Canton Dawg Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 8 minutes ago, hoorta said: TC, two thoughts. Regarding the increase in franchise value, that's not anything Jimmy has done. It's "the rising tide raises all the boats." Second, I'm paying more for beer ($10 ripoff) and my tickets than I was 5 years ago. The stadium looks empty because a lot of the season ticket holders aren't even bothering showing up for the games anymore. The 100 level is still 100% sold out. As I've tried to explain to War, those seats are being held on to in faint hopes of better days ahead. He’s also talking about the value of an NFL franchise. Even though it’s an unrealized gain (or loss) until he actually sells the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopDawg31 Posted December 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 54 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said: The Browns attendance is down roughly 60k annually. Without those asses in the seats, Jimmah can’t sell them $8 beers or $14 cheeseburgers. Not to mention the souvenirs and other trinkets. I share club seats with a couple of friends when I go to a game. There are large sections of the upper concourse that are now vacant and sit dark. You can’t tell me Jimmah is making as much profit as he used to with less fans. https://www.statista.com/statistics/197355/nfl-regular-season-home-attendance-of-the-cleveland-browns-since-2006/ beers are $9.75, been a long time since you've been there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 5 minutes ago, TopDawg31 said: beers are $9.75, been a long time since you've been there. I attend at least one game a year. Its been a long time since I’ve bought a beer or cheeseburger, would be a more accurate statement. I tend to do my eating and drinking before and after the game somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopDawg31 Posted December 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 19 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said: I attend at least one game a year. Its been a long time since I’ve bought a beer or cheeseburger, would be a more accurate statement. I tend to do my eating and drinking before and after the game somewhere else. Its why we tailgate, by the time I get inside I'm too damn full to buy anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 6 minutes ago, TopDawg31 said: Its why we tailgate, by the time I get inside I'm too damn full to buy anything else. The last time I parked downtown for a game it was $20, and I had to fight traffic and I also had to walk a mile. For last several years, I drive to the Brook Park rapid station and pay $5 for a round trip ticket...and I get dropped off at the stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 2 hours ago, Canton Dawg said: The Browns attendance is down roughly 60k annually. Without those asses in the seats, Jimmah can’t sell them $8 beers or $14 cheeseburgers. Not to mention the souvenirs and other trinkets. I share club seats with a couple of friends when I go to a game. There are large sections of the upper concourse that are now vacant and sit dark. You can’t tell me Jimmah is making as much profit as he used to with less fans. https://www.statista.com/statistics/197355/nfl-regular-season-home-attendance-of-the-cleveland-browns-since-2006/ The thought just occurred to me, and I'm too lazy to look up all the particulars- some of the increase in the bottom line is from the increased revenue from TV contracts, the real cash cow of the NFL. According to the financials released by the Packers (they're a public corporation), Each team gets a $187 million slice of the pie every year. My quick math tells me if Haslam totally sold out the stadium for every game at an average of $70 a ticket, that's around $49 million. (doesn't take into account Luxury Box revenue) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 20 minutes ago, hoorta said: The thought just occurred to me, and I'm too lazy to look up all the particulars- some of the increase in the bottom line is from the increased revenue from TV contracts, the real cash cow of the NFL. According to the financials released by the Packers (they're a public corporation), Each team gets a $187 million slice of the pie every year. My quick math tells me if Haslam totally sold out the stadium for every game at an average of $70 a ticket, that's around $49 million. (doesn't take into account Luxury Box revenue) You’re right, the NFL has multiple sources of revenue and the largest is the TV contracts. TCPO is correct in regard to the fact that Haslam will make out like a bandit regardless if anyone shows up to actually watch the game or not, just because of the TV money. However, lack of attendance will hurt his bottom line from a smaller paying audience (but this is small beans when compared to the TV and corporate revenue). I haven’t looked in several years, but the Browns were consistently in the top 10 in the league in regards to operating income. No small feat when you consider how lousy they’ve been, playing in a smaller market to boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD_Tom Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 LA hates anything SD, and vice versa. Difference is LA has everything sports wise under the sun, SD has jack Sheet except SDSU, the Gulls minor league hockey team, and the Padres, who are like the Browns of MLB The new Rams complex is gonna be incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syd Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 would be cool if they could move back hey syd do ya spam the board much ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 5 hours ago, TopDawg31 said: My guess would be San Diego fixes their Shmuckup, and woos them back to SD. LA will only support the Rams SD isn't wooing anything related to the Chargers back to San Diego unless their is a new family owning the team. That won't happen and there's very little chance of a new stadium being built in San Diego anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 5 hours ago, Canton Dawg said: He’s also talking about the value of an NFL franchise. Even though it’s an unrealized gain (or loss) until he actually sells the team. Not just franchise value. Revenue is steadily increasing year-over-year while overhead isn't rising at a near commensurate rate. It's not like he's turning around and re-investing whatever profit he has into the team to increase the franchise value. He's not pulling a Bezos and reporting a loss each year because he's investing in the future of the franchise. He's pulling a profit, making his money each year and benefitting from the other 31 teams in the league at the same time. 5 hours ago, hoorta said: TC, two thoughts. Regarding the increase in franchise value, that's not anything Jimmy has done. It's "the rising tide raises all the boats." Second, I'm paying more for beer ($10 ripoff) and my tickets than I was 5 years ago. The stadium looks empty because a lot of the season ticket holders aren't even bothering showing up for the games anymore. The 100 level is still 100% sold out. As I've tried to explain to War, those seats are being held on to in faint hopes of better days ahead. I wasn't saying it was anything Jimmy has done. I'm simply pointing out that it doesn't matter what he does or what we as fans do, he'll still make money. Could he make more if we were better? Sure. But he's not losing money by any stretch of the imagination. Gate sales are just a tiny portion of the pie. 5 hours ago, Canton Dawg said: The Browns attendance is down roughly 60k annually. Without those asses in the seats, Jimmah can’t sell them $8 beers or $14 cheeseburgers. Not to mention the souvenirs and other trinkets. I share club seats with a couple of friends when I go to a game. There are large sections of the upper concourse that are now vacant and sit dark. You can’t tell me Jimmah is making as much profit as he used to with less fans. https://www.statista.com/statistics/197355/nfl-regular-season-home-attendance-of-the-cleveland-browns-since-2006/ He still can and he still does sell those $8 beers and $14 cheeseburgers. But that doesn't really matter. Comparatively speaking, concession sales are a small part of the pie. Merchandise and gate sales are part of the revenue sharing program, so while "butts in the seats" will obviously have some small effect on overall merchandise sales, it's not nearly as important as its made out to be. The only ticket sales that aren't part of the revenue sharing program are club seats and luxury suites. The loss of 8k fans per game is actually just a drop in the bucket compared to the money they receive from suite sales, revshared merchandise and ticket sales, and the TV contracts. Let's assume that the average fan is worth $200 per game. Assuming a 60k attendance drop year-over-year, that's a loss of roughly $12mm per year. The NFL distributed $7.8 billion in TV revenue alone last year - about $244 million per team. That's just the television revenue alone. I understand your point that more fans = more money. But I'm saying that it really doesn't matter as much as people like to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 11 hours ago, hoorta said: TC, two thoughts. Regarding the increase in franchise value, that's not anything Jimmy has done. It's "the rising tide raises all the boats." Second, I'm paying more for beer ($10 ripoff) and my tickets than I was 5 years ago. The stadium looks empty because a lot of the season ticket holders aren't even bothering showing up for the games anymore. The 100 level is still 100% sold out. As I've tried to explain to War, those seats are being held on to in faint hopes of better days ahead. You can’t say “I’m giving Jimmy my money” in the same breath as “Jimmy is losing my money.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 Just now, wargograw said: You can’t say “I’m giving Jimmy my money” in the same breath as “Jimmy is losing my money.” You just like to argue for the hell of it? OK, how about.... Jimmy is not currently giving me fair value for price paid? Can't understand this is the equivalent of a stock that's hit rock bottom, and is only being held onto for the kids enjoyment when I kick off? See the Fords selling off all their stock in FMC when it tanked to $2 a share? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopDawg31 Posted December 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 On 12/28/2017 at 2:49 PM, Canton Dawg said: The last time I parked downtown for a game it was $20, and I had to fight traffic and I also had to walk a mile. For last several years, I drive to the Brook Park rapid station and pay $5 for a round trip ticket...and I get dropped off at the stadium. If the train came out my way I would consider doing the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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