No Bible study in the home??

[ballpeen]

http://www.10news.com/news/19562217/detail.html

 

 

SAN DIEGO -- A local pastor and his wife claim they were interrogated by a San Diego County official, who then threatened them with escalating fines if they continued to hold bible studies in their home, 10News reported.

Attorney Dean Broyles of The Western Center For Law & Policy was shocked with what happened to the pastor and his wife.

Broyles said, "The county asked, 'Do you have a regular meeting in your home?' She said, 'Yes.' 'Do you say amen?' 'Yes.' 'Do you pray?' 'Yes.' 'Do you say praise the Lord?' 'Yes.'"

 

The county employee notified the couple that the small bible study, with an average of 15 people attending, was in violation of county regulations, according to Broyles.

Broyles said a few days later the couple received a written warning that listed "unlawful use of land" and told them to "stop religious assembly or apply for a major use permit" -- a process that could cost tens of thousands of dollars.

 

"For churches and religious assemblies there's big parking concerns, there's environmental impact concerns when you have hundreds or thousands of people gathering. But this is a different situation, and we believe that the application of the religious assembly principles to this bible study is certainly misplaced," said Broyles.

 

News of the case has rapidly spread across Internet blogs and has spurred various reactions.

Broyles said his clients have asked to stay anonymous until they give the county a demand letter that states by enforcing this regulation the county is violating their First Amendment right to freely exercise their religion.

 

Broyles also said this case has broader implications.

"If the county thinks they can shut down groups of 10 or 15 Christians meeting in a home, what about people who meet regularly at home for poker night? What about people who meet for Tupperware parties? What about people who are meeting to watch baseball games on a regular basis and support the Chargers?" said Broyles.

 

Broyles and his clients plant to give the county their demand letter this week.

If the county refuses to release the pastor and his wife from obtaining the permit, they will consider a lawsuit in federal court.

 

................................................................................

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California is a wreck.

[Mr. T]

Its a shame that any government local, state or federal would harass anyone over religion.

 

What is this country coming to?

 

People settled here for freedom of religion, but there are many liberals who dont want to be told that they are living in the wrong out of fear of having self guilt.

[ballpeen]

Sorry Peen,

You get enough cars parking in the street so I cant get in my driveway,somethings gotta give.

Plent of churches would welcome the use of there church to get jiggy with it all they want but not in a residential neighborhood.

 

It said nothing about blocking driveways...that is what you say.

 

If I want to have 10-15 friends over once a week, there is nothing wrong with that

 

[calfoxwc]

Sorry Dan, but you invented the cars thing.

 

 

I suppose all birthday parties, 4th of July parties, wedding receptions,

 

pool parties are out, too.

 

So goes freedoms.

 

The story says NOTHING about traffic, or noise...

 

it's liberal noses in Christian's business, in everything if they can

 

get away with it. Sign of the times.

 

 

[Chicopee John]

Sorry Peen,

You get enough cars parking in the street so I cant get in my driveway,somethings gotta give.

Plent of churches would welcome the use of there church to get jiggy with it all they want but not in a residential neighborhood.

 

 

Please separate your bias against religion from a civil rights issue.

 

If this was a different case with a group of atheists, IMHO, the ACLU would be all over this.

 

[Pumpkin Eater]

The government seems to be forgetting that it works for us, not us for them.

 

What a crock of Sh!t to be harrassed like that.

 

I don't think it's about religion, it's about the stupidity of our modern government, with its thousands of rules and regulations and inabiliy to use common sense.

[calfoxwc]

I heard this discussed on the radio today.

 

Apparently, one board member had no idea it was an issue.

 

He didn't even know about it.

 

The board pres isn't talking.

 

It's one? or two? liberal wacko(s) with an agenda.

 

The arrogance of liberals brings them to think that

others must be intimidated from doing anything that

the libs don't like.

 

And, it IS happening today, with the attempted intimidation of

gun owners, conservatives, talk radio, critics of socialistobama,

 

 

and still, due to that same arrogance, the failed policies of Nobama

are defended by the libs.

 

All the billions and billions of dollars went down the tubes with the auto co's.

 

Freedom loving America is in big, big trouble.

[Guest AdaM]

Sorry Dan, but you invented the cars thing.

 

 

I suppose all birthday parties, 4th of July parties, wedding receptions,

 

pool parties are out, too.

 

So goes freedoms.

 

The story says NOTHING about traffic, or noise...

 

it's liberal noses in Christian's business, in everything if they can

 

get away with it. Sign of the times.

 

 

We don't give a shit if you gather and pray / worship or whatever dumbass.

 

 

 

You think we are anti religion and anti christian. We seriously don't give the slightest shit what you do as long as you don't try and recruit me.

 

 

 

 

I promise you, liberals don't care what you do with your religion as long as you don't force it on people or base important decisions off of a 2,000 year fiction collection.

[Westside Steve]

We don't give a shit if you gather and pray / worship or whatever dumbass.

 

 

 

You think we are anti religion and anti christian. We seriously don't give the slightest shit what you do as long as you don't try and recruit me.

 

 

 

 

I promise you, liberals don't care what you do with your religion as long as you don't force it on people or base important decisions off of a 2,000 year fiction collection.

 

 

Gee you sound pretty angry for a guy who doesn't care....

WSS

[DieHardBrownsFan]

We don't give a shit if you gather and pray / worship or whatever dumbass.

 

 

 

You think we are anti religion and anti christian. We seriously don't give the slightest shit what you do as long as you don't try and recruit me.

 

 

 

 

I promise you, liberals don't care what you do with your religion as long as you don't force it on people or base important decisions off of a 2,000 year fiction collection.

 

 

Settle down punk. I don't care if you believe or not. Sounds like you have serious issues of some type.

[ballpeen]

We don't give a shit if you gather and pray / worship or whatever dumbass.

 

 

 

You think we are anti religion and anti christian. We seriously don't give the slightest shit what you do as long as you don't try and recruit me.

 

 

 

 

I promise you, liberals don't care what you do with your religion as long as you don't force it on people or base important decisions off of a 2,000 year fiction collection.

 

This is the kind of post that illustrates why I think the majority of Americans are stupid.

 

Why don't you try posting without cussing and calling people names?

 

It isn't hard. It just takes a little focus and concentration.

 

[Kosar_For_President]

I don't think it's about religion, it's about the stupidity of our modern government, with its thousands of rules and regulations and inabiliy to use common sense.

 

Yea this has never happened before in history. Everyone makes it sound like this is a new thing, oppression of religion. Woh is me, the world is coming to an end. Obama is a commie. I wonder if this guy on this wheel was thinking the same thing, oh wait communism wasn't invented yet.

 

[Mr. T]

America is unrecognizable.

 

The nation is debased and dishonored by those charged with its care and protection. There are traitors among us and we have refused to call them so. It seems we have valued decorum and civility above truth and now buckle under the heavy consequences of our failure to state the truth. Please note that traitors among us have used every means available to destroy our republic and nullify our constitution. Illegal voters are speedily registered in ever increasing numbers to decide who will govern the nation and set its agenda, and often it is done at the American tax payers’ expense. Christians are routinely and increasingly vilified and targeted as possible subversives when they are in fact the backbone and foundation stone of America and represent the largest constituent group in the nation.

 

As a result of good people doing nothing the nation has experienced a deliberate takeover of some of its most critical institutions: our national educational system, the judiciary, the legislature, the senate, the congress and now the White House. The increasingly threatening and sinister tone of Washington grows bolder and shriller daily. Its influence has metastasized and threatens to spread into every state and town of the union and it seems that there is little God loving and law abiding citizens can do about it. These malcontents and traitors that masquerade as our elected leaders have succeeded in hi-jacking our courts, universities, and even some of our Christian denominations.

 

In just 30 years we have watched the culture of entertainment in America wrested from us and twisted into a grotesque caricature of what it once was. Our children are subject to vulgarities, double-entendres and commercials that make every traditionally minded American blush in shame. We are bullied and coerced, pushed and shoved into acquiescence, and now, like the Christians hiding in the catacombs 2000 years ago, we are exiled to the heartland of the country and the edges of the internet. I pray rather that we might in fact be like that noble gathering of individuals selected by God for His servant-judge Gideon, a prophetic end-time army of Christ-followers determined to be among those, who as SteveQ has often quoted, a remnant that will be strong, and do exploits.

 

There is a need for righteous indignation and for God inspired action today. May God give us counsel, courage and wisdom to be His response to the mess we have made and now find ourselves in.

[We need Tom Tupa]

Inspecta,

Text on a message board can be misread.

It wasnt my intention to "slam" Christians it was more puzzlement than anything else.

 

I was a caregiver in my own home for my mother in law 7 days a week 24 hours a day for 18 months rather than send her to a nursing home where quite frankly no matter how much you spend on one they are a very cold and lonely place that I wouldnt wish on limberg to have to be in.

That was an extremely difficult time in my life and many challenges were faced like the fact that my only job was her and it put a bit of a hurt on our finances and being a caregiver isnt an easy task to do but that woman brought my wife into this world and she was dying and the way I was raised was to respect others and she wanted to be at home with her family so we honored that.

 

Her prognosis was very grim and she wasnt suppossed to live more than six months but through the entire familys effort she lived 18 months and 16 of it were good quality.

 

After she passed at the family get together back at one of the relatives house I had a conversation with the priest who said the prayers at her funeral,

Their religion was Lutheran which I called "roman catholic light",

anyway he said something very profound that has stayed with me everyday since then.

 

He told me that God isnt found in a church but in each of us and that my actions and deeds in life without my even knowing it were in keeping with the ten commandments and I thought about it and he was right for the most part,sure ive made mistakes along the way in life as everyone does but for the most part I truely was living the life he described.

 

4 years later I had to do the same for my own mother but she didnt have much time so we made her as comfortable as possible and thats why RJ's battle was so touching to me because what I am describing here has affected everyones life {cancer}.

 

I truely believe that its not saying you believe in whoever or going to mass on a regular basis but if their really is anything after this life you should be judged on your deeds and actions towards others and not who or how you prayed to.

 

There is alot of things about my life that I wont discuss in a public forum and I really resisted posting this but in order to make my point on religion I felt I should share where it is that im coming from and when all is said and done if my deeds on this earth arent enough than i'll rot in my box or go to hell and im fine with that.

 

Anyone who has the nerve to tell me that thats all fine and good but until I accept Jesus Christ my deeds mean nothing they can go fuk themselves and yes that was said to me by a born again Christian ,mind you im not putting Christians on trial here im just simply stating that this conversation has happened to me on more than one occassion and I have always been polite but I will never understand that kind of thought process.

 

Please dont respond with thanking me for the way I handled my family because thats what we should all be doing everyday of our lives so put the damn bible down and go out and give a shit for something other than yourselves.

Im out!

I understand your point, and it makes a lot of sense, but I have two comments.

 

First, I sincerely doubt you want to be judged based on your ability to follow the 10 commandments. It would take longer than we have for us to share the number of times we didnt honor our fathers and mothers, didnt keep the Sabbath, took the lords name in vain, stole something from someone, coveted something that wasnt our own, lied about someone, coveted someone else's wife, etc. Compared to the hardened criminal, yeah, we are good people. But I would hate to think what kind of judgment we would suffer if we got to heaven and had to account for our entire life as measured by comparison to a measure higher than whether or not we were nice guys.

 

Second, I think it is a little harsh to tell hundreds of millions of people to go f*ck themselves because they believe in the Bible. I'm guessing your reaction comes from either a bad experience you had with someone that professed to be Christian or from your personal perception of Christian faith. If it is because you have encountered particularly unloving, disrespectful, or plain old mean people promoting the Bible, then I am truly sorry. There are far too many of them. If it is attributable to your perception of Christian beliefs, then I'd like to try to address that.

 

The Bible tells us that all have sinned, that Jesus is the only way to God, and that we are saved by grace, not by works. It is certainly accurate to read the New Testament and understand it to say that your deeds are of no eternal value without faith in God; that is what it says. It says that you arent good enough to go to heaven, and that nothing you ever do will change that. But it isnt meant to insult you, discourage you, or belittle you. It is a message of profound hope. If what you want is salvation, then you don't need to lead a perfect life. You don't have to be good enough, to keep the 10 commandments, or to rack up a certain number of good deeds. You dont need to make sure that you take care of enough people as an adult to make up for all the people you werent good to or for all the times you did something wrong. All you need to do is recognize the sacrifice made by Jesus and accept the forgiveness that he already earned for all your wrongs.

 

I understand that this sounds unfair; why should murderers get the same treatment as the rest of us? I understand that this makes God sound a bit narcissistic; why does he care more about how we treat him than how we treat each other? But this is the most rational way for a world to work if it was created by the God of the Bible. He created this world for himself. It wouldnt make sense, IMO, for him to grant or withhold eternal life based on our ability to conform to the moral code of whatever culture we were born in to. Could the line between good enough and not good enough be anything but arbitrary? Instead, he made salvation much more clear cut and much easier to receive. If you honor and accept him, you're in. If you don't, you're out. I don't see how the God of the Bible could have set it up any other way.

 

It is understandable to disagree with Christians, but I think the disagreement has to be as to whether or not there is an omnipotent, loving God that created the world, not as to whether or not you can earn his approval playing by your own rules.

 

This is oversimplified, and I apologize. And it probably contains some errors. I admit that I should devote more time to responding to such a serious topic. But I wanted at least to offer you some response.

[Mr. T]

danamal, your attempt to make an apology is lame. you dont like religion you dont want to here about religion and you go into tyrades and on the offensive any time someone brings it up.

 

So dont sit there and try to act like goody two shoes and say you respect other peoples opinions its pure BS.

 

You have a total disrespect towards anybody who believes in God.

 

 

[calfoxwc]

Dan,

 

You have a point, but you're vicious rebuke was a generalization toward any Christian.

 

From what I can tell, nobody here is a Bible thumping, vindictive judger of folks who don't

 

believe however we do, I mean that as individuals.

 

I'm hardly qualified to give you a solid legit explanation, but, from what I remember,

 

a human being who does the excellent things for the right reasons accrues a higher calling

 

in Heaven than does a no good bum who laments late in life and realizes the Truth.

 

But, how can God create us with free will to choose, and then negate the right to choose

 

when for a long time, someone hasn't chosen?

 

That would hardly be perfect justice, would it?

 

I understand your frustration, but lashing out against the Bible, and all Christians, and assuming

 

we are carrying it with us, and judging you in anger is way off from what I think you meant.

 

 

 

 

[Mr. T]

Okay dan, but you should remember how many people did Saul(Paul) have killed before he converted.

[Pumpkin Eater]

Yea this has never happened before in history. Everyone makes it sound like this is a new thing, oppression of religion. Woh is me, the world is coming to an end. Obama is a commie. I wonder if this guy on this wheel was thinking the same thing, oh wait communism wasn't invented yet.

 

 

I work in Civil Engineering and deal getting permits through local governments on a daily basis and I assure everyone here it has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with a severe lack of common sense and a basic inability to recognize the original INTENT of ordinances.