The Gipper Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 15 hours ago, Tour2ma said: So very good QBs are not traded? Shocking... Except...they are. Elway, Favre, Eli, Brees...etc. (that is perhaps even more shocking) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 2 hours ago, flyingfooldoug said: Ya, hurt with a very potential career ending labrum tear. That, plus a rotator cuff tear ended Tim Couch's career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 Just now, The Gipper said: That, plus a rotator cuff tear ended Tim Couch's career. I tore mine up in 1990. Labrum, rotor and cartlige. Had a good surgeon and pushed the rehab therapy. I did good but anything overhead or a throwing like motion always evokes that knife point of pain in my shoulder joint. Any Dr will tell you too, you never come back 100% from an injury like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 NO FA QB has gone to successive Super Bowls in 51 years. So what? They have come close. Kurt Warner went in 1999 and again in 2001. A number of QBs that were traded went to consecutive SBs....including Tarkenton, Theisman, Favre, Elway. And remember....Free Agency has only been available to NFL players for about half the time the SB has been played. So that limits the field there. Again....the simple point I have made through all this is: Sure, it is better to draft and develop your own Franchise QB. But it may not be the only way it can be done. History has shown this. (and yet, somehow you wish to argue with that undeniable fact). And the further point is that the Browns should not preclude any avenue in obtaining a decent QB. God knows they cannot afford to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 3 hours ago, boo fagley said: Farve was not highlighted. 13 QBs. You are still wrong. E Manning refused to play for SD and Elway refused to play for Indy. To include them in rebuttal is weak. Should the Patriots get credit for Plunkett? Of course not, there was never ever a guarantee that he would even make to a Super Bowl. . This is why people think that people from Massachussets can be stupid....even with all the educational institutions that are there. Eli Manning was traded. John Elway was traded. You cannot change history. Are you going to claim the South won the Civil War? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 3 hours ago, boo fagley said: I gave you Unitas and Warner so quit complaining. Elway and E Manning demanded trades that were began on or before draft day. You didn't "give" me anything. I simply stated plain, undeniable facts. And...oh yes...note YOUR highlighted word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 1 hour ago, boo fagley said: Plunkett played for NE. Farve played for Atlanta. E Manning and Elway were traded before they boarded the plane to SD or Baltimore. Its cut and dry, but easy to see why someone from Ohio cant connect the dots. Your dots are the ones scrambled. Yes. all of the above is true. Manning and Elway were traded before they ever played for those teams....but they WERE traded. What is it about the word "Trade" that you don't understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 1 hour ago, boo fagley said: You have 13 traded QBs instead of 12 QBs that have won Super Bowls. 13 vs 38. 25.4% vs 74.5% Bravo. Are you talking winners of the SB...or losers? As for Super Bowl losing QBs, all of the following appeared in the Super Bowl with a team other than the one that drafted them: Len Dawson Daryl Lamonica Earl Morrall Joe Kapp Billy Kilmer Ron Jaworski Joe Theismann John Elway Stan Humphries Brett Favre Chris Chandler Kerry Collins Rich Gannon Jake Delhomme Matt Hasselback Kurt Warner And a couple of special cases: Fran Tarkenton was drafted by the Vikings....then traded to the Giants....but then later traded back to the Vikings with whom he made 3 SB starts. Jim Kelly drafted by the Bills....but then went to play for a few years with the USFL Houston Gamblers...but then agreed to sign with the Bills when the USFL went under. So, both Tarkenton and Kelly actually played for other teams before going to the SB with the team that drafted them. So...fully 16 of these did not go to the SB with the team that drafted them....plus another two went back to their draft team via circuitous routes. I also italicized those SB losers who also won a Super Bowl ( half including Morrall in this...as he was instrumental in Dolphins 1972 Super Bowl season) Bottom line: fully one third of all Super Bowl QBs.....winners or losers, went there not with the team that drafted them. Simple historical fact. Not sure why that is difficult to comprehend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 5 minutes ago, boo fagley said: The whole point is which is better, draft a QB or pick up a FA. The whole point is that you have more chances drafting a QB, yes, but there have been FAs who have won too. Thanks to your research, it could be said that the odds are that you double the chances drafting (2/3 won SBs by draftees, 1/3 by FAs) And if the Chargers and the Colts decided to draft a QB that ended up winning Superbowls, but happened that both QBs didn't want to play for them, I wouldn't forget that they actually made the right move by DRAFTING a "SB level quaterback", if that term exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 Has a SB-winning QB ever been traded away after his SB win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 8 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: Has a SB-winning QB ever been traded away after his SB win? Joe Namath to the LA Rams? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 25 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: Has a SB-winning QB ever been traded away after his SB win? Peyton Manning to Denver. Unless you mean 'the very next season after his SB win'. EDIT: Kurt Warner too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 Peyton was not traded... he was released. Ditto for Warner... released by the Rams then signed by NYG... released by NYG (in favor of Eli) then signed by AZ. 1 hour ago, Westside Steve said: Joe Namath to the LA Rams? Thought maybe, but per wiki... " In the twilight of his career, Namath was waived by the Jets to facilitate a move to the Los Angeles Rams when a trade could not be worked out. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 4 hours ago, boo fagley said: Why give credit to the team that got rid of them? Do you think that San Diego was smart to keep Rivers and get rid of Manning and Brees? The whole point is which is better, draft a QB or pick up a FA. How can Elway and Manning have been FA when they never had a contract with SD or Baltimore? Who is talking about giving any credit to the team that got rid of them? I am giving credit to the teams that made the trade for the. Again...I am only pointing the simple fact that they were traded for and not drafted. But your second sentence is irrelevent. You ask: which is better, drafting a QB or picking up a FA...and my answer is: It don't matter. You get a good QB however you can get him. My point is to not overlook either option: draft/trade/FA And whoever said that Elway and Eli Manning were FAs? They were traded Not sure why it is so hard for you to keep these simple facts straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 4 hours ago, Nero said: The whole point is that you have more chances drafting a QB, yes, but there have been FAs who have won too. Thanks to your research, it could be said that the odds are that you double the chances drafting (2/3 won SBs by draftees, 1/3 by FAs....or by QBs traded for just to keep the record accurate. And if the Chargers and the Colts decided to draft a QB that ended up winning Superbowls, but happened that both QBs didn't want to play for them, I wouldn't forget that they actually made the right move by DRAFTING a "SB level quaterback", if that term exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 3 hours ago, boo fagley said: Thank you Nero. Great point that Colts and Chargers drafted Super Bowl winners. Elway and Manning were each drafted by 2 teams. No Sheet Sherlock....and then they were traded. The Chargers actually traded away two Super Bowl winning QBs this century: Eli and Brees. And they have yet to win a title since 1963. So that sucks for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 24 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: Peyton was not traded... he was released. Ditto for Warner... released by the Rams then signed by NYG... released by NYG (in favor of Eli) then signed by AZ. Thought maybe, but per wiki... " In the twilight of his career, Namath was waived by the Jets to facilitate a move to the Los Angeles Rams when a trade could not be worked out. " True that. I only thought that you were looking for winners with different teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 2 hours ago, Tour2ma said: Has a SB-winning QB ever been traded away after his SB win? Several have answered your question....but I am not sure those were trades. Namath went to the Rams. Unitas to the Chargers. These were pre free agency....would have to check how they got moved. (Edit: I see the answer on Namath....also this from wiki: Unitas was traded to the San Diego Chargers in 1973 after posting a 5-9 record in 1972 with Baltimore, but he was far past his prime Montana to the Chiefs Rypien came to the Browns Dilfer came to the Browns Favre to the Jets Warner to the Giants Brad Johnson to ?? Peyton to Denver Some of these were moves after Free Agency started. But, I see that Montana was indeed traded: http://www.nytimes.com/1993/04/21/sports/pro-football-chiefs-and-49ers-come-to-terms-on-montana-trade-at-last.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 1 minute ago, Nero said: True that. I only thought that you were looking for winners with different teams. Got ya... No, just trades. I could not think of any. Releases are different... tend to say "we think (insert name here) is done". Not always true, as especially Warner showed, but also dictated by next guy waiting, e.g., Luck, Mark Bulger for Rams and Richard Todd for Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, The Gipper said: But, I see that Montana was indeed traded: There's one... and SF had Young waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 8 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: Got ya... No, just trades. I could not think of any. Releases are different... tend to say "we think (insert name here) is done". Not always true, as especially Warner showed, but also dictated by next guy waiting, e.g., Luck, Mark Bulger for Rams and Richard Todd for Jets. Well, learning all the different scenarios that occur in the NFL (free agents, unrestricted free agents, trades...) is one thing that I still don't dominate. In comparation, soccer is really simple. It's easy for me to make mistakes on that area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 14 hours ago, boo fagley said: Lose, lose, lose. The Chiefs have followed your FA QB recipe for success and just won their 1st playoff game in 23 years. Good luck with that. You aren't comprehending the question....the question has a QB who has won a SB ever been traded. As for lose, lose lose, Favre won, Johnson won, Warner won, Dilfer won. Unitas won. Peyton won They did not win with the team that drafted them...but in their cases they also got traded/released after having won. (but only Peyton won after that) As for the Chiefs, They also appeared in their two Super Bowls..winning one... with a QB they didn't draft. (Dawson...hell the Browns had him and let him go) Drafting is a way to go. But not the only way. Obviously drafting QBs has not brought success to the Browns lately. (but then...neither has any other method) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 21 hours ago, Nero said: Well, learning all the different scenarios that occur in the NFL (free agents, unrestricted free agents, trades...) is one thing that I still don't dominate. In comparation, soccer is really simple. It's easy for me to make mistakes on that area. Any more soccer references and you will get a bicycle kick right up your arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 23 hours ago, Nero said: In comparation, soccer is really simple. It's easy for me to make mistakes on that area. a/k/a, sold to the highest bidder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 I mean there are only signings and transfers. In the trades the football player signs a new contract with his new team, whereas the new team pays something to the old club which has the player's rights (sometimes an exchange of players enters in the equation). The american football trades where the player keeps his contract came to a surprise to me. The transfer is used usually for young players which don't have a spot in the roster (28 men roster), but the team wants to keep under contract. They transfer them to a team (hopefully in a competitive league, so the player develops) while they pay they keep paying their salary and maintain their rights over him. Usually these transfers have a clause which doesn't allow the player to play against the team which still posseses his rights. There isn't a draft, nor salary cap and usually players who hit free agency are castoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 3 hours ago, The Gipper said: Any more soccer references and you will get a bicycle kick right up your arse. Don't dis the sport pal. Just watched the Crew lose to Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Nero said: I mean there are only signings and transfers. In the trades the football player signs a new contract with his new team, whereas the new team pays something to the old club which has the player's rights (sometimes an exchange of players enters in the equation). The american football trades where the player keeps his contract came to a surprise to me. The transfer is used usually for young players which don't have a spot in the roster (28 men roster), but the team wants to keep under contract. They transfer them to a team (hopefully in a competitive league, so the player develops) while they pay they keep paying their salary and maintain their rights over him. Usually these transfers have a clause which doesn't allow the player to play against the team which still posseses his rights. There isn't a draft, nor salary cap and usually players who hit free agency are castoffs. Well....you asked for it: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, The Gipper said: Well....you asked for it: Prague! Great city. A must visit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, Nero said: Prague! Great city. A must visit. The best place to get a foot in your arse is Wisconsin. And you are getting ready to take a trip to Green Bay: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 hour ago, hoorta said: Don't dis the sport pal. Just watched the Crew lose to Toronto. You mean the Austin Crew? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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