"With the First Pick of the 2018 Draft, the Browns Select..."

[Dutch Oven]

3 minutes ago, BaconHound said:

OU is my favorite college team and there is no comparison between Mayfield and Manziel, Manziel was much more talented.  Baker is a great college QB but he is in an incredible offense with fantastic players around him.  If the Browns were looking to draft Sooners Zeus Brown, CeeDee Lamb and Mark Andrews and Dimitri Flowers in the late rounds would be on my list.

I've read two differing opinions on Orlando Brown: Both were positive, but one said that he definitely can be a LT in the NFL, while the other said that he most likely will have to move to RT. What say you?

[BaconHound]

1 minute ago, Dutch Oven said:

I've read two differing opinions on Orlando Brown: Both were positive, but one said that he definitely can be a LT in the NFL, while the other said that he most likely will have to move to RT. What say you?

RT, tends to get chippy if he is getting push around.  He could be dominate on the right side if the pressure is off of him.  If he had Trent Williams mentality he'd be a LT.

[calfoxwc]

about Allen - yes, he has had some tough games, vs Nebraska he had a terrible game. He has thrown without his feet set

because he is usually buying time in the pocket because he doesn't have a great cast around him, including the offensive line

and wr's. He has a few bad habits. But he is also very, very accurate, when in rhythm. Most qb's have to be coached up a bit

when they get to the pros. But check out last year:

[calfoxwc]

You don't get that by being inaccurate, not a good ball placement guy.

However, admittedly, he has times when the ball sails, etc. Let's compare how tough it is to adapt to

the NFL:

10/08/17 - QB Ben Roethlisberger threw a career-high five interceptions in Pittsburgh's 30-9 home loss to Jacksonville on Sunday.That's the most interceptions thorwin in one game by a Steelers quarterback since Mark Malone in 1987. The 35-year-old Roethlisberger contemplated retirement during the offseason. "He's not playing well, man," Steelers head coach Mike Tomlin said. "I'll let him speak for him." Roethlisberger now has a passer rating of 75.8, which would be his worst for an entire season since he posted a 75.4 passer rating in 2006  

and that is in the pros.

Interestingly, here is a write up on Kizer's faults:

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl-draft-profile-notre-dame-qb-deshone-kizer-lots-to-work-with-but-still-unpolished-153357830.html

Downside: Got too heavy by end of last season. Was at 250 pounds by USC game. Has taken a lot of hits in two years as runner and passer. Athletic testing numbers at combine were just OK. On-field throwing session in Indy was not great as he looked robotic with some of his throws to the left. Far more efficient throwing to his right. Some of his passing production was schemed up off play action. Mechanics seem to break down often, especially late in games. Tries to make off-balance or “hero” throws that lead to problems. Can hold onto ball too long, waiting for receivers to get open. Shaky ball-handling at times. Too turnover-prone, averaging more than one per game and throwing picks in 15 of his 23 college starts. Will lock onto and stare down his primary receiver, make poor reads and force balls into traffic:

NO qb is perfect. No player if perfect. Btw, I couldn't find a rothrapistbooger nfl profile, so....he did play at Miami of Ohio though,

and had a terrific cast of players around him, even when I was at Kent , Miami was a power player in the MAC.     

   I figure if rothlicksbooger had played for Wyoming, he wouldn't have done much more than Allen, who knows.

We'll see if he wows everybody at the combine and workouts - he won't have to be running most plays to avoid sacks, etc.

But the intangibles are tough to find. Kizer - doesn't have em.

[calfoxwc]

So, this is interesting:

guess who this is:

"Weaknesses

When rolling out, will float it a little too much when taking shots down the field. Allows passing windows to close quickly when he short­ arms his release. Needs a little more consistency on anticipatory throws outside the hash. Will get caught locking in on target bringing secondary charging in to make a play on the ball. Inconsistent footwork from the pocket. Arm gets ahead of his feet even with time to come to balance. Needs to pick up pace of his post-­snap setup. Has to put a little extra air on his field-­side throws. Can be a little flat with his downfield, touch throws. Has to eliminate the occasional nonchalant throw into tight quarters. Doesn't look comfortable yet with bootleg rollouts to the left. Broke a bone in his throwing wrist in October sidelining him for eight weeks. Dealt with arm and shoulder injuries as a baseball player in high school. Lower level of competition could cause issues for him adapting to NFL speed. "

Hint: it isn't this draft. Sure, there are things Josh Allen has to work on, but he has IT.

and, the qb above? Carson Wentz.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/carson-wentz?id=2555259

I say, Josh Allen is this draft's Carson Wentz. The defense rests, your honor. (Gipper reference)

[calfoxwc]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2708976-josh-allen-may-be-a-no-1-nfl-draft-pick-and-the-franchise-qb-your-team-needs

I'm sold on this kid. The comparison to Wentz is amazing. They play for the same head coach, same offense, fer cryin out loud.

Josh Allen is going to be terrific. He is the Browns' number one pick, even if I have to call sashi brown and tell him to STFU

and just draft him. LOL

But seriously, read up on Allen - he's the very real deal.

https://www.si.com/college-football/2017/05/16/josh-allen-wyoming-cowboys-2018-nfl-draft

[TexasAg1969]

Just now, TexasAg1969 said:

Read these and weep. He was not 71% in 2016.

He was 56.0% and this year 55.4% thru 9 games. 

https://www.foxsports.com/college-football/josh-allen-8-player-stats

That is pitiful for 2nd tier players.

And I don;t really need to read something that my eyes in 3 games have told me. He is not an NFL QB and I will bet you right now he never will be a starter unless injury requires it.

 

 

[Mark O]

1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Read these and weep. He was not 71% in 2016.

He was 56.0% and this year 55.4% thru 9 games. 

https://www.foxsports.com/college-football/josh-allen-8-player-stats

That is pitiful for 2nd tier players.

 

 

If those numbers are right.  I've only seen him play once and that was last season.  But I don't want a guy who doesn't complete at least 60% in college, especially against a very weak Mountain West conference.

[calfoxwc]

completion percentage assumes that you have the same quality wr's to meet the limit, as well as offensive line protection,

a little running game to match, maybe a solid, very good TE...Allen doesn't have that. Wentz had a better cast of players around him,

btw. Wentz's left tackle was drafted into the NFL. He had some help. Allen doesn't even have that. Allen is the top qb in this draft.

Those who nitpicked Wentz lost out on a new terrific qb to their team.

[Vagitron]

7 hours ago, Furious Styles said:

When Ben is not in the game the Steeler offense is worse than terrible......... even WITH that line and weapons.  Bens presence makes a HUGE difference.

Tell the truth and shame the devil.

Of course it makes a difference he is one of the best in the league. However what offense in the nfl doesn’t suffer without their franchise qb? It’s kind of a moot point isn’t it? And that also wasn’t my point. My point was when Ben was a rookie he had a team around him, almost all the pieces were in place so he didn’t need to “carry the team” and damage his confidence if things went poorly.

[TexasAg1969]

23 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

completion percentage assumes that you have the same quality wr's to meet the limit, as well as offensive line protection,

a little running game to match, maybe a solid, very good TE...Allen doesn't have that. Wentz had a better cast of players around him,

btw. Wentz's left tackle was drafted into the NFL. He had some help. Allen doesn't even have that. Allen is the top qb in this draft.

Those who nitpicked Wentz lost out on a new terrific qb to their team.

Wrong! He had that all of last year and still only completed 56%. This year he does not have as many weapons so he dropped off just slightly. If you watched his games this year then you were not paying attention to commentators comparing what he has now to last year. He had it all.

If the Browns take this kid #1 overall we are screwed.

[calfoxwc]

why on earth would I listen to some silly commentators when I have a whole lot of

professional scouts and nfl people on my side? and his coach (who, again, also coached Wentz)...?

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-scouts-are-already-salivating-over-the-wyoming-qb-who-could-go-no-1-in-2018/

As it stands now, Allen could be far more coveted next April than North Carolina's Mitch Trubisky (second overall pick, 13 career starts) was this April. This is not hyperbole. This is gleaned from conversations with top NFL evaluators, some of whom very likely will need a passer a year a from now, and some that will not.

"I watched the draft, and I know that Josh did, too, because he was looking at the guys coming out," Bohl said. "And Josh is an intense competitor and he's got a great deal of confidence and his perspective is that he's going to be better than all of them [drafted in 2017], and there is a case in point to be made in his argument, and with his physical skill set, I would say that.

"But his production, he does have to improve on a few of those things, and he loves the University of Wyoming and his parents love the University of Wyoming, and that's why he came back. And it'll be a fun, fun ride this next year with him."

 

I started calling around to guys I trust a day after this year's draft was complete, and before I could even get the question out, as soon as I mentioned the name Josh Allen, they began gushing. Usually, I could get to "University of Wyoming qua--" and the voice on the other end of the phone would perk up:

"Totally legit. Absolutely could be the first pick," an AFC decision-maker not in need of a quarterback said.

"Now that's a purrty prospect right there. We love him," said another evaluator with an aging starting quarterback, mimicking how a cowboy might have said "pretty" while drinking a sarsaparilla back at the OK Saloon.

"He's got pretty much everything you could look for in a quarterback," said a personnel director I could very much see needing a new passer in 2018. "We need to see him in more games, but he's the real deal. That's what a first overall pick looks like. He's got the size and the arm. He probably has a quicker release than Wentz. He's every bit the prospect Wentz was, and probably better."

And, yeah, Wentz went No. 2 in 2016 -- with the Eagles executing multiple trades to move up to land him -- despite being injured several times at North Dakota State. Bohl, of course, understands the comparisons better than anyone, with he and his staff identifying Allen as a candidate to implement a pro-style offense with at Wyoming, taking the Cowboys from a spread, shotgun, quick-huddle, limited protection scheme upon his arrival after the 2013 season.

[calfoxwc]

I just think this kid is the one kid this year that I would draft. Period. From the same link above:

"For all of the touchdowns and big passes Allen completed in his breakout season, the defining play for Bohl, and for some NFL evaluators, came at a crucial point in what ended up as a crushing 27-24 loss to San Diego State in the Mountain West title game. The coaching staff had warned Allen about staying away from corner Damontae Kazee, the two-time Mountain West Defensive Player of the Year and Atlanta's fifth-round pick in this draft.

Never one to blanch at a challenge, Allen got baited a bit by Kazee, who squatted on a hitch route and was on the cusp of returning it for a pick-six. But Allen was sprinting to the sideline with the speedy but diminutive 5-8 corner in his sights.

"Josh runs all the way over and just lights him up, lights him up," Bohl recalled, "and the ball goes into the end zone and we recover it and it goes out to the 20. And Josh is on the sidelines, he's got blood coming out of his mouth and his eye is swollen and he's looking at me and he's pissed [at himself for throwing the pick] and he wants to get right back in there and fight. That's what I love."

Oh, hell yeah, he's my qb pick. Absolutely. If the Browns don't draft him, they are screwed.

[miktoxic]

TOLEDO dummies.

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

I just think this kid is the one kid this year that I would draft. Period. From the same link above:

"For all of the touchdowns and big passes Allen completed in his breakout season, the defining play for Bohl, and for some NFL evaluators, came at a crucial point in what ended up as a crushing 27-24 loss to San Diego State in the Mountain West title game. The coaching staff had warned Allen about staying away from corner Damontae Kazee, the two-time Mountain West Defensive Player of the Year and Atlanta's fifth-round pick in this draft.

Never one to blanch at a challenge, Allen got baited a bit by Kazee, who squatted on a hitch route and was on the cusp of returning it for a pick-six. But Allen was sprinting to the sideline with the speedy but diminutive 5-8 corner in his sights.

"Josh runs all the way over and just lights him up, lights him up," Bohl recalled, "and the ball goes into the end zone and we recover it and it goes out to the 20. And Josh is on the sidelines, he's got blood coming out of his mouth and his eye is swollen and he's looking at me and he's pissed [at himself for throwing the pick] and he wants to get right back in there and fight. That's what I love."

Oh, hell yeah, he's my qb pick. Absolutely. If the Browns don't draft him, they are screwed.

Get ready for a big plate of crow served cold if the Browns pick him. Bust before play one.

If he had not thrown the INT he would not have had to light him up. Rest my case.

[CaineDeSoulis]

We have zero need for another developmental QB cal. We have his clone on the roster as is

[Ghoolie]

I am tired of talking about the draft 16 weeks before the SB is over. The draft is not going to dramatically change the 2018 Browns. We have 8 games left. Considering you and I will never take one single snap in the NFL, that is one hell of a lot of precious time and football left to be looking past. Shmuck it, why don't they focus on going 4 - 4 here on out? There is plenty of time to build some identity and momentum.

[CaineDeSoulis]

Gotta fire hue jackson first Ghoolie, we'll never go anywhere with him at the helm

[hoorta]

17 hours ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

I am interested to see how the QBs shape up between now and the draft. Someone will jump to the top of the heap.

Couple years ago, no one had heard of Carson Wentz.  

7 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

You don't get that by being inaccurate, not a good ball placement guy.

However, admittedly, he has times when the ball sails, etc. Let's compare how tough it is to adapt to

NO qb is perfect. No player is perfect. Btw, I couldn't find a rothrapistbooger nfl profile, so....he did play at Miami of Ohio though,

and had a terrific cast of players around him, even when I was at Kent , Miami was a power player in the MAC.     

   I figure if rothlicksbooger had played for Wyoming, he wouldn't have done much more than Allen, who knows.

We'll see if he wows everybody at the combine and workouts - he won't have to be running most plays to avoid sacks, etc.But the intangibles are tough to find. Kizer - doesn't have em.

Now I agree with you about Kizer- but that's about it. 

Look I love the University of Wyoming. Probably second on my list to Ohio State. Been to & through Laramie at least 4 times, and have my Cowboy mug.  With all the hype, I really wanted to have a good look at Allen & hope he could be "the guy", and MHO? He's not it either. I totally agree with Ag, plain not accurate enough. 

If you want to give him a pass because of lousy weather against Colorado State- ahem. The light came on for me that I wanted the Browns to draft Rothlisberger came during a bad weather game at Miami. The game was played in a windstorm with gusts up to 50mph, and the continuous wind probably had to be 25, if not 30 mph+. Well, Ben completed a stupid percentage  of his passes in that gale (might have been around 70%). Knew then he was the real deal. Hysterical you want to nit-pick one of Ben's bad games. He's a career 64% completion sort of guy. 

 

[Mark O]

6 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Couple years ago, no one had heard of Carson Wentz.  

Now I agree with you about Kizer- but that's about it. 

Look I love the University of Wyoming. Probably second on my list to Ohio State. Been to & through Laramie at least 4 times, and have my Cowboy mug.  With all the hype, I really wanted to have a good look at Allen & hope he could be "the guy", and MHO? He's not it either. I totally agree with Ag, plain not accurate enough. 

If you want to give him a pass because of lousy weather against Colorado State- ahem. The light came on for me that I wanted the Browns to draft Rothlisberger came during a bad weather game at Miami. The game was played in a windstorm with gusts up to 50mph, and the continuous wind probably had to be 25, if not 30 mph+. Well, Ben completed a stupid percentage  of his passes in that gale (might have been around 70%). Knew then he was the real deal. Hysterical you want to nit-pick one of Ben's bad games. He's a career 64% completion sort of guy. 

 

Completion percentage against sub par defenses in the Mountain West is definitely something that should be a major red flag.  

[darren15]

If the 49rs lose today we wont have the worst record in football .......go Browns, we improve the week we dont play

[calfoxwc]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

Couple years ago, no one had heard of Carson Wentz.  

Now I agree with you about Kizer- but that's about it. 

Look I love the University of Wyoming. Probably second on my list to Ohio State. Been to & through Laramie at least 4 times, and have my Cowboy mug.  With all the hype, I really wanted to have a good look at Allen & hope he could be "the guy", and MHO? He's not it either. I totally agree with Ag, plain not accurate enough. 

If you want to give him a pass because of lousy weather against Colorado State- ahem. The light came on for me that I wanted the Browns to draft Rothlisberger came during a bad weather game at Miami. The game was played in a windstorm with gusts up to 50mph, and the continuous wind probably had to be 25, if not 30 mph+. Well, Ben completed a stupid percentage  of his passes in that gale (might have been around 70%). Knew then he was the real deal. Hysterical you want to nit-pick one of Ben's bad games. He's a career 64% completion sort of guy. 

 

Well, Mr. Hoorta, what we have here is a failure to communicate.

wronglistbooger had a very good team around him at Miami. Even qb's with a terrific cast of players around them

have bad games. As in, a qb without a terrific cast of players around him won't have the stats. I don't care about no

stinkin stats - to me, there is a lot more to it.

[hoorta]

18 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

Well, Mr. Hoorta, what we have here is a failure to communicate.

wronglistbooger had a very good team around him at Miami. Even qb's with a terrific cast of players around them

have bad games. As in, a qb without a terrific cast of players around him won't have the stats. I don't care about no

stinkin stats - to me, there is a lot more to it.

It doesn't excuse Allen from having receivers open, and throwing the ball 10' over their heads...  

[calfoxwc]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

It doesn't excuse Allen from having receivers open, and throwing the ball 10' over their heads...  

very true. But as I posted, scouts notice that, and attribute it to him having to avoid the rush into the pocket and extend plays.

I see that in the film so, I'm good with it. "Perfection" isn't one of my criteria, that's all, or I would have been a Goff fanatic.

But, I didn't want Goff at all. He had more stats, etc etc. Wentz had more "IT". We'll just see how it goes, eh?

[RoyceRolls]

On 11/4/2017 at 1:03 PM, Vagitron said:

You can’t just keep drafting and ruining qb’s, a qb needs a supporting cast and frankly drafting another one so high will in my opiniOn only set the team back. You draft Barkley and take pressure off whatever quarterback is under center and if that doesn’t work out then you draft a quarterback. I personally like kizer but he was put in with an uphill battle. I don’t think Crowell is bad but he’s not scaring anyone. Barkely is a multifaceted threat with good blitz pick up. You draft Barkley and don’t look back and watch kizer improve.

A good QB is ten times more important than a good RB.  The risk/reward of taking a RB at #1 overall (hasn’t happened since ‘95) doesn’t make any kind of sense to any FO Let alone one driven by analytics. 

This team is a qb away from competing. The trenches are solid on both sides, gordon Coleman njoku devalve and duke represent a good core of playmakers. The biggest problem is this team needs to grow up, but they’re getting there. This year and last year are the “growing pains” everyone was talking about when they tore everything down to the studs. These kids will learn how to win together as long as the QB question gets answered. Honestly, whatever it takes to lock down a FQB, even if the Browns spend both first rounders on QB. 

 

[jiggins7919]

22 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I imagine the same exact words were used with Johnny Manziel replacing Baker Mayfield a few years ago.

Ya know I thought about that. And I realize Mayfield has that alcohol related arrest. But if we do an extensive background check and it turns out to be an isolated incident, I'm good with going with Mayfield. Our organization is obviously extremely sensitive to these type of arrests, but we can't let that prevent us from looking at everyone. 

[wargograw]

1 hour ago, jiggins7919 said:

Ya know I thought about that. And I realize Mayfield has that alcohol related arrest. But if we do an extensive background check and it turns out to be an isolated incident, I'm good with going with Mayfield. Our organization is obviously extremely sensitive to these type of arrests, but we can't let that prevent us from looking at everyone. 

It may be isolated in the criminal sense. In the “is he an idiot?” sense, it’s one of a long list of incidents. 

[Hunter33109]

On ‎11‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 12:39 PM, calfoxwc said:

nope. the new qb for the Browns will be Josh Allen. Hogan and Kizer can back him up.

We passed on Wentz, big colossal mistake - Allen is the Wentz type - just draft him - he's the

real deal.

 

I saw Josh Allen twice this year and I thought he looked great.  I would certainly hope the Browns would consider him but I think they will pass on him for two reasons, 1 being their analytics do not see Josh as a first or 2nd round draft pick and 2 being he doesn't come from a big name school.  I believe the Steelers will scoop him up in the second round as a back up for Ben with the aim of having him replace Ben.  But in any case I hope you're right and the Browns come to their senses and get a real blue collar QB leader.   

[calfoxwc]

1 hour ago, Hunter33109 said:

I saw Josh Allen twice this year and I thought he looked great.  I would certainly hope the Browns would consider him but I think they will pass on him for two reasons, 1 being their analytics do not see Josh as a first or 2nd round draft pick and 2 being he doesn't come from a big name school.  I believe the Steelers will scoop him up in the second round as a back up for Ben with the aim of having him replace Ben.  But in any case I hope you're right and the Browns come to their senses and get a real blue collar QB leader.   

  I figure if the Haslams don't get a football guy in there to make the major decisions on how they go about drafting

the real football players in the draft - they will probably draft another bust.  If all sashi knows is numbers - there isn't any

way to gage love for the game in numbers. Intangibles are missing - don't draft em. can't coach intangibles - Browns keep

making that mistake over the years.

[TexasAg1969]

Another Allen supporter. Same message. He is not an NFL QB. He was missing wide open players this past Sat. with no pressure. Imagine the same with substantial pressure. And this is 3 games I've seen with him now (BSt. NM CSU). 10 of 20 against CSU is not an NFL QB. Take a look at the past two years (you can switch from 2017 to 2016 in this) and tell me that he is NFL material. He is not and the stats reflect exactly what I have seen in those 3 games this year. The better the team the worse he plays. 

http://www.espn.com/college-football/player/gamelog/_/id/3918298/year/2017/josh-allen