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Should we draft a quarterback 1st overall?


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12 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

So you want to disregard stats when discussing Allen's faults? Alright then.

Let's discuss his horrible mechanics and the massive jump from the poor competition he mostly faced to the NFL then.

And trust me cal, a lot of us really know why you don't like Rosen.

Why because ha is Jewish 

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17 minutes ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

Cousins will end up with a team that is just lacking a QB to make a decent run (i.e. Jacksonville).

 

Ultimately I agree with you, but I can't shake the feeling that our team has SOMETHING big planned.  Maybe it's something like trading/signing McCarron, or perhaps we're trying for a bigger name like Cousins.  The guy I keep coming back to is Alex Smith.  He's obviously no spring chicken at 33 years old, but he plays smart and doesn't take TOO many hits.  He completes a very high percentage of passes and doesn't turn the ball over (19 tds, 4 picks, 69% completion).  Also, the Chiefs are in a huge rut and they drafted a QB in the first round last year in Mahomes.  Sooner or later you figure they're going to want to see what they have in him, right?  Some people will say, "Why would we want a QB who is currently in the losing streak and would only play for 3-5 years?"  

It's a fair point, and it's something I struggle with too.  Should we try and put a band-aid on the QB position, or should we stick to trying to find a young QB to stabilize it for a decade?  I'd RATHER nail the position for a decade, but let's be honest here...we need to win some games NOW.  While none of us here are expecting Josh Gordon to be available next year (anybody with common sense anyways), we'd still have Corey Coleman, Duke Johnson, and David Njoku.  Probably the most appealing aspect of Alex's game to me is his accuracy and how he hits receivers IN STRIDE.  Someone like that could really help Corey Coleman.  When is the last time we got to see Coleman in space with the ball?  Never?  Christ, all that guy did in college was get yards after catch, and we still haven't found a way to get him in space.  Granted he's been hurt most of the time, but still.  And hey, maybe I'm wrong about Gordon.  Lord knows I WANT to be wrong about him, but he's broken our hearts too many times for anybody to logically depend on him.  But man...can you imagine Alex Smith throwing the rock to somebody like HIM?

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On 11/29/2017 at 10:32 AM, Tour2ma said:

I think Cousins is fool's gold... a/k/a made for us? ;) He's just good enough to contend.

Why? Finishing his 3rd year in the league... solid citizen... smart... hard-working... Hue would know whether his game prep is the example-worthy stuff.

Not saying he jumps to the top of the list, just an addition. But he does violate my "still sees himself as a starter" criteria.

Agreed on Cousins. Will want way too much $$$, and will want to go to a team where he can win immediately. 

McCarron? I don't trust the QB whisperer anymore.

17 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

I'm a lil off today... :)

Also just added Eli to the vet mix... but as FA. There are $45mm reasons to not trade for him.

And he's old. A much higher paid McCown while Rosen sits for a year? 

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20 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

I love how people wail ceaselessly about us trading out of goff and wentz. Now want us trade out of rosen/darnold/allen etc. All who at this point of their careers faced much tougher opponents than wentz did. 

Look perhaps personal issues crop up with rosen. But as of right now that kids the clear eye test winner. I pointed out a play he made against the usc game where he exhibited poise in the face of a free charging pass rusher that i honestly cant remember seeing from anyone, especially in college. Freezing the rusher with a pump fake aimed directly at him allowing an underneath crossing route to come free for a first down......i mean damn. Its easy to get googly eyed by arm talent....weedon.....but that kind of pocket poise is almost more important

I agree about Rosen. Mighty impressive. Bruins bowl eligible.

14 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

So you want to disregard stats when discussing Allen's faults? Alright then.

Let's discuss his horrible mechanics and the massive jump from the poor competition he mostly faced to the NFL then.

And trust me cal, a lot of us really know why you don't like Rosen.

Cal is hanging on preseason reports. Finally got around to watching the Wyoming- AF game. Allen looked OK, best I've seen out of him - until he got hurt. MHO? He's no Rosen or Mayfield though. 

FWIW, latest Walter Football mock has us taking Rosen #1 overall, Allen lasts until late first round.

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2 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

I haven't seen a QB who goes thru his progressions faster.

Cal go watch some more instead of taking some yahoo's word for it. Rosen is nfl ready in terms of progressions and quick release with accuracy. And I certainly would not believe some evaluator that thinks Allen comes anywhere near him. It's night and day and not even close.

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1 hour ago, hoorta said:

Agreed on Cousins. Will want way too much $$$, and will want to go to a team where he can win immediately. 

McCarron? I don't trust the QB whisperer anymore.

And he's old. A much higher paid McCown while Rosen sits for a year? 

Well, I did say there are 45mm reasons to not sign Eli.

As for AJ and Hue's judgement... not really a matter of his playing potential... his ceiling. In a "vet" you are primarily looking for a good example of how to prep for a game and a guy that can give you a couple good starts if needed. The latter was shown by AJ a couple years ago during a Bengals stretch run with playoff implications. The former is something Hue should have first hand knowledge of... no "projectiing" needed.

Any more contribution from a vet backup is a bonus... a bonus whose importance diminishes the more you are focused on developing your future QB.

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2 hours ago, hoorta said:

I agree about Rosen. Mighty impressive. Bruins bowl eligible.

Cal is hanging on preseason reports. Finally got around to watching the Wyoming- AF game. Allen looked OK, best I've seen out of him - until he got hurt. MHO? He's no Rosen or Mayfield though. 

FWIW, latest Walter Football mock has us taking Rosen #1 overall, Allen lasts until late first round.

Rosen is a prick. He is Kaepernick II. His own teammates don't like him. He's a whiner. And per Walter football,

he needs to learn to quicken his progression reads. He is a MESS off the field. The Browns will not draft him.

http://thebiglead.com/2017/05/04/nfl-scout-and-executive-on-josh-rosen-tons-of-issues-and-a-mess-off-the-field/

One anonymous AFC scouting director isn’t too keen on Rosen.

“I think all three (this year) are bottom 10 starters, maybe Mahomes with his upside creeps in to the bottom 15,” he told King. “The kid from USC has a chance; Rosen has a ton of ability but tons of issues, like dedication, to work through. And the Wyoming kid is a big, talented player. It’s a good group. It should be much better than this group.”

A second executive, also from the AFC, has a similar take.

• Rosen: “He’s the one I know the best—he’s got size, athletic tools, velocity. He’s just a mess off the field and he’s coming off the injury. He needs to grow up, but the talent is off the charts.”

The phrases “tons of issues” and “a mess off the field” suggest a growing narrative. It’s always difficult to assess the validity of these claims without knowing what they are based on or the availability of any specifics. We do know that Rosen had a hot tub in his dorm, but had to remove it. He cares not for university housing code, apparently.

And yet Rosen has also showed signs of immaturity—two years ago he and some friends rearranged a neighbor’s lawn ornaments in sexually suggestive positions—and just plain poor judgment. Since arriving at UCLA he has set off a social media firestorm over presidential politics, deleted at least one provocative Instagram post and been forced to apologize to the school. The coach is constantly asking Rosen whom he wants to be: Peyton Manning or Johnny Manziel?

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Rosen is a party boy hippo's butt. Who wants a qb that ends up getting suspended every so often in the NFL?

Preseason reports - show him to be a mess off the field. He's worse than JM, and

worse than Mayfield, and I wouldn't draft Mayfield either. Character, love for the game,

intangibles matter. and Rosen fails the grade.

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I don't see love of the game with rosen - just a physically gifted punk with a fat mouth.

2. Josh Rosen, UCLA (34 points, 3 first-place votes, 8 ballots): The Bruins are 3-3, but it’s hard to pin that on Rosen. He’s played from behind a bunch and still has the best completion percentage of his career (64.2) while throwing for 2,354 yards and 17 touchdowns through six games. That said, he’s been a little sloppy with the ball at times.

3. Josh Allen, Wyoming (23 points, 1 first-place vote, 8 ballots): Allen’s numbers are mediocre and his team is 4-2. But there’s youth all around him and scouts trust the talent. One voter put him first, and another put him in front of Rosen.

I'd draft Faulk before rosen. you want stats... look at his passing percentage. But it seems to me, Faulk and Allen love the game.

rosen loves only himself.

 

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17 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

I don't see love of the game with rosen - just a physically gifted punk with a fat mouth.

2. Josh Rosen, UCLA (34 points, 3 first-place votes, 8 ballots): The Bruins are 3-3, but it’s hard to pin that on Rosen. He’s played from behind a bunch and still has the best completion percentage of his career (64.2) while throwing for 2,354 yards and 17 touchdowns through six games. That said, he’s been a little sloppy with the ball at times.

3. Josh Allen, Wyoming (23 points, 1 first-place vote, 8 ballots): Allen’s numbers are mediocre and his team is 4-2. But there’s youth all around him and scouts trust the talent. One voter put him first, and another put him in front of Rosen.

I'd draft Faulk before rosen. you want stats... look at his passing percentage. But it seems to me, Faulk and Allen love the game.

rosen loves only himself.

 

Who was #1 on this list you pasted?   

Let me guess:  Mason Rudolph.

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31 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

Rosen is a party boy hippo's butt. Who wants a qb that ends up getting suspended every so often in the NFL?

Preseason reports - show him to be a mess off the field. He's worse than JM, and

worse than Mayfield, and I wouldn't draft Mayfield either. Character, love for the game,

intangibles matter. and Rosen fails the grade.

Again- going by preseason reports. Saying Rosen can't change? Favre was a party boy in Atlanta. Mayfield had what? One major incident? Like no one ever gets $hit faced drunk in college? Baker apologized profusely for his actions when they played Kansas, I don't recall Manziel ever saying he was sorry for anything.

If you don't have the tangibles, the intangibles don't matter Cal. At the very least Allen is a project with a capital P. We've duly noted he's not very accurate either- and don't bring up the lame argument he has no one to throw to. Didya know Mr. Scattershot Kizer had a better completion % than Allen at Notre Dame? Let that factoid distill in you for a minute or two. Allen wasn't any better in that regard last year. also broken collarbone a few years back, and injured shoulder against Air Force. So sure, let's draft Deshone's clone in the first round no less. 

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42 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

“I think all three (this year) are bottom 10 starters, maybe Mahomes with his upside creeps in to the bottom 15,” he told King.

I'm sensing a 2016/2017 evaluation.

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22 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

I don't see love of the game with rosen - just a physically gifted punk with a fat mouth.

2. Josh Rosen, UCLA (34 points, 3 first-place votes, 8 ballots): The Bruins are 3-3, but it’s hard to pin that on Rosen. He’s played from behind a bunch and still has the best completion percentage of his career (64.2) while throwing for 2,354 yards and 17 touchdowns through six games. That said, he’s been a little sloppy with the ball at times.

3. Josh Allen, Wyoming (23 points, 1 first-place vote, 8 ballots): Allen’s numbers are mediocre and his team is 4-2. But there’s youth all around him and scouts trust the talent. One voter put him first, and another put him in front of Rosen.

I'd draft Faulk before rosen. you want stats... look at his passing percentage. But it seems to me, Faulk and Allen love the game.

rosen loves only himself.

 

Unsubstantiated opinion Cal. Just because you "love the game" won't make you a great qb.  Believe what you want. Interviews will tell all. We don't even know for sure which underclassmen will declare. Allen, Rosen, and Darnold may all stay in school. Mayfield Faulk, and Rudolph are seniors. 

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2 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

I'm sensing a 2016/2017 evaluation.

Cal is behind the times- he's also using preseason evaluations of Rosen. Probably didn't watch JR play USC or Cal either. FWIW, I've seen Rosen make passes Kizer can only dream about making. 

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Rosen ain't stayin'... not with the Chipster coming to town.

Plus Darnold (again) refuted all reports of him saying he'd stay in to avoid us... but I think he stays in. Seems to have a love of college ala Leinart.

Allen? Haven't seen enough to know enough to care at this point.

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2 minutes ago, hoorta said:

FWIW, I've seen Rosen make passes Kizer can only dream about making. 

Dunno... Kizer has made some great throws... but with regularity? Yeah... with that proviso Rosen is way ahead.

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12 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Cal is behind the times- he's also using preseason evaluations of Rosen. Probably didn't watch JR play USC or Cal either. FWIW, I've seen Rosen make passes Kizer can only dream about making. 

nopie. I did watch ucla vs socal. rosen's qb skills are impressive. but it ends there. he's a jackwad prick to his teammates,

even had to get a girlfriend however temporary from ANOTHER SCHOOL. seriously, he's a jerk. I'm not drafting him if I was drafting.

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16 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Rosen ain't stayin'... not with the Chipster coming to town.

Plus Darnold (again) refuted all reports of him saying he'd stay in to avoid us... but I think he stays in. Seems to have a love of college ala Leinart.

Allen? Haven't seen enough to know enough to care at this point.

You'll get to see Allen one more time in a bowl game Tour. I've watched 4 of Allen's games (every pass) so far. Me and Ag have the same opinion, just no. To do a Ghoolie impression- he's a white Deshone Kizer- and yeah, I know one of Kizer's parents is white. The only game I've seen where Allen looked 1\2 decent was against a sub-talented Air Force team- and then he got hurt in it, to top it off..... 

Noted that when the competition heats up, Josh cools off. Anyone can look great against Gardner Webb (I bet Cal a root Beer if he could tell me what state that school is in without looking) against Iowa or Boise State? Not so much. And that's worlds below any scrub team in the NFL- like the Browns.  

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2 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

nopie. I did watch ucla vs socal. rosen's qb skills are impressive. but it ends there. he's a jackwad prick to his teammates,

even had to get a girlfriend however temporary from ANOTHER SCHOOL. seriously, he's a jerk. I'm not drafting him if I was drafting.

Fortunately, you're not doing the drafting- and neither am I.  :D   

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30 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Who was #1 on this list you pasted?   

Let me guess:  Mason Rudolph.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/10/17/2018-nfl-draft-quarterbacks-qb-rankings-sam-darnold-josh-rosen-lamar-jackson-josh-allen

That’s why I figured, here at the midway point of college football’s regular season, the time was right to poll experienced NFL evaluators (I got eight of them on the panel) who’ve watched these quarterbacks on where they stand now. The concept here is easy: Rank them 1-5, with five points for first place, four for second, and so on. These are the results from Monday’s polling:

1. Sam Darnold, USC (35 points, 4 first-place votes, appeared on all 8 ballots): Darnold’s been uneven this year, without question, having already matched his interception total from last year. But the feeling I’ve gotten is that scouts will cut him some slack because of the offensive line issues the Trojans are having. The biggest criticism is that he’s trying to do too much, not unlike what Jameis Winston his final year at Florida State

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16 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/10/17/2018-nfl-draft-quarterbacks-qb-rankings-sam-darnold-josh-rosen-lamar-jackson-josh-allen

That’s why I figured, here at the midway point of college football’s regular season, the time was right to poll experienced NFL evaluators (I got eight of them on the panel) who’ve watched these quarterbacks on where they stand now. The concept here is easy: Rank them 1-5, with five points for first place, four for second, and so on. These are the results from Monday’s polling:

1. Sam Darnold, USC (35 points, 4 first-place votes, appeared on all 8 ballots): Darnold’s been uneven this year, without question, having already matched his interception total from last year. But the feeling I’ve gotten is that scouts will cut him some slack because of the offensive line issues the Trojans are having. The biggest criticism is that he’s trying to do too much, not unlike what Jameis Winston his final year at Florida State

You have to know I was on the "Suck for Sam" train, until Mark sort of derailed it saying he's probably not going to declare...   And if it will make you happy- I'd rather have Allen than Lamar Jackson.

Hoorta Ranking 11\30 (assuming they all declare)

1A: Darnold 1B rosen

2: Mayfield

3: Allen

4: Rudolph

5: Faulk

6: Jackson

For your reading enjoyment heeerrrsss Walter....    http://walterfootball.com/draft2018QB.php

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trouble is, those rankings don't include character, love of the game, work ethic,

leadership and intangibles. by many reports, rosen is a bootywhole, a real prick to his

'teammates. Therefore, he really isn't any more the best qb in this class than Ryan Leaf was.

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2 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

trouble is, those rankings don't include character, love of the game, work ethic,

 

love of the game means nothing.   I love the game but I cant play QB.   Guy like Rosen doesn't get to be the starting QB on a D1 school if he doesn't love the game.

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It's so painfully obvious why cal has this raging hard-on for Rosen, waste a minute of your life by venturing over to the political forum to see for yourself. I can visualize him with his red MAGA hat angrily typing his "ROSEN IS A DBAG LIKE KAEPERNICK" nonsense.

Rosen could be a world-class jerk, in fact until I find out more about him I'm still hesitant to go all-in on the Rosen Bandwagon, but I find it interesting how much time cal rails on about Rosen (an outspoken opponent of Trump) but rarely brings up the sizable personality questions about Baker Mayfield, who gets as much love on this board as a potential Browns pick as Rosen does at this point.

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11 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

It's so painfully obvious why cal has this raging hard-on for Rosen, waste a minute of your life by venturing over to the political forum to see for yourself. I can visualize him with his red MAGA hat angrily typing his "ROSEN IS A DBAG LIKE KAEPERNICK" nonsense.

Rosen could be a world-class jerk, in fact until I find out more about him I'm still hesitant to go all-in on the Rosen Bandwagon, but I find it interesting how much time cal rails on about Rosen (an outspoken opponent of Trump) but rarely brings up the sizable personality questions about Baker Mayfield, who gets as much love on this board as a potential Browns pick as Rosen does at this point.

Ah, I see the light now. & BTW, just because you're a Republican doesn't mean you have to like Trump either- at all. Plenty of us #Never Trump Republicans out there. I'll leave the politics at that.  

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12 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Ah, I see the light now. & BTW, just because you're a Republican doesn't mean you have to like Trump either- at all. Plenty of us #Never Trump Republicans out there. I'll leave the politics at that.  

Absolutely hoorta.

People are going to like who they like, and dislike who they don't. All I'm asking is to be honest and upfront about it.

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9 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Why didn't we think of this?

 

7 hours ago, Mark O said:

What a concept?   Are we allowed to do this?

Well, I've heard it said before that it isn't easy, and if fact most think it's a bit of a Process

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2 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

It's so painfully obvious why cal has this raging hard-on for Rosen, waste a minute of your life by venturing over to the political forum to see for yourself. I can visualize him with his red MAGA hat angrily typing his "ROSEN IS A DBAG LIKE KAEPERNICK" nonsense.

Rosen could be a world-class jerk, in fact until I find out more about him I'm still hesitant to go all-in on the Rosen Bandwagon, but I find it interesting how much time cal rails on about Rosen (an outspoken opponent of Trump) but rarely brings up the sizable personality questions about Baker Mayfield, who gets as much love on this board as a potential Browns pick as Rosen does at this point.

  A. I only found out about that this morning when I got a link .

B. The reports are that rosen IS world class prick.

C. You are stupid - I have complained about Mayfield's lack of character bigtime on this board. 

D. Have a nice day.

oh, btw -

https://sportsnaut.com/2017/08/nfl-scout-josh-rosen-another-version-colin-kaepernick/

NFL scout: Josh Rosen ‘another version of Colin Kaepernick’

 

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