AJ McCarron

[Unsympathetic]

1 minute ago, stillmotion said:

Browns and Bengals both messed up

Yes, they did.. and they've both completed many trades.  Do you actually think there was something magical about this one? 

Or.... perhaps all the T-crossing and I-dotting of the "NFL Trade Process" simply at present requires time for each step that wasn't available.

Until they change the process there is a time after which no trade can complete......... which is before the "trade deadline".............. because that's the minimum time required for the paperwork to get done even if both parties are sitting at the fax machine / scanner and ready to do all the signing and emailing back.

[hoorta]

22 minutes ago, Zombo said:

I don't want him. At all. I think the story just points our how desperate we are, and perhaps how amateur we are.

Zombo

It's sad, Z- it really is. I understand being patient, but could we see maybe a shred of something that would give you confidence we could just maybe win a game this year? Year two of a rebuild should have us at better than 0-8 looking at 0-16.  

[stillmotion]

Just now, Unsympathetic said:

Yes, they did.. and they've both completed many trades.  Do you actually think there was something magical about this one? 

Or.... perhaps all the T-crossing and I-dotting of the "NFL Trade Process" simply at present requires time for each step that wasn't available.

Until they change the process there is a time after which no trade can complete......... which is before the "trade deadline".............. because that's the minimum time required for the paperwork to get done even if both parties are sitting at the fax machine / scanner and ready to do all the signing and emailing back.

If sashi really did leave early, and didn't care about the trade then he's obviously sending a message to hue. follow the process and don't try to win or get your own QB or else i'll burn you.

Sashi definitely isn't stupid, and he didn't want the trade, so if this Sheet is true either the coaches or FO will for sure get fired.

[stillmotion]

1 minute ago, hoorta said:

It's sad, Z- it really is. I understand being patient, but could we see maybe a shred of something that would give you confidence we could just maybe win a game this year?  

F.O. doesn't want to win this year. They want the #1 pick. It's obvious. Why else would we have no QB on the roster who won a game. Sure our line has improved, but they're waiting for the magic #1 pick next year, which i hope we hit on.

[stillmotion]

- From Reddit

Hue negotiated this deal and got Jimmy to back him. We've seen this reported in a couple of places. The front office was against the trade and messed up sending it to the league office. Or did they?

We've become a reality show.

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2017/11/1/16591610/trying-to-make-sense-of-the-browns-trade-deadline-disaster

[D Bone]

Hue should just go full on rogue.... Speak his mind at his press conferences and if a question leads to one or more of the Brain Trust Jackoffs in the FO needing to get thrown under the bus for one of their brilliant personnel decisions , phucking do it. 

God I hate these phukers. 

[Canton Dawg]

Albert Breer from MMQB was on the local sports radio show on the commute home today.

According to him, the Bengals and the Browns struck a deal early yesterday afternoon.

The Browns subsequently backed out of said deal, then came full circle and wanted to do the deal.

The clock ran out on the deal, and the rest is history.

[Dutch Oven]

There is absolutely no way this organization remains intact after this.

I don't know exactly what happened, but someone was grossly incompetent yesterday.

Someone thought A.J. McCarron was worth a 2nd and 3rd rounder, and someone messed up making the trade. (And "messed up" might have been the front office sabotaging a horrible deal on purpose.) IMO, the signs, at minimum, are SCREAMING that Hue is gone.

Here's something to ponder: Would the Browns have used their top pick next draft on a QB if they used a 2nd and 3rd rounder from the same draft on McCarron?

[Mark O]

18 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Here's something to ponder: Would the Browns have used their top pick next draft on a QB if they used a 2nd and 3rd rounder from the same draft on McCarron?

Have to assume he would've played the last 8 games.  Taking a QB next draft all depends on the performance in those 8 games.

[Dutch Oven]

1 minute ago, Mark O said:

Have to assume he would've played the last 8 games.  Taking a QB next draft all depends on the performance in those 8 games.

That's terrifying price to pay for an audition. It's also terrifying to think that he might have played "decent" and the Browns might have skipped over another top QB because of AJ McCarron.

[Mark O]

Just now, Dutch Oven said:

That's terrifying price to pay for an audition. It's also terrifying to think that he might have played "decent" and the Browns might have skipped over another top QB because of AJ McCarron.

I don't disagree....But that's how I would see it playing out.   You don't give up 2 picks for a guy without playing him the rest of the way.  And what if he goes  say 4-4 the rest of the way with 60+ completion percentage and say..10 TD's and 5 int's.    I don't think you draft another QB high in round 1 if that's the case.

[LondonBrown]

3 hours ago, hoorta said:

Sashi's made some good moves, also some very bad ones. Hue lost his QB guru status a long time ago London. Whoever the Browns choose as their QBOTF in 2018 (take that one to the bank) I DO NOT want Jackson involved in any way in the process, that's assuming he's still even the Browns coach at the time. Right now it's not looking good for Hueless the Clueless. RG III, Kessler, Kizer. 

I will buy the notion this was a desperation move by (whoever- really don't care anymore who came up with the idea) to try and win a game. That was a MHO foolish attempt at WAY overpaying for McCarron, if Garropolo was only worth a second. You can say we don't know about Jimmy because he's been backing up one of the all-time greats, but AJ can't beat out Andy? I think someone pointed out if McCarron couldn't do that- he's not a true franchise QB- but apparently Hue's deluded himself into thinking that somehow he is. Just like when he saw Griffin's workout and felt the earth move. Sheeze, excuse me while I barf. The Clown Show is getting truly sickening. 

Can’t argue with any of that. 

People can shout about passing on Wentz all they want but seem to forget Hue’s comments on RG3 

[Dutch Oven]

3 minutes ago, Mark O said:

I don't disagree....But that's how I would see it playing out.   You don't give up 2 picks for a guy without playing him the rest of the way.  And what if he goes  say 4-4 the rest of the way with 60+ completion percentage and say..10 TD's and 5 int's.    I don't think you draft another QB high in round 1 if that's the case.

But at the end of the day, you skip over another proverbial Wentz for a kid who can't beat out the ginger in Cincinnati.

 

[Mark O]

1 minute ago, Dutch Oven said:

But at the end of the day, you skip over another proverbial Wentz for a kid who can't beat out the ginger in Cincinnati.

 

I'm not saying it's the right choice, but its how I would see it playing out.  

[The Gipper]

4 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

Just for the record I don't think I remember anybody on this board demanding that AJ McCarron was the key piece of the puzzle up until we read the story that the trade for him didn't come through.

WSS

I am glad they did NOT make the deal.  I don't see this guy much better than what we have here.

I would have rather had Kaepernick for nothing....even with all the baggage that comes with him.

[gumby73]

2 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Here's something to ponder: Would the Browns have used their top pick next draft on a QB if they used a 2nd and 3rd rounder from the same draft on McCarron?

 

1 hour ago, Mark O said:

Have to assume he would've played the last 8 games.  Taking a QB next draft all depends on the performance in those 8 games.

It's a good question Dutch..AJ is to be a "Restricted FA" next season..Were the Browns. Were going to pay regardless.. 1. Your trading a Huejax kid to Hue in your own division & giving up the rights to match any offer next season on AJ..Think that's where the 3rd comes from? 2. Mark O right. 3. We know who Kess & Hogan are.Picture coming into focus on Kizer? .If a 1st Round QB projected talent surpasses any of them? Sure ya got to take another QB in Rd. 1 regardless of AJ imo   

[BaconHound]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

But at the end of the day, you skip over another proverbial Wentz for a kid who can't beat out the ginger in Cincinnati.

 

Or you pass on a serviceable QB for Brandon Weeden.  If it was easy there would be 32 QBs in the NFL who were drafted and kicking butt.

[Dutch Oven]

45 minutes ago, BaconHound said:

Or you pass on a serviceable QB for Brandon Weeden.  If it was easy there would be 32 QBs in the NFL who were drafted and kicking butt.

There is absolutely no hindsight needed to know that Weeden was an awful pick in the first round. There was no "luck of the draw" with Weeden. The guy was a 29 year old rookie who didn't use a playbook in his college offense.

I mean, seriously, what is the ceiling on McCarron?

[BaconHound]

9 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

There is absolutely no hindsight needed to know that Weeden was an awful pick in the first round. There was no "luck of the draw" with Weeden. The guy was a 29 year old rookie who didn't use a playbook in his college offense.

I mean, seriously, what is the ceiling on McCarron?

Ok Johnny Manziel, Brady Quinn, David Carr, Ryan Leaf, on and on.  I agree the best way to find "the guy" is the draft but it is 75 percent luck.  To act as though it's a no-brainer that next year the Browns will draft their Carson Went is laughable, plausible, but ultimately a long shot.  Each year between 2-4 QBs are taken in the first round and 25 percent end up being "the guy" and not always for a long time.

[hoorta]

22 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

There is absolutely no hindsight needed to know that Weeden was an awful pick in the first round. There was no "luck of the draw" with Weeden. The guy was a 29 year old rookie who didn't use a playbook in his college offense.

I mean, seriously, what is the ceiling on McCarron?

We don't know that. The SW Bungle Ohio take is a lot of their fans have soured on Dalton. (FWIW, saw an article saying the Bengals know exactly what they have in Dalton). He's a middle of the road QB that needs perfect surroundings to succeed. Hence the Drafting of WRs and RBs high every time- at the expense of the defense. I might add from my perspective, he folds faster than a a house of cards when the bright lights or playoffs are on the line. I'm not going to bother to look it up, but I'll bet his QBR in those situations is worse than what Kizer has shown to date in the regular season. 

That begs the question- why is Marvin Lewis so reluctant to play AJ, if Dalton continues to be mediocre? Of course- the Bengals aren't idiots (like someone on the Browns) who put a multiple draft pick value on McCarron. If he was that good, he'd be playing, not Andy. 

[Dutch Oven]

18 minutes ago, BaconHound said:

Ok Johnny Manziel, Brady Quinn, David Carr, Ryan Leaf, on and on.  I agree the best way to find "the guy" is the draft but it is 75 percent luck.  To act as though it's a no-brainer that next year the Browns will draft their Carson Went is laughable, plausible, but ultimately a long shot.  Each year between 2-4 QBs are taken in the first round and 25 percent end up being "the guy" and not always for a long time.

So the Browns should have been happy to end up with a "serviceable" QB like McCarron than to scout and draft a QB who could be an honest to god franchise QB?

This kind of sounds like the guys on here who say that Wentz or Watson wouldn't be as good on the Browns as they are on the Eagles and Texans, as a kind of excuse or reason for the Browns to not have drafted them.

 

[BaconHound]

3 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

So the Browns should have been happy to end up with a "serviceable" QB like McCarron than to scout and draft a QB who could be an honest to god franchise QB?

This kind of sounds like the guys on here who say that Wentz or Watson wouldn't be as good on the Browns as they are on the Eagles and Texans, as a kind of excuse or reason for the Browns to not have drafted them.

 

Not at all, hell I didn't want McCaroon.  It is an ideology.  There are 10 teams in the NFL right now who have a "franchise" QB and the other 22 are looking for one.  You don't simply keep throwing darts at the board each year trying to draft your franchise guy.  With each passing draft you draft the best talent you can with the best picks you can get and slot them where they need to be.  If you don't have a strong young talent at a position you try and bring in veteran depth.

If they draft a QB this year and stink for the next 3 many will say, "hey they tried".  Trying isn't good enough.  If you like Wentz or Watson you draft him, if you don't, then don't.  What you can't do is pass on talent to add picks thinking, "next year is the year of the QB".  Right now Baker Mayfield looks like the best QB in the country and you and I wouldn't trust him to lead a CFL team, well maybe CFL.  It is an inexact science and while I don't think you shy away from drafting a QB, you can't force it or manufacture it.  If you could 22 teams would have already done it.

[Mark O]

7 minutes ago, BaconHound said:

There are 10 teams in the NFL right now who have a "franchise" QB and the other 22 are looking for one. 

 

Who are the 10?   I'd think there's more than that but I"m curious to know who you think are the 10 teams that are set.

[hoorta]

3 hours ago, Mark O said:

I don't disagree....But that's how I would see it playing out.   You don't give up 2 picks for a guy without playing him the rest of the way.  And what if he goes  say 4-4 the rest of the way with 60+ completion percentage and say..10 TD's and 5 int's.    I don't think you draft another QB high in round 1 if that's the case.

Here's another thing I just realized Mark. The attempted McCarron move officially threw Kizer under the bus. Not like I've been preaching it from Day One that I didn't like Deshone at all.  Some of the brain trust on the Browns was just a little bit slower coming to the realization. 

It gets you to thinking Hue got outvoted by the "consensus" anal-itics guys a bunch of times, he got tired of Sashi and DePo's crap and went directly to the uber boss telling him- "I can't win with Kizer." What this means to me is either Hue or Sashi are gone, or Sashi at the very least is going to get demoted to contract only work.

[Tacosman]

not a fan of AJ and don't want him, but you know who else we 'wasted' a second and third on?  The hot garbage that is Kessler and Kizer....thats your 2nd and 3rd right there as well.

So the idea that this front office or hue would value total garbage as being worth a 2nd and 3rd sounds about right.  

And heck as much as I wouldnt want AJ he's better than kessler + kizer

[Ghoolie]

6 hours ago, D Bone said:

Hue should just go full on rogue.... Speak his mind at his press conferences and if a question leads to one or more of the Brain Trust Jackoffs in the FO needing to get thrown under the bus for one of their brilliant personnel decisions , phucking do it. 

God I hate these phukers. 

Speak his mind? Who wants to hear that schidt? Isn't it bad enough that we have to watch the dumb bastard on Sunday?

[SD_Tom]

I think this is real life Major League, and they want us relocated to Las Vegas or something.

[wargograw]

18 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

Here's the problem. It doesn't MATTER whose fault it was, it's just another example of how we screwed the donkey and we look absolutely ridiculous...again. 

I pretty much hate everything to do with our team right now. The thought of watching Kizer play more games makes me want to vomit, and what's worse is the impending feeling of doom due to the fact we're probably going to blow it all up again. I'm not saying it's what I want, but I feel it coming. 

Don't say you don't want to see it blown up as you make fun of everyone involved. What do you think makes Jimmy want to blow it up? Fan disgruntlement.

[stillmotion]

1 hour ago, wargograw said:

Don't say you don't want to see it blown up as you make fun of everyone involved. What do you think makes Jimmy want to blow it up? Fan disgruntlement.

I wouldn't blame the fans when Jimmy went over the front office to try to please Hue and they disobeyed him. My theory is Hue convinced Jimmy the process isn't working and a lawyer and baseball guy can't make draft picks.

[LondonBrown]

43 minutes ago, stillmotion said:

My theory is Hue convinced Jimmy the process isn't working and a lawyer and baseball guy can't make draft picks.

That’s my concern rather than theory, the quotes are out there from Jimmeh that the 2018 season was the one they were looking at back when they blew it up in 2016.

And here we are halfway through 2017 and everything suggests he wanted to throw away two draft picks over the front offices heads before we’ve even had the bye weekend.

IF it’s the case he’s already backing off the original plan and meddling once again in team affairs then the Browns have no chance while he is owner. Nothing good will ever happen here under Haslam.