Isn't it Ironic

[The Gipper]

To carry out an Alannis Morrisette tune:    Isn't it Ironic.....that  the QBs that so many were upset over the Browns passing on are now both on IR...and done for the season:

DeShaun Watson.....aufed.

Carson Wentz....aufed.  

Expectations that they will recover and be good?  Probably....unless Watson turns into RGIV and Wentz becomes a flash in the pan.  

Nevertheless....I still think this team would be ahead if they had followed my suggestion:   take Joey Bosa at #2 last year...and Trubisky this year.

[Ghoolie]

1 minute ago, The Gipper said:

To carry out an Alannis Morrisette tune:    Isn't it Ironic.....that  the QBs that so many were upset over the Browns passing on are now both on IR...and done for the season:

DeShaun Watson.....aufed.

Carson Wentz....aufed.  

Expectations that they will recover and be good?  Probably....unless Watson turns into RGIV and Wentz becomes a flash in the pan.  

Nevertheless....I still think this team would be ahead if they had followed my suggestion:   take Joey Bosa at #2 last year...and Trubisky this year.

100% agreement. Bosa is 100 times the player faggot Myles Garrett is.

[cdl15]

Only true difference between Trubisky and Kiser i see is where they were drafted. Other than that Trubisky situation is much much better as far as being protected. If browns drafted Mitchy and started day 1 there would be rumblings of of the B word

[The Gipper]

2 minutes ago, cdl15 said:

Only true difference between Trubisky and Kiser i see is where they were drafted. Other than that Trubisky situation is much much better as far as being protected. If browns drafted Mitchy and started day 1 there would be rumblings of of the B word

Oh, I am sure there would have been struggles.   But do you think he would have constantly held on to the ball....and get strip sacked every game....constantly throw into double/triple teams at critical times.  Have the worst interception record in the league (he has more than double the Ints. as MT, no?). 

Anyway...I didn''t really mean for this thread to be a second guess....even though I know I went there.  I am just saying how ironic that the two QBs that are being bemoaned for the Browns passing them over  are now out for the year.

[stillmotion]

Maybe Sashi knew all along and it was a part of "the process".

We may never know

[Nero]

14 minutes ago, stillmotion said:

Maybe Sashi knew all along and it was a part of "the process".

We may never know

In some posts about a week or two ago I talked about the logic I suspect was behind not drafting a QB until this year 3 draft.

Carson Wentz is great, though. 

[jrb12711]

and in true Alannis fashion, this is not ironic at all- just unfortunate for those guys. Tom Brady tore his ACL and he's still doing pretty good there in NE, it's a very recoverable injury nowadays.

[cdl15]

21 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Oh, I am sure there would have been struggles.   But do you think he would have constantly held on to the ball....and get strip sacked every game....constantly throw into double/triple teams at critical times.  Have the worst interception record in the league (he has more than double the Ints. as MT, no?). 

Anyway...I didn''t really mean for this thread to be a second guess....even though I know I went there.  I am just saying how ironic that the two QBs that are being bemoaned for the Browns passing them over  are now out for the year.

He also has 150 more pass attempts. And 4 less games. Take Kiser's 1st 4 games outta the equation.  let's be real.  No way in hell Kiser should have started.

 

But yea seeing how Kiser has only been sacked 6 more times than Trub. (Kiser 7 sacks in 1st game alone) I'd say he is easily holding on to the ball way to long. (Like every rookie ever) same amount of fumbles (bears recovered 2 more tho). 

Like I said you look at the two guys from when Trubisky took over and their stats are very very similar. And Kiser is asked to carry much much more load than Trubisky is.

[cdl15]

Just find it ironic that the Browns fans are giving up on the most talented quarterback they've had since Tim Couch after only 13 games. Yet we had to suffer through multiple seasons of Colt McCoy Johnny Manziel Brandon Weeden Charlie Frye and Brady Quinn. And Kiser's way more talented than all of them, less drama, and harder worker.

[D Bone]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

 Joey Bosa at #2 last year...and Trubisky this year.

Hard to argue this..... I would take Bosa over Courtney Brown v2.0 all day, every day - not even close........ Hell, I'd take that high motor younger Watt brother in Pukesburgh over the fragile v2.0.

As for the QBs, I haven't seen any of Trubisky this year, outside a few highlight clips every now and then, but I was pleasantly surprised yesterday with Kizer's play and I don't know how much of an upgrade a QB swap of those two would be - if any...... I don't think either one is the long term QB of the future though, so I guess it's a push of two long term backup QBs.

 

[stillmotion]

29 minutes ago, cdl15 said:

And Kiser's way more talented than all of them

That's arguable.....

[The Gipper]

53 minutes ago, cdl15 said:

He also has 150 more pass attempts. And 4 less games. Take Kiser's 1st 4 games outta the equation.  let's be real.  No way in hell Kiser should have started.

 

But yea seeing how Kiser has only been sacked 6 more times than Trub. (Kiser 7 sacks in 1st game alone) I'd say he is easily holding on to the ball way to long. (Like every rookie ever) same amount of fumbles (bears recovered 2 more tho). 

Like I said you look at the two guys from when Trubisky took over and their stats are very very similar. And Kiser is asked to carry much much more load than Trubisky is.

I think the Browns do have a much better OL than the Bears...that is part of it.

And just how is Kizer asked to carry a bigger load?   Browns RBs are better than Bears, their receivers are no better...at all.   And like I said...the Browns have a better OL. 

So...just how is Kizer asked to do more....(other than the fact that he plays for Hue....who constantly puts him a bad position due to his play calling)?

[dawg2fan]

1 hour ago, cdl15 said:

Just find it ironic that the Browns fans are giving up on the most talented quarterback they've had since Tim Couch after only 13 games. Yet we had to suffer through multiple seasons of Colt McCoy Johnny Manziel Brandon Weeden Charlie Frye and Brady Quinn. And Kiser's way more talented than all of them, less drama, and harder worker.

All I can do is sit here, read, and agree with every word you type.  I've been preaching this for so long.  I guess that makes two of us arguing for Kizer, he's a rookie and needs time.  I can promise you he will learn a ton next year.  Heck, Roethlisberger didn't start for the Steelers his 1st year.  We know he's not Ben, but he might end up being not far off.

[The Gipper]

3 minutes ago, dawg2fan said:

All I can do is sit here, read, and agree with every word you type.  I've been preaching this for so long.  I guess that makes two of us arguing for Kizer, he's a rookie and needs time.  I can promise you he will learn a ton next year.  Heck, Roethlisberger didn't start for the Steelers his 1st year.  We know he's not Ben, but he might end up being not far off.

Ah...yes, BR did start his first year.   He went 13-0 as a starter.

Kizer, ergo, apparently going to be the anti-Roethlisberger.  He will go 0 and whatever by the time the season is done.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00.htm

[Send in the Clowns]

2 hours ago, The Gipper said:

To carry out an Alannis Morrisette tune:    Isn't it Ironic.....that  the QBs that so many were upset over the Browns passing on are now both on IR...and done for the season:

DeShaun Watson.....aufed.

Carson Wentz....aufed.  

Expectations that they will recover and be good?  Probably....unless Watson turns into RGIV and Wentz becomes a flash in the pan.  

Nevertheless....I still think this team would be ahead if they had followed my suggestion:   take Joey Bosa at #2 last year...and Trubisky this year.

Trubisky OK but no Wentz. Do u think if the Browns had drafted a QB he would have remained healthy?  LOL!  This is like the Tim Couch era but worse.   Dorsey needs to further solidify the OL this off season and draft an OL in the first two rounds  in 2018.  Need to make an attempt to protect the new QB, Rosen from UCLA.

[Send in the Clowns]

2 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Ah...yes, BR did start his first year.   He went 13-0 as a starter.

Kizer, ergo, apparently going to be the anti-Roethlisberger.  He will go 0 and whatever by the time the season is done.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00.htm

Kizer is a loser.  Yes, he is athletic, but has no feel at all for the game.  None.  No touch on the ball either.   Draft a real QB like Rosen or Darnold or grab one via trade or FA.  Horrible miss by the Browns not to get Garrapolo.  Just plain stupid. 

[The Gipper]

1 minute ago, Send in the Clowns said:

Trubisky OK but no Wentz. Do u think if the Browns had drafted a QB he would have remained healthy?  LOL!  This is like the Tim Couch era but worse.   Dorsey needs to further solidify the OL this off season and draft an OL in the first two rounds  in 2018.  Need to make an attempt to protect the new QB, Rosen from UCLA.

So....whomever decided to give you your avatar sent in in response to it?

The OL is the furthest thing from the major issue on this team.

[Send in the Clowns]

38 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

I think the Browns do have a much better OL than the Bears...that is part of it.

And just how is Kizer asked to carry a bigger load?   Browns RBs are better than Bears, their receivers are no better...at all.   And like I said...the Browns have a better OL. 

So...just how is Kizer asked to do more....(other than the fact that he plays for Hue....who constantly puts him a bad position due to his play calling)?

Say what????!!! Browns Crowell a better RB than Howard of the Bears?  No, no, no!!!!

[The Gipper]

Just now, Send in the Clowns said:

Say what????!!! Browns Crowell a better RB than Howard of the Bears?  No, no, no!!!!

No worse.  It ain't like you got the second coming of Walter Payton or Gale Sayers playing there.

[Send in the Clowns]

Just now, The Gipper said:

So....whomever decided to give you your avatar sent in in response to it?

The OL is the furthest thing from the major issue on this team.

Disagree,  Browns have a lot of work to do on the OL.   RT is a joke, LG has regressed.  And Thomas is old and now showing he can be injured and on IR.  Draft OL in rounds 1 or 2 and another another in FA. 

[Send in the Clowns]

Just now, The Gipper said:

No worse.  It ain't like you got the second coming of Walter Payton or Gale Sayers playing there.

No offense, but Howard is one of the best 5 RBs in the NL.  Crowell closer to the middle, maybe around 10-11th best plus he has an attitude problem in my book .   I think most experts would agree. 

[Send in the Clowns]

4 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

So....whomever decided to give you your avatar sent in in response to it?

The OL is the furthest thing from the major issue on this team.

You sound like S. Brown.  But not like Dorsey.  You watch .. 

[hish747]

29 minutes ago, Send in the Clowns said:

Kizer is a loser.  Yes, he is athletic, but has no feel at all for the game.  None.  No touch on the ball either.   Draft a real QB like Rosen or Darnold or grab one via trade or FA.  Horrible miss by the Browns not to get Garrapolo.  Just plain stupid. 

I would've liked to get Jimmy G too, but I don't think the Browns were a consideration since we didn't have Brian Hoyer to give to the Pats.

[SD_Tom]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

I think the Browns do have a much better OL than the Bears...that is part of it.

And just how is Kizer asked to carry a bigger load?   Browns RBs are better than Bears, their receivers are no better...at all.   And like I said...the Browns have a better OL. 

So...just how is Kizer asked to do more....(other than the fact that he plays for Hue....who constantly puts him a bad position due to his play calling)?

Compare the pass attempts per game between the two of them.  John fox did not a way better job of taking pressure off the rookie by relying on his running game.  Clueless Jackson had us running it 10-15 a game total while throwing it almost every play. 

He did Kizer no favors at all

[TopDawg31]

Kizer can not play under duress , Mike Mayock said this very thing after he was drafted and Kizer is proving him to be 100% spot on.

[Mark O]

7 minutes ago, TopDawg31 said:

Kizer can not play under duress , Mike Mayock said this very thing after he was drafted and Kizer is proving him to be 100% spot on.

Mayock is pretty damn good at his analysis as a draft guy as well.   But that is also something that can be learned I would think.   He should never have been starting this year but he's the best of the guys we have and besides that, he has, by far, the highest ceiling of the 3 we have.  So he got thrust into a shitty situation and he's worked hard and gotten better.  

[Send in the Clowns]

11 minutes ago, TopDawg31 said:

Kizer can not play under duress , Mike Mayock said this very thing after he was drafted and Kizer is proving him to be 100% spot on.

BINGO!  Kizer is an African-American Brandon Weeden with more foot speed. 

[Send in the Clowns]

3 minutes ago, Mark O said:

Mayock is pretty damn good at his analysis as a draft guy as well.   But that is also something that can be learned I would think.   He should never have been starting this year but he's the best of the guys we have and besides that, he has, by far, the highest ceiling of the 3 we have.  So he got thrust into a shitty situation and he's worked hard and gotten better.  

What's disturbing you see the same characteristics about Kizer in the pros as at Notre Dame.    No feel for the game at all.  He'll never have touch on the ball for any kind of passes.

[Send in the Clowns]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

No worse.  It ain't like you got the second coming of Walter Payton or Gale Sayers playing there.

Wow.  Howard much better than Crowell.  Would love to see a poll taken of NFL GMs and sportswriters on that.  

[Mark O]

1 minute ago, Send in the Clowns said:

What's disturbing you see the same characteristics about Kizer in the pros as at Notre Dame.    No feel for the game at all.  He'll never have touch on the ball for any kind of passes.

Never have touch on any of his passes?   That's total bullshit because he has thrown some very nice passes with touch just this past weekend and the weekend before.   The one that he clearly can't throw is any kind of fade or back corner of the end zone pass, but I'd also think that can be learned with hard work in the offseason.    His touch has improved as the season has gone on.