Camp Allen/RUDOLPH

[tiamat63]

One read and check down.

 

Brady Quinn 2.0

[calfoxwc]

4 hours ago, Tim Couch Pulls Out said:

What? When did I say Elway sucked? You listed two busts as some sort of counterpoint to Rosen, despite the fact they are much more related to your “boys” than mine. So, in return, I listed other tall, big armed QB’s, QB’s who put up video game numbers or QB’s who had high ceilings due to athleticism...all of which failed in the NFL.

Allen’s biggest knock is his inaccuracy and decision-making, an issue most closely related to not seeing the field. He’s a tall, athletic, unanticipatory thrower who made his nut running out of the pocket on designed rollouts and heaving up a 50/50 ball. If you watched any of his games and came away with the conclusion he “saw the field”, you’re the worst judge of QB talent I’ve ever seen. He’s a project who needs two years at a minimum. 

Rudolph is a tall, mediocre-armed distributor in a very favorable offense, playing against plenty of very bad defenses. He’s a victim of the Air Raid offense and doesn’t have the arm talent nor intangibles to even be considered in the first two rounds of the draft. He’s the anti-Allen, so pairing them together in your camp makes really no sense at all.

The fact that anyone takes you seriously here is beyond me, you talk out of your butt more than Ace Ventura.

Jesus Christ, if you’re going to try and argue, at least be coherent.

you twist things like a liberal, and you quack like a liberal duck. Your boy rosen is also said to be inaccurate at times under pressure,

and he's an asswhole with few intangibles to brag about. And your boy Darnold - was making Kizer look good in the cotton bowl tonight. Talented arm, but holding the ball out in traffic, fumble, AGAIN, throwing into tight impossible converage, choking under pressure, bad/inaccurate throws.... etc etc etc. I like Darnold, but he and rosen both should stay in school.

The point about leaf and george is, rosen is similar. I even posted the story about leaf in his own freaking words. and rosen appears very similar in ways.

   You don't like it, tough. Just seems true, and I'm not the only one talking about rosen that way.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

58 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

you twist things like a liberal, and you quack like a liberal duck. Your boy rosen is also said to be inaccurate at times under pressure,

and he's an asswhole with few intangibles to brag about. And your boy Darnold - was making Kizer look good in the cotton bowl tonight. Talented arm, but holding the ball out in traffic, fumble, AGAIN, throwing into tight impossible converage, choking under pressure, bad/inaccurate throws.... etc etc etc. I like Darnold, but he and rosen both should stay in school.

The point about leaf and george is, rosen is similar. I even posted the story about leaf in his own freaking words. and rosen appears very similar in ways.

   You don't like it, tough. Just seems true, and I'm not the only one talking about rosen that way.

But you are. You’re stomping around here throwing a fit and trying to push a narrative that nobody likes him when it’s really not true.

Do the board (and the world) a favor and just Shmuck off already. 

For what it’s worth, I’m not even completely sold on Rosen either. I just think you’re stupid as Shmuck.

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

you twist things like a liberal, and you quack like a liberal duck. Your boy rosen is also said to be inaccurate at times under pressure,

and he's an asswhole with few intangibles to brag about. And your boy Darnold - was making Kizer look good in the cotton bowl tonight. Talented arm, but holding the ball out in traffic, fumble, AGAIN, throwing into tight impossible coverage, choking under pressure, bad/inaccurate throws.... etc etc etc. I like Darnold, but he and rosen both should stay in school.

The point about leaf and george is, rosen is similar. I even posted the story about leaf in his own freaking words. and rosen appears very similar in ways.

   You don't like it, tough. Just seems true, and I'm not the only one talking about rosen that way.

Sorry Cal regarding Allen- you're outnumbered three to one. and TC is dead on in his evaluation about the Wyoming Wonder.  I already told you being a Cowboy fan, I was really hoping Josh could be another Wentz. I hate to bust your bubble, but he's not. He the white version of Deshone Kizer.  Rag on Rosen all you want, but on field he's got at least 2X the talent of Allen. 

Regarding Darnold- regarding the BOLD that's what NFL QBs are paid to do. I saw more great throws from Darnold in one game than I've seen out of Kizer all freaking year, ya goober. You're just looking for something to be negative about- when he was getting a tad rattled, and the game was clearly out of reach. OK ball security in the pocket- that can be taught. If you listened to Sports Center, Darnold was getting inordinate pressure on 46% of his dropbacks. A bunch of those sacks- I don't care which NFL QB you want to compare him to- he had no chance unabated to the quarterback. I'll grant you a dumb Pick 6 where the defender jumped the route. If we can get a Alex Smith- I have zero hesitation drafting Darnold #1 overall to sit behind a mentor for at least the first 8 games. He's making throws Kizer can only dream about. 

[tiamat63]

Darnold at #1 would be an epic fail. 

[TexasAg1969]

3 hours ago, boo fagley said:

Allen reminds people of Elway with his arm.

Rudolph playing in the big 12 amounts to $hit. Nobody knows for a fact that he wont be the next legit NFL franchise QB.

Allen does not remind me of Elway at all and I went to several of his up close practices in Greeley when going to grad school there. People are only saying that because he played near Denver which is all they have in common. And he has certainly never had to play a defense as good as OSU's.

[7moses7]

Rudolph has played the best of all the QBs so far this Bowl season. Big 12 QB or not he has maybe been the most consistent in his 4 years at Oklahoma State   Completion percentage is very consistent 

[calfoxwc]

3 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Allen does not remind me of Elway at all and I went to several of his up close practices in Greeley when going to grad school there. People are only saying that because he played near Denver which is all they have in common. And he has certainly never had to play a defense as good as OSU's.

Well, Elway himself was on the sidelines, so there's that. The way the ball flies when he throws, his running and ability to make plays, his elusiveness...go back and watch Elway, and then watch Allen move and throw. Come on, now. They both can run like a gazelle, both can throw excellently on the run... both have bigtime arms, both extremely athletic....

but he doesn't remind you....lol.

[calfoxwc]

8 hours ago, hoorta said:

Sorry Cal regarding Allen- you're outnumbered three to one. and TC is dead on in his evaluation about the Wyoming Wonder.  I already told you being a Cowboy fan, I was really hoping Josh could be another Wentz. I hate to bust your bubble, but he's not. He the white version of Deshone Kizer.  Rag on Rosen all you want, but on field he's got at least 2X the talent of Allen. 

Regarding Darnold- regarding the BOLD that's what NFL QBs are paid to do. I saw more great throws from Darnold in one game than I've seen out of Kizer all freaking year, ya goober. You're just looking for something to be negative about- when he was getting a tad rattled, and the game was clearly out of reach. OK ball security in the pocket- that can be taught. If you listened to Sports Center, Darnold was getting inordinate pressure on 46% of his dropbacks. A bunch of those sacks- I don't care which NFL QB you want to compare him to- he had no chance unabated to the quarterback. I'll grant you a dumb Pick 6 where the defender jumped the route. If we can get a Alex Smith- I have zero hesitation drafting Darnold #1 overall to sit behind a mentor for at least the first 8 games. He's making throws Kizer can only dream about. 

you mean as far as being a pocket passer? sure. TC is completely wrong about Allen - Josh is similar to Wentz. They both have bigtime arms, both can throw on the run accurately like a lot of NFL qb's can't, they both are hugely competitive, both can make huge plays when they take off, both are extremely athletic. both are tall, both had the same head coach, both played in the same offense, both thrive in big games.

   We'll just see. Rosen has a lot of talent - unfortunately, he has a ryan leaf/jeff george asswholeness. and that is what ruined their careers. You mean all those great throws Darnold had in the bowl game? seriously? I will say this - I like Darnold a lot - he isn't ready - he choked - chokes and doesn't protect the ball. It's pretty well known by most observers - it's a problem. How tough it is to start protecting the ball in heavy traffic? Darnold is a serious talent, sure -but he needs to stay in school and stop choking with pressure.

   I think Darnold has serious ability to throw with anticipation, to really zing some great shorter throws. But some of his mistakes reminded me of Kizer. "oh, gosh, I'm outnumbered"...lol. I just call em likes I sees em, regardless.

  and I'm not trying to be negative - it's what I see. Makes little sense to me to rationalize against Allen, and rationalize the opposite FOR rosen and Darnold.  And Darnold was horribly inaccurate early on in the first half. He and his offense just got overrun, and he choked.

[hoorta]

2 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

you mean as far as being a pocket passer? sure. TC is completely wrong about Allen - Josh is similar to Wentz. They both have bigtime arms, both can throw on the run accurately like a lot of NFL qb's can't, they both are hugely competitive, both can make huge plays when they take off, both are extremely athletic. both are tall, both had the same head coach, both played in the same offense, both thrive in big games.

   We'll just see. Rosen has a lot of talent - unfortunately, he has a ryan leaf/jeff george asswholeness. and that is what ruined their careers. You mean all those great throws Darnold had in the bowl game? seriously? I will say this - I like Darnold a lot - he isn't ready - he choked - chokes and doesn't protect the ball. It's pretty well known by most observers - it's a problem. How tough it is to start protecting the ball in heavy traffic? Darnold is a serious talent, sure -but he needs to stay in school and stop choking with pressure.

   I think Darnold has serious ability to throw with anticipation, to really zing some great shorter throws. But some of his mistakes reminded me of Kizer. "oh, gosh, I'm outnumbered"...lol. I just call em likes I sees em, regardless.

  and I'm not trying to be negative - it's what I see. Makes little sense to me to rationalize against Allen, and rationalize the opposite FOR rosen and Darnold.  And Darnold was horribly inaccurate early on in the first half. He and his offense just got overrun, and he choked.

Cal, I'm not going to go back and chart every pass Darnold threw. I already erased the tape. Don't know what game you were watching. There were at least a couple perfect 30+  yard sideline dimes. Amazing accuracy hitting crossing routes dead on the money with pressure in his face.

Choked? They got beat by a way superior team. That said, MHO is Sam probably will return to USC. If they had won, might be another story.

[TexasAg1969]

5 hours ago, boo fagley said:

Allen reminds me of Elway.

I didnt realize that Wyoming is close to Denver, but that has nothing to do with it. Talking arm strength and throwing a dart laterally downfield is why I make the Elway comparison. I have not seen that in the NFL since Elway. Brady doesnt have that type of passing strength. Allen never had players around him good enough to set foot on OSU and speaking of OSU their QBs suck.

NFL teams are somnewhat focused on wins in college. Ben beat up on chumps at Miami. Johnny Highball was a world beater in the SEC. There has not been a decent Alabama QB since Stabler when the mullet was in style. Mark Sanchez is folding NFL jock straps these days after setting the world on fire at USC. Win totals and schools and conferences are bull sh1t.

I would select Allen before any QB from OSU, Bama or USC.

Laramie is about 130 miles from Denver by road, closer as the crow flies. Couple of hours away.

[The Gipper]

18 hours ago, hoorta said:

Um no Gip- you're not watching enough, and Kizer has clouded your judgement. There's at least 4, and possibly more qbs (OK, some may not declare) that have shown me as much or more already as Trubisky. And you AND me loved us some Mitch. I want the pick of the litter, not more of this trade down BS. Trade the #4 if you must- but not the #1. 

Sorry no -I am just not seeing it maybe you were seeing something,  But I'm not seeing it out of any of these guys.

EDIT: had to clean up your phone stuff Gip.     

[Dutch Oven]

2 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Sorry no I am just not seeing it maybe you were singing something I'm not but I'm not seeing it out of any of these guysSorry no I am just not seeing it maybe you were singing something I'm not but I'm not seeing it out of any of these guys

Someone needs to turn Gipper off for 10 seconds and then turn him back on.

[hoorta]

3 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Sorry no -I am just not seeing it maybe you were seeing something,  But I'm not seeing it out of any of these guys.

EDIT: had to clean up your phone stuff Gip.     

We'll just disagree there Gip. This could be another 1983. 

 

2 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Someone needs to turn Gipper off for 10 seconds and then turn him back on.

I fixed it- (I think) the problem is when he posts from his phone, it duplicates what he's posting.  Maybe a couple times...  

[The Gipper]

17 minutes ago, hoorta said:

We'll just disagree there Gip. This could be another 1983. 

 

I fixed it- (I think) the problem is when he posts from his phone, it duplicates what he's posting.  Maybe a couple times...  

That is exactly what is happening and I have no clue whyThat is exactly what is happening and I have no clue why

[calfoxwc]

5 hours ago, hoorta said:

Cal, I'm not going to go back and chart every pass Darnold threw. I already erased the tape. Don't know what game you were watching. There were at least a couple perfect 30+  yard sideline dimes. Amazing accuracy hitting crossing routes dead on the money with pressure in his face.

Choked? They got beat by a way superior team. That said, MHO is Sam probably will return to USC. If they had won, might be another story.

A. I said he did prove himself in the bowl game as able to really throw some perfect throws. So did Allen.

B. It's bs to say Darnold had a tough game in his bowl game because he faced a better team, then never admit Allen

    has faced better teams. I like Darnold a lot - he didn't have a great cotton bowl. But on a good day, he can look like

    he's by far the best qb in this draft. He can really get it done. He had hickups in this game. His oline got overrun.

    But he DID have the ball way out in his hands again, and fumbled again.

C. Overall - he may very well be the best qb in the draft for the NFL, good enough for a first pick.

USC's Darnold 'best in the nation,' says Stanford coach - SFGate

www.sfgate.com/collegesports/.../USC-s-Darnold-best-in-the-nation-says-12184322.p...

 

D.   He didn't play well in the cotton bowl. It is not just me. He lost three fumbles, known for that. The interception.

 

Sam Darnold, Giants QB hopeful, struggles in Cotton Bowl loss - NY ...

www.nydailynews.com/.../sam-darnold-giants-qb-hopeful-struggles-cotton-bowl-loss-art...

 

Sam Darnold's swan song in the Cotton Bowl was more of an ugly duckling

Los Angeles Times · 16 hours ago

 

Sam Darnold struggles in USC's Cotton Bowl loss | SNY

https://www.sny.tv/giants/news/sam-darnold-struggles-in-uscs...bowl.../264112778

 

 

 

[calfoxwc]

Darnold absolutely DID wow folks with several blazing crossing routes, and a few other great throws. He has serious arm talent, the fans and his teammates and coaches LOVE him, he is a great kid, he just has ball security questions...He started the game early on, with some bad throws, inaccurate throws, or maybe? the wr wasn't on the same page.

I don't know. And yes, his offense was facing a defense that is going to put several players into the pros - and Ward did not even play in the bowl game. and Baker, Hubbard and Jones are three probable first round picks.

  But Darnold IS a battler, and can really turn it on, with all sorts of adversity in his face - that is priceless.

 so is his humility, and he has broad shoulders. I mean, he talks about how he played here:

      (but I changed my mind - I hope he comes out into the draft, and if we pick him, he will be great)