So this is it??

[wargograw]

Yep. As predicted. He tried to come up with a third. He blew the gasket. Realized he’s a doofus then went back to the first two. Way to walk right into it. 

[Mark O]

1 minute ago, wargograw said:

Yep. As predicted. He tried to come up with a third. He blew the gasket. Realized he’s a doofus then went back to the first two. Way to walk right into it. 

My gaskets are just fine.  Why don't you point out all the great players we're supposed to be excited about that your precious front office has drafted for us in the last 2 years?   You want more examples, these guys drafted Corey Coleman, how's he working out as a first round pick?  Kessler, Kizer, Hogan???  But next year they'll figure out the QB who is good right?   Next years draft is when they'll start trying to actually win games, in the meantime, spend your money on tickets and supporting the team while we suck at historic levels.

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, flyingfooldoug said:

And for a lighter note. Carson Wentz, NFC player of the month. Deshone Watson, AFC player of the month 

Isaac Asimov couldn't make this stuff up.

More like a Stephen King thing.

[LondonBrown]

Njoku is 21 years old halfway through his first ever nfl season and he’s being written off already. I despair sometimes. 

[stillmotion]

2 minutes ago, LondonBrown said:

Njoku is 21 years old halfway through his first ever nfl season and he’s being written off already. I despair sometimes. 

He shouldn't be written off and he shouldn't be praised as a genius pick. He can't even be evaluated correctly this early.

[LondonBrown]

21 minutes ago, stillmotion said:

He can't even be evaluated correctly this early.

Absolutely right. And the same goes for th entire FO

[Mark O]

2 hours ago, LondonBrown said:

Absolutely right. And the same goes for th entire FO

The front office has had 2 drafts and has missed on high draft picks than it has hit on.  That's why I question giving them a 3rd draft.  They haven't proven that they are all that good at drafting to this point.  They seem to enjoy trading down more than they do actually picking players.  The injury today not withstanding, but when you have Deshaun Watson sitting there with the #12 pick in the draft and you're a team that has needed a QB for like 2 million years, you have to take that guy.  Trading down is ridiculous at that point.  

2 hours ago, LondonBrown said:

Njoku is 21 years old halfway through his first ever nfl season and he’s being written off already. I despair sometimes. 

I wasn't writing him off so much as saying that you can't say he's a good player at this point.  He's completely unproven and as a first round pick, 2 catches per game isn't all that impressive.

[The Gipper]

13 hours ago, Mark O said:

The front office has had 2 drafts and has missed on high draft picks than it has hit on.  That's why I question giving them a 3rd draft.  They haven't proven that they are all that good at drafting to this point.  They seem to enjoy trading down more than they do actually picking players.  The injury today not withstanding, but when you have Deshaun Watson sitting there with the #12 pick in the draft and you're a team that has needed a QB for like 2 million years, you have to take that guy.  Trading down is ridiculous at that point.  

As someone said, they enjoy playing Monopoly with these picks, players.  They just prefer dealing than choosing.

I wasn't writing him off so much as saying that you can't say he's a good player at this point.  He's completely unproven and as a first round pick, 2 catches per game isn't all that impressive.

 

[Kvoethe]

Same old rehashed comments over and over.  Booooooring

 

yeah we get it... we arent good.  Move on.... nothing to see here.

[The Gipper]

1 minute ago, Kvoethe said:

Same old rehashed comments over and over.  Booooooring

 

yeah we get it... we arent good.  Move on.... nothing to see here.

I was going to start a thread that would say:   We Suck, I'm Mad.....and state that like nearly all of the last 100 threads on this board were basically the same as what can be boiled down to 4 words..and that all the foofaraw that has gone on has added no more insight than that.

[Kvoethe]

http://www.physics-astronomy.com/2017/04/hubble-just-spotted-something-massive.html?m=1#.Wfy8EGgpCaP

 

thats for ghoolie

[thenew23]

I seem to forget everybody clamoring over Deshaun Watson in April, saying how he's our future. 

Hell if it was that obvious, we shouldve taken him #1.

Show me all those posts about Watson being a lock, franchise QB at 12... Ill wait...

[thenew23]

2 minutes ago, thenew23 said:

I seem to forget everybody clamoring over Deshaun Watson in April, saying how he's our future. 

Hell if it was that obvious, we shouldve taken him #1.

Show me all those posts about Watson being a lock, franchise QB at 12... Ill wait...

Oh wait... here comes all the "I don't get paid to do this" idiocy...

[thenew23]

On 11/1/2017 at 1:08 AM, The User from Cleveland said:

Haven't we been rebuilding for like 10 years. Lol

This is the ultimate fallacy.  The "old heads" around here keep thinking the mistakes of past regimes somehow should reflect on our current FO.  That is a major error in thinking, driven by emotions rather than logic.

This rebuild has been less than 2 years in the making.

Ill agree with everybody that losing sucks, and 1-23 is embarrassing, but we eventually have to give somebody a chance.  TBH I think Hue has a lot more to do with the record than Sashi and DePodesta. Look at what Bowles is doing with similar talent...  It might be time for a new HC and OC but not a major teardown.

[stillmotion]

1 minute ago, thenew23 said:

This is the ultimate fallacy.  The "old heads" around here keep thinking the mistakes of past regimes somehow should reflect on our current FO.  That is a major error in thinking, driven by emotions rather than logic.

This rebuild has been less than 2 years in the making.

Ill agree with everybody that losing sucks, and 1-23 is embarrassing, but we eventually have to give somebody a chance.  TBH I think Hue has a lot more to do with the record than Sashi and DePodesta. Look at what Bowles is doing with similar talent...  It might be time for a new HC and OC but not a major teardown.

I think maybe more things were promised to Hue, and he's sick of losing. He obviously wanted to be successful, and every week and the podium for two years he has to get up there and be a loser. The F.O. values their minds and decisions over Hue's, and maybe they will end up being right, but having the F.O. and Hue report independently to Jimmy is definitely causing friction.

[Kvoethe]

We need a good OC.  Nothing more... nothing less.  

He can come up with a gameplan that will cater to our talent and we can win some games

[jiggins7919]

Even the best OC in the world can't win with Kizer. Although I agree with you in that we need an OC, what's he supposed to do with a young QB who's scared to throw it across the middle, can't deliver the ball in the red zone, and can't read a defense? We needed Garoppolo, we didn't get him. Now we need Kirk Cousins and he doesn't want to play for us (total shocker). 

I can't wait to call our radio show and rip Nathan Zegura a new one after Josh and Corey are on the field and Kizer STILL stinks. Nathan continously says Kizer just needs weapons and I'm tired of listening to his excuses. With Josh and Corey, Kizer will have a legit #1 and #2, as well as backs that excel at catching the ball and tight ends who also have talent. Can't wait to hear his new excuses, and stay tuned for when I tear him apart on the radio show. 

You know, if Thomas wasn't hurt I'd say we could probably win a few games with Kessler in at QB, but I'm not sure we can play him now because he just goes down so easily. But regardless, we're going to see Cody sooner than later, and it's just a matter of time as Hue fights to keep his job. I think our defense will keep us in the game for several weeks, and the temptation to win will be too much for Hue to resist trying everyone he can at QB. We'll have 3-4 games in the 2nd half of the season where it'll be a one score game at half time, and every game will be the same story: our defense keeps it close, while Kizer doesn't throw touchdowns. Hue Jackson will go to Kessler, but maybe, just maybe....Cody can do JUST enough to win a few. But mark this down....if....IF we do win a game (or maybe more than one! *gasp*) the QB playing at the end of the game WON'T be Kizer. 

[ballpeen]

I tend to agree.  Flattop doesn't have what it takes.

 

[jiggins7919]

After we get our butts blown apart next week, it'll be full blown panic time. The chants to bring in Kaepernick will reach fever pitch, regardless of how fans feel about his politics. And remember, he wasn't protesting the ANTHEM, he's protesting disparate treatment from police to black Americans. Who can't get on board with that? Anyway, this is not a political post. All I'm saying is Kaepernick can help our team, and let's get him now so he can start working with Gordon and Coleman in 2 weeks. 

[Westside Steve]

12 hours ago, Kvoethe said:

We need a good OC.  Nothing more... nothing less.  

He can come up with a gameplan that will cater to our talent and we can win some games

Well we need some Playmakers too. We need a better and more experienced quarterback then we have. We need people to throw to that can catch a football that hits them in the hands. We need a better running back. Maybe if there was a passing threat the running backs we have would look better.

WSS

[jiggins7919]

Jerry Rice in his PRIME couldn't help Kizer. A QB still has to deliver the dang ball man. Go back and look at ALL of Kizer's red zone turnovers (if you have a strong stomach). Tell me how Jerry Rice makes it better. I know one interception was Britt's fault. Maybe 2 right? But the other ones weren't on the receivers. How many TIMES did we have open receivers in the end zone that Kizer missed? I counted 12 and stopped counting. 

[calfoxwc]

1 hour ago, jiggins7919 said:

After we get our butts blown apart next week, it'll be full blown panic time. The chants to bring in Kaepernick will reach fever pitch, regardless of how fans feel about his politics. And remember, he wasn't protesting the ANTHEM, he's protesting disparate treatment from police to black Americans. Who can't get on board with that? Anyway, this is not a political post. All I'm saying is Kaepernick can help our team, and let's get him now so he can start working with Gordon and Coleman in 2 weeks. 

  NO. Kaepernick would ruin the fanbase attendance that is taking a hit around the NFL as it is. NO NO NO. He's a waste of space.

[Unsympathetic]

14 hours ago, Kvoethe said:

We need a good OC.  Nothing more... nothing less.  

He can come up with a gameplan that will cater to our talent and we can win some games

This x1000.

 

Hue has talent to work with - top 5 OL, RB who can take advantage, WR's who can get open with correct plays.

But Hue's O scheme requires a top5 OL AND a top QB AND a pro bowl WR [green] to even look like it's working.  Of course, what's not mentioned is that you could have run nearly anything in Cincy those years and it would have probably achieved MORE than what Hue did.

D this year could keep us in games if he had even a halfway competent offense.... but Hue is extraordinarily stubborn.  Great! So find us an OC.

 

Fact of the matter is: No FO will ever be perfect. Ozzie Newsome down in Baltimore is viewed as nearly a genius.. but he hasn't drafted even a passably useful WR yet.  Not a single one.. even Perriman [their last first-round pick] is going to not be offered a contract renewal.  Their cap is a disaster, as is their entire offense.  Yes, their D is amazing -- but the majority of this forum would scream for Newsome's firing long ago, calling him a "good player but not an executive" etc etc. You people should listen to the AM call-in radio discussions here in Boston about the Pats.

It's all well and good to talk about "standards" --- but I have not seen a single standard described that includes the reality of the uncertainty of all decision-making.

Every front office uses analytics.. not some of them, not part of them, not half of them.  If the person assigning numerical values to players is an ex-football player.. That's a football decision.

 

The only "football decision" I have seen over the last 2 years surrounding the Browns FO..... was an attempted ridiculous overpayment for a wildly inept McCarron.  So your [Every person who says "Football Player Making Football Decisions"] model for a winning organization is one that has other teams' castoffs at every position, trading away all draft picks on bad acquisitions due to a complete lack of understanding of appropriate player value?

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

  NO. Kaepernick would ruin the fanbase attendance that is taking a hit around the NFL as it is. NO NO NO. He's a waste of space.

Only an idiot would allow their attitude toward Kaepernick to affect their fan affliliaiton for their team.

[Dutch Oven]

4 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Only an idiot would allow their attitude toward Kaepernick to affect their fan affliliaiton for their team.

There's an obvious joke to be made about the correlation of people who voted for Trump and idiots, but I've been told that you can't talk politics on the Browns forum.

[The Gipper]

23 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

There's an obvious joke to be made about the correlation of people who voted for Trump and idiots, but I've been told that you can't talk politics on the Browns forum.

It isn't even that.  I am only saying that if a Browns player did something I objected to....It would not put me off being a Browns fan.

And, I mean....what is so bad about what Kaepernick did in comparison to what a lot of other players have done?  Should I not be a Browns fan because some player commits domestic abuse?  Commits other  violence?  Is a drunkard or a druggie? We certainly know that Steeler fans are not put off on their loyalty to their team because they have a potential rapist in their midst.  Should I disavow my loyalty to my team because the owner's other business was subject to an FBI criminal investigation?  We know that Ravens fan are not put off of their loyalty even when one of their players is accused of being involved in a double homicide. 

If I don't get put off by all this crapola, why should a mild protest put me off? Should I be put off my loyalty because some player expresses homophobia (which likely 75% of them have done)...If I were an atheist (I'm not)....should I be put off my loyalty because some players express some religious point of view? You know, like crossing himself and pointing to heaven after he scores a TD? (I have no problem with such personal expressions of faith)  I guess we could go on and on and give all kinds of examples of where something some player does could find some people to find objectionable.  WTF ever they do is not going to put me off my feelings toward my sports team.   

[TopDawg31]

Why do people think Kap is a savior?  He was terrible during the back half of his tenure in SF and lost his starting job. Kizer just needs 2 legitimate WR's and the offense will be good. I think we win 3 of our last 5 once Josh and Corey return.

[TexasAg1969]

23 minutes ago, TopDawg31 said:

Why do people think Kap is a savior?  He was terrible during the back half of his tenure in SF and lost his starting job. Kizer just needs 2 legitimate WR's and the offense will be good. I think we win 3 of our last 5 once Josh and Corey return.

 

[BaconHound]

1 hour ago, TopDawg31 said:

Why do people think Kap is a savior?  He was terrible during the back half of his tenure in SF and lost his starting job. Kizer just needs 2 legitimate WR's and the offense will be good. I think we win 3 of our last 5 once Josh and Corey return.

His team wasn't very good but completing 60% of your passes for 72TDs and 30INTs is better than any QB the Browns have had since 1999.

I don't think he is the savior but clearly better than any schit kicker on the roster right now but Browns fans seem to care more about kneeling for the anthem than winning.

[jiggins7919]

15 hours ago, TopDawg31 said:

Why do people think Kap is a savior?  He was terrible during the back half of his tenure in SF and lost his starting job. Kizer just needs 2 legitimate WR's and the offense will be good. I think we win 3 of our last 5 once Josh and Corey return.

Savior is a bit much. But how about someone who can score a few points? Throw a few touchdowns? Please tell me the last time Kizer threw a touchdown pass. 

There's something else. Some (including Browns Daily Nathan Zegura) have said Kizer just needs weapons, and this excuse makes me INSANE. What those idiots never explain is how or why better weapons will help Kizer see the field. How would they change ALL the times he missed open people for touchdown passes? Oh yeah it won't help. Believe me, if Josh makes it to the field, there's going to be times when he's open and Kizer either misses him or flat out doesn't see him. It's because Kizer isn't GOOD. Gordon can't throw the ball to himself. I'd LOVE to see Gordon play for the Pats, Cowboys, or the Falcons. Someone who can actually get him the ball.