Team of losers

[lodilobo]

This entire team...players, coaches, executives, owners, have transformed into comfortable losers. I can tell by watching them play. They have no desire or hope of winning any game. They have become what they are through incompetence. There is plenty of talent on this team, but they refuse to use it. This is not to say that  a few are not playing hard....some are. They are not playing at NFL competitive level, though. There are absolutely no leaders, including the head coach on this team. Yes...they are young, but someone should have the balls to get pissed off...throw chairs in the locker room...and demand more out of these guys. There is no one, so they accept...actually embrace losing. There is less pressure on them that way. One leader on the team would make a difference. I don't have an easy solution. The best thing to do at this point, since the entire team, and the fans have become apathetic, is to clean house completely. As things are, if immediate and major changes are not made, the losing will become deeper embedded in the young players. Only when they leave here, and are re introduced to winning, and positive forces that demand winning, and playing at respectable level, will they become competent players again. Apathy has set in with this entire organization, and the owner is too stupid to react to it. The NFL needs to step in, and put pressure on him to sell, or make changes. I'm sure an NFL franchise comes with the requirement of supplying a reasonably decent product. This is no longer a losing streak fueled by bad luck. This has become standard operating procedure with the Cleveland Browns.

[darren15]

[flyingfooldoug]

We made the Jags better by hiring stosh

[Marc1971]

Problem is, there's no hope as long as Jimmy H is around.

[lodilobo]

2 minutes ago, Marc1971 said:

Problem is, there's no hope as long as Jimmy H is around.

I'm really coming around to believe this...

[medicineman]

This team did not quit yesterday.If it was not for a bullsjit call things mite have ended different. They would never call that bs on Pisspuke.. 

[flyingfooldoug]

15 minutes ago, medicineman said:

This team did not quit yesterday.If it was not for a bullsjit call things mite have ended different. They would never call that bs on Pisspuke.. 

That call was legit by today's rules. The crown of the helmet hit the chin. Very obvious. I don't like it but the rule is the rule. 

[Tour2ma]

Peppers' hit...

• Incidentally contacted the bottom of the receiver's facemask...
• Force of the blow was delivered by left shoulder to right arm/rib cage and did not rise to the head or neck area.
• Helmet was not lowered nor was it raised when Peppers lowered his shoulder.
• Peppers did not launch, he ran thru the hit.

So in summary... was not targeting... was not leading with the helmet.

It was an overzealous, bullsh!t call reacting to the force of the hit made by a ref well removed from the play who was in a poor position to make the call. Noteworthy was the closest ref, the one in the endzone less than 10 yards from the play, made no call. He should have overruled. I think Berea will get an apology letter this week.

Clearest conclusion... we need NCAA style video review... and ejections, if warranted.

Here's the rule complete with Note 1, which is key:

b. Prohibited contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture is:

1. forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, even if the initial contact is lower than the player’s neck, and regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless player by encircling or grasping him
2. lowering the head and making forcible contact with the crown or ”hairline” parts of the helmet against any part of the defenseless player’s body
3. illegally launching into a defenseless opponent. It is an illegal launch if a player (i) leaves both feet prior to contact to spring forward and upward into his opponent, and (ii) uses any part of his helmet to initiate forcible contact against any part of his opponent’s body. (This does not apply to contact against a runner, unless the runner is still considered to be a defenseless player, as defined in Article 7.)

Note 1: The provisions of (b) do not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or helmet in the course of a conventional tackle or block on an opponent.

Here's the link to the Rule Book. https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2017-nfl-rulebook/

Here's a photo series of the impact... note the WR's shoulder torque from the body blow:

[flyingfooldoug]

The crown of his helmet hit the guys chin. Peppers gonna get a fine.

[Richiswhere]

33 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

 

Clearest conclusion... we need NCAA style video review... and ejections, if warranted.

 

You really want that?

 

[Canton Dawg]

Technically, he wasn't a defenseless receiver.

He had the ball, and made 2 steps before he was popped. 

[Mark O]

22 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

Technically, he wasn't a defenseless receiver.

He had the ball, and made 2 steps before he was popped. 

I thought it was a clean hit as well and nearly every NFL media type said the same thing that I have read.    

[Tour2ma]

1 hour ago, flyingfooldoug said:

The crown of his helmet hit the guys chin. Peppers gonna get a fine.

Sure it did...

Care to make it interesting?

55 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

Technically, he wasn't a defenseless receiver.

He had the ball, and made 2 steps before he was popped. 

Which means it should have been a completed pass and fumble OB... I think... but who knows anymore.

[flyingfooldoug]

The rule states that you can't hit a player in the head chin or face with the crown of your helmet. Regardless if it was the initial hit or not. 

 I've never wagered against the Browns in any way in my entire life.  Never wagered online either.  If I want to make a bet, there are plenty of bookies in the Mahoning valley. I like to shop local.

[Clevfan4life]

It was borderline. The endzone ref should have had the say. It was "clear" that the leading body part of peppers was the shoulder to the chest but when the rec's head snaps forward from the blow his chin impacts the helmet. The intent if the def player "clearly" was within tbe rules ir the gelmet would gave hit first. Peppers gets no fine.

[The Gipper]

 

[browns52]

7 hours ago, medicineman said:

This team did not quit yesterday.If it was not for a bullsjit call things mite have ended different. They would never call that bs on Pisspuke..

bull Shmucking Sheet...the game was lost when Shmuckass glass hands coleman dropped a perfect pass...yeah...he da man alright...he Shmucking stinks...another bust from jimmy hasshit's analytic morons....

[Canton Dawg]

5 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Sure it did...

Care to make it interesting?

Which means it should have been a completed pass and fumble OB... I think... but who knows anymore.

Correct, the refs screwed the Bungholes on that play.

It would’ve been a catch and fumble out of bounds at around the 5 yard line.

But the NFL struggles with the true definition of a “catch” these days.

[Canton Dawg]

2 hours ago, flyingfooldoug said:

The rule states that you can't hit a player in the head chin or face with the crown of your helmet. Regardless if it was the initial hit or not. 

 I've never wagered against the Browns in any way in my entire life.  Never wagered online either.  If I want to make a bet, there are plenty of bookies in the Mahoning valley. I like to shop local.

Did you see the hit that Mixon put on Peppers?

He led with the crown of his helmet when he trucked Peppers.

 

[medicineman]

8 hours ago, flyingfooldoug said:

The rule states that you can't hit a player in the head chin or face with the crown of your helmet. Regardless if it was the initial hit or not. 

 I've never wagered against the Browns in any way in my entire life.  Never wagered online either.  If I want to make a bet, there are plenty of bookies in the Mahoning valley. I like to shop local.

Well the refs who were working the Green Bay Pisspuke game must not know that when T.J Watt hit the qb leading with his helmet hitting him in the helmet a sure as fuk helmet to helmet but NO CALL Because it is Pisspuke. Any more the wwe is the same as the nfl. The refs see what they want. Pisspuke is getting another ring this year to honor the Rooney tat kicked the bucket. 

[hoorta]

13 hours ago, Mark O said:

I thought it was a clean hit as well and nearly every NFL media type said the same thing that I have read.    

That was the only thing in the game that upset me Mark. Total BS call. As others have said- we're not getting the calls (or no-calls) because we suck. 

[flyingfooldoug]

5 hours ago, medicineman said:

Well the refs who were working the Green Bay Pisspuke game must not know that when T.J Watt hit the qb leading with his helmet hitting him in the helmet a sure as fuk helmet to helmet but NO CALL Because it is Pisspuke. Any more the wwe is the same as the nfl. The refs see what they want. Pisspuke is getting another ring this year to honor the Rooney tat kicked the bucket. 

I don't like the rule and have seen it enforced in a variety of ways. Goodhell sucks on that one too.

 But according to the rules as written, it's a good call. 

[jiggins7919]

This might be a gross oversimplification, but you know what I see virtually every week? I see a team that just doesn't make the effing plays when they're THERE. If we strip the ball out, we don't recover it. If Boddy-Calhoun has two chances at difficult pick-6's, he can't make the play (either dang time!). If Corey Coleman gets a PERFECT throw for a deep touchdown opportunity...he DROPS it. Listen, I haven't seen the stats, but we HAVE TO BE last in "big touchdown plays", right? Christ, about the only time we get a freaking TD is if Kizer gets close enough to run it in! Corey really hurt us there, and it just goes to my point that we have a bunch of players who simply CANNOT MAKE THE EFFING PLAYS when we need them. Kizer has Higgins open in the end zone...throws it 8 feet behind him. Kizer has Higgins open in the red zone for a 20 yard gain....throws it 9 feet high and picked again. Kizer doesn't see Njoku wide open in the end zone. Kizer doesn't see Dreggs break-dancing in the end zone. Kizer misses the fade pattern approximately 57 times in a row. Our defense has 4 people surrounding Brissett on 3rd and goal, everybody whiffs and the Colts score another TD. Our kicker misses FG's in a close Jets game. Skillet Hands Louis and Kenny Britt drop passes, and Crow misses holes. The plays are THERE, we just consistently screw them up.

Is this coaching? Can Hue be held responsible for his players tinkling down their legs when it's time for them to make the play? Hue certainly has his share of blame, but he can't catch the ball. Recover the fumble. Make the pick. Kick the FG. Throw it accurately, right? Yes Hue has messed up multiple clock situations. Yes he messes up some play calls. But he ultimately has put our terrible team in a few situations to win and they just haven't figured it out. Same thing LAST year. Jesus, that abysmal team should've won 4 games. 

I need some coffee and perhaps a Xanax. 

[flyingfooldoug]

I was just reading about another exec that Jimmy Haslam hired. He said...

" I cheated customers and I did it well."

And I bet he could run a football team as good as Stosh and co. I know I could.

[calfoxwc]

5 hours ago, hoorta said:

That was the only thing in the game that upset me Mark. Total BS call. As others have said- we're not getting the calls (or no-calls) because we suck. 

which means the NFL refs are corrupt. I think they screw with the Browns, knowing goodhell hates us for demanding

our team back. look at how we started - not at all like the two later expansion teams did. and on and on it goes...

and draft mistakes never helped. and why would any top FA go to a team that doesn't even get fair calls from referrees?

and on and on it goes.

[Tour2ma]

20 hours ago, flyingfooldoug said:

The rule states that you can't hit a player in the head chin or face with the crown of your helmet. Regardless if it was the initial hit or not.

lol... This after I pointed out the importance of Note 1?

12 hours ago, medicineman said:

Well the refs who were working the Green Bay Pisspuke game must not know that when T.J Watt hit the qb leading with his helmet hitting him in the helmet a sure as fuk helmet to helmet but NO CALL Because it is Pisspuke. Any more the wwe is the same as the nfl. The refs see what they want. Pisspuke is getting another ring this year to honor the Rooney tat kicked the bucket. 

I think the point there was that Hundley had become a runner and thus, by the rule, lost his "protection".

But even were this not the case I hate seeing any call on the D when the offensive player ducks into the helmet to helmet hit. Case in point was a "defenseless receiver" hit on Cooper in the OAK/DNV game. Cooper had lowered his head to waist level and was leading with his helmet leaving nothing left to hit.

 

Bottom line: The refs need help with these bang-bang play, judgement calls, i.e., replay.

Remember when there was a 5-yd, "accidental" facemask call in the rules? It was deemed to be too tough on the Refs to call vs. the 15-yd intentional variety. lol... It was child's play compared to many of these hits.

[flyingfooldoug]

On 11/27/2017 at 12:49 PM, Tour2ma said:

Sure it did...

Care to make it interesting?

Which means it should have been a completed pass and fumble OB... I think... but who knows anymore.

It sucks but he got fined $24,000

[Dutch Oven]

A few thoughts on this:

1. While not blatant, his helmet went into his chin. By the letter of the law, it should have been called a penalty.

2. If the Browns/Peppers hadn't gotten a penalty on that play, and it was deemed just an incomplete pass, it would have been the Bengals who would have been screwed on that play because of the obvious pass interference that the refs missed. He caught the ball one-handed because our corner had hold of the Bengals receivers other arm.

[Mark O]

15 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

A few thoughts on this:

1. While not blatant, his helmet went into his chin. By the letter of the law, it should have been called a penalty.

I saw this as well...and saw it in the pics that Tour posted.  That makes my issue with what penalty was called.  It wasn't for a hit to the head...it was for a defenseless receiver, which begs the question, how many steps after a catch does a player have to make before he's not defenseless anymore?

[Canton Dawg]

2 hours ago, Mark O said:

I saw this as well...and saw it in the pics that Tour posted.  That makes my issue with what penalty was called.  It wasn't for a hit to the head...it was for a defenseless receiver, which begs the question, how many steps after a catch does a player have to make before he's not defenseless anymore?

My question is, if the NFL is so concerned about hits to the helmet, why are RB’s & WR’s permitted to drop their head and lead with their helmet? The rules seem one sided.