Camp Tyrod + Lamar

[tiamat63]

7 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

You paraphrased what I said incorrectly. 

I understand how math and statistics work. I get percentages.

I'm saying I saw Peppers knife through two players on WR screens, bubbles, etc to get to the ball carrier and disrupt the play. A lot of times he was diving or still had a blocker on him, meaning it was a difficult tackle to make. Most other DBs are just getting blocked there and not getting to the ball carrier. So does it count as a missed tackle? I guess. But it's still a net positive for the defense. That's what I said.

Not to mention Williams has been complimentary of Peppers tackling ability.

He has too seeing as he's the one that beat his fists on the table in support of drafting him.    Straight coaches pick.  

[MLD Woody]

Just now, tiamat63 said:

He has too seeing as he's the one that beat his fists on the table in support of drafting him.    Straight coaches pick.  

Then our talk at the auto show mattered more than I jokingly thought... Lol

 

But do you at least get the point I was trying to make regarding the tackles? Peppers is one of the only prospects you could hear people praise his tackling and then have someone else say it's terrible. You'd think it would be pretty straightforward

[tiamat63]

14 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

Then our talk at the auto show mattered more than I jokingly thought... Lol

 

But do you at least get the point I was trying to make regarding the tackles? Peppers is one of the only prospects you could hear people praise his tackling and then have someone else say it's terrible. You'd think it would be pretty straightforward

There's a difference.           His willingness to get his nose dirty blowing up screens and attacking the LOS is one thing.  His ability to secure tackles and to take proper angles has been and will continue to be another story.     

I know what you mean, but I still think you believed a bit of what you said in regards to how I interpreted it.  

[TexasAg1969]

Two FGs the second half-not good. But if Jackson stays and gets to pick, guess who he falls in love with? RG IV.

[MLD Woody]

3 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

There's a difference.           His willingness to get his nose dirty blowing up screens and attacking the LOS is one thing.  His ability to secure tackles and to take proper angles has been and will continue to be another story.     

I know what you mean, but I still think you believed a bit of what you said in regards to how I interpreted it.  

You interpreted as me not knowing how math works, lol. I understand all that. 

 

I'm not gonna defend his bad angle against TY. That was bad. I think that's been overshadowing regular tackles and angles though. He's made plenty of tackles.

Though maybe the position doesn't help. I saw Nacua take some terrible angles his one game too. But then again, he didn't have a ton of experience in game.

[tiamat63]

3 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

You interpreted as me not knowing how math works, lol. I understand all that. 

 

I'm not gonna defend his bad angle against TY. That was bad. I think that's been overshadowing regular tackles and angles though. He's made plenty of tackles.

Though maybe the position doesn't help. I saw Nacua take some terrible angles his one game too. But then again, he didn't have a ton of experience in game.

Christ, you're an engineering major from one of the top universities in the country... I'd hope you would know how math works. 

The angle against TY would be Jabrill's struggles in a microcosm.    They extend beyond that play too.    Nacua did some piss poor things including a blown assignment.   But his downhill recognition and ability to drive on a receiver or ball carrier was pretty good for a late round kid getting the nod.   

[Dutch Oven]

And Woody's 2017 Peppers Apology Tour rambles on toward 2018 with no let up!

[tiamat63]

Just now, Dutch Oven said:

And Woody's 2017 Peppers Apology Tour rambles on toward 2018 with no let up!

There's no apology tour needed.   He's still a decent kid with physical gifts but the mental makeup is everything.   The goods news is that there's an off season to improve.   

Do I expect it? Sure.      To the extent that would warrant how high Peppers was drafted in relation to the impact he 'should' have on this defense....?  Not so much.  

[Dutch Oven]

Just now, tiamat63 said:

There's no apology tour needed.   He's still a decent kid with physical gifts but the mental makeup is everything.   The goods news is that there's an off season to improve.   

Do I expect it? Sure.      To the extent that would warrant how high Peppers was drafted in relation to the impact he 'should' have on this defense....?  Not so much.  

I'm just joking around...

Let's get him in the strong safety spot where he belongs, then we'll see.

But I'll be honest, I wanted nothing to do with the Browns taking him that high, he just screamed: "Jack of All Trades, Master of None" to me. A guy whose athletic ability allows him to do many things in college, but doesn't have a specific skill set to allow him to thrive in the pros.

[MLD Woody]

12 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

I'm just joking around...

Let's get him in the strong safety spot where he belongs, then we'll see.

But I'll be honest, I wanted nothing to do with the Browns taking him that high, he just screamed: "Jack of All Trades, Master of None" to me. A guy whose athletic ability allows him to do many things in college, but doesn't have a specific skill set to allow him to thrive in the pros.

Well that wasn't on him in college. We moved him all around because he was our best player at 6 spots. He put the team first and hurt his draft stock. 

[MLD Woody]

17 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

There's no apology tour needed.   He's still a decent kid with physical gifts but the mental makeup is everything.   The goods news is that there's an off season to improve.   

Do I expect it? Sure.      To the extent that would warrant how high Peppers was drafted in relation to the impact he 'should' have on this defense....?  Not so much.  

What impact "should" someone have playing in a different zip code each play?

And of course he'll get better. As much as the athleticism is what you saw on the field, the coaches at Michigan loved his football IQ.

[Dutch Oven]

12 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

Well that wasn't on him in college. We moved him all around because he was our best player at 6 spots. He put the team first and hurt his draft stock. 

That's true, to a point. TTUN's coaching staff did him no favors pertaining to his future pro aspirations.

That being said, defensively, he really wasn't that productive. He produced next to no turnovers, correct?

[MLD Woody]

10 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

That's true, to a point. TTUN's coaching staff did him no favors pertaining to his future pro aspirations.

That being said, defensively, he really wasn't that productive. He produced next to no turnovers, correct?

Correct, but we didn't really put him in a position to pick the ball off much. He was mainly setting the edge, blitzing, etc. In what we asked him to do, and how we wanted him to disrupt offensive gameplans, he was very effective

[Dutch Oven]

Just now, MLD Woody said:

Correct, but we didn't really put him in a position to pick the ball off much. He was mainly setting the edge, blitzing, etc. In what we asked him to do, and how we wanted him to disrupt offensive gameplans, he was very effective

I guess the problem many people had with the Browns taking him in the first round was that he was a real "projection over production" type of guy.

But let's not dismiss the fact that he played at TTUN. There's a definite portion of the Browns fanbase who is not down with that, ever. I just want quality players, regardless of where they played college ball.

[syd]

5 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

 There's a definite portion of the Browns fanbase who is not down with that, ever. 

i never will understand that

[Bob806]

 

[Bob806]

...and I like Peppers, rooting for him. My son texted me these on Christmas Eve....2nd best present I got behind some Amish Country licorice lol.

[hoorta]

8 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

The football scouting expert has spoken. So it shall be

Lamar will make a fine running back\ kick returner in the pros. His qb game translates zero to a pro offense, & running around it's a quick trip to IR. 

[MLD Woody]

26 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Lamar will make a fine running back\ kick returner in the pros. His qb game translates zero to a pro offense, & running around it's a quick trip to IR. 

Vick did it

[Orion]

.....and I don't like Tyrod as our QB.

[LogicIsForSquares]

17 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

Vick did it

If Jackson could potentially be Mike Vick, I would be on board. Had the guy not had a penchant for fighting dogs, he would have had a much bigger career.

[LogicIsForSquares]

Going back and watching highlights of Vick, I forgot how much faster he was than everyone else. I don’t see that with Jackson.

[tiamat63]

51 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

Vick did it

Mike was THE best athlete on the field.   A QB with a rocket arm, quick release and ran a 4.3 with WR acceleration.

 

... that's not Lamar. 

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, MLD Woody said:

Vick did it

He's no Michael Vick- not even close... There are no old running qbs in the NFL, and Jackson's pocket skills leave a lot to be desired.... 

[MLD Woody]

I don't think we're anywhere near the point of worrying about a QB's performance 10 years down the road

[hoorta]

21 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

I don't think we're anywhere near the point of worrying about a QB's performance 10 years down the road

I'm worried about his performance in 2018-20 Woody- and I have around 4-6 quarterbacks I'd draft in April before I'd even consider taking Lamar. In fact- I don't even have him on my board- period. Let someone else take a chance on this guy- I'm not going to. I rate him lower than Josh Allen, and if you've been following my war of words with Cal- I don't like Allen at all. I don't give a crap about what the pundits and draft geeks say- I have Lamar as a 4th round talent. 

If you want to start a Camp Jackson, be my guest. I'm not joining.

[7moses7]

7 hours ago, hoorta said:

He's no Michael Vick- not even close... There are no old running qbs in the NFL, and Jackson's pocket skills leave a lot to be desired.... 

Jackson is a 1 read than run QB.  50% completion rate doesn’t work   we have one of those and it’s not working 

[TexasAg1969]

6 hours ago, hoorta said:

I'm worried about his performance in 2018-20 Woody- and I have around 4-6 quarterbacks I'd draft in April before I'd even consider taking Lamar. In fact- I don't even have him on my board- period. Let someone else take a chance on this guy- I'm not going to. I rate him lower than Josh Allen, and if you've been following my war of words with Cal- I don't like Allen at all. I don't give a crap about what the pundits and draft geeks say- I have Lamar as a 4th round talent. 

If you want to start a Camp Jackson, be my guest. I'm not joining.

+1

[jiggins7919]

10 hours ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

Going back and watching highlights of Vick, I forgot how much faster he was than everyone else. I don’t see that with Jackson.

You don't? Lamar might not have the same absurd "top end" speed that Vick once did, but he definitely looks like the fastest guy on the field to me. And what Lamar DOES have is the acceleration that virtually nobody else on the planet can match. He can go from standing still to blazing speed in about one step, which makes him a danger to explode forward at any time. Any small crease, any designed run, any time he sees man coverage and the field is open....he goes. Also, he's a very skilled runner, and adept at avoiding big hits. He's especially devastating around the goal line. 

Now, obviously there's more to playing QB than running the ball. Lamar will definitely have to work hard to become a good "pocket thrower", but he's a guy KNOWN to work hard and also very humble. In other words, I wouldn't bet against him. I'm not sure I want him on our team, but I might if we somehow signed someone like Alex Smith who could take the immediate pressure off of him. I'm not in love with Sam Darnold, and Rosen might not want to play for us anyway. Additionally, I think I heard Rosen had a shoulder injury and a concussion history (I could be wrong). Not sure about the status of the shoulder, it could be nothing, but it's worth looking into. 

So if it's not Darnold, Lamar, or Rosen...the only guy is Baker Mayfield? I don't see the Oklahoma State guy being a high enough draft pick, sooooooo....what do we do? The more I think about it, the more I think we're in deep trouble. Darnold isn't coming out after that game, is he? I guess he'll still be a top 10 pick, so maybe he will enter the draft. At any rate, I don't want him. The more I think about it, the more I'm to the point of, "It's a veteran QB or bust" in 2018. 

Case Keenum, Sam Bradford, Alex Smith, Tyrod Taylor (least favorite), Teddy Twatwater (after thorough physical obviously), Jay Cutler, and probably another I'm forgetting about are the most probable choices. Some will be free agents, some might be released, others might require a trade. Whatever the case, we can make it happen. And we better because I personally don't see ANY QBs in the 2018 draft that will come in and stabilize our nightmare. Oh, and I seriously doubt that Keenum will be available because the Vikings aren't dumb and they'll sign him. Our best shot remains Alex Smith, and while I doubt we'll win 11 or 12 games like the Chiefs did when he first arrived, I don't think a 5-7 win increase is out of the question. 

Edit:  7 wins with Alex Smith depends solely on the return of Josh Gordon, which we all know probably won't happen (going by historical evidence). Additionally, we need someone opposite Josh who can reliably get down the field and make plays. Sorry Corey, that ain't you (not yet anyway). 

[hoorta]

7 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

You don't? Lamar might not have the same absurd "top end" speed that Vick once did, but he definitely looks like the fastest guy on the field to me. And what Lamar DOES have is the acceleration that virtually nobody else on the planet can match. He can go from standing still to blazing speed in about one step, which makes him a danger to explode forward at any time. Any small crease, any designed run, any time he sees man coverage and the field is open....he goes. Also, he's a very skilled runner, and adept at avoiding big hits. He's especially devastating around the goal line. 

Now, obviously there's more to playing QB than running the ball. Lamar will definitely have to work hard to become a good "pocket thrower", but he's a guy KNOWN to work hard and also very humble. In other words, I wouldn't bet against him. I'm not sure I want him on our team, but I might if we somehow signed someone like Alex Smith who could take the immediate pressure off of him. I'm not in love with Sam Darnold, and Rosen might not want to play for us anyway. Additionally, I think I heard Rosen had a shoulder injury and a concussion history (I could be wrong). Not sure about the status of the shoulder, it could be nothing, but it's worth looking into. 

So if it's not Darnold, Lamar, or Rosen...the only guy is Baker Mayfield? I don't see the Oklahoma State guy being a high enough draft pick, sooooooo....what do we do? The more I think about it, the more I think we're in deep trouble. Darnold isn't coming out after that game, is he? I guess he'll still be a top 10 pick, so maybe he will enter the draft. At any rate, I don't want him. The more I think about it, the more I'm to the point of, "It's a veteran QB or bust" in 2018. 

Case Keenum, Sam Bradford, Alex Smith, Tyrod Taylor (least favorite), Teddy Twatwater (after thorough physical obviously), Jay Cutler, and probably another I'm forgetting about are the most probable choices. Some will be free agents, some might be released, others might require a trade. Whatever the case, we can make it happen. And we better because I personally don't see ANY QBs in the 2018 draft that will come in and stabilize our nightmare. Oh, and I seriously doubt that Keenum will be available because the Vikings aren't dumb and they'll sign him. Our best shot remains Alex Smith, and while I doubt we'll win 11 or 12 games like the Chiefs did when he first arrived, I don't think a 5-7 win increase is out of the question. 

Edit:  7 wins with Alex Smith depends solely on the return of Josh Gordon, which we all know probably won't happen (going by historical evidence). Additionally, we need someone opposite Josh who can reliably get down the field and make plays. Sorry Corey, that ain't you (not yet anyway). 

I'm not as down on Mayfield as you are. The other guys- sure, and Baker has his detractors. Let's watch playoffs, and then we can talk.