked Quinn better.

You don't have to bash one to like the other.

 

Zombo

--Sorry I had to explain

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that's right, it doesn't mean you can do that.

 

But Chris Mortensen didn't say it about you.

 

I dont think he said that about DA either, just that he can throw.... at least, thats what I think he said. I cant really find your source anywhere, lummy.

 

 

...

 

 

Wait, this Chris Mortensen is the one you're talking about?

Chris Mortensen: One Of The Worst Reporters In Sports

Oh, of course its just some uninformed nobody trashing a "well respected" NFL analyst, don't mind the fact that his points have merit to them. ;)

 

 

 

How come I don't see the majority of NFL reporters touting Anderson also? Last time I checked, NFL Total Access were set on Quinn, saying that Anderson should have been gone long ago.

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-tota...QB-competitions

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TD/INT ratio translates to wins -- the top four are Young, Brady, McNabb, and Manning. Anderson throws too many picks and completes too few of his passes to win consistently in today's NFL.

 

Shep, you are looking at an overall career when you name these 4. DA's thrown the ball 927 times, for a 1.22 TD/Int Ratio. After 1100 attempts Peyton Manning's TD/Int ratio was nearly identical to DA's current ratio. Steve Young's was just a tad better after 1100 attempts. McNabb's was pretty good at 1.68 after nearly 1300 attempts, and Tom Brady's was the best of the bunch at a thousand throws, with a 1.76 TD/Int ratio... but still worse than the 2/1 I see thrown out as a minimum acceptable TD/Int ratio.

 

Then let's look at some heroes here... Kosar's was probably better than all of them, Sipe's was all of .83.... way worse than DA. So what does it all mean? Basically, you can't compare the first couple years of a QB's play directly to a career of stats that have improved over time.

 

I won't even bother to check up on some of the Hall of Famers and soon to be Hall of Famers TD/Int ratios in their early career, but I suspect I'd find a surprising (to you anyways) lack of 2/1 TD/Int ratios in the mix.

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That's not really the point, D&S. It's that today's NFL passing games are far more efficient than in the past, and three of the four best in history are playing right now. Back in the day, you could get away with 1.22/1, but that's not good enough anymore.

 

The goal is now 2/1 and a 63% completion or higher. Guys like Rivers, Rodgers, and Ryan will be doing that with regularity. Cutler, too.

 

 

You are now backing up poorly thought out argument, by stating a fallacy... Indeed, Rodgers has a 2/1 TD/Int Ratio... in 1 year of starts. Cultler's last year was a 1.38, career 1.45, lower than DA's '07 numbers... only year he got close was the year he threw 9 TS to 5 Ints. Ryan has a career TD/Int total of 16/11, hardly a 2/1 ratio, and lower than DA's '07 results. While you were whining about DA's TD/Int ratio in 2007 - Rivers' was WORSE.. he certainly hasn't been doing it with regularity unless 2 of the 5 years he's played counts as "regularity".

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Guest AdaM
Wait... you're disputing that NFL passing offenses have become imminently more efficient, with completion percentages and TD/INT ratios much higher now than ever before? And that three of the four top ratio guys are in their primes right now? That with almost every offense connected to the WCO in some way, and every defense connected to Tampa 2 in some way, the day of the mad bombers is long gone?

 

And I'm the one with a poorly thought out argument? Pot, this is kettle. You're black.

 

Wow. Delusion, thy name is drunkandstoopid.

 

 

I Lol'd at this....

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