Apathy Setting In

[jiggins7919]

Well guys, the more I think about it, the more I’m completely on the side of “keeping everyone together” on the coaching staff.  If people want to talk about sending Sashi back to his formal role, that’s fine.  We can bring in a new GM or whatever, but I want our coaches and our systems to remain the same.  I don’t care if we DO go 0-16 this year, we know without a doubt that changing things up every year or two doesn’t work, and will never work.  We need to bring in an OC, or promote one from within, and we need to leave our coaches ALONE.  I’m not thrilled with our special teams in terms of FG’s and our return game, but other than that blocked punt against the Steelers, we’ve been ok. 

Our biggest issues on offense is our red zone failures and our lack of talent.  We’re starting to address our talent via the draft, and we’ll add some more players this year.  Coleman and Gordon are back.  I think we’ll draft an impact RB early, and I believe we’ll bring in a WR (Allen Robinson??).  Our OL will be decent to strong, and if we can fix our red zone deficiencies, all of the sudden this COULD become an offense that can score enough to win.  Am I sold on Kizer?  Absolutely not.  Is he trending UPWARDS?  I believe so.  Three out of Kizer’s last four games have been some of his best so far, and the one sore spot was against Jacksonville…who made a lot of QB’s look bad.  Look at Kizer’s first game against Cincy, and then look at Sunday’s game.  Kizer SHOULD’VE been 20-31 with 320 yards and 1 passing TD and one rushing TD for a rating of about 110.  Obviously drops happen, but the drops made by Coleman and Ricardo were just ridiculous. 

We have assets, draft picks, and young players that COULD make “the leap”.  If we bring in a new coach and new defensive coordinator, we’re “starting over”.  Our young players aren’t going to BUILD on what they’ve learned, they are basically going to start learning all over.  Keep everyone, add an OC, and let’s see if we can’t nail these draft picks.  Let’s make that big WR move in FA.  Let’s NOT give up touchdowns 80% of the time in the red zone.  What we DON’T want to do is blow it all up.  We take a QB number one in case Kizer doesn’t improve.  We sign a veteran QB in case they both suck or we have injuries.  We add to the secondary and stay the course.  All I know is, when I look back at Jared Goff last year, the guy was seriously overwhelmed.  Yeah, I know he got a new coach, but it was more than just that.  Do I expect Kizer to make that same kind of jump?  Not really, and that’s why we still draft a QB at #1 and sign a veteran (goodbye Cody and Kevin).  Keep adding more talent, stop blowing it all up. 

[Tour2ma]

22 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

But I don't want to wait until my grandkids are 20!

They aren't already?

18 hours ago, stillmotion said:

I swear, you can't question anything he does without a shitload of kickback from the sunshine pumpers.

Then turn around... we'll kick you in the balls for a while...

16 hours ago, jcam222 said:

I have to admit I suffer frI'm it to say me degree.

well... stlay away frl'm I... dlon't want me catch to that.

15 hours ago, gumby73 said:

Suck It Up Buttercups..only 2 years in..most posted 3 to 4.Sure we need some key pieces. But, Were not quitin on this Sunday neither..(rigged in video.may need to refresh once.no.i don't know why   

Bless you... you found the clip I was looking for last week.

[Tour2ma]

16 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

If people want to talk about sending Sashi back to his formal role, that’s fine.  We can bring in a new GM or whatever, but I want our coaches and our systems to remain the same. 

If we were ever on the same page, that just ended.

I'm also for keeping the Hue and Gregg, but if someone has to go, then the priority has to be to keep the FO structure in place.

[Bob806]

I watch every game and hope for the best. Tailgating Dec 10th vs the Pack. Hopelessly addicted. I won't go to the Ratbirds game, never, ever will (thanks Art & Tagliabue).

This is indeed sad. 4-44 the last 48 games.

I'm not going to judge how a fan is supposed to act during a crisis like this. I do worry that the younger fans have nothing to cling too, just stories from us old-timers about the old stadium and the crazy atmosphere, some gold-old AFC Central battles, and AAFC/NFL glory. 

My dad bought me a book for Christmas called "Cleveland Browns" by Jack Clary. In it, the last pages, had NFL stats. At time of publish (1972), the Browns had the best winning percentage in NFL history. 45 years later, well......

 

[jrb12711]

1 hour ago, Bob806 said:

I watch every game and hope for the best. Tailgating Dec 10th vs the Pack. Hopelessly addicted. I won't go to the Ratbirds game, never, ever will (thanks Art & Tagliabue).

This is indeed sad. 4-44 the last 48 games.

I'm not going to judge how a fan is supposed to act during a crisis like this. I do worry that the younger fans have nothing to cling too, just stories from us old-timers about the old stadium and the crazy atmosphere, some gold-old AFC Central battles, and AAFC/NFL glory. 

My dad bought me a book for Christmas called "Cleveland Browns" by Jack Clary. In it, the last pages, had NFL stats. At time of publish (1972), the Browns had the best winning percentage in NFL history. 45 years later, well......

 

 

Trust me, as a guy fixing to turn 28 (and many friends who are in the same boat), this statement cannot be more true. Since I've been alive and old enough to watch football the Browns have had 2 good seasons, and one 1 playoff appearance (when I just turned 14). Seriously, think on that for a second. You older guys can at least rest on the laurels of the 80s. I get they didn't win the whole thing, but damn they were at least worth watching. 

The sentiment is nearly the same. I'll never stop being a Browns fan, but I'm sure as Sheet not spending my time/money to go to Cleveland to watch them play. I'm sure as Sheet not spending my dollars on jerseys that probably wont mean anything in 3 years. And I'm sure as Sheet this time of year not going to ruin my Sundays for a terrible football team. Why would anyone?

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, jrb12711 said:

 

Trust me, as a guy fixing to turn 28 (and many friends who are in the same boat), this statement cannot be more true. Since I've been alive and old enough to watch football the Browns have had 2 good seasons, and one 1 playoff appearance (when I just turned 14). Seriously, think on that for a second. You older guys can at least rest on the laurels of the 80s. I get they didn't win the whole thing, but damn they were at least worth watching. 

For some of us...it is the laurels of the 60s that we recall.  Moi  included.   (but I am not so old as to remember the laurels of the 50s)

The sentiment is nearly the same. I'll never stop being a Browns fan, but I'm sure as Sheet not spending my time/money to go to Cleveland to watch them play. I'm sure as Sheet not spending my dollars on jerseys that probably wont mean anything in 3 years. And I'm sure as Sheet this time of year not going to ruin my Sundays for a terrible football team. Why would anyone?

 

[stillmotion]

1 hour ago, jrb12711 said:

 

Trust me, as a guy fixing to turn 28 (and many friends who are in the same boat), this statement cannot be more true. Since I've been alive and old enough to watch football the Browns have had 2 good seasons, and one 1 playoff appearance (when I just turned 14). Seriously, think on that for a second. You older guys can at least rest on the laurels of the 80s. I get they didn't win the whole thing, but damn they were at least worth watching. 

The sentiment is nearly the same. I'll never stop being a Browns fan, but I'm sure as Sheet not spending my time/money to go to Cleveland to watch them play. I'm sure as Sheet not spending my dollars on jerseys that probably wont mean anything in 3 years. And I'm sure as Sheet this time of year not going to ruin my Sundays for a terrible football team. Why would anyone?

Being the same age as you and in the same situation, I feel the same way.

[PoeticG]

Hue has to go. He's not a good HC. He's an okay OC. He's not a QB guru. Hue doesn't have a clue about Defense so it's no wonder he can't figure out a decent gameplan to defeat one. Jump in the lake Hue, we'll take ANYBODY but YOU.

[PoeticG]

I gave Hue a lot of credit at the beginning of the season when he made Hogan the backup, the cat deserved it. He made a good call. But then again, he let the FO take Haden, he let them not resign Pryor. He cut the other Pryor, who is probably better than Peppers because he didn't back down and submit to his bitch butt. He's constantly saying nothing is given, but he's GIVEN the Kitanic an entire season worth of starts which was undeserved. He's constantly saying he won't make excuses, but makes them every interview, ie. we aren't built to take 2 shots into the endzone with 30 seconds on the clock! He says we aren't good enough to overcome mistakes and so on and so forth! That is the exact reason that we cannot- Because of Hue and his demeanor. He's a loser and we're gonna be losers until the day he's kicked into the lake. Good riddance, I won't lose any sleep, I know that much. 

 

[Tour2ma]

Took two posts, but had to know Hogan was going to be in the mix at some point...

[Mark O]

1 hour ago, PoeticG said:

 But then again, he let the FO take Haden, he let them not resign Pryor.

 

Haden was an injury prone liability in the secondary.   Not worth the money they were paying him and McCourty (a great FA signing) has been better than Haden has been in years.  Releasing him was the right move.    Pryor wanted WAY too much money for what he was.   And look how he's turned out for the Redskins....he hasn't done shit all season.  Another good move by the front office.  They offered Pryor a fair deal and he didn't want it.   Good riddance to him.   He ain't gonna sniff that money this offseason the Browns offered him last offseason.  

You're bitching about two of the better moves the front office made.

[Mark O]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Took two posts, but had to know Hogan was going to be in the mix at some point...

Hue must seriously hate Hogan....unofficial depth chart is out and Hogan is still QB3 behind Cody "deer in the headlights" Kessler.      

Either that or Hogan must seriously suck donkey balls in practice because anyone watching Kessler can see that the hits the kid took last year clearly took a toll on the boy.  He was tough and gritty and spunky and all the other things we've loved about the other below average QB's we've had over the years (Frye, Dorsey, McCoy, etc, etc) but man....he looks scared to death when he's in the game this year.

[thenew23]

8 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

Well guys, the more I think about it, the more I’m completely on the side of “keeping everyone together” on the coaching staff.  If people want to talk about sending Sashi back to his formal role, that’s fine.  We can bring in a new GM or whatever, but I want our coaches and our systems to remain the same.  I don’t care if we DO go 0-16 this year, we know without a doubt that changing things up every year or two doesn’t work, and will never work.  We need to bring in an OC, or promote one from within, and we need to leave our coaches ALONE.  I’m not thrilled with our special teams in terms of FG’s and our return game, but other than that blocked punt against the Steelers, we’ve been ok. 

Our biggest issues on offense is our red zone failures and our lack of talent.  We’re starting to address our talent via the draft, and we’ll add some more players this year.  Coleman and Gordon are back.  I think we’ll draft an impact RB early, and I believe we’ll bring in a WR (Allen Robinson??).  Our OL will be decent to strong, and if we can fix our red zone deficiencies, all of the sudden this COULD become an offense that can score enough to win.  Am I sold on Kizer?  Absolutely not.  Is he trending UPWARDS?  I believe so.  Three out of Kizer’s last four games have been some of his best so far, and the one sore spot was against Jacksonville…who made a lot of QB’s look bad.  Look at Kizer’s first game against Cincy, and then look at Sunday’s game.  Kizer SHOULD’VE been 20-31 with 320 yards and 1 passing TD and one rushing TD for a rating of about 110.  Obviously drops happen, but the drops made by Coleman and Ricardo were just ridiculous. 

We have assets, draft picks, and young players that COULD make “the leap”.  If we bring in a new coach and new defensive coordinator, we’re “starting over”.  Our young players aren’t going to BUILD on what they’ve learned, they are basically going to start learning all over.  Keep everyone, add an OC, and let’s see if we can’t nail these draft picks.  Let’s make that big WR move in FA.  Let’s NOT give up touchdowns 80% of the time in the red zone.  What we DON’T want to do is blow it all up.  We take a QB number one in case Kizer doesn’t improve.  We sign a veteran QB in case they both suck or we have injuries.  We add to the secondary and stay the course.  All I know is, when I look back at Jared Goff last year, the guy was seriously overwhelmed.  Yeah, I know he got a new coach, but it was more than just that.  Do I expect Kizer to make that same kind of jump?  Not really, and that’s why we still draft a QB at #1 and sign a veteran (goodbye Cody and Kevin).  Keep adding more talent, stop blowing it all up. 

I can see the FO has a plan that is slowwlllyyyy developing.

I see nothing from Hue that makes me think he's ever going to be a good coach.

New systems CAN be a good thing... Id love to keep Williams but not at the risk of having to keep Hue

[Ghoolie]

5 hours ago, PoeticG said:

I gave Hue a lot of credit at the beginning of the season when he made Hogan the backup, the cat deserved it. He made a good call. But then again, he let the FO take Haden, he let them not resign Pryor. He cut the other Pryor, who is probably better than Peppers because he didn't back down and submit to his bitch butt. He's constantly saying nothing is given, but he's GIVEN the Kitanic an entire season worth of starts which was undeserved. He's constantly saying he won't make excuses, but makes them every interview, ie. we aren't built to take 2 shots into the endzone with 30 seconds on the clock! He says we aren't good enough to overcome mistakes and so on and so forth! That is the exact reason that we cannot- Because of Hue and his demeanor. He's a loser and we're gonna be losers until the day he's kicked into the lake. Good riddance, I won't lose any sleep, I know that much. 

 

I wanted black uncle fester fired after 1 quarter of the first 2016 preseason game. I was dead on. 

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/f1dd4267-a5b8-45cf-b7da-d9938e05c993

[hoorta]

4 hours ago, Mark O said:

Hue must seriously hate Hogan....unofficial depth chart is out and Hogan is still QB3 behind Cody "deer in the headlights" Kessler.      

Either that or Hogan must seriously suck donkey balls in practice because anyone watching Kessler can see that the hits the kid took last year clearly took a toll on the boy.  He was tough and gritty and spunky and all the other things we've loved about the other below average QB's we've had over the years (Frye, Dorsey, McCoy, etc, etc) but man....he looks scared to death when he's in the game this year.

Yeah, when Kessler had to come in when Kizer hurt his ribs- he actually make Deshone look good by comparison.

Plus teams have tape on Cody now, they know he's not mobile, and they blitz the hell out of us whenever he's in the game.

[PoeticG]

11 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Yeah, when Kessler had to come in when Kizer hurt his ribs- he actually make Deshone look good by comparison.

Plus teams have tape on Cody now, they know he's not mobile, and they blitz the hell out of us whenever he's in the game.

So why is Hogan 3rd string is what I want to know. I think Kessler goes and Hogan stays next year, they just want to be sure Kessler is done. Hogan came in the game and put points on the board... enough points that Kizer was edged out of the start. But know- nothing. 

[flyingfooldoug]

4 hours ago, PoeticG said:

So why is Hogan 3rd string is what I want to know. I think Kessler goes and Hogan stays next year, they just want to be sure Kessler is done. Hogan came in the game and put points on the board... enough points that Kizer was edged out of the start. But know- nothing. 

Hogan wasn't picked by this FO. It seems that automatically makes him expendable.

[Westside Steve]

13 minutes ago, flyingfooldoug said:

Hogan wasn't picked by this FO. It seems that automatically makes him expendable.

Unfortunately. Anyway I wonder why he's been inactive the last couple games?

WSS

[flyingfooldoug]

2 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Unfortunately. Anyway I wonder why he's been inactive the last couple games?

WSS

See above...lol

[Westside Steve]

4 minutes ago, flyingfooldoug said:

See above...lol

Maybe I missed it but I didn't see anything that gave a solid reason for making the guy inactive? I'm guessing that's the coach's decision not the front office right? If Jackson promoted him to second string and started him just as an FU to Sashi Brown...

WSS

[jiggins7919]

8 hours ago, thenew23 said:

I can see the FO has a plan that is slowwlllyyyy developing.

I see nothing from Hue that makes me think he's ever going to be a good coach.

New systems CAN be a good thing... Id love to keep Williams but not at the risk of having to keep Hue

I totally see what you're saying. Look at Jared Goff for example. Was his success a matter of development, or was it due to a new system? Maybe both? I guess my point is that I'm starting to see how we could be competitive, and right now our biggest challenge is scoring in the red zone and stopping teams in the red zone. People are giving our defense a tough time right now, and rightfully so, but losing Ogbah and Collins has REALLY hurt us....ESPECIALLY Ogbah who turned into a premier run stuffing end. You notice that virtually every run went opposite of Garrett last week? They tried Garrett once early and he devoured the RB. After that, they pretty much stuck to Nassib's side or off-tackle. 

Kizer's last 3 of 4 games were some of his best. Admittedly that's a low bar, but if he continues to trend upward, I don't want to break up any momentum by bringing in a new offensive head coach who will have his own system, new language, and lord knows what else to learn. That's an excellent way to screw up a QB and we've seen it countless times before, right? 

Now, it doesn't get easier for Kizer Sunday. Ingram and Bosa are going to make his life miserable, and I believe the Bolts are 2nd in the league in sacks. They don't quite have the "whole package" defense like Jacksonville, but they're pretty darn close. Point is, let's not be too quick to judge Kizer this game because the Bolts' defense has made several experienced qb's look bad or average. A better test of Kizer's development will be next week against Green Bay. Regardless, I don't expect Kizer to have a repeat of the Jags game. We obviously get Gordon back, the Chargers don't stop the run well, and Rivers WILL give us chances at interceptions. It's a little nerve-racking because Rivers probably had the best game of his LIFE last week, but hopefully we can get him off rhythm. 

It's hard not to look at our upcoming draft picks and be awe-struck. I just don't want the same front office MAKING those picks. Before the 2017 draft, many fans said it was our most important draft since 99. I'm ok with most of the picks EXCEPT for Peppers. I wondered where he'd play then, and I still wonder now. He has ZERO impact stats both in defense and special teams. Our front office didn't even sign a free safety to our effing roster who had ANY NFL experience! 

Keep the coaches. Keep the systems. Build up the talent pool and depth. Find players who can make plays in the RED ZONE. Use those first rounders and THREE 2nd rounders to bring in speed and power. I mean, we can possibly add FIVE new freaking starters this draft. Free Safety, WR, RB, OL, and possibly QB (I say we take Rosen #1 even IF Kizer continues to improve). When you factor in those draft picks with aggressive, smart free agency...we could jump from winless all the way to competitive VERY quickly. 

[flyingfooldoug]

17 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Maybe I missed it but I didn't see anything that gave a solid reason for making the guy inactive? I'm guessing that's the coach's decision not the front office right? If Jackson promoted him to second string and started him just as an FU to Sashi Brown...

WSS

Just a FO decision. If it's the HC, like it should be, or the GM Stosh, or the GM pudpuller or the GM ferry... But they all do answer directly to Jimmah....so it would be on him ultimately. What a friggin mess

[Westside Steve]

4 minutes ago, flyingfooldoug said:

Just a FO decision. If it's the HC, like it should be, or the GM Stosh, or the GM pudpuller or the GM ferry... But they all do answer directly to Jimmah....so it would be on him ultimately. What a friggin mess

Then I hate the front office more than I did before.

And it doesn't really matter if Hogan is worse than Kessler just the fact that these morons are telling the head coach who to play at the most important position on the team after they foisted a bust on him in Kizer.

And no wonder Jackson has been talking with Jimmy.

WSS

[flyingfooldoug]

3 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Then I hate the front office more than I did before.

And it doesn't really matter if Hogan is worse than Kessler just the fact that these morons are telling the head coach who to play at the most important position on the team after they foisted a bust on him in Kizer.

And no wonder Jackson has been talking with Jimmy.

WSS

Check out the trial going on in Tenn against flying J.  He's just a lowlife hillbilly crook. At least that's what the FO he hired at Flying J seems to think.  It's disturbing reading.

[flyingfooldoug]

The lawyers that are incriminating Jimmah and defending the execs are being paid by ...... Flying J. Not to mention the 170 some million paid in fines and restitution ordered by the courts. The family most likely forced him to sell the business to Buffet before Jimmah ran it broke. IMHO anyway after reading all that crap

[Westside Steve]

16 minutes ago, flyingfooldoug said:

Check out the trial going on in Tenn against flying J.  He's just a lowlife hillbilly crook. At least that's what the FO he hired at Flying J seems to think.  It's disturbing reading.

Lol

0 is the number of fuks I give abad the Flying J problems.

WSS

[flyingfooldoug]

4 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Lol

0 is the number of fuks I give abad the Flying J problems.

WSS

I understand that. I just wanted more insight on the owner. This could well be the last season he runs the team

[Westside Steve]

8 minutes ago, flyingfooldoug said:

I understand that. I just wanted more insight on the owner. This could well be the last season he runs the team

And I understand that. As long as we're understanding stuff. Hoping he can dodge these Mickey Mouse accusations or has the good sense to sell to somebody who might have a better grip on it. Still as far as that goes who the hell knows? Within a team you can go back a few years before they get successful and probably have no idea whether or not the front office and coaching staff that has been put in place is going to be a winner in the future.

WSS

[Westside Steve]

Maybe some of the guys that keep calling for this will get lucky and Bernie Kosar will take that eight hundred bucks he still has in the bank and put together a Consortium.

WSS

[flyingfooldoug]

6 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Maybe some of the guys that keep calling for this will get lucky and Bernie Kosar will take that eight hundred bucks he still has in the bank and put together a Consortium.

WSS

He has at least a grand