Dorsey lays it out there.....

[The Gipper]

18 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Dorsey's comments today are on par with DePodesta's "We didn't have Wentz as a top 20 QB" quote as stupid things you can think but should never publicly say because they can come back and bite you right on the butt.

Or not.....because there WILL likely be a major turnover next year.

How many draft picks do the Browns have next year?   Do you not think that Dorsey is going to use those draft picks to replace a lot of the players that this regime has picked up?

He will favor HIS guys over the guys that previous regimes have brought in....if he thinks he can get equal or better talent.   It has already started with Britt and Tregs  aufed.   You can bet that the likes of Ricardo Louis and Higgins will be on shaky ground.   And a bushel full of new DBs could be coming our way.

Getting the detritus off this team in favor of players that Dorsey thinks can be better WILL be a major stepping stone for this team...if he does it right.

[The Gipper]

15 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

Noll fired everyone. BIG difference. You think anyone is going to want to play in Cleveland now? For a jackoff that will throw THEM off the bus when he has to make himself look good again? Dorsey couldn't hold Noll's nut sweat.

Yes, I think many will want to come to play in Cleveland now.  Because they will pay them.  Above all else, these players play for their paychecks.

To think otherwise is naive.

[The Gipper]

13 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Ah, yes - because the opposite of not talking like a douche is "powdering the tushy".   

Are you saying that you are a douche? 

Far be it for me to argue with your opinion of yourself.

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Dorsey was said to have massive "communication" issues while at KC.

Yet here we are and the man is already having to explain the meaning behind his words 2 weeks into the job.    Doesn't appear as if much has change.       Pretty simple, some things don't need to be Shmucking said.  Just go about your business and handle it behind the scenes.   The lot of you that think this is a good move because "Shmuck feelings" really don't seem to grasp that the man has to exercise a modicum of professionalism in this role.    This is an instance he failed miserably at that.   

I disagree.....I think he communicated very well what was on his mind....and that part of being in the job he has is to communicate his feelings about it...to the public and to his team.

This team is 1-27.  He communicated that that is not tolerable to an organization he is a part of.  He communicated that if you as a player are not good enough to play winning football you will be  gone.   He communicated that they are all making a 3 game audition for their jobs.

And what is professionalism? Doing thing right and openly.  That is professionalism. 

He should not be sorry to anyone because the truth hurts.

[calfoxwc]

You saying you never loved the FO under Sashi’s direction is a bald-faced lie. And you said that ultimately passing on Wentz to build the rest of the team was the right move. Many times. But now you’re gonna act like it was some nail in the coffin for you. Ok.  warped

*********************************************************************

    bs. I was hoping it would be a new direction of talent - but it showed up a bit in the draft, not FA. I never loved sashi,stfu - just the idea that they would start drafting smarter. After the desperation move of the fa stupid move like brit, and not happy with the coleman draft pick, I would never have done those, would never have traded down and forget about Wentz... after the fact, it makes sense to give their moves a chance for the best. After leaving brit on the roster, which should not have been happening - sashi proved hiimself to be too arrogant to admit a mistake. Every mock draft I did had Wentz as our qb with our original first pick. I do understand that they decided that they needed more players that just a qb. But I wanted Wentz. Ask Canton Mike and Flugels - I talked about it all the time. You need to stop initiating your personal bitching bs. You are reminding me of a certain birdbrain that does the same thing exactly elsewhere.

[calfoxwc]

The plain truth is, britt was a cancer to the rest of the team - it undermined the attitude of the guys who really

want to start winning. he did not care at all. I suppose he laughed all the way to the bank - big money guaranteed,

and sandbagged on the field to get cut. something like that.

[jrb12711]

1 hour ago, blitzz2 said:

I would rather have a Guy that says it out in the open then players finding out behind closed doors as a "rumor". If Dorsey keeps it real, then good for him. And if the players take it as a slight, shame on them. Because if the shoe fits, you will know. And if like someone said in a earlier post "I would rather have 22 players playing their butt off and losing" Then another 30 or so playing Butt hurt because some no nonsense GM said something that many take as a blanket statement. He wants football players, and if your not here to play Cleveland football, there's the door, regardless of who drafted you. 

What you've described is literally what every GM of every sports organization of any sport ever wants. every GM wants players who can, ya know, play well and buy into their system.

There's a crazy phrase out there called "lead by example". Ozzie Newsome doesn't make comments like this and there's a reason why. He's as no-nonsense as it gets, but amazingly he doesn't make douchey comments to the media. I also guarantee you he says what he needs to in the open, but not when the camera is in his face. There's a clear difference in handling your business behind closed doors and having a "look at me" problem. 

[calfoxwc]

Ozzie Newsome never had need to make comments like this. I think we've had enough of watered-down diplomatic

blah-speak babbling to last us a lifetime. If Dorsey DIDN'T say anything plain out - he'd get ripped with all sorts of

ulterior motive/conspiracy in the fo rumors and propaganda... and this won't stop until they start winning again.

[tiamat63]

3 hours ago, The Gipper said:

I disagree.....I think he communicated very well what was on his mind....and that part of being in the job he has is to communicate his feelings about it...to the public and to his team.

His words are already requiring to be paraphrased and a "I said X, but I meant Y"...   so, no - he has not communicated it correctly.  

And what is professionalism? Doing thing right and openly.  That is professionalism. 

And in this case doing the right thing would be either phrasing it better, or shutting your Shmucking mouth.    Unless you just roll into work and tell people like it is brashly?  In which case I'll gladly call you a liar.  

 

 

[Harry Buffalo]

This has been talked about none stop for 2 days and here are my thoughts. He shouldn't have said it, but I think he wasn't shitting on the whole roster. What I think he really ment was the previous front office didn't bring in impact players. They got solid peices, guys who can and will be impact players, but after two years they let anyone who could be considered an impact player walk (Outside of Joe Thomas) and only brought one in (Garrett). Brown lost 2 impact players on the line, 1 in the secondary, and arguably one at WR. 

[Unsympathetic]

I agree with everything DBN said in this article.

Shmuck Dorsey and the bizarro entitled attitude this statement reflects.

Once you agree to be the GM, they're all your players - and there's quite a few damn good ones.  I want to re-sign BBC, and statements like this won't help.

[calfoxwc]

36 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

I agree with everything DBN said in this article.

Shmuck Dorsey and the bizarro entitled attitude this statement reflects.

Once you agree to be the GM, they're all your players - and there's quite a few damn good ones.  I want to re-sign BBC, and statements like this won't help.

The football players know who he was talking about. To figure that he was talking about all the good players the BrownsDO have is dumb. Anybody really think he's talking about Joe Thomas? Danny Shelton?

He's talking about the hit or miss...the misses are really dumb choices to add to the team. Gordon was never a football player, Manziel was not a football player, britt was not a football player...and Louis, wr, doesn't seem like one. and the long list of qb's...

remember, he is talking about the NFL. The bigtime, the big playbooks, the big responsibility, the serious practices, the serious learning,the longer season...etc etc etc.

I mean, from the same link:

"Chris Pokorny: “On Thursday, in an attempt to defend Hue Jackson, John Dorsey said that 'the guys who were here before and that system did not get real [football] players.' It stirred up the Browns fandom, with some being drawn in and agreeing with him (including Browns RB Isaiah Crowell), while others called it a dumb statement. "

CROWELL AGREED WITH what he said. The players know who he was talking about. Why change a losing culture by pretending that all the draft picks were great, and all the fa signings were great? come on now.

  If Dorsey had said more specifically - "the previous gm brought some players that were not really NFL players, they just wanted a paycheck to retire on or move from, guaranteed money" that would have been criticized bigly.

[Unsympathetic]

If John Dorsey was a such a football guy he should know you don’t alienate half your locker room on day 1..

To suggest that Sashi didn’t bring in any "real football players," which is the plain language of what he said - is completely ridiculous.

Listen through to the final phrase in the SI clip.. "working in tandem" -- sounds like they've been reading Tour's comments.

[calfoxwc]

but he didn't say "never brought any football players" that is just nonsense. Could he have phrased it

differently? I suppose, but again, no matter how he said it, there are those who will read into it negatively.

[Orion]

On 12/14/2017 at 10:15 PM, Ghoolie said:

Now, it's okay for ME to accurately point out that Myles Garrett and Coleman were bust picks ( this is what Dorsey is saying), but for the GM to slam his own players? WTF kind of jackoff is he?

....and here we get someone in charge that feels the way you do on the talent of the drafted players...and you hate him.   There just is no pleasing you.

[Babernakle]

On 12/14/2017 at 2:31 PM, calfoxwc said:

he also has a chance to draft guys who fit the culture of the locker room. Britt was easy, and yes, it's fact - sashi didn't get players who were FOOTBALL players all too often. Good think he wasn't entirely responsible for draft picks. I'm more excited about draft only because of Dorsey. Hue's daughter was upset about the moves that didn't help the Browns be able to win...   The other mistake sashi made was getting rid of veteran leadership at certain positions. And keeping Britt on the roster -seriously, sashi? after all that contract, he stays to continue to show he couldn't give a rats arse about playing football?

   sashi brown just didn't know what he was doing - it showed in serveral ways.

And just because alllllll the pundits have darnold and rosen at the top of the heap - they didn't the same thing with ryan leaf. As much as I was a huge Wentz fan, I wasn't a big fan of Goff. But I would draft Goff if my team needed a qb, whereas I would not be drafting rosen. Darnold is kinda of iffy with me - I reckon I started Camp Allen - we'll see how it all goes later on.

Darnold is the guy.  That kid has already proven he can carry a team.  He's also thick enough to take some hits and mobile enough to get out of trouble.  He can throw guys open and his accurate.  He is a bit of a gun slinger but he can play.  The only challenge is convincing him Cleveland is the place for him. 

[Dutch Oven]

13 minutes ago, Babernakle said:

Darnold is the guy.  That kid has already proven he can carry a team.  He's also thick enough to take some hits and mobile enough to get out of trouble.  He can throw guys open and his accurate.  He is a bit of a gun slinger but he can play.  The only challenge is convincing him Cleveland is the place for him. 

The problem IMO with Darnold is that he really should go back to school for another season. He regressed this season and made a lot of turnovers. When he played vs UCLA, Darnold looked overmatched by Rosen. Herbstreit frankly came out at the end of the game and said that Rosen seemed far more advanced at this point than Darnold.

[TexasAg1969]

36 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

The problem IMO with Darnold is that he really should go back to school for another season. He regressed this season and made a lot of turnovers. When he played vs UCLA, Darnold looked overmatched by Rosen. Herbstreit frankly came out at the end of the game and said that Rosen seemed far more advanced at this point than Darnold.

And he was correct.

[Ghoolie]

1 hour ago, Orion said:

....and here we get someone in charge that feels the way you do on the talent of the drafted players...and you hate him.   There just is no pleasing you.

Sure there is. Just because he agrees with me doesn't mean I will compromise my principles. Please, let me elaborate. If I was in charge of the Browns personnel, there are a lot of guys I would cut, and seek to trade. Joe Thomas, Myels Garret, Coleman and Kizer for sure would be long gone. HOWEVER................. I would not do it disrespectfully. 

I can cuss them in here, but on the outside? No man has the right to ruin another man's livelihood with his authority and opinion. Cut the players, trade them; execute your carnage and fill the team with what you believe are good players. But you don't insult these men, the entire team. It isn't just classless, but it is self-deprecating. Surely you have to see that some players would now not want to come to Cleveland for fear of being publicly ridiculed by Dorsey? Blasting the entire team when they lose or play badly? Sure, that's fair game. But this? No, no, no, this is not inline with my beliefs.

What makes matters worse, is it seems that Dorsey is casting these condemnations for the purpose of pumping the coach up. Don't you find this classless? At least, odd and not professional? And think of this, no man on earth, not even me, can predict who will be a good player or not. What has Dorsey done to himself if, say, he fills the team with his guys, keeps Hue, and then the team still sucks? 

Look bro, the only ones that think Kizer, Garrett, Coleman, et. al are good players are the homers, many of whom post here. ANyone with eyes knows that Sashi has really fukcked up our #1 picks. But you don't call out the guys you brought here. Attacking Sashi? I did it from day one. I thought he was a joke when he was hired, but attacking him now that he is gone? Classless.

Anyone who knows human behavior looks at this and can read between the lines. Dorsey took himself a nice, fat job, and part of the price he paid was to get behind Haslam and support Hue for another year. Sorry man, but this is NOT a guy who is his own man. If he keeps Hue, he has hedged his bets and decided to kiss the coaches butt and hang on as long as he can, and maybe win in spite of it.

Not a good recipe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Babernakle]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

The problem IMO with Darnold is that he really should go back to school for another season. He regressed this season and made a lot of turnovers. When he played vs UCLA, Darnold looked overmatched by Rosen. Herbstreit frankly came out at the end of the game and said that Rosen seemed far more advanced at this point than Darnold.

Darnold did regress his line was Sheet and hurt all season despite that he won them a lot of games on his arm alone 

[wargograw]

10 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

You saying you never loved the FO under Sashi’s direction is a bald-faced lie. And you said that ultimately passing on Wentz to build the rest of the team was the right move. Many times. But now you’re gonna act like it was some nail in the coffin for you. Ok.  warped

*********************************************************************

    bs. I was hoping it would be a new direction of talent - but it showed up a bit in the draft, not FA. I never loved sashi,stfu - just the idea that they would start drafting smarter. After the desperation move of the fa stupid move like brit, and not happy with the coleman draft pick, I would never have done those, would never have traded down and forget about Wentz... after the fact, it makes sense to give their moves a chance for the best. After leaving brit on the roster, which should not have been happening - sashi proved hiimself to be too arrogant to admit a mistake. Every mock draft I did had Wentz as our qb with our original first pick. I do understand that they decided that they needed more players that just a qb. But I wanted Wentz. Ask Canton Mike and Flugels - I talked about it all the time. You need to stop initiating your personal bitching bs. You are reminding me of a certain birdbrain that does the same thing exactly elsewhere.

Let's see.

"The biggest problem with the Browns is the kind of players they have drafted over the years. Just stupid. With the new

very SMART criteria for drafting players - they would never have drafted the losers that were added to the team in the past.

Gilbert? HELL NO. He does not fit. I can go on and on about it, but you can't build a football team on athletically talented

losers - weak and shifting sands."

"We finally have guys who love football

being brought into the fold and all you wanna do is complain about the past. That was just my advice - look at the changes

in the WAY this team is being built."

"Josh Cribbs talked about it in the past - some guys didn't care, some guys were prima donnas that had no self-discipline,

didn't care about winning, etc. You know HE was one of the ones who did. That is why the Browns couldn't get off the ground.

and that the Browns now have a fresh, new excellent manner they are operating in...especially the draft.."

"Goshsies, you annoyed by me bringing up the past, to show the different in approach to the draft, etc?"

 

Oh and lookie what I said in that thread. Same thing I'm saying now...

"[Cal]'s right about Mud's negativity.

Mud's right about Cal's delusion.

 

Opposite sides of the same coin really."

Back to you....

" I see a dramatic turnaround in....the FO."

"WRONG. Looks to me like they "shied away" from taking problem kids except twice (which was acceptable because it was in later rounds), coleman was not a problem kid."

"But this FO and coaches would NEVER have drafted

jm and gilbert and gordon...etc. You don't take stupid chances in the first three or four rounds when you need them

to make a difference in your football team."

 

And this is ALL just from ONE THREAD. That you were merely "hoping" it would be a different and not actually saying it was is, again, a bald-faced lie.

6 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

I agree with everything DBN said in this article.

Shmuck Dorsey and the bizarro entitled attitude this statement reflects.

Once you agree to be the GM, they're all your players - and there's quite a few damn good ones.  I want to re-sign BBC, and statements like this won't help.

"On top of it being factually incorrect, it served no purpose other than to placate the ‘1-28!’ crowd"

So those idiots aren't just here? Too bad.

"The Browns’ most important off-season in years is coming up and we have an incompetent coach and a moron GM. Awesome.”

Lol.

"To me the bigger problem here is the pattern of Jackson (multiple times) and now Dorsey publicly calling their players garbage. That's not something good leaders do. I'm not sure if it made national headlines, but earlier this year, new UT coach Tom Herman said something like he couldn't just ‘sprinkle fairy dust’ on the team and make them better. He rightly got blasted for it, and this feels very similar. Whether or not the statement is true is basically irrelevant. It's just kind of classless to say something like that in the media. And this isn't just a PR thing, it might actually make it harder to attract players here. Apparently agents are already saying behind the scenes that they will steer their clients away from this environment, which looks pretty toxic. But I think what is most troubling about this is that it confirms a lot of the rumors about why Dorsey was fired. It was strange that a guy who seemed to be doing a decent job was let go, but people were saying he was hard to work with (read as: he's kind of an butt) and often changed the plan everyone had agreed on at the last minute. That's not a good long term strategy for running a football team."

"If you're a current young player on this roster, how does Dorsey's comment make you feel? If you're Brian Boddy-Calhoun, set to be an RFA this spring, do you want to sign with the Browns? If you're Danny Shelton or Duke Johnson, coming toward the end of your rookie deal, do you want to sign a contract with a man who said you're not a ‘real football player?’"

"Dorsey's comments read like a caricature of who we all fear the Browns would hire as GM in response to a failed analytics experience. The problem in this case is, most of us aren't convinced that the analytics experiment failed. It's like a rival political party took office, and this election season the LolBrownz faction won the chief executive position - now the question is, as it always has been, can he deliver on his campaign promises?"

"It's like a new generation of excuse. [Herman] said, 'I can't rub pixie dust on this thing.' He got a dose of reality. Maryland just scored 51 points on you. [...] Players read that [...]That's like, when I got here, everybody wanted me to say Jim Tressel left the cupboard bare. If I heard any assistant coach [say that], they'd be gone. You're done. Those are your players. I hear TV guys [say], 'Wait until they get their own players in there.' They're our players. What do you mean 'their players?' The minute you sign a contract, they're your players. You didn't choose me, I chose you. You're mine, absolutely. I love you, and I'm going to kick the Sheet out of you, and we're going to do it right …[Blaming players] drives me insane."

[Ghoolie]

13 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Yes, I think many will want to come to play in Cleveland now.  Because they will pay them.  Above all else, these players play for their paychecks.

To think otherwise is naive.

Generalizations are the sign of a woman trying to win her point. Players play for a lot of different reasons. Money is not the most driving issue. Some guys don't know anything else and would play for peanuts.

[nickers]

I have no problem with anything Dorsey said.. Quit coddling these losers.. Jesus!

[The Gipper]

7 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

Generalizations are the sign of a woman trying to win her point. Players play for a lot of different reasons. Money is not the most driving issue. Some guys don't know anything else and would play for peanuts.

So...as I said...to believe otherwise would be naive....and youhave  proven to be naive.

[Tour2ma]

 

On 12/14/2017 at 6:05 PM, PoeticG said:

Kizer was not ready and Hogan was making him look over his shoulder.

LMAO....

On 12/15/2017 at 7:35 AM, calfoxwc said:

What Dorsey said does NOT apply to every single player in the locker room.

True... Sashi & Co were only responsible for about half the locker room.

On 12/15/2017 at 10:30 AM, tiamat63 said:

Dorsey was said to have massive "communication" issues while at KC.

Yes he did... but in KC those were issues around not saying enough.

It's discouraging that his KC style may be preferable.

[Orion]

16 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

If I was in charge of the Browns personnel, there are a lot of guys I would cut, and seek to trade. Joe Thomas, Myels Garret, Coleman and Kizer for sure would be long gone.

.....bbbbbbut that's just what Sashi did!  He came in and let starters and pro bowlers walk.   So you would keep us winning zero games each year.   - No thanks, you can stay a cranky fan and not our GM.

[calfoxwc]

And this is ALL just from ONE THREAD. That you were merely "hoping" it would be a different and not actually saying it was is, again, a bald-faced lie. warped

********************************

this is making you cry or what? yes, I said I can see a turnaround...except sashi still signed britt which was a colossal mistake.

what is wrong with you? How is "I can see a turnaround" that didn't happen like I hoped...

you are just wasting time on the board, bitching about nothing, again. I read what I posted, it doesn't contradict

how I feel now at all. "der"