Josh Rosen?

[SD_Tom]

6 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

Doubtful. People see what subtracting elliot has meant to the cowboys. Dak sht gold last year, this year?.....not so much. Wuts the diff? Its elliot. A RB that forces 8 men into the box opens up all kinds of passing lanes. Made dak what he was last year. So u can call it a passing league but if u have no run game whatsoever teams just drop an extra guy back. 

Barkley isn't half the back Zeke is. Zeke dominated every single game except the one they lost to MSU. Then he crushed it in the playoffs. I was very interested in Barkley early, but he seems way overhyped. He doesn't get 150+ yds a game or rush for a huge YPC like Zeke and Fournette etc. He's disappeared in a lot of games this season. Here in CA, they love Rashaad Penny and it'll be interesting to see if he fares compared to Barkley. 

[SD_Tom]

About 3:30 Mora discusses Rosen and the negative reports.  

 

The more I watch, the more I like him and the less concerned I am w/ him #1.

[jiggins7919]

I would never compare Mayfield to Manziel, as I believe Johnny was on an entirely different level, but I can definitely understand why OUR team would have a heightened sense of apprehension.  I mean, my God...can you just IMAGINE if we drafted Mayfield and he somehow turned out to be an irresponsible party-boy who didn't work hard and ultimately failed because of his excessive ways?  Our franchise might just officially blow up.  

That being said, IF we somehow were to draft Mayfield, I feel confident that we would've done a TON of research and concluded that he was as safe as any kid could be to draft.  After all, we need to remember that these ARE KIDS, and one can only be so sure of their work ethic and decision-making skills.  I know it's not very scientific, but Mayfield just seems to have that "it factor" that so many people like to talk about, and I know it's a cop-out description, but it's how I feel.  Is it enough to warrant picking him over a 6'4, 218 pound Rosen who throws a gorgeous ball and seems to handle a crumbling pocket well?  Eh, I doubt it.  

As I've written before, I think Lamar Jackson bares some consideration too, and don't be surprised if he's the guy that rapidly ascends up people's draft boards.  I'm not really sure he's a good fit for US because he strikes me as more of a "project type QB", I still believe his physical abilities are going to make some GM go bananas....especially after the combine.  After his bowl game, I'd guarantee that Lamar is going to work with some QB guru, and if he can get some of his mechanics ironed out and puts on a show at the combine and his pro day, he's going to go VERY high.  Some believe Lamar is too slender and he'll get snapped like a twig when he takes the first shot to his legs, but I don't see that happening.  If Lamar goes to a team that has some offensive weapons and an OC with some imagination, I could see him being a nightmare.  

Why don't I like Sam Darnold?  Is it because I watched his first 4 games of the season and came away unimpressed?  Is that fair to him?  Obviously I see the physical talent, but there's something about the guy that I don't like.  

[TexasAg1969]

So who do I listen to on Rosen? His coach from UCLA with major NFL connections that thinks he's supersmart and an ideal pocket passer for the NFL  or some internet guy that thinks 2nd rate Allen is the be all end all of QB prospects. 

Tough choice.

[jrb12711]

7 hours ago, wargograw said:

If you guys would just admit "I recognize there are a zillion red flags around the kid, but he's so good I want him anyway," I'd respect the position. But to sit here and act like Rosen is the height of maturity and responsibility is absurd. 

War, this is exactly the point I've been making a bunch in this thread. Yes, the kid isn't as clean as a whistle but his "indiscretions" break down to:

-Wearing a stupid hat

-Making an articulate point about an issue where many people agree, although maybe could have not been said at all.

-Defending his coach against a moron fan

Everything else is nothing but heresay unless you really want to buy into stillmotions "60 friends say he sucks" bullcrap.  Tell me then, how is that "a zillion red flags"? It simply isn't, and has been noted it's hard knowing this objective reality to think people are against the kid because he's wealthy and outspoken. His coach has said he's respected on several occasions, and all the chatter about him is nothing but opinionated tabloid crap. 

[TexasAg1969]

Who do I want as the Browns' QB, the polite young man who is the leading turnover machine in the NFL by a wide margin or the brash bright kid with total pocket awareness & presence who, to the best of my knowledge, has not been swan swimming in Vegas or muff diving in Hawaii (not that there's anything wrong with that)?

I'll take Rosen for $1000 Alex.

[The Gipper]

14 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

no, but between Darnold and unchosen rosie, I'd pick Darnold every single time.

But obviously, Josh Allen is my perfect qb, except he isn't quite as polished as Darnold, and it isn't just some of us,

isn't just me, that says the same exact thing about rosen rosie thornbutt

 

Except that from what I have seen....it is more likely that Darnold would be the Ryan Leaf to Rosen's Payton Manning.   Or, he would basically be Matt Leinert Jr. 

[The Gipper]

14 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

mcshay is an idiot. He's got barkley dropping to 6. Dont get me wrong id beat off to getting darnold or rosen and somehow still landing barkley. But barkley isnt making it past indy or sf.

I kind of disagree.....Barkley may be another Blair Thomas, Curtis Enis, Kijana Carter....or to put it in Browns terms....the next Trent Richardson.

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, jrb12711 said:

War, this is exactly the point I've been making a bunch in this thread. Yes, the kid isn't as clean as a whistle but his "indiscretions" break down to:

-Wearing a stupid hat

-Making an articulate point about an issue where many people agree, although maybe could have not been said at all.

-Defending his coach against a moron fan

Everything else is nothing but heresay unless you really want to buy into stillmotions "60 friends say he sucks" bullcrap.  Tell me then, how is that "a zillion red flags"? It simply isn't, and has been noted it's hard knowing this objective reality to think people are against the kid because he's wealthy and outspoken. His coach has said he's respected on several occasions, and all the chatter about him is nothing but opinionated tabloid crap. 

Being in a hot tub with a half naked chick.

You tell me...I don't think she is wearing a bottom.

[Unsympathetic]

11 hours ago, wargograw said:

If you guys would just admit "I recognize there are a zillion red flags around the kid, but he's so good I want him anyway," I'd respect the position. But to sit here and act like Rosen is the height of maturity and responsibility is absurd. 

You're the one promoting the conspiracy theory.  You want to prove he's a head case? Have at it, hoss.  

But it's your job to prove your assertion item by item, not just claim randomness.

You need to demonstrate verifiable EVENTS ---- not "i heard someone say something" or "Everyone knows he's" or "There's a zillion red flags". 

Of course you don't mention any specific item that is said or any specific item that everyone knows or any specific red flag...... because all those lies fall apart under strict scrutiny.

I don't believe or personally spread gossip -- rather, I think gossip points solely at the person making the assertion as someone who's not trustworthy now or ever in the future.

 

The reason Schiano didn't get the UT job is because McQueary is good at lying....... not because of something Schiano did.

[SD_Tom]

Rosen might not even play in the bowl game.  Still in concussion protocol. 

Let's see if he decides to stay in school with chip Kelly or go to the NFL. 

I'm guessing it's the NFL 

[The Gipper]

26 minutes ago, SD_Tom said:

Rosen might not even play in the bowl game.  Still in concussion protocol. 

Let's see if he decides to stay in school with chip Kelly or go to the NFL. 

I'm guessing it's the NFL 

I thought he was a senior with no eligibility remaining.  Even if not...why would he stay if he is being considered for the #1 overall?   How much higher than that can you get?

[hoorta]

20 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

I thought he was a senior with no eligibility remaining.  Even if not...why would he stay if he is being considered for the #1 overall?   How much higher than that can you get?

Nah Gip, Rosen is a junior. The rumors of him (almost certainly) leaving are about if he can coexist in a Chip Kelly offense. 

PS, Sam Darnold is a red shirt sophomore....   Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson are juniors. Mason Rudolph and Baker Mayfield are the seniors..... 

[Tour2ma]

14 hours ago, wargograw said:

If you guys would just admit "I recognize there are a zillion red flags around the kid, but he's so good I want him anyway," I'd respect the position. But to sit here and act like Rosen is the height of maturity and responsibility is absurd. 

Why would we admit something that we do not find to be true? But nice straw-man follow up...

7 hours ago, jrb12711 said:

War, this is exactly the point I've been making a bunch in this thread. Yes, the kid isn't as clean as a whistle but his "indiscretions" break down to:

-Wearing a stupid hat

-Making an articulate point about an issue where many people agree, although maybe could have not been said at all.

-Defending his coach against a moron fan

Everything else is nothing but heresay unless you really want to buy into stillmotions "60 friends say he sucks" bullcrap.  Tell me then, how is that "a zillion red flags"? It simply isn't, and has been noted it's hard knowing this objective reality to think people are against the kid because he's wealthy and outspoken. His coach has said he's respected on several occasions, and all the chatter about him is nothing but opinionated tabloid crap. 

Agree and add that many other documented "red flags" have been either rescinded or debunked.

Example of the former is Dilfer's criticism of the High-school kid who attended his camp vs. his embrace of the collegian who returned to help instruct in it.

Example of the latter is Stanford passing over him for personality reasons. The Stanford HC is on record saying they took no QB the year Josh graduated HS because of "scholarship considerations", a/k/a they had plenty of QBs already rostered.

 

[Dutch Oven]

I think it's fair to say that both Rosen and Mayfield have douchebag tendencies personality-wise, but IMO neither seem to have character issues that will torpedo their careers like a certain ex-Browns QB.

If my opinion is correct, then I would feel very confident taking Rosen #1 overall. On-the-field, I like him better.

[Tour2ma]

16 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I think it's fair to say that both Rosen and Mayfield have douchebag tendencies personality-wise, but IMO neither seem to have character issues that will torpedo their careers like a certain ex-Browns QB.

What's not fair to say is that their tendencies have the same root cause.

One's, Mayfield's, stem from a lack a self-control. The other's, Rosen's, stem from a lack of self-awareness.

[Buck The Frowns]

On 12/18/2017 at 8:28 AM, jrb12711 said:

About this time three years ago, I made a very similar thread-except instead of Rosen, I posed the question for Derek Carr. Let's start with the fact that anyone who watched the game yesterday and thinks in any way shape or form that Kizer is the dude is insane. I swear to God if I see one more red zone INT into double or triple coverage I may lose my mind.

With that being said, it's apparent to me that Dorsey is all hands on deck to draft a QB. There's some interesting prospects, but I can't understand for the life of me why Rosen isn't the clear cut number 1 pick. Literally the only knock on the guy is he says some short-sighted (albeit true) things to the media and that he rubs people the wrong way. Watching the guy play all I see is a franchise QB who checks off every single box you'd want. So I'm asking in all sincerity, why not Rosen? Why would any other QB even be considered? 

Nothing is wrong with Rosen. He looks to be the one closest to being an NFL quarterback right out of the box, though others may have a higher ultimate upside. The points about the huge shoe deal that UCLA signed were well thought out and well stated, especially for a 21 year old. He seems pretty smart. I hear vague rumors that people don’t like him but that’s all. No arrests, no bad tweets, no failed drug tests, no domestic violence, no date rape incidents. Wore a rude headband critical of Trump, which will probably piss off some owners. Could be a ploy to drop far enough that a decent team takes him. Maybe there is a little ethnic bias against Rosen, I don’t know. Way way worse horse’s asses have been drafted than Rosen, at least from what I see of him.

If he did an Elway maneuver, sadly, I would not blame him. This is the LaBrea Tar Pits for quarterbacks.

[Clevfan4life]

I need to find the time stamp for that one pass against usc that exemplifies why he's the clear numero uno. He had a primary edge rusher bearing down on him and he pump faked it in the guys face which caused the rusher to hold up and jump to bat down the pass. Rosen then calmly completed to an underneath route that now had enough time tomcome free because of the pump fake. 

Done. Sold. That kind of pocket cool is gard to come by in the nfl let alone college. I cant rem ever seeing a pro qb make that move but it had to have happened, rosens emulating somebody...maybe manning i dunno. But thats some cool hand luke schit i want in cleveland. 

Also, so far rosen is the only obe ive seen take snaps under center. Maybe i just havent seen enough of the other guys but whenever i see highlights its always out of the gun. That should concern ALL OF U. We've been burned how many times by college shotgun savants that proceed to schit the bed pretty much immediately upon arrival to the nfl where they do this nifty thing called the  I formation and u can do this other nifty thing where u fake the handoff drawing the lb'ers in then throwing over the top of them but infront of the secondary. 

We had this pasty red head here in clev not too long ago that bever figured out how to drop balls over the lb'ers but infront of the coverage. And thats because those PA routes were rarely called for him in college

[Dutch Oven]

I can't stress how much I absolutely loathe the spread read/option offense.

I couldn't even imagine trying to be a scout nowadays, attempting to project offensive players to the NFL that come from that abortion of an offense. You got QBs who never call a play in a huddle, throw tons of bubble screens, have one read or half/field reads at most, WRs who run two routes, and OLinemen who are perpetually in pass block mentality who literally struggle at the pro level firing off the snap and driving DLinemen off the LOS in the run game because they never do it in college.

Why top-notch high school QBs don't en masse refuse to go to schools that run the spread and go to schools who still run a pro-style offense is beyond me. The spread offense dumbs down football.

[wargograw]

On 12/21/2017 at 7:08 AM, jrb12711 said:

War, this is exactly the point I've been making a bunch in this thread. Yes, the kid isn't as clean as a whistle but his "indiscretions" break down to:

-Wearing a stupid hat

-Making an articulate point about an issue where many people agree, although maybe could have not been said at all.

-Defending his coach against a moron fan

Everything else is nothing but heresay unless you really want to buy into stillmotions "60 friends say he sucks" bullcrap.  Tell me then, how is that "a zillion red flags"? It simply isn't, and has been noted it's hard knowing this objective reality to think people are against the kid because he's wealthy and outspoken. His coach has said he's respected on several occasions, and all the chatter about him is nothing but opinionated tabloid crap. 

First off, you can always boil things down to make them sound better. For example, with Johnny you can say he just defended his friend at a bar, took money for autographs (oh wait you can't say that--never proven), and partied. Pretty much like any other college kid. 

Secondly, we're talking about the sheer numbers of reports coming out on him, and there are plenty. You can dismiss them all, but at some point it should be overwhelming. I mean I tried to dismiss he first few reports about Bill Cosby, but at a certain point you just have to concede it's probably true. 

On 12/21/2017 at 10:40 AM, Unsympathetic said:

You're the one promoting the conspiracy theory.  You want to prove he's a head case? Have at it, hoss.  

But it's your job to prove your assertion item by item, not just claim randomness.

You need to demonstrate verifiable EVENTS ---- not "i heard someone say something" or "Everyone knows he's" or "There's a zillion red flags". 

Of course you don't mention any specific item that is said or any specific item that everyone knows or any specific red flag...... because all those lies fall apart under strict scrutiny.

I don't believe or personally spread gossip -- rather, I think gossip points solely at the person making the assertion as someone who's not trustworthy now or ever in the future.

 

The reason Schiano didn't get the UT job is because McQueary is good at lying....... not because of something Schiano did.

Alot of this is just speculation. I don't deny that. I went to one of the kid's games and all HIS fans hated him and cited how much the team hates him (or at least how much Rosen hated them). Yeah that's speculation. I didn't put the guys on record. I didn't film the comments. But they do jibe with what has been the general story on this kid for three years. 

But nevertheless, you have article after article saying he's an a-hole and a tool and you guys want to sweep it under the rug as some Republican revenge campaign. Sweep it under the rug if you wish, but at least be honest about what you're doing. 

I know some of you guys don't follow CFB very closely (it's really obvious), but none of this is new with Rosen. It always takes the NFL draft and non-CFB fans to purify a kid's record who everyone in the college scene knows is a punk. 

On 12/21/2017 at 2:37 PM, Tour2ma said:

Why would we admit something that we do not find to be true? But nice straw-man follow up...

Sure it's hyperbole, but it's not a total straw-man when we've go people saying stuff like "oh, this story (where he does something really dumb) just makes me like him more." "Oh this story where he punched his OL in the face is actually to his credit because it shows how competitive he is." 

Again, yeah, it's hyperbole, but it's also the general trajectory of this board's commentary on him.

[calfoxwc]

I predict that once rosen gets mega millions, he'll eat and hot tub his way out of the NFL like a river monster.

 

[calfoxwc]

but if that doesn't happen (lol), I offer up this self help site to help fans of his new team put up with him:

https://lifehacker.com/how-to-deal-with-chronic-complainers-1668185689

[wargograw]

So the kid’s skipping his bowl game, like all the other homos. But yeah, total team player. Everyone loves him. Committed to winning. 

[Unsympathetic]

21 hours ago, wargograw said:

but at least be honest about what you're doing.

You first.

I acknowledge your admission that you've got no evidence - but then you cite "article after article" which have equally fact-free assertions.. as though some amorphous entity's pre-existing stupidity creates reality?

Nope. You've got nothing and they've got nothing.. period. 

You want to cite articles? Go for it. Each article you link I'll show you why they have nothing.. And when there's no articles left, your assertion that there's a Mass Of Articles falls apart.. and your justification for believing negative stuff about Rosen.. vanishes.

Think it through.... without the "asserted societal conclusion" the entire notion that there is a problem with Rosen falls apart.

 

This stuff about Rosen is from Starting A Rumor 101..

If I'm trying to get a rumor started, I say "I Heard Someone Else Say XYZ" when in reality I'm the only one saying XYZ.  Then the naive person who hears this runs around asking everyone "Who Is Saying This XYZ About Me/Whoever" ... when in reality now they're the one actively spreading the rumor because it wasn't a thing before I said it.. and now they're trying to find out "Who Was Saying This Before."  This is precisely how evil people get dumb/naive/gullible/simple people to do their bidding and do actively evil things.  The entire point is to get everyone running around asking Who Is Saying XYZ... because after a while people will believe that simply because they're saying that someone else is saying XYZ... it must actually be a thing.

This is exactly what happened with McQueary and Schiano --- the guy who McQueary asserted was Saying Something about Schiano testified that McQueary's assertion was a lie -- and the UT fans didn't believe him, they believed McQueary.. because society is actually now geared towards trying to "Take Someone Down"

Groupthink stupidity is a societal problem not just with Rosen... people are too eager to believe fact-free nonsense

[TexasAg1969]

3 hours ago, wargograw said:

So the kid’s skipping his bowl game, like all the other homos. But yeah, total team player. Everyone loves him. Committed to winning. 

Try again later.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ftw/2017/12/23/ucla-qb-josh-rosen-gave-incredibly-thoughtful-response-to-bowl-game-question/108879510/

[calfoxwc]

2 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

You first.

I acknowledge your admission that you've got no evidence - but then you cite "article after article" which have equally fact-free assertions.. as though some amorphous entity's pre-existing stupidity creates reality?

Nope. You've got nothing and they've got nothing.. period. 

You want to cite articles? Go for it. Each article you link I'll show you why they have nothing.. And when there's no articles left, your assertion that there's a Mass Of Articles falls apart.. and your justification for believing negative stuff about Rosen.. vanishes.

Think it through.... without the "asserted societal conclusion" the entire notion that there is a problem with Rosen falls apart.

 

This stuff about Rosen is from Starting A Rumor 101..

If I'm trying to get a rumor started, I say "I Heard Someone Else Say XYZ" when in reality I'm the only one saying XYZ.  Then the naive person who hears this runs around asking everyone "Who Is Saying This XYZ About Me/Whoever" ... when in reality now they're the one actively spreading the rumor because it wasn't a thing before I said it.. and now they're trying to find out "Who Was Saying This Before."  This is precisely how evil people get dumb/naive/gullible/simple people to do their bidding and do actively evil things.  The entire point is to get everyone running around asking Who Is Saying XYZ... because after a while people will believe that simply because they're saying that someone else is saying XYZ... it must actually be a thing.

This is exactly what happened with McQueary and Schiano --- the guy who McQueary asserted was Saying Something about Schiano testified that McQueary's assertion was a lie -- and the UT fans didn't believe him, they believed McQueary.. because society is actually now geared towards trying to "Take Someone Down"

Groupthink stupidity is a societal problem not just with Rosen... people are too eager to believe fact-free nonsense

baloney. I posted where Rosen ADMITTED he has a problem with other women on campus - he had female friends who had to

try to explain him in a better light. wherever that was, can't find it again.... but rosen's immature whining gets old. Darn, he couldn't take ONE CLASS because of football practice? seriously, rosen? whiny beatch. The whole world is so unfair to entitled josh rosen.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/08/08/stanford-coach-david-shaw-disagrees-with-ucla-qb-josh-rosen/

 

 

compare playing college football to slavery. eh, Did slaves get free educations, 60 grand a year?,

free excellent dorms, free food, free travel around the country, free this free that... what a tool.

It's so unfair - Rosen doesn't like to read - but he forces himself. boo hoo - what a victim.

The lights are too bright. The crowds are too large.

So far this season, he is average. Rosen is the 10th-rated passer in the Pac-12. He's ninth in yards per attempt.

He threw three interceptions in the opener at Texas A&M.

 

[calfoxwc]

oh, look. Josh Rosen's arrogance, demeanor, etc....

cost him a chance to go to Stanford.

https://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/ucla-bruins-stanford-cardinal-josh-rosen-dream-school-101515

 

[calfoxwc]

but, outside of ryan leaf... Rosen reminds me of Jeff George:

https://www.thesportster.com/football/8-nfl-draft-busts-from-the-90s-doing-well-for-themselves-and-7-who-are-doing-terribly/

The Indianapolis Colts selected quarterback Jeff George out of Illinois with the first pick in 1990. The 6-foot-4, 220-pound George was blessed with superb arm strength and he possessed all the necessary traits to dominate as an NFL passer. Unfortunately, George was also a basket case who feuded with virtually everyone he encountered. Hence, George never found a permanent home and he had stints with seven franchises. The combative signal-caller was practically blacklisted from the league following the 2004 campaign. In 2009 and 2010, a 42-year-old George begged the Minnesota Vikings to sign him and guaranteed he’d deliver the organization a championship.

“I guarantee I’d be wearing a ring right now,” said George, 50.

“There’s no question I can play, at a minimum price. I don’t care about my age. I can still do the same things I did when I was 25. I’m so used to throwing against five, six, seven DBs.”

When a middle-aged man implores an owner for work, this person is undoubtedly bored and dissatisfied with his life.

[SD_Tom]

4 hours ago, wargograw said:

So the kid’s skipping his bowl game, like all the other homos. But yeah, total team player. Everyone loves him. Committed to winning. 

He's not skipping it,  he was following his Dr's orders because of the concussion he had in the last game. 

He wanted to play,  they said no. It's better for his health if he doesn't play,  even if it sucks we don't get to watch him,  but he's got a consistent body of work against good teams.  It's obvious he's a front runner for #1 

[calfoxwc]

It would have been good to watch him play. But take note:

the Freshman qb for UCLA who will play in the bowl game?

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/ucla-star-qb-josh-rosen-reportedly-plans-to-sit-out-the-cactus-bowl/

As for what the Bruins do without Rosen, Devon Modster will step into the starting role. The freshman has appeared in four games for the Bruins this season, completing 30 of his 45 passes for 376 yards and two touchdowns

so, does that mean maybe that Rosen isn't all that much a superstar qb? That is 66% of his passes...