Should we draft a quarterback 1st overall?

[Ghoolie#1fan]

12 hours ago, mjp28 said:

Kosar was about the same age -BUT- with way more experience in college, surrounded by a better NFL team, maybe better everything including drive and ability. 

To totally judge Kizer now is difficult to do the jury is still way out on that one, potential maybe, I think so......with this band of gypsies who knows if we'll ever really know, if he survives this season.  Name me one other NFL quarterback past or present in his exact situation right off hand, how'd they do?

Mathew Stafford was drafted #1 overall by an 0-16 team. He went 2-8 he had 2200 yards 13tds vs Kizer 1500 yards and 5 TDs. 

[The Gipper]

18 hours ago, stillmotion said:

Taking any QB out of this upcoming draft #1 scares the hell out of me. There's so many red flags for a lot of them. Rosen, Allen, D'Arnold, even Mayfield scares me at freaking #1. Lamar Jackson I think is the safest and most athletic out of this draft class. He might be the only QB i'd take at #1. 

RudolphRudolph

[stillmotion]

2 hours ago, The Gipper said:

RudolphRudolph

haven't studied him enough yet to formulate an opinion

[The Gipper]

On 11/26/2017 at 10:43 AM, stillmotion said:

haven't studied him enough yet to formulate an opinion

CBS Sports and maybe a few others have Rudolph ranked as the number one overall prospect. Not just the #1 QB,  number one overall at any position.

[Dutch Oven]

9 minutes ago, stillmotion said:

haven't studied him enough yet to formulate an opinion

The big knocks on him it seems is he's a Big 12 QB with a mediocre arm.

[Tour2ma]

Could be why DraftScout has a 2nd round grade on him...

[tiamat63]

On 11/24/2017 at 11:27 AM, jiggins7919 said:

Mistakes happen but we make them over and over. The Peppers pick is turning out to be just terrible. Here's a first round pick that literally had zero impact stats. He's basically done nothing. 

Funny, aside from a couple nice returns and some prime positioning - that was essentially what he did in college as well.

If only there had been people with the foresight to see these things...  

22 hours ago, hoorta said:

And if he wants to pull an Eli Manning- we extort the living daylights out of whoever wants him and take Mayfield. 

 

Brilliant.  Let's get a ton of draft capital then waste it again. 

 

22 hours ago, stillmotion said:

Lamar Jackson I think is the safest and most athletic out of this draft class. He might be the only QB i'd take at #1. 

Out of the previous QB's you listed this is literally the most butt backwards.   Again, when you cut out the athletic ability - do you see an NFL QB?   Because opposing defensive minds WILL take away his legs.   The only time that doesn't happen is if you're Vick and run a 4.3 coupled with incredibly lateral agility.     Jackson isn't that compact, I'm afraid.

 

Actually strike that. Pick freaking Barkley #1 and then pick a QB with our second first round pick. Mayfield should drop because of the crotch incident. 

 

...then you found a way to come up with a worse idea after suggesting Jackson @ #1.

 

Tim Tebow most likely thinks the world is 6000 years old and is a 30 year old virgin, so....

In all seriousness, it is going to be very entertaining to see draft scouts debate Mayfield. He's going to be polarizing.

Not really.  You'll have a handful of people that will recycle the same trash over and over about QB's like him.   A few will see through the nonsense.   We went through this process 4 years ago.  

 

RudolphRudolph

Might as well just re-sign Weeden.  

 

 

 

 

[Westside Steve]

4 hours ago, The Gipper said:

RudolphRudolph

Well at least for the Christmas time night games he'd have an advantage.

WSS

[Tour2ma]

7 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Well at least for the Christmas time night games he'd have an advantage.

 

[BaconHound]

No

[flyingfooldoug]

We should trade our shot for a franchise QB for 9 so so players...or as Stosh calls them...magic beans.

[The Gipper]

On 11/26/2017 at 10:53 AM, Dutch Oven said:

The big knocks on him it seems is he's a Big 12 QB with a mediocre arm.

Are you talking Rudolph or Mayfield? From the limited amount that I have seen, Rudolph does not appear to have mediocre a mediocre arm.   But, being from the Big 12...is a knock on anybody.  Both Mayfield and Rudolph.

[The Gipper]

23 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Could be why DraftScout has a 2nd round grade on him...

I thought you said  that Draft Scout is used by CBS Sports.  Yet CBS sports has him listed as the #1 overall prospect.

So...explain that incongruity.

[The Gipper]

22 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

.

 

Might as well just re-sign Weeden.  

So? You think that with Rudolph we get Weeden 2.0.

And I think with Mayfield we get Manziel 2.0

Maybe we are both right or both wrong.

I guess that is the risk of going for a Big 12 QB.

So....what is the default position?  Go for Rosen?

 

 

 

 

 

[Browns1216]

if this FO is retained they will definitely grab a QB in the first round to save their jobs.   Who is the best fit for the Browns?  don't know, haven't had time to watch much college football this year.  My bet is next year's QB room will be Kizer, McCarron and a rookie, with Kizer starting and the rookie learning for a year or two.   

Personally, I think the Browns should stick with Kizer and use the high draft picks on some receivers who can catch.  Kizer has the most potential right now and has shown drastic improvement as the season goes on, McCarron is a good backup but I don't think he can carry a franchise. Kessler and Hogan have both been mediocre this year, I'm surprised how far Kessler has regressed and wouldn't be surprised to see him let go after this season.  Hogan just gets hurt too easily, a dealbreaker for a Browns QB who will be under a ton of pressure since our tight ends have trouble blocking.

[Tour2ma]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

I thought you said  that Draft Scout is used by CBS Sports.  Yet CBS sports has him listed as the #1 overall prospect.

So...explain that incongruity.

I did... last week. You even commented on my explanation.

[The Gipper]

6 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

I did... last week. You even commented on my explanation.

So....what changed in a week?

[Tour2ma]

Nothing...

[tiamat63]

2 hours ago, The Gipper said:

 

Rudolph is big with a solid arm but little command, touch and rather slow.    He just so happens to play at the same school in the same system.    

Mayfield may not be Manziel off the field, he may be just a touch better than him on.    The issue with both of them is what makes good QB's great - consistency.  It isn't there.

There is also no 'default' position.    As of the moment I type this the two QB's I like most are Rosen and Benkert.  

 

Also to address the thread title.    No, the Browns should not draft 'A' QB 1st overall.  They should draft 'THE' QB 1st overall.       If you have to sell yourself on someone being 'the guy', you might want to rethink your stance.  

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Nothing...

But, in one week, he went from #1 QB, #1 overall....to #2 QB, #12 overall prospect on the CBS board:

RK	PLAYER	POS	POS RK	SCHOOL	CLASS	HT	WT
8	Lamar Jackson	QB	5	Louisville	Jr	6-3	200
12	Mason Rudolph	QB	2	Oklahoma State	Sr	6-5	230
21	Sam Darnold	QB	1	Southern California	Soph	6-4	225
26	Josh Rosen	QB	3	UCLA	Jr	6-4	220
49	Ryan Finley	QB	0	NC State	Jr	6-4	205
68	Baker Mayfield	QB	8	Oklahoma	Sr	6-1	218

 

But, I sure don't get the LamarJackson ascendance. 

[tiamat63]

8 hours ago, The Gipper said:

But, in one week, he went from #1 QB, #1 overall....to #2 QB, #12 overall prospect on the CBS board:

RK	PLAYER	POS	POS RK	SCHOOL	CLASS	HT	WT
8	Lamar Jackson	QB	5	Louisville	Jr	6-3	200
12	Mason Rudolph	QB	2	Oklahoma State	Sr	6-5	230
21	Sam Darnold	QB	1	Southern California	Soph	6-4	225
26	Josh Rosen	QB	3	UCLA	Jr	6-4	220
49	Ryan Finley	QB	0	NC State	Jr	6-4	205
68	Baker Mayfield	QB	8	Oklahoma	Sr	6-1	218

 

But, I sure don't get the LamarJackson ascendance. 

"ATHLETIC, BRUH"

[stillmotion]

9 hours ago, The Gipper said:

But, in one week, he went from #1 QB, #1 overall....to #2 QB, #12 overall prospect on the CBS board:

RK	PLAYER	POS	POS RK	SCHOOL	CLASS	HT	WT
8	Lamar Jackson	QB	5	Louisville	Jr	6-3	200
12	Mason Rudolph	QB	2	Oklahoma State	Sr	6-5	230
21	Sam Darnold	QB	1	Southern California	Soph	6-4	225
26	Josh Rosen	QB	3	UCLA	Jr	6-4	220
49	Ryan Finley	QB	0	NC State	Jr	6-4	205
68	Baker Mayfield	QB	8	Oklahoma	Sr	6-1	218

 

But, I sure don't get the LamarJackson ascendance. 

The crotch grab is making Baker a sleeper now.

[jiggins7919]

I don't think it deserves its own thread, but I just saw an article with the headline of, "Browns would pick first and seventh as of today."  As I'm sure most of us know, Houston managed to lose a close game to the Ravens last night.  Savage did a nice job for most of the game trying to get the ball to Deandre Hopkins, who is quickly becoming one of the most unstoppable forces in the league (if he's not there already).  He's literally impossible to cover 1 on 1, and he catches darn near everything.  Despite this, Savage managed to cough the ball up a few times and the Ravens hung on.  Each and every loss the Texans incur drastically improves our draft pick in both the first and second rounds.  A quick glance at the Texans' remaining opponents reveals they play the Titans next, and then the 49's.  I'm guessing they win one of their next five games, or two at the most.  Bottom line, I think we'll be picking first and probably around 7 or 8 in the first round...very nice indeed.  Ideally the Texans would lose out, but I don't see that happening.  My absolute DREAM draft would be picking Rosen first, and then getting Derwin James with our next pick.  Some will say that Peppers is too close to James, and they're probably right, but Derwin is an impact player and we NEED those, right?  I don't see a WR worthy of a top 10 pick, do you guys?  Anyways, the Texans lost last night, and that's a small bit of silver-lining for us.

Note:  At one time I really wanted Saquon Barkely, but I've soured on him somewhat.  I still think he's a great player, but I don't think he's in the same caliber of "bell cow" as a Todd Gurley or Leonard Fournette.  Some people believe Alabama's WR Ridley is worthy of a top ten pick, but I'm not so sure.  I'm not as fond of the smaller type WR's (ahem, Coleman), but if Ridley is adept at the slot, or if Coleman can be pushed there...I could see it working.  More realistic is Alabama's top cornerback, Minkah Fitzpatrick.  I believe he can play both corner AND safety, and THAT'S something I can get behind.  (even I understand that having Derwin James and Peppers in the same secondary doesn't really work...just pisses me off that we drafted Peppers because I'd bet the farm Derwin James is actually going to make an impact)

[TexasAg1969]

That 53 yd. FG by Tucker won me the FF pool this week by 1 point over the guy who had Houston's D so it was a double win.

Keep on losing Texans!

There are several very good safeties this year. Get a WR with that Houston slot. Then trade up for a safety. Reverse the f'n process.

[Nero]

45 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

I don't think it deserves its own thread, but I just saw an article with the headline of, "Browns would pick first and seventh as of today." 

Well, maybe the thread named "Two picks in the Top Ten". 

What are your thoughts on LSU RB Derrius Guice? In some mock drafts appeared landing in the Browns, though I imagine things will change a lot until April.

 

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, Nero said:

Well, maybe the thread named "Two picks in the Top Ten". 

What are your thoughts on LSU RB Derrius Guice? In some mock drafts appeared landing in the Browns, though I imagine things will change a lot until April.

 

Better than anyone on the team.

[PKU]

New to the forum but my two cents...

the QB room has been awful and I would rather have too many options than go through another year like this year’s QB crop. That being said...

1. Need a vet - Whether they are enticed as a potential starter (see Matt Flynn, e.g McCarron, Tyrod) or bring in an old dog (McCown, Fitz) - we need an experienced QB in the room to mentor not only the QBs but also provide game day leadership. Our HC should NOT be providing that role, especially on game day.

2. Take a QB and high. I personally like Mayfield as I think he is accurate, throws receivers open, and goes through reads. I’m not worried about his size as he plays behind a 6’5” OL and has the fewest number of tipped balls of the top prospects (but I digress). take a QB high and sit him and develop him.

3. Keep Kizer, give him an off-season with the club and his WRs, let him grow.

 

Make these three battle it out in camp, vet or Kizer with the initial reps. If the rookie outshines both - that’s a win. We can’t ignore the QB room again

[jiggins7919]

2 hours ago, Nero said:

Well, maybe the thread named "Two picks in the Top Ten". 

What are your thoughts on LSU RB Derrius Guice? In some mock drafts appeared landing in the Browns, though I imagine things will change a lot until April.

 

 

To be honest, I don't know THAT much about him.  Highlight reels are obviously misleading, but I can tell you there's a lot to like about the kid.  He appears to have stellar vision and a "slippery" type of running style.  Easily executes smooth "jump-cuts" and accelerates quickly.  Not afraid of contact, and seems adept at running inside or out.  Strong, sturdy frame with a near ideal build (5'11, 212 pounds).  I've read some people compare him to a Frank Gore type of runner, but I think Guice has a bit more elusiveness.  I'm not sure where he's slated to go in the draft, and obviously that will drastically change in the next 6 months, but the guy looks to be everything I would hope for.  I'd love him on our team.  Any chance he slides to second round?  LOL.  Also, I don't think he has a knack for fumbling either.  As far as what he needs to work on...I'd say the usual "college stuff".  Pass protection, pass catching, etc.  I think he only has about 15 receptions this year for 100 yards or so.  That could just be a function of LSU's offense, but I personally believe pass catching is the easiest aspect of RB to work on.  Rookie RB's are notoriously poor at pass protection, and this is another aspect that is easily coached if the player has a nose for contact and the will to improve.  Typically NFL teams won't play their RB's until they show the ability to protect the prized QB's.  

[Tour2ma]

5 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

... and then getting Derwin James with our next pick.

Again, have to ask... who has seen him lately? Has he fully comeback from his injury?

[Tour2ma]

2 hours ago, PKU said:

New to the forum but my two cents...

the QB room has been awful and I would rather have too many options than go through another year like this year’s QB crop. That being said...

1. Need a vet - Whether they are enticed as a potential starter (see Matt Flynn, e.g McCarron, Tyrod) or bring in an old dog (McCown, Fitz) - we need an experienced QB in the room to mentor not only the QBs but also provide game day leadership. Our HC should NOT be providing that role, especially on game day.

2. Take a QB and high. I personally like Mayfield as I think he is accurate, throws receivers open, and goes through reads. I’m not worried about his size as he plays behind a 6’5” OL and has the fewest number of tipped balls of the top prospects (but I digress). take a QB high and sit him and develop him.

3. Keep Kizer, give him an off-season with the club and his WRs, let him grow.

 

Make these three battle it out in camp, vet or Kizer with the initial reps. If the rookie outshines both - that’s a win. We can’t ignore the QB room again

Well, first, the minimum for noobs is two-bits...

Second, welcome... similar thoughts here on the QB room, although the names change. I do disagree that we have "ignored" the QB room. I just see us not being convinced of the prospects with which we have been presented where they have been presented, e.g., moving up for Goff, turning down to firsts for Wentz, Trubs at #1 or moving up to get him after taking Myles. Adding Kessler and Kizer to the room the past two drafts weren't "nothing" moves.

Vets: I'd pass on the Tyrods and McCarrons of the league, QBs who definitely see themselves as starters, in favor of solid career backups. Looking thru the 2018 FAs as of now the candidates that jump out at me include Matt Moore (although I've a feeling the Fins will work to resign him), HOU's TJ Yates and maybe NOLA's Chase Daniels. I'd have zero issues with bringing back Josh McCown, but given the year he has had I can see him re-upping to start for the Jets one more year of play plus mentoring a draft pick there.

Draft: I'm a Rosen guy... through and through, but am open to a 2-QB draft with Benkert as the second choice in the first half of Day 2 the way it looks now. That would put the kibosh on signing a vet (assuming Kizer is the 3rd QB in the room), but with the right QB Coach and/or a full time OC, that's not a huge hole.