Our D

[flyingfooldoug]

2 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

So did ours fyi

The numbers say no... 0 - 11

The anal ytics say no 0-11

Numerology says no. 0-11

[RoyceRolls]

11 hours ago, D Bone said:

Points allowed is all I look for.....  

And the browns defense would allow a lot fewer points....if they were playing with the rams offense and not getting shafted with constant red zone turn overs.

[D Bone]

35 minutes ago, RoyceRolls said:

And the browns defense would allow a lot fewer points....if they were playing with the rams offense and not getting shafted with constant red zone turn overs.

Yep, and that would fall under No Schit Sherlock......  but the bottom line is our record during The Process is a historically pathetic 1-26 overall, and an equally wimpy 0-11 this year.

^ Boy, those awesome "yardage allowed" and "total defense" stats sure are impressive and totally makes that all worth while..... right?

Baby Steps 

[flyingfooldoug]

That process thing got derailed less than a month after it got laid out. Now the way it works is this, Hue reports directly to Jimmy Haslam. Stosh reports directly to Jimmy Haslam. The pudpuller reports directly to Jimmy Haslam. No one know where the berry stain is or what he's supposed to do. At least that's the way it's reported by all the local media outlets.  Pluto, Cabot, Drennan, Shaw, etc.

The "Process" ship sailed in early 2016

[D Bone]

1 minute ago, flyingfooldoug said:

That process thing got derailed less than a month after it got laid out. Now the way it works is this, Hue reports directly to Jimmy Haslam. Stosh reports directly to Jimmy Haslam. The pudpuller reports directly to Jimmy Haslam. No one know where the berry stain is or what he's supposed to do. At least that's the way it's reported by all the local media outlets.  Pluto, Cabot, Drennan, Shaw, etc.

The "Process" ship sailed in early 2016

You forgot the final, and yet most important part of the chain of command........ Jimmy reports to Dee. 

[flyingfooldoug]

11 minutes ago, D Bone said:

You forgot the final, and yet most important part of the chain of command........ Jimmy reports to Dee. 

I wish. I've been reading up on the flying J trial. Google it. Our owner takes after his cousin... Mr Haney and not so much Jethro. He may end up in trouble yet. He hired that FO too. Tsk tsk.

[thenew23]

Had to post the "Football Outsiders" drive success rates for a little perspective. Certainly not end-all-be-all but are very telling...

Browns D- 9th in the NFL in "Drive success rate"; 4th in "Plays per drive"; 6th in "yards per drive"; 16th in "points per drive... not too shabby considering they're ranked 26th in "opponent starting field position".  Their only weakness is the lack of turnovers (ranked 24th).

By comparison, the O is 30th in "yards per drive"; 32nd in "points per drive"; 32nd in turnovers; 31st in "TOP per drive"; and 26th in "Drive success rate"... and dont even get me started on redzone offense...

I like these stats, while not predictive, they align with team performance pretty well...

[thenew23]

By comparison, last year we finished 31st in defense "drive succesd rate"; 31st in "points per drive"; and 27th in "yards per drive".  Not to mention they were just sad to watch...

[Mark O]

13 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

U see that we're ranked well ahead of the rams in total defense right?

You see that they have like a million more wins than us right?   Who fucking cares who we are ranked ahead of in total defense.  Your awesome defense got ass raped for 30 points yesterday.  5 possessions....5 scores to start the game.   Whats the excuse for that shit this week?    

5 possessions.......5 scores = below average to shitty defense.

[Mark O]

12 hours ago, jcam222 said:

How many of those points are given up in the 2nd half after they've been on the field way to long? Surely the lack of O time with the ball hurts. Either way to say this is the worst D we have had is laughable. 

Yesterday....the first 5 times the Bengals had the ball they scored.  The first 5 fucking times....So there goes the points in the 2nd half argument.    There have been others.   Houston, Cincy (the first time) and Indy also completely shredded this defense in the first half.  

The entire team, other than a few players here and there is lousy. 

[Clevfan4life]

Dude they scored one td in the first quarter than 3 fg's in the 2nd. Cmon dude, put things in perspective. Im not homering for the defense, i was not pleased with their run d yesterday. So do u now understand that run defense isnt some afterthought but actually a critical part of stopping an offense? Ur the guy that said a week or so ago run d doesnt matter when it was something we were ok at. Nowvthat we lost cause our d got gashed on the run which opened up all kinds of options for the shytty bengals, what do u say now about run d? Still pointless or do u get it now?

[Mark O]

Just now, Clevfan4life said:

Dude they scored one td in the first quarter than 3 fg's in the 2nd. Cmon dude, put things in perspective. Im not homering for the defense, i was not pleased with their run d yesterday. So do u now understand that run defense isnt some afterthought but actually a critical part of stopping an offense? Ur the guy that said a week or so ago run d doesnt matter when it was something we were ok at. Nowvthat we lost cause our d got gashed on the run which opened up all kinds of options for the shytty bengals, what do u say now about run d? Still pointless or do u get it now?

5 possessions.....5 scores.   Hard to win games when you give up points on every single drive to start a game.  

You are homering for the defense and their stupid ass coordinator.   I never said that run defense doesn't matter.  I'm the guy who said that the stupid stats you keep talking about don't matter.  I've watched the team every week and the defense isn't that good.  The stats that you like to post don't match up to the actual performance of the defense.    Great...the defense is better than our offense....wonderful.  Our offense sucks donkey ass and is the worst in the league.  Doesn't take much for the defense to be better than that.   Doesn't mean it's any good either.   Game on the line yesterday....down 7, all the momentum in our favor and what happens.   Absolutely gashed for 35 yards in 2 plays.....defense nowhere to be seen.   Now we did get hosed on that penalty call on the 3rd down pass play but even after that....the Bengals went the last 35 yards in like 3 plays to score a TD and finish the game off.  

[Nero]

31st on points allowed. 

I wouldn't defend this defense after the disastrous game they played yesterday. They don't make a stop when you need them to.

[The Gipper]

20 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

awww you must be a fresh noobinz that's been watching the browns for like 2 years. You have no idea how bad past defense's were

Uhmm, Roach is like one of the founding members of this board. He basically runs the BB Tailgate. 

So...calling him a "fresh noobiz" is kind hilarious.

[Clevfan4life]

14 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Uhmm, Roach is like one of the founding members of this board. He basically runs the BB Tailgate. 

So...calling him a "fresh noobiz" is kind hilarious.

Obviously i dibt know that. Saying this def is the worst in browns history essentially, is glaringly myopic tho so i thought someone was a new'ish fan. Cause we've had defenses in the past ~20 years that did absolutely nothing well. 

[jcam222]

12 hours ago, D Bone said:

The D is certainly not the worst we've had in the v2.0 era that's for sure, but it's also not the juggernaut that some want to say it is either. 

Well said. I'd say losing Collins and Ogbah hurt like hell as well. 

[Clevfan4life]

37 minutes ago, Nero said:

31st on points allowed. 

I wouldn't defend this defense after the disastrous game they played yesterday. They don't make a stop when you need them to.

 

42 minutes ago, Mark O said:

5 possessions.....5 scores.   Hard to win games when you give up points on every single drive to start a game.  

You are homering for the defense and their stupid butt coordinator.   I never said that run defense doesn't matter.  I'm the guy who said that the stupid stats you keep talking about don't matter.  I've watched the team every week and the defense isn't that good.  The stats that you like to post don't match up to the actual performance of the defense.    Great...the defense is better than our offense....wonderful.  Our offense sucks donkey butt and is the worst in the league.  Doesn't take much for the defense to be better than that.   Doesn't mean it's any good either.   Game on the line yesterday....down 7, all the momentum in our favor and what happens.   Absolutely gashed for 35 yards in 2 plays.....defense nowhere to be seen.   Now we did get hosed on that penalty call on the 3rd down pass play but even after that....the Bengals went the last 35 yards in like 3 plays to score a TD and finish the game off.  

Have u already firgotten the offensive starting positions the bengals enjoyed most of yesterdays game? Especially when our kicker became the punter? Yeah cin had some drives that started well into their own teritory but just in the 1st half they had i think 3 maybe 4 drives that started either outright on our side of the field or very close and i beleive the def held them to fg's on those drives.

Im sorry im just not going into tearbit all up and start completely over again for the 12444 time in the last 7-8 years. I dont care how many games they've lost this year and last. The proof that scrapping everything leads nowhere is evident every sunday

[The Gipper]

10 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

Obviously i dibt know that. Saying this def is the worst in browns history essentially, is glaringly myopic tho so i thought someone was a new'ish fan. Cause we've had defenses in the past ~20 years that did absolutely nothing well. 

Well, I took that to be a frustration level observation......and not one that was based on stats, play, any observable evidence.  It was merely an emotional response to the situation.

He could have said this was the worst QB situation we have ever had.  The worst special teams, the worst Ol, the worst coaching, etc.  He just decided to take out his frustration on the defense.  Because it is true that they didn't play as well as we all think they should.

If he had said, these last two years are the worst this team has ever been in his lifetime....that would have been sufficient and accurate.  But that was too easy I suspect. 

[Tour2ma]

2 hours ago, thenew23 said:

Had to post the "Football Outsiders" drive success rates for a little perspective. Certainly not end-all-be-all but are very telling...

Browns D- 9th in the NFL in "Drive success rate"; 4th in "Plays per drive"; 6th in "yards per drive"; 16th in "points per drive... not too shabby considering they're ranked 26th in "opponent starting field position".  Their only weakness is the lack of turnovers (ranked 24th).

By comparison, the O is 30th in "yards per drive"; 32nd in "points per drive"; 32nd in turnovers; 31st in "TOP per drive"; and 26th in "Drive success rate"... and dont even get me started on redzone offense...

I like these stats, while not predictive, they align with team performance pretty well...

So kinda like, "No D can do it alone"?

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

Uhmm, Roach is like one of the founding members of this board. He basically runs the BB Tailgate. 

So...calling him a "fresh noobiz" is kind hilarious.

So "Stale Codger"?

[wargograw]

16 hours ago, D Bone said:

2016 Rams gave up 24.6pts per game

2017 Rams giving up 18.7pts per game

Not the 1st time you've been wrong, and certainly not the last.......................... 

2016 Rams-9th in total D

2017 Rams-17th in total D

Don’t tangle with me. 

15 hours ago, D Bone said:

Points allowed is all I look for.....  

Bout what I expected. 

[wargograw]

1 hour ago, Nero said:

31st on points allowed. 

I wouldn't defend this defense after the disastrous game they played yesterday. They don't make a stop when you need them to.

They did actually. Refs screwed them. 

[Nero]

2 minutes ago, wargograw said:

They did actually. Refs screwed them. 

Mmmh, Detroit? Minnesota? The first 5 Cincinnati drives when our offense at least was running some drives?

Every time our offense steps up (they haven't done it on daily basis), the D screws it up. They are better than the offense, but they don't take the team on their shoulders.

[The Gipper]

So "Stale Codger"?

More like "Poster Emeritus" that deserves more respect.

[Clevfan4life]

1 hour ago, Nero said:

 but they don't take the team on their shoulders.

And they cant be expected to in ONE YEAR. And tbh if we dont pick up a vet DE in FA most if u are going to be salty about the pass rushing next year too. Garrett will be ok but if its ogbah next year starting opposite him we're gonna be mire or kess right where we are now.

point of all of this isnt that anybody thinks the def is world class now....but it has potential. The last time the def looked to be building something was under jauron and i have zero doubt the same characters were here baying for shurmurs job with no thought to what would gappen to the defense.  

And what did happen to the defense? We stood jabaal sheard up and brought paul fukking Kruger to town. And that lasted one year. Than pettine came to town and we thought well at least its still a 3-4 so not much of a change. But then we learn players like dansby, who made their name as 3-4 players.....still had to Jenny craig down to the size of safeties to fit oettines 3-4. No clue there. 

So scheme changes, especially on defense, matter like nothing else. If only lerner had just stepped in and told chud ur stuck with jauron deal with it......maybe we could have a perennial top 10 defense at this point. What i can assure u is that if another 3-4 clown comes in next year and garett, ogbah and nassib are standing up.....ur gonna reminisce about the good ole Williams defense  from ages ago.

We've seen what ogbah and nassib look like standing up in a 3-4....its shyt. And frankly i wouldnt be surprised if they immediately asked for a trade cause all 4 of our DE's were batural 4-3 guys in college. Yo yo'ing back and forth between schemes for an inept irganization that cant make scheme commitments last longer than standard car leases, is not something these guys want to do and it coyld be career altering for them. Thats a big reason why no one wants to come to Cleveland. Thats why darnold doesn't want  to come here. A new fukking playbook and formations every year? Nope fuk going to cleveland

[roach]

13 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

And they cant be expected to in ONE YEAR. And tbh if we dont pick up a vet DE in FA most if u are going to be salty about the pass rushing next year too. Garrett will be ok but if its ogbah next year starting opposite him we're gonna be mire or kess right where we are now.

point of all of this isnt that anybody thinks the def is world class now....but it has potential. The last time the def looked to be building something was under jauron and i have zero doubt the same characters were here baying for shurmurs job with no thought to what would gappen to the defense.  

And what did happen to the defense? We stood jabaal sheard up and brought paul fukking Kruger to town. And that lasted one year. Than pettine came to town and we thought well at least its still a 3-4 so not much of a change. But then we learn players like dansby, who made their name as 3-4 players.....still had to Jenny craig down to the size of safeties to fit oettines 3-4. No clue there. 

So scheme changes, especially on defense, matter like nothing else. If only lerner had just stepped in and told chud ur stuck with jauron deal with it......maybe we could have a perennial top 10 defense at this point. What i can assure u is that if another 3-4 clown comes in next year and garett, ogbah and nassib are standing up.....ur gonna reminisce about the good ole Williams defense  from ages ago.

We've seen what ogbah and nassib look like standing up in a 3-4....its shyt. And frankly i wouldnt be surprised if they immediately asked for a trade cause all 4 of our DE's were batural 4-3 guys in college. Yo yo'ing back and forth between schemes for an inept irganization that cant make scheme commitments last longer than standard car leases, is not something these guys want to do and it coyld be career altering for them. Thats a big reason why no one wants to come to Cleveland. Thats why darnold doesn't want  to come here. A new fukking playbook and formations every year? Nope fuk going to cleveland

Thank you.  Agreed.  I just don’t type that much anymore.

[roach]

2 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

 

2 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

So "Stale Codger"?

Maybe.  I don’t know what a codger is.

i know this.  My memory goes back to Johnson,  Kanicki, Houston, Beach , Parish, Fiss Kellerman, and others.

i know that in 1999 I bought 12 PSL’s and my buddies bought their season ticket from me.  i’m down to 2.  Myself and my son.  He drives in from Milwaukee to sit with me every game.  

I know this. Frank Minnifield is the best CB that I’ve ever seen play the game.

i know this. This defense is awful.  

I know this.  This is not an emotional response, but one based on my observations.

I know this.  This is a lot of typing for an old codger (whatever that is)

[Clevfan4life]

I remember when we had a good offense a few years ago and the defense just gave every game away seemingly. 

[wargograw]

2 hours ago, Nero said:

Mmmh, Detroit? Minnesota? The first 5 Cincinnati drives when our offense at least was running some drives?

Every time our offense steps up (they haven't done it on daily basis), the D screws it up. They are better than the offense, but they don't take the team on their shoulders.

If you’re making a general point that their good play doesn’t sync with the offense’s, then make the general point. But don’t say “they don’t make a stop when you need them to” when with the game on the line, they did. 

 

And clev is right that everyone’s expectations are way too high. This D is a year ahead of schedule. 

 

[Nero]

1 hour ago, Clevfan4life said:

And they cant be expected to in ONE YEAR. And tbh if we dont pick up a vet DE in FA most if u are going to be salty about the pass rushing next year too. Garrett will be ok but if its ogbah next year starting opposite him we're gonna be mire or kess right where we are now.

point of all of this isnt that anybody thinks the def is world class now....but it has potential. The last time the def looked to be building something was under jauron and i have zero doubt the same characters were here baying for shurmurs job with no thought to what would gappen to the defense.  

And what did happen to the defense? We stood jabaal sheard up and brought paul fukking Kruger to town. And that lasted one year. Than pettine came to town and we thought well at least its still a 3-4 so not much of a change. But then we learn players like dansby, who made their name as 3-4 players.....still had to Jenny craig down to the size of safeties to fit oettines 3-4. No clue there. 

So scheme changes, especially on defense, matter like nothing else. If only lerner had just stepped in and told chud ur stuck with jauron deal with it......maybe we could have a perennial top 10 defense at this point. What i can assure u is that if another 3-4 clown comes in next year and garett, ogbah and nassib are standing up.....ur gonna reminisce about the good ole Williams defense  from ages ago.

We've seen what ogbah and nassib look like standing up in a 3-4....its shyt. And frankly i wouldnt be surprised if they immediately asked for a trade cause all 4 of our DE's were batural 4-3 guys in college. Yo yo'ing back and forth between schemes for an inept irganization that cant make scheme commitments last longer than standard car leases, is not something these guys want to do and it coyld be career altering for them. Thats a big reason why no one wants to come to Cleveland. Thats why darnold doesn't want  to come here. A new fukking playbook and formations every year? Nope fuk going to cleveland

For me, it looks good... At times

I've read a lot that changing defense schemes and making a defense work takes time, and I guess that it will be better next year, but trying to show some stats and forget about Points Allowed per game, which is the most important one, and trying to defend the defense at all costs after they cost us a game yesterday, it's a bit overpassionate.

You can't expect 0-11, 1-26 fans to cheer about a defense hours after a loss where they allowed 30 points to one of the teams with worst points scored per game stats in the league.

[wargograw]

Well. So much for Nero being one of the reasonable posters. Have fun at the Ghoolie worship services brother.