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Camp Allen/RUDOLPH


calfoxwc
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After watching the Oklahoma State-Virginia Tech Game, I realized that Rudolph has grown immensely fron last year. I thought he was immobile, inaccurate...etc...but he put on a show for NFL scouts yesterday.  He was 21 of 32 for 351 yards, 2 TD's, no INTs... but what was impressive is how he threw to several receivers.    Washington started out slow - but the list of receivers...eight different receivers/rb's.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1&ei=l1pGWvGZMsjQmwGlpoXoBA&q=oklahoma+state+virginia+tech+box+score&oq=oklahoma+state+virginia+tech+box+score&gs_l=psy-ab.3...12604.19905.0.20009.27.27.0.0.0.0.201.2560.20j5j1.26.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..1.25.2461...0j0i131k1j0i22i30k1j0i22i10i30k1j33i160k1j33i21k1j33i22i29i30k1.0.LR57pW9qHs0#sie=m;/x/32sgnjgzmv0lk;6;/m/012hfxch;dt;fp;1

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2017/12/28/cowboy-up-oklahoma-state-gets-past-virginia-tech-30-21/108986680/

Oklahoma State: Rudolph ended his college career with no less than 52 school records. His two touchdown throws gave him 37 on the season, tying Brandon Weeden’s school mark. And he came into the game needing 175 yards to break Weeden’s season passing record, eclipsing that in the third quarter.

Rudolph kept avoiding the rush and making plays. He isn't the great athlete that Allen is, the ball doesn't fly off his hand like Allen,

but he can move in the pocket, somehow avoided sacks smartly,

 

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and here is a real good explanation of the Oklahoma State offense - it's a fun read, to me.

Looks to me like Rudolph and Allen are going to be big names in the NFL. First time I watched Rudolph play all year.

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/10/19/16432444/mike-gundy-oklahoma-state-football-offense

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17 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

Looks to me like Rudolph and Allen are going to be big names in the NFL. First time I watched Rudolph play all year.

You had me at Rudolf..............................................wait for it.......................................and lost me at Allen.;)

EDIT: And if you watched games with those two then you should know the difference is night and day.

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of course there is a big difference. But there is a big difference between Tom Brady and John Elway. Between Joe Montana and Kenny Stabler. Between bargsrapistberger and cam newton. Between Russell Wilson and Matt Ryan. Nobody anywhere said they were the same type of qb, strawman. Between Brian Sipe and Bernie Kosar....

  Different style qb's can be successful in the NFL. You can build around either one. If you see the field quickly, etc, etc, love the game, can make all the throws accurately...a team can thrive with either one. Allen could stay in the pocket a lot more in he pros... both could thrive in the NFL. Weeden was strictly a one read wonder - couldn't see it in the pros. Read about the Oklahoma State offense now - it is still a spread - but that doesn't mean that Rudolph or every spread offense qb is weeden. That is just really dumb.

https://pistolsfiringblog.com/mason-rudolph-not-your-typical-air-raid-quarterback/.

 

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25 minutes ago, thenew23 said:

Are we talking second, or third round?

Or are you talking about a different team taking these guys?

Because we have the 1st overall pick, and neither of these guys are worthy of that...

???......but I am not really sure that any of the other names you can come up with are any worthier.  i.e. Rosen or Darnold or Mayfield or Jackson. 

Honestly, I do not think I am really seeing it with these guys.  The David Carr/Harrington analogy may more aptly apply to them...if those are whom you deem "worthy".

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12 minutes ago, thenew23 said:

 

Because we have the 1st overall pick, and neither of these guys are worthy of that...

Maybe, but nor are the others that may claim eligibility? Both play QB & we need 3. Both still sitting on board say after pick 22? Some team always moves up from 2nd round to take 5th year option on a QB? Rudolph maybe that guy based on completion percentage alone.

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2 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

Maybe, but nor are the others that may claim eligibility? Both play QB & we need 3. Both still sitting on board say after pick 22? Some team always moves up from 2nd round to take 5th year option on a QB? Rudolph maybe that guy based on completion percentage alone.

With our QB room?   I would not be bothered if they picked up a guy at either #1 or #4 overall   (you know...they may not draft a QB at #1)....and then pick up a guy with one of our 3 picks in round 2.  

If Rudolph dropped...I may like to see him be that guy.  I mean....what are they going to do...keep either Kessler or Hogan?

But you know...I have a feeling that Rudolph would probably go at least late 1st round.   Think of the teams that need to start looking at QBOTF, even though they are good now:   Pats, Saints, Steelers, Chargers, Cardinals, maybe Vikings, maybe Packers, Redskins, Giants clearly, Bills,  plus Browns.....

That is at least 10 teams that could be in the market for a QB.

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4 hours ago, dawg2fan said:

Yeah so was Weeden.  i'm so scared of the Big 12 QBs, which includes Baker Mayfield. 

Well, I'm scared of Notre Dame Qbs- and we got Kizer. Mayfield is nothing like We-done. I'd suggest watching the Rose Bowl New Year's Day. 

2 hours ago, LondonBrown said:

Allen is the QB who is taken in round one and gets that GM the sack within two years. 

Amen there London. Cal's got this (wrong) idea that somehow Allen is accurate- he's not- by a long shot. Sure he's got a big arm, in a puff piece before the Potato Bowl they showed him throwing a pass 80 yards in the air. If a big arm was all it took, we'd already be comparing Deshone Kizer to Ben Roethlisberger....   

2 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

With our QB room?   I would not be bothered if they picked up a guy at either #1 or #4 overall   (you know...they may not draft a QB at #1)....and then pick up a guy with one of our 3 picks in round 2.  

If Rudolph dropped...I may like to see him be that guy.  I mean....what are they going to do...keep either Kessler or Hogan?

But you know...I have a feeling that Rudolph would probably go at least late 1st round.   Think of the teams that need to start looking at QBOTF, even though they are good now:   Pats, Saints, Steelers, Chargers, Cardinals, maybe Vikings, maybe Packers, Redskins, Giants clearly, Bills,  plus Browns.....

That is at least 10 teams that could be in the market for a QB.

The fans just might riot if we don't take a qb @ #1 overall Gip- not that we could do anything about it. The only way that's not happening is if someone wants to sell the ranch to move up to that spot. Depending on who's doing the selling- we can easily move back up from #4 to #2 to get the qb- assuming we have a couple guys we rate as equal.  The Monkey Wrench in that scenario is the Giants, who will almost certainly want to draft the heir apparent to Manning. Flipping picks with the G-Men? Maybe. Taking the third best qb? No way in hell is that happening again. We took 4th best Kizer- and wound up with egg on our faces. 

BTW, I'm all for doubling down on QBs like the Redskins did with RG III and Cousins- LOL, but not @ #1, & #4, as has been suggested. Some have us taking best qb at #1, and this guy: http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2018MFitzpatrick.php  @ #4. Sounds like a younger Joe Haden. I'll have a better opinion after the Alabama- Clemson Bowl game- I'll be on the lookout. 

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38 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

 

If Rudolph dropped...I may like to see him be that guy.  I mean....what are they going to do...keep either Kessler or Hogan?

My hope is with Hue or not,Dorsey won’t dik’around with 1st pick.Take your QB with the guts & arm talent to change a losing culture. Don’t risk teams trading up from Houston pick. The winner of Hogan & Kessler may only be the one willing to play at PS rates. Both need a development league but not on Browns dime anymore..pending FA QB moves, Dorsey may determine 1or 2 out of this QB class

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14 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Well, I'm scared of Notre Dame Qbs- and we got Kizer. Mayfield is nothing like We-done. I'd suggest watching the Rose Bowl New Year's Day. 

True, ND QBs haven't done much since Joe Montanna.  I know everyone talking down Kizer, but he never had a Vet to teach him anything.  Let's bring in Alex Smith so he and Josh allen or Sam Darnel can learn behind him.

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46 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Well, I'm scared of Notre Dame Qbs- and we got Kizer. Mayfield is nothing like We-done. I'd suggest watching the Rose Bowl New Year's Day. 

Amen there London. Cal's got this (wrong) idea that somehow Allen is accurate- he's not- by a long shot. Sure he's got a big arm, in a puff piece before the Potato Bowl they showed him throwing a pass 80 yards in the air. If a big arm was all it took, we'd already be comparing Deshone Kizer to Ben Roethlisberger....   

The fans just might riot if we don't take a qb @ #1 overall Gip- not that we could do anything about it. The only way that's not happening is if someone wants to sell the ranch to move up to that spot. Depending on who's doing the selling- we can easily move back up from #4 to #2 to get the qb- assuming we have a couple guys we rate as equal.  The Monkey Wrench in that scenario is the Giants, who will almost certainly want to draft the heir apparent to Manning. Flipping picks with the G-Men? Maybe. Taking the third best qb? No way in hell is that happening again. We took 4th best Kizer- and wound up with egg on our faces. 

BTW, I'm all for doubling down on QBs like the Redskins did with RG III and Cousins- LOL, but not @ #1, & #4, as has been suggested. Some have us taking best qb at #1, and this guy: http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2018MFitzpatrick.php  @ #4. Sounds like a younger Joe Haden. I'll have a better opinion after the Alabama- Clemson Bowl game- I'll be on the lookout. 

The "Monkey Wrench" is the fact that none of these QBs seem to be at all #1 overall worthy.   They really don't.   No telling if the #3 QB taken may be the best QB out there.  It would not surprise me...at all, if that were the case. 

While I also hate the whole "moving down thing"....I very well may not be opposed to trading #1 overall to the Giants, or the Jets or the Broncos...in exchange for their #1 plus their second round pick.   There really ain't no consensus that the guy taken #1 is any better at all than the guy ranked #6 or 7.

Fair to say? Give me that extra pick in the second round...give us 4 second rounders....and with one of them I WILL take a second QB.

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49 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

My hope is with Hue or not,Dorsey won’t dik’around with 1st pick.Take your QB with the guts & arm talent to change a losing culture. Don’t risk teams trading up from Houston pick. The winner of Hogan & Kessler may only be the one willing to play at PS rates. Both need a development league but not on Browns dime anymore..pending FA QB moves, Dorsey may determine 1or 2 out of this QB class

Who is that QB that you take #1 that IS going to change the losing culture?  Who IS going to have the guts and arm talent?  I am NOT seeing him.

But, you are right.....we ALL have no choice but to let Dorsey figure it out.

And...you never know...Rudolph may still be in the mix.

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3 hours ago, Tim Couch Pulls Out said:

Just to be clear...you are saying that Mason Rudolph is Tom Brady and Josh Allen is John Elway. 

just to be clear, you don't get it. NO

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http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/20344783/ucla-bruins-josh-rosen-makes-headline-comments-worth-top-pick-nfl-draft

The numbers jump out, especially during his freshman season, but, as one NFL scout noted, he had several costly throws in UCLA's loss to Texas A&M to open last season and has struggled with his accuracy in other games.

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Too many screaming Josh Rosie groupies - you'd think rosen was elvis presley and a few of them drool over his Alfred E. Newman looks.

I wouldn't draft that idiot in any round. He's a jerkface punk.

Ryan Leaf. Jeff George. Too bad for him.:rolleyes:

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there you go again - getting irate and redass over being disagreed with.

too bad. go read up on ryan leaf and geff george, and tell us how they were

great NFL qb's because they could make all the throws in college.

 

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4 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

there you go again - getting irate and redass over being disagreed with.

too bad. go read up on ryan leaf and geff george, and tell us how they were

great NFL qb's because they could make all the throws in college.

 

And you go read up on Blaine Gabbert, DeShone Kizer, Jake Locker, EJ Manuel, Josh Freeman, JaMarcus Russell and Vince Young and tell us how they were great NFL quarterbacks because they were tall athletic QB’s who had high ceilings and gave you a boner when they threw.

 

It’s fine to be stupid, but don’t pretend that you’re not.

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so, you think John Elway sucked because he was athletic. No wonder, you screw dolphins... I suppose, only the male ones.

and look who is stupid? I talk about seeing the field all the freaking time, and character. The qb's you listed couldn't see the field.

So that makes Allen and Rudolph bad qb's, so you think. Well, we'll see how the draft goes, etc. I didn't think weeden saw the field in college, nor kizer. Never once was a fan of any of the qb's you listed. I just got through saying that Ryan Leaf and Jeff George were

awesome, big talented throwers in college. You loved them, if you want to give josh rosie great big smoochies....maybe you think he's a dolphin.... There are scouts, GM's etc etc etc saying the same thing I"m saying. Give up the outrage butthurt. 

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1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

so, you think John Elway sucked because he was athletic. No wonder, you screw dolphins... I suppose, only the male ones.

and look who is stupid? I talk about seeing the field all the freaking time, and character. The qb's you listed couldn't see the field.

So that makes Allen and Rudolph bad qb's, so you think. Well, we'll see how the draft goes, etc. I didn't think weeden saw the field in college, nor kizer. Never once was a fan of any of the qb's you listed. I just got through saying that Ryan Leaf and Jeff George were

awesome, big talented throwers in college. You loved them, if you want to give josh rosie great big smoochies....maybe you think he's a dolphin.... There are scouts, GM's etc etc etc saying the same thing I"m saying. Give up the outrage butthurt. 

What? When did I say Elway sucked? You listed two busts as some sort of counterpoint to Rosen, despite the fact they are much more related to your “boys” than mine. So, in return, I listed other tall, big armed QB’s, QB’s who put up video game numbers or QB’s who had high ceilings due to athleticism...all of which failed in the NFL.

Allen’s biggest knock is his inaccuracy and decision-making, an issue most closely related to not seeing the field. He’s a tall, athletic, unanticipatory thrower who made his nut running out of the pocket on designed rollouts and heaving up a 50/50 ball. If you watched any of his games and came away with the conclusion he “saw the field”, you’re the worst judge of QB talent I’ve ever seen. He’s a project who needs two years at a minimum. 

Rudolph is a tall, mediocre-armed distributor in a very favorable offense, playing against plenty of very bad defenses. He’s a victim of the Air Raid offense and doesn’t have the arm talent nor intangibles to even be considered in the first two rounds of the draft. He’s the anti-Allen, so pairing them together in your camp makes really no sense at all.

The fact that anyone takes you seriously here is beyond me, you talk out of your butt more than Ace Ventura.

Jesus Christ, if you’re going to try and argue, at least be coherent.

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5 hours ago, The Gipper said:

The "Monkey Wrench" is the fact that none of these QBs seem to be at all #1 overall worthy.   They really don't.   No telling if the #3 QB taken may be the best QB out there.  It would not surprise me...at all, if that were the case. 

While I also hate the whole "moving down thing"....I very well may not be opposed to trading #1 overall to the Giants, or the Jets or the Broncos...in exchange for their #1 plus their second round pick.   There really ain't no consensus that the guy taken #1 is any better at all than the guy ranked #6 or 7.

Fair to say? Give me that extra pick in the second round...give us 4 second rounders....and with one of them I WILL take a second QB.

Um no Gip- you're not watching enough, and Kizer has clouded your judgement. There's at least 4, and possibly more qbs (OK, some may not declare) that have shown me as much or more already as Trubisky. And you AND me loved us some Mitch. I want the pick of the litter, not more of this trade down BS. Trade the #4 if you must- but not the #1. 

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