Josh Rosen?

[jrb12711]

What's wrong with Josh Rosen?

About this time three years ago, I made a very similar thread-except instead of Rosen, I posed the question for Derek Carr. Let's start with the fact that anyone who watched the game yesterday and thinks in any way shape or form that Kizer is the dude is insane. I swear to God if I see one more red zone INT into double or triple coverage I may lose my mind.

With that being said, it's apparent to me that Dorsey is all hands on deck to draft a QB. There's some interesting prospects, but I can't understand for the life of me why Rosen isn't the clear cut number 1 pick. Literally the only knock on the guy is he says some short-sighted (albeit true) things to the media and that he rubs people the wrong way. Watching the guy play all I see is a franchise QB who checks off every single box you'd want. So I'm asking in all sincerity, why not Rosen? Why would any other QB even be considered? 

[Tour2ma]

I agree that Rosen is the pocket passer in this class. And while he is not immobile... neither can he be called "mobile."

So in my mind he's the clear #1 as well.

But... if a franchise is looking for mobility in their QB, then I can see them going elsewhere.

[jrb12711]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

I agree that Rosen is the pocket passer in this class. And while he is not immobile... neither can he be called "mobile."

So in my mind he's the clear #1 as well.

But... if a franchise is looking for mobility in their QB, then I can see them going elsewhere.

Yeah, I suppose that's a knock as well but I'd agree with you there. He's not going to be Mike Vick out there, but if old butt Joe Flacco can still be QB sneaking I trust we can make Rosen mobile enough.

[Tour2ma]

Sure... but we aren't valuing "read-option" level mobility. Some teams do. And it looks as if our team now may...

[SD_Tom]

There's nothing wrong with him, and he'll be the #1 pick 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Sure... but we aren't valuing "read-option" level mobility. Some teams do. And it looks as if our team now may...

I agree.  And it scares me. 

If the Browns waste this opportunity on some happy footed scrambler, I may have to finally tune out for a while. 

I don't care if Rosen rubs Republicans the wrong way, he's the clear top choice.  

[calfoxwc]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2744981-good-bad-and-ugly-of-josh-rosen-sam-darnold-on-display-in-uscs-win-vs-ucla

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/news/josh-rosen-poor-decisions-memphis-upsets-ucla/1oppsyjx326021me5iwsxwth44

Josh Rosen's decision-making proves costly in Memphis upset of UCLA

 

https://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/more-sports/would-josh-rosens-personality-keep-you-from-picking-him-1/73687156/

Draft Analyst's Tony Pauline compares some of the talk of alleged personality issues with UCLA junior QB Josh Rosen to what was said of former Michigan State QB Connor Cook.

Per Pauline, at least two NFL GM's have flat-out decided that Rosen will be a stay-away for draft purposes due to his demeanor. Writes the analyst, "Opinions are that Rosen is not the leader they need on the field for the next level -- the things he’s gotten away with on the college field won’t fly in the NFL." Pauline adds that "[t]he word egotistical was mentioned many times in referring to Rosen." We're almost surely going to continue to hear reports along these lines as the draft process picks up speed, but Rosen is also supremely talented -- one evaluator told Pauline that many of his throws are "off the charts" special -- and could well end up the No. 1 quarterback selected in the spring, even with questions of character and demeanor floating about.

[calfoxwc]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000689872/article/nfl-personnel-man-questions-attitude-of-uclas-josh-rosen

and it gets worse:

https://nflmocks.com/2017/08/17/josh-rosen-viewed-uncoachable-many-around-ucla/

Josh Rosen Viewed as “Uncoachable” By Many Around UCLA

[calfoxwc]

http://www.nbcsports.com/northwest/ncaa/josh-rosen-you-think-college-athletes-have-it-tougher-rest-student-body

Josh Rosen: You think college athletes have it tougher than the rest of the student body?

By Dwight Jaynes August 09, 2017 9:52 AM

UCLA quarterback Josh Rosen made headlines this week with some remarks he made about academics and football -- and how they don't mesh very well. He got a lot of attention for an off-hand thought he had about raising the SAT requirements to get into Alabama but that statement was taken out of context.

But I have a problem with some of the other things he said, which to me came off as naive or insensitive about others trying to get through college without the benefit of a football scholarship:

Look, football and school don't go together. They just don't. Trying to do both is like trying to do two full-time jobs. There are guys who have no business being in school, but they're here because this is the path to the NFL. There's no other way.

No one in their right mind should have a football player's schedule, and go to school. It's not that some players shouldn't be in school; it's just that universities should help them more—instead of just finding ways to keep them eligible.

Any time any player puts into school will take away from the time they could put into football. They don't realize that they're getting screwed until it's too late. You have a bunch of people at the universities who are supposed to help you out, and they're more interested in helping you stay eligible. At some point, universities have to do more to prepare players for university life and help them succeed beyond football. There's so much money being made in this sport. It's a crime to not do everything you can to help the people who are making it for those who are spending it.

Pardon me if I'm not feeling all that sorry for these guys. I worked my way through school. So did my brother. And we had it easy. We had parents in a position to give us a little help. But what about that single mom with two kids working in a restaurant or clothing store trying to get through college? What about that young guy working eight hours of construction all day and then trying to put together enough night-school hours to get a degree? Or how about the kid who isn't working now but will be grinding for the next 20 years paying off that $100,000 student loan?

And those people aren't getting the "help" (tutors, advisers, etc..) that those football players are getting.

I understand the whole idea of big-time college sports generating a lot of revenue that never trickles down to the players. But I also see a whole lot of athletes -- including the ones who are in college ONLY as a path to the pros -- who place no value whatsoever on that college education. The athletes are often the rare ones leaving school without major unpaid loans hanging over their heads.

Let's talk about UCLA, where Rosen goes.

It's estimated that the cost of attending UCLA for just one year -- for a California resident -- is $34,056. For a non-resident it's $60,738. PER YEAR. So please, spare me all the talk about athletes not being paid for their athletic participation. They are being given something of great value, whether they realize it or not. Do they have to work for their scholarships? Of course, but maybe no longer or no harder than you or me or, more appropriately, our children did at jobs not quite as glamorous as playing college football or basketball.

There's nobody there to give you a standing ovation when you leave that janitor job every night on the way to night school. And certainly you're never going to be the Big Man (or Woman) On Campus -- with all the perks that go with it -- while slinging bento at a local food cart.

Spare me, Mr. Rosen. You and your teammates don't really have it so tough.

 

[calfoxwc]

rosen might go the Elway-Manning route and refuse to play for the Browns anyways - just not

the right pick for the Browns - too bad, he certainly has the arm, he just doesn't have the class.

[hoorta]

2 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

I agree that Rosen is the pocket passer in this class. And while he is not immobile... neither can he be called "mobile."

So in my mind he's the clear #1 as well.

But... if a franchise is looking for mobility in their QB, then I can see them going elsewhere.

Like Lamar Jackson or Baker Mayfield. 

Yeah Cal, we know you don't like Rosen very much. I'm not digging in my heels in on a pick yet. Draft is 4 months away, and a lot can happen in that time. What ya gonna do Cal if Darnold (who's Rosen minus the character issues) declares? & right now I have around 4 qbS ranked ahead of Allen. 

 

[calfoxwc]

beats me, we'll see. I actually like Darnold, he just doesn't seem to take care of the ball, etc. But I would hope he DOES declare, if that means the Browns pick him, and not rosen.  there are plenty of scouts who have tremendous respect for Darnold -

http://thebiglead.com/2017/09/12/one-play-proved-why-nfl-scouts-are-drooling-over-sam-darnold/

If I were to truly try to rate the qbs?

1. Darnold

2. Allen

3. Thorson

4. Faulk

5. Mayfield-Rosen LOL

 

[jrb12711]

So your links against are basically one bad game, and two about how he has an attitude problem. The truth is the guy is extremely smart, and comes from a wealthy background. People hate Mark Zuckerburg for the same types of reasons, but I think he's doing okay. I get that leadership is a tangible skill set for the QB position, but I don't see him as polarizing as say Manziel was, not even close.Cam Newton threw a stolen laptop out his dorm window and I'm pretty sure you'd love that dude on your team. Everyone hated horse-face, and he turned out alright. Point is, that stuff is pretty inconsequential.

[Richiswhere]

Well if only 2 GM's are saying to stay away from Rosen  that really doesn't mean much its not like its 10 or 15 and all the draft guru's and who know those 2 gm's who  don't like Rosen both might play in the same east coast stadium.

[hoorta]

4 minutes ago, Richiswhere said:

Well if only 2 GM's are saying to stay away from Rosen  that really doesn't mean much its not like its 10 or 15 and all the draft guru's and who know those 2 gm's who  don't like Rosen both might play in the same east coast stadium.

I've said it a bunch of times- going to depend on how he interviews. He's a smart guy, if he really doesn't want to play for the Browns, he'll certainly let it be known then. I really don't give a rat about his political views, there's plenty of Republicans who don't love Trump either. 

I did notice compared to some of the "mobile" QBs (Mayfield and Jackson) he's not a track star, that concerns me more than his supposed attitude problems. Yup, a few scouts and GMs don't like him. We'll see if that turns into a universal opinion after the combine and individual workouts. 

[The Gipper]

6 hours ago, jrb12711 said:

About this time three years ago, I made a very similar thread-except instead of Rosen, I posed the question for Derek Carr. Let's start with the fact that anyone who watched the game yesterday and thinks in any way shape or form that Kizer is the dude is insane. I swear to God if I see one more red zone INT into double or triple coverage I may lose my mind.

With that being said, it's apparent to me that Dorsey is all hands on deck to draft a QB. There's some interesting prospects, but I can't understand for the life of me why Rosen isn't the clear cut number 1 pick. Literally the only knock on the guy is he says some short-sighted (albeit true) things to the media and that he rubs people the wrong way. Watching the guy play all I see is a franchise QB who checks off every single box you'd want. So I'm asking in all sincerity, why not Rosen? Why would any other QB even be considered? 

Why is Rosen not #1?   Because in my mind, there is no particular pecking order on these QBs. Because they have not finished their college careers and we (i.e.....Browns scouting dept.) needs to see their entire body of work.  Because there is still some question on Whether or not all these guys will be coming out.  Because they have not gone through their combines/workouts/interview etc. 

So...he is not #1 because no one is #1. 

[LondonBrown]

Hue has a type and has Haslam eating out the palm of his hand so therefore it will be Josh Allen with the Texans pick and he will sit behind AJ McCarron. Then in time both will turn out as bad as the rest of the QBs we have had here whilst Josh Rosen wins multiple superbowls in New York with the Giants. BANK IT.

[jrb12711]

18 minutes ago, Richiswhere said:

Well if only 2 GM's are saying to stay away from Rosen  that really doesn't mean much its not like its 10 or 15 and all the draft guru's and who know those 2 gm's who  don't like Rosen both might play in the same east coast stadium.

It's also being extremely short-sighted of your argument to not make note of the fact every "bad personality" argument was from before this season started. The last "blemish" is the whole student athlete thing, which I encourage you to read: https://www.si.com/college-football/2017/08/08/josh-rosen-student-athlete-ncaa-comments

What, exactly, is so bad about what he is saying? I worked my way through college too, but he's not wrong. the NCAA machine is ridiculous. Even if you knock him for saying it, he's kept his head down since and preformed at a dominant level on the field.

[D Bone]

4 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

I agree that Rosen is the pocket passer in this class. And while he is not immobile... neither can he be called "mobile."

So in my mind he's the clear #1 as well.

But... if a franchise is looking for mobility in their QB, then I can see them going elsewhere.

I've seen every Rosen snap and his pocket movement is Brady like in terms of being slippery and finding a different launch point. While the "mobile QB" tag may never be slapped on him, he's definitely good enough.

My only concern is wondering what's in his heart.... Does he love football enough to be great at the next level? He's been hard to read on that for all the years I've seen him play. Just when I think "Hell yea, dude is a warrior" then another game pops up where I wondered if he needed a nap at half time..... I just don't know about his motor. 

 

[stillmotion]

4 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

rosen might go the Elway-Manning route and refuse to play for the Browns anyways - just not

the right pick for the Browns - too bad, he certainly has the arm, he just doesn't have the class.

I could see Rosen refusing to playing for the Browns because of the attitude problem I’ve heard much of. People are forgetting that I live in Los Angeles, and a lot of people are assholes here. They feel like they’re “above” people. I encountered a few of them at a bar last week. Apparently scouts were warning about his character. NFL GM’s calling him an arrogant prick, and almost every UCLA fan, student, and teacher I’ve known that’s met him hates him. Maybe his teammates like him? But I’ve heard he talks down to coaches and does things his own way. When’s the last time you found someone’s high school coach talk negatively about someone? I suppose they really have to be a pretty big pooper. My friend, who teaches at UCLA’s friend had Rosen as a student in class, and he said the kid was a complete pooper to him. It’s fine though, because character and intangibles don’t matter. A talented player has never been an pooper before. The question is why so many people, students, teachers, scouts, GM’s, football coaches would all make this up as a smear campaign against Rosen? Or maybe, In fact, the kid could be an pooper of new levels. My friend who teaches at UCLA loves UCLA but hates Rosen. And my friend is Jewish, so please save me anti Semitic euphemism argument gipper. I’m full out going to say I think the kid is going to be a major bust because of his character. Mayfield will be a star. If we pick Rosen, I think he could care less about the browns, and perhaps would pull an Elway. Please don’t try and make Rosen into your “ideal qb”, because if he’s truly an pooper, if people will hate him, and if he only cares about himself he’s doomed to fail. If my friend who teaches at UCLA, all the students I know there, and all the coaches scouts and GMs are all wrong about him, then I’ll be grateful and gladly admit I was wrong. But for me, he’s the scariest pick #1 by far. I can’t fathom why so many people would say negatively things about the kid. And if that isn’t a red flag to you, what is? Grabbing your crotch during a game, or tons of people you’ve met who aren’t your teammates calling you an arrogant prick?

[Richiswhere]

49 minutes ago, jrb12711 said:

It's also being extremely short-sighted of your argument to not make note of the fact every "bad personality" argument was from before this season started. The last "blemish" is the whole student athlete thing, which I encourage you to read: https://www.si.com/college-football/2017/08/08/josh-rosen-student-athlete-ncaa-comments

What, exactly, is so bad about what he is saying? I worked my way through college too, but he's not wrong. the NCAA machine is ridiculous. Even if you knock him for saying it, he's kept his head down since and preformed at a dominant level on the field.

What??!!?!?!?   I will make it easier ...I was written the at least 2 GM are saying that Rosen is a flat out stay away for draft purpose and I'm saying that those 2 GM's are for teams that play in the same stadium on the east coast and if you can't figure out those 2 teams they would be the Jets and Giants.

[jrb12711]

38 minutes ago, Richiswhere said:

What??!!?!?!?   I will make it easier ...I was written the at least 2 GM are saying that Rosen is a flat out stay away for draft purpose and I'm saying that those 2 GM's are for teams that play in the same stadium on the east coast and if you can't figure out those 2 teams they would be the Jets and Giants.

Sorry, just misquoted you there and meant to do CAL. Yes, a couple of rogue GM's don't scare me away.

[Clevfan4life]

7 hours ago, jrb12711 said:

 I swear to God if I see one more red zone INT into double or triple coverage I may lose my mind.

Welcome to the sunday before last, u know...the GB throw. I was frothing, yesterday, not so much. Why? Cause I FUKKING CALLED IT AFTER THE GB GAME HE'D TRY ALMOST THAT SAME FUKKING THROW ALL OVER AGAIN. 

[Clevfan4life]

Also, dont people suspect that theres teams that would love to trash some qb's and make clev gun shy sonthatbplayer falls down the board?

[SD_Tom]

Reports about character from 2016 mean pretty much nothing. Any questions from outliers were before this  season started,  not during or after. 

The biggest concerns from ucla  fans are his injuries sustained at ucla,  and that he'll be on a team like the Browns. Nobody mentions anything about attitude or character issues. It's nonsense 

Keep in mind, there are certain scouts who said bosa would be average at best.  He's too slow,  already maxed out in technique... Etc. 

Nonsense 

[stillmotion]

17 minutes ago, SD_Tom said:

Reports about character from 2016 mean pretty much nothing. Any questions from outliers were before this  season started,  not during or after. 

The biggest concerns from ucla  fans are his injuries sustained at ucla,  and that he'll be on a team like the Browns. Nobody mentions anything about attitude or character issues. It's nonsense 

Keep in mind, there are certain scouts who said bosa would be average at best.  He's too slow,  already maxed out in technique... Etc. 

Nonsense 

I mean there was nerve injury in the shoulder but Rosen said it wasn't a big deal. Some scouts think it is. Mora said it wasn't too. I'm sure they'd find out if it isn't the case.

Rosen is a better physical NFL-ready QB specimen then Mayfield, and like I said before they both have character concerns, but seriously man, a QB needs to be a leader.... Why these character concerns don't matter to you I don't understand.

Had everyone of told me Rosen has no character concerns I would say take him #1, now. But after the massive amount of people that told me every NFL team needs to stay far away from him, obviously I have to be skeptical. I guess you also think Manziel's character concern's were "nonsense". That worked out for us well.

[calfoxwc]

Actually, I think I'd draft Mayfield, way, way before rosen. Mayfield has serious heart and leadership.

[Dutch Oven]

You'd think short QBs with obvious maturity issues who play in the Big 12 would be red flags too...

[SD_Tom]

3 hours ago, stillmotion said:

I mean there was nerve injury in the shoulder but Rosen said it wasn't a big deal. Some scouts think it is. Mora said it wasn't too. I'm sure they'd find out if it isn't the case.

Rosen is a better physical NFL-ready QB specimen then Mayfield, and like I said before they both have character concerns, but seriously man, a QB needs to be a leader.... Why these character concerns don't matter to you I don't understand.

Had everyone of told me Rosen has no character concerns I would say take him #1, now. But after the massive amount of people that told me every NFL team needs to stay far away from him, obviously I have to be skeptical. I guess you also think Manziel's character concern's were "nonsense". That worked out for us well.

I don't get how there's "massive amount of people saying to stay away" I don't find any reports it, other than a few from 2016 or before the 2017 season even started, and even those were more speculating on his immature attitude and leadership than actually critiquing anything about his chances as an NFL QB or how rotten of a teammate he is. I think Aaron Rogers had similar "issues" and he's been ok thus far. 

Comparing Rosen to Manziel is completely absurd. Off the field... on the field.... they're nothing alike. 

On the plus side- Rosen is used to playing on a bad team. Mayfield and Darnold? Not so much

[stillmotion]

40 minutes ago, SD_Tom said:

Comparing Rosen to Manziel is completely absurd. Off the field... on the field.... they're nothing alike. 

 

It's no more absurd than comparing Mayfield to Manziel. 

https://nflspinzone.com/2017/06/30/2018-nfl-draft-josh-rosen-smear-campaign/

On the Rich Eisen Show recently, UCLA coach Jim Mora heaped tremendous praise on Rosen but also said he has asked Rosen if he wants to be more like 

Johnny Manziel or Tom Brady. The implication is clear. Maybe Rosen should tone it down.

 

So let me think for a second, his own college coach compared him to Manziel on the record but we shouldn't?

 

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/05/22/jim-mora-on-josh-rosens-fk-trump-cap-flap-youre-heading-towards-johnny-manziel/

 

After his junior year of High School, he was invited to the Elite 11 quarterback camp. It is a huge honor to be selected. The best high school quarterbacks in the country go and are tutored about how to get to the next level by ex and current NFL quarterbacks.

Rosen went to the camp and thought he knew everything already. He did not pay attention during film sessions, and was outright rude to the veteran quarterbacks there. Trent Dilfer who ran the camp had a number of quotes about Josh. The least offensive of which was “My bigger thing was he thinks he knows more than he knows.”

He is the son of two wealthy, Ivy-League educated parents. He is very smart…but most people can’t stand him.

His dream school was Stanford. Even though he was the #1 high school recruit in the country, after doing a background check on him, Stanford wanted nothing to do with him and did not offer him a scholarship. USC did not recruit him hard for the same reason.

Rosen has a tremendous upside, but many articles and sources indicate, he is also an arrogant jerk.