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TY Hilton


darren15
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Browns are talking to the Colts about TY Hilton,Colts want Houston's second in return

 

 

This was just discussed on sports radio this morning too

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Just now, TexasAg1969 said:

Because he makes stuff up?

Do I win?:P

 

Yes you win a DVD of Browns highlights from last season  to the present .....the closing titles and credits are longer than the actual DVD

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Just now, darren15 said:

 

Yes you win a DVD of Browns highlights from last season  to the present .....the closing titles and credits are longer than the actual DVD

Do I also get to be tied down by Madame Cruella for this?  Sign me up.:P

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There's no doubt in my mind the Browns are TRYING to acquire an offensive weapon, but these type of trades generally don't happen in the NFL (although they seem to be happening a bit more recently).  

Would a high-caliber WR like Hilton help Kizer and the Browns?  It certainly couldn't hurt, but we're still left with the fact Kizer isn't necessarily hitting receivers when they ARE open.  The only routes Kizer really appears to even ATTEMPT to WR's are the 10 yard "button-hook" and the deep sideline pass.  That's about it folks.  Kizer isn't avoiding WR's in the middle because people aren't open, he's avoiding just about anyone in the middle either because he's scared to make the throw, or Hue doesn't trust him and doesn't design plays for the middle.  Again, this isn't going to change any time soon.  

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13 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

Kizer isn't avoiding WR's in the middle because people aren't open, he's avoiding just about anyone in the middle either because he's scared to make the throw, or Hue doesn't trust him and doesn't design plays for the middle.  Again, this isn't going to change any time soon.  

So you don't think if we got a WR like Hilton, Hue would trust Kizer to throw up the middle to him?  Personally, I think if we had a really good WR, there would be no excuse not to throw the ball anywhere.  Including up the middle.  Even though Ty's getting a bit old.  Not sure if this is really on the table, but if it is, we should make it happen.  

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Like I said, I don't think it would HURT, but to answer your question...no.  No it wouldn't help Kizer throwing over the middle because Kizer has a tendency to miss high, and you can't miss high over the middle of the field because that's when you get picked off.  The missed pass to Higgins last week was a perfect example of this.  Higgins was open, but Kizer not only missed him high, he threw the ball late too.  What really hurts is our radio show hosts were at practice that week and saw Kizer execute that very same route and play to Higgins TWICE...perfectly.  But in the game...well...we know it's a different story.

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12 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

 The missed pass to Higgins last week was a perfect example of this.  

So you think all the passes Kizer throw's that gets intercepted is his fault?  I can think of several passes that he threw to Higgins (that got intercepted), was Higgins fault.  Much more so than Kizer's own.  And that goes for all of the other receiver's as well.  You can't put the blame on one person in this offense.  They all share it equally.  Like i said before, when you're dealing with lots of rookies, you will have this problem.  Too bad most people on this board can't see that.  We have no leader at QB, McCown would have been great, but he left.  Even if we draft the best QB in the draft next year, we will have the same issue.  There's nobody that played the game before to lead them.  Watson (Savage) and Wentz (Foles) both have QBs that played the game before.  You can say that about all rookie QB in the league.

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Listen, I am NOT saying that all of Kizer's interceptions were all his fault, nor have I ever said that.  But are MANY of them his fault?  Yes they are.  Like I've said before, I wouldn't MIND the interceptions as much if we could point to POSITIVE plays Kizer makes, especially scoring plays.  You see, THAT'S the killer.  Kizer doesn't have plays you can point to and say, "Ah-ha!  That's a play made by a starter right there!  We really needed that TD, and boy did Kizer come through for us."  Look at Deshaun Watson for example.  He made some truly awful throws yesterday...some real rookie mistakes.  That pick-6 was terrible, as was at least another pick.  His team lost by 3 points or so, and those turnovers could've been the difference in the game.  

But the difference between him and Kizer is that Watson also made some truly special plays.  Plays that resulted in TD's when the team needed them the most.  Throws Kizer couldn't THINK OF MAKING ever in his life.  While it's true Watson has WAY more talented receivers than Kizer, Kizer doesn't make the plays WHEN THEY ARE THERE.  That pick he threw in the end zone where Higgins was open a few weeks ago and he threw it 10 feet behind him?  The pick last week where he threw it ten feet too high?  The time last week when Njoku was breakdancing in the end zone because he was so wide open but Kizer didn't even see him because he was so locked in on another guy?  During the same game where Kizer didn't see Dreggs WIDE OPEN for another TD?  The awful throw to Njoku last week that he couldn't even touch in the end zone? The terrible throw yesterday when Njoku had a step on his defender but the ball landed 5 feet past his arms?  The play last week where he waited too long to throw the ball to Crow, and when he did throw it...it was 3 feet too high?  Kizer might not have the same caliber weapons that Watson has, but Kizer doesn't make the plays in the red zone when his guys ARE OPEN.  And nobody can argue that.  

Yes, Njoku dropped a 20 yard pass and it really hurt.  But hasn't dropped many this year, and Kizer has missed so many people in the end zone, that I can't point to hardly ANYTHING that says, "This is the guy.  He makes some terrible rookie decisions, but his positive plays are too much to ignore."

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14 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

Listen, I am NOT saying that all of Kizer's interceptions were all his fault, nor have I ever said that.  But are MANY of them his fault?  Yes they are.  Like I've said before, I wouldn't MIND the interceptions as much if we could point to POSITIVE plays Kizer makes, especially scoring plays.  You see, THAT'S the killer.  Kizer doesn't have plays you can point to and say, "Ah-ha!  That's a play made by a starter right there!  We really needed that TD, and boy did Kizer come through for us."  Look at Deshaun Watson for example.  He made some truly awful throws yesterday...some real rookie mistakes.  That pick-6 was terrible, as was at least another pick.  His team lost by 3 points or so, and those turnovers could've been the difference in the game.  

But the difference between him and Kizer is that Watson also made some truly special plays.  Plays that resulted in TD's when the team needed them the most.  Throws Kizer couldn't THINK OF MAKING ever in his life.  While it's true Watson has WAY more talented receivers than Kizer, Kizer doesn't make the plays WHEN THEY ARE THERE.  That pick he threw in the end zone where Higgins was open a few weeks ago and he threw it 10 feet behind him?  The pick last week where he threw it ten feet too high?  The time last week when Njoku was breakdancing in the end zone because he was so wide open but Kizer didn't even see him because he was so locked in on another guy?  During the same game where Kizer didn't see Dreggs WIDE OPEN for another TD?  The awful throw to Njoku last week that he couldn't even touch in the end zone? The terrible throw yesterday when Njoku had a step on his defender but the ball landed 5 feet past his arms?  The play last week where he waited too long to throw the ball to Crow, and when he did throw it...it was 3 feet too high?  Kizer might not have the same caliber weapons that Watson has, but Kizer doesn't make the plays in the red zone when his guys ARE OPEN.  And nobody can argue that.  

Yes, Njoku dropped a 20 yard pass and it really hurt.  But hasn't dropped many this year, and Kizer has missed so many people in the end zone, that I can't point to hardly ANYTHING that says, "This is the guy.  He makes some terrible rookie decisions, but his positive plays are too much to ignore."

And I agree with all of your points.  But how many rookie QBs have come into the league without any leaders and played well.  Even Goff didn't do well last season and he had much more weapons to work with.  Wentz did well last season, but he had a veteral team.  One that's been to the playoffs before.  The Browns have none of that and its not even close.  

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1 hour ago, dawg2fan said:

And I agree with all of your points.  But how many rookie QBs have come into the league without any leaders and played well.  Even Goff didn't do well last season and he had much more weapons to work with.  Wentz did well last season, but he had a veteral team.  One that's been to the playoffs before.  The Browns have none of that and its not even close.  

 

The Goff situation is a pretty fair example of how a young QB can really struggle and then get significantly better.  As I think back to what Goff did as a rookie, I remember thinking, "Boy did WE get lucky."  He did not look good, and I remember him being pretty overwhelmed.  His completion percentage was very low, and he threw too many picks.  This sounding familiar?  There is one little difference...Goff managed to throw a few TD's.  Not many mind you, as I think he only threw 5 in the 7 or so games he played, but go back and watch those throws.  Below is a link to Goff's 2016 highlights.  I want you to look at some of the throws and ask yourself if Kizer could really make those at any point this year.  Obviously some throws Kizer can make, but pay particular attention to the throws that go for a TD or the throws in the red zone.  

 

Now, if I'm being fair, and I'm trying to be, I think we could put together a video for Kizer that would look pretty similar, but the main difference would be the lack of quality throws by Kizer in the red zone.  Also, several of Goff's throws attack the middle of the field, and we all know Kizer can't do that.  Kizer needs better weapons, no doubt, but the simple truth is he squandered virtually every opportunity he's had in the red zone in the past several games, and the only TD's he DOES score come from 1 yard rushing TD's. 

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16 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

 

The Goff situation is a pretty fair example of how a young QB can really struggle and then get significantly better.  As I think back to what Goff did as a rookie, I remember thinking, "Boy did WE get lucky."  He did not look good, and I remember him being pretty overwhelmed.  His completion percentage was very low, and he threw too many picks.  This sounding familiar?  There is one little difference...Goff managed to throw a few TD's.  Not many mind you, as I think he only threw 5 in the 7 or so games he played, but go back and watch those throws.  Below is a link to Goff's 2016 highlights.  I want you to look at some of the throws and ask yourself if Kizer could really make those at any point this year.  Obviously some throws Kizer can make, but pay particular attention to the throws that go for a TD or the throws in the red zone.  

 

Now, if I'm being fair, and I'm trying to be, I think we could put together a video for Kizer that would look pretty similar, but the main difference would be the lack of quality throws by Kizer in the red zone.  Also, several of Goff's throws attack the middle of the field, and we all know Kizer can't do that.  Kizer needs better weapons, no doubt, but the simple truth is he squandered virtually every opportunity he's had in the red zone in the past several games, and the only TD's he DOES score come from 1 yard rushing TD's. 

Well, let's look at this:

his Oline is comparable to ours. That's about it.  but his RB: Gurley;  Ours: Crowell

WR: Tavon Austin, Robert Woods.  Ours: Other teams rejects (at least that's playing well). I'd put their TEs on par with ours even though i'd give them a slight edge since they're not rookies.

You can't compare the two.

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