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Who's #1?


Flugel

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13 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Yes....but WHAT is the meaning of all this suffering?   

I think it was the Buddha who said "to live is to suffer." The goal is to end the karmic cycle to end suffering. So us Browns fans should all kill ourselves.  :lol: 

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20 minutes ago, hoorta said:

I think it was the Buddha who said "to live is to suffer." The goal is to end the karmic cycle to end suffering. So us Browns fans should all kill ourselves.  :lol: 

That does not end the karmic cycle...that actually perpetuates it. 

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3 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

That does not end the karmic cycle...that actually perpetuates it. 

You need to to brush up on your Buddhism Gip. When you attain Nirvana, you're out of the Karmic cycle for good...   Yeah, we're all coming back as frogs next time. 

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3 minutes ago, hoorta said:

You need to to brush up on your Buddhism Gip. When you attain Nirvana, you're out of the Karmic cycle for good...   Yeah, we're all coming back as frogs next time. 

You need to read up on your Buddhism.  Killing yourself does NOT lead to Nirvana....in fact it leads you further away from it.  There may be no more negative karmic flow than to commit suicide.

Now...if you said that we should all go out and purchase white elephants to get closer to Nirvana...that would be more productive.

To+free+your+soul+from+suffering+and+ach

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Saquon Barkley is #1 Overall.

We should take Barkley, he's a special type of player. I think he's better than Trent... He has the vision, the speed, the balance, hands and leaping ability that is going to lead to a lot of points for the team that drafts him. I hope it's us.  

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25 minutes ago, PoeticG said:

Saquon Barkley is #1 Overall.

We should take Barkley, he's a special type of player. I think he's better than Trent... He has the vision, the speed, the balance, hands and leaping ability that is going to lead to a lot of points for the team that drafts him. I hope it's us.  

PO, I'm not saying don't draft Barkley- just not @ #1 overall. Or you think Saquon is magically going to turn Kizer into a HOF QB? (Just drop the Hogan love BTW) We aren't playing qb roulette April 2018,  hoping the guy we want falls to us @ #4. It's WAY more likely the other way around. 

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7 hours ago, PoeticG said:

Saquon Barkley is #1 Overall.

We should take Barkley, he's a special type of player. I think he's better than Trent... He has the vision, the speed, the balance, hands and leaping ability that is going to lead to a lot of points for the team that drafts him. I hope it's us.  

Barkley is the best player entering the Draft in your mind, because you think he's better than Trent Richardson.

You just can't argue against logic like that.

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On 1/3/2018 at 11:44 PM, calfoxwc said:

lol. I don't dislike Darnold, although the many fumbles are strange. If the Browns draft him or Allen, or even Rudolph, I'll  be happy happy happy. I just think it's Allen. Somebody mentioned that Allen has an injury history for how he's played the game.

It's true. So has rosen. But he said THAT "didn't matter".... that's what is annoying about all this stuff. There are no counter arguments about his character/personality. That is a concern many have, I've posted as much. Will it be a problem? Nobody knows, but a lot of folks are concerned about it.

Well, we DO have a t-shirt that might need to go from XXXL to Tent-size in order to capture every QB's name that didn't survive the challenges of Adversity University on the shore of Lake Erie. 

This could be wrong but I have a bad feeling Rosen is going to be the football version of Yao Ming in the fragility sense of "made in China stayed on sideline."  Or, with the concussion inventory already rivaling that of Evan Moore - how close is he to the point of no return?   Before he had a bruised back and a sore knee sidelining him this season - he had a shoulder injury and multiple concussions that sidelined him prior  to that.  He's the son of one of the best back surgeons in the world and a frat boy just in case anyone forgot the last brat QB we drafted in round 1 from a lot of money and coddling.  This knucklehead thought Manziel would be able to grow out of the party boy thing like Favre, Kelly and many others eventually did.  WRONG!  Usually I like a QB that has a great intellect reflected by a 3.8 GPA; but I get the sense Rosen doesn't want any part of the mental and physical growing pains that will come with the territory.  College football was even too tough for this kid so I don't see a perfect match for life in the AFC North with this kid.  Neither does he or he wouldn't already be announcing he prefers to play for the New Jersey Giants.  Then again, if the Giants get their most talented WRs back healthy - it offers a bigger shot at success for a young QB than we've been equipping our Rent-A-Wrecks and inexperienced QBs with. Hard to blame him there because the world outside of us (and within) doesn't see a franchise/FO committed to making this a QB friendly environment since 1999. Until that changes, nothing changes here...

Is Rosen talented?   Absolutely!  As early as 8th or 9th grade - he was getting a ton of press about a great future in the NFL.  Elite talent at QB will always be a temptation here.  There's going to be fans that want him.   

As for Allen, he doesn't have a big enough body of excellence against top caliber opponents for me to get pumped up about with our 1st or 4th pick. This season he only threw 13 TD passes heading into his Bowl Game (even though he also only threw 6 INTs).  He was about as sought after coming out of high school as Santa Claus, Indiana's Jay Cutler.  All that said, I enjoyed Allen's performance in the Bowl Game.  I saw a strong arm with accuracy; very good mobility and nice accuracy throwing on the run.  He can also throw touch passes none of our bionic armed QBs like DA, Weeden and Kizer exemplified very often.  He has ideal/prototypical height.  The question I have is how does a guy that wasn't good enough for BIG time college football go from ho-humsies to being the answer to all of Cleveland's problems?

My faves in random order are Mayfield, Rudolph, and Darnold. 

 

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Actually Manziel just did not grow up fast enough. He has been meeting all the requirements placed on him by the CFL for the past year and was recently approved by the league to sign a contract with those requirements still intact. That was after a thorough background investigation to insure he is meeting the requirements. And the Tiger-Cats just traded out their #1 QB to make room for him. Expect a contract signature soon and football in late spring just on the other side of the lake. Maybe he can take his former party boat over to save Hue when he jumps in. Just a couple years late is all.:D

Oh, and there is a coach there in Hamilton that actually believes in him, unlike his last little gig.

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On 1/4/2018 at 6:38 AM, jiggins7919 said:

You're definitely not wrong. Like I've said before, I'm not stupid...I know how difficult the sell is, and we're really banking on the size of the checkbook AND Hue Jackson's reputation as somebody people want to play for. Regardless of his record, Hue is still regarded highly in the NFL. It's the reason we heard rumors about him going back to Cincy, and it's the primary reason we are bringing him back. 

Also consider this:  Several of the teams we played against made comments like, "This team is almost there" and "They're going to surprise some people very soon". We didn't have the reputation as being a team you just walked in a ran out of the stadium. We may have lost every game, but we made just about everyone work for it. We're closer than you think. Really, no QB wants to come to a place without an OL or weapons. We have the OL pretty much in place, but we need weapons. If we KNEW Gordon was coming back, it'd be a MUCH easier sell to QBs. They know how much easier the game becomes with him in it. Toss in Duke, Njoku, Devalve, Corey, and you might have something. 

I hope so.  Before we lost the #1 rated DE against the run via PFF (Ogbah), Meder and Collins while Shelton and Garrett (missed time and played through injuries) - we were vastly improved against the run particularly in the front 7.  FWIW, Ogbah was also leading us in sacks (with 5) while it seemed like he also led us in causing fumbles prior to him going on IR.  The front 7 is a huge area of promise especially against the run if we get Garrett, Ogbah, Meder and Collins back healthier.  Even though we lined up our Safeties in another time zone which had people worrying about how our MLB was handling both inside hook zones with unrealistic zone transition deep - Schobert drastically improved against the run.  He's a Pro Bowl alternate because of it.

Unfortunately, it's a passing era.  The 31 year old McCourty played well until he played on an injured ankle. That was a better pickup than I thought but he will be 32 years old this year. The FO overrated the crap out of Jamar Taylor while our 4th round pick Howard Wilson got injured and never saw the field.  Boddy-Calhoun seems reliable when called upon.  Needless to say we need help and better depth at this position.  The Safety positions also lack experience, consistency and depth while the back end alignments and schemes seemed like an extended head scratcher.  That said, Gregg Williams has coached up some Pro Bowl Safeties like Blaine Bishop (TN), Malcolm Jenkins (NO), Sean Taylor (Wash) so I'm guessing he knows what he's doing with the personnel at hand.  He's ranked in the top 10 5 times for pts allowed and 6 times for yardage (inclusive of two #1 rankings pts vrs and two #2 rankings yds).  Secondary is a HUGE need if we ever want to see Gregg Williams back on this level.

Offensively, our WR Corps is a train wreck. As happy as we were to see Josh Gordon the last 5 games - this group hasn't competed up to snuff.  Even worse, neither has the QB position.  We still don't have a dual purpose TE above ho-hum while we hope Njoku can establish more consistency in his limited role.

With the exception of Duke Johnson's invaluable productivity (part time), our gridiron chess table still looks like were set up to attack exclusively with pawns until our FO changes this. Let's hope Dorsey can bring us the magic especially with the 5 picks in the first 2 rounds he's inheriting.  We shall see...

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On 1/3/2018 at 10:44 PM, calfoxwc said:

There are no counter arguments about his character/personality.

Missed this earlier...

There have been plenty of counter arguments, counter accounts laid out by myself and others.

This is typical of all your arguments. When reports are presented that don't fit your narrative, you dismiss them out of hand while all support of your conclusion is unchallenged.

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6 hours ago, Flugel said:

This could be wrong but I have a bad feeling Rosen is going to be the football version of Yao Ming in the fragility sense of "made in China stayed on sideline."  Or, with the concussion inventory already rivaling that of Evan Moore - how close is he to the point of no return?   Before he had a bruised back and a sore knee sidelining him this season - he had a shoulder injury and multiple concussions that sidelined him prior  to that.

The kid missed 7 games in three years. Six were attributable to the shoulder injury. So every other "concern" you voice contributed a grand total of one missed game.

Not saying there is zero question, but I can't medically DQ him. And his talent level far outweighs any medical concerns.

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Got a chuckle out of this tweet...

Chris FedorVerified account @ChrisFedor

My sources tell me #Browns Hue Jackson's favorite QB in the draft is whichever one looks the best in the early 2018 NFL season, so he can then take credit for liking that guy after the fact...

5:19 PM - 3 Jan 2018
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16 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

The kid missed 7 games in three years. Six were attributable to the shoulder injury. So every other "concern" you voice contributed a grand total of one missed game.

Not saying there is zero question, but I can't medically DQ him. And his talent level far outweighs any medical concerns.

If this was any place but Cleveland - you might have reeled me in Tour.

Let's keep in mind missed games doesn't tell us how many times he couldn't finish starts.  For example, he left a nationally televised night game early vrs Cal for a bruised back.  And then there's the multiple concussions issue I've read about more than once leading me to believe he's left many of those early too.  So, it's not just missing starts for the shoulder or a sore knee.  Even if everything under the neck is all healed up, Rosen would show up to Cleveland/AFC North with multiple concussions on his resume.

I already agreed his talent is tempting (just like DeShaun Watson's talent was).  Watson was 1 of my favorite 2 QBs last draft; but his style of play increasing risk of injury was the main reason I never had him on my wish list at #1 or #12.  Well, he went on IR really early in his rookie year.  Teddy B was another prospect with intriguing talent that many scouts worried about staying healthy with his frame. Just like Watson, he got hurt in a non contact practice drill a few years ago (hasn't played since).  So what trumped talent both times?  Injury.  

Not only does a QB have to be right for Cleveland - but Cleveland has to be right for a QB.  There's a t-shirt with a ton of names on it reminding us of this all the time. Let's hope this gets better. 

 

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50 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

So who Flugel is the right QB for Cleveland out of this draft?

Maybe they could draft 3 or 4 of them and have one hell of a rookie quarterback tryout competition. 

No seriously now who knows? Will their only somewhat talent at WR Flash Gordon stay clean? Will they draft the best WR in the draft (my choice at #1 or 4)? Will former #1 WR pick Rock Coleman find Jesus or learn how to look the ball into his hands? Will the BROWNS draft the best RB in the draft to help out? Will Joe Thomas officially retire? If so who will replace him? Will the BROWNS have an A or A+ draft? 

Answer these questions and maybe we'll have a clue who might be quarterback #26 or is it #28 or #30 best fit savior for the BROWNS.......yeah I'm sure we know that in January or April before the next #1 pick is even announced.  Welcome to Cleveland Browns football!

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1 minute ago, Dutch Oven said:

So who Flugel is the right QB for Cleveland out of this draft?

That was my question to you guys and I've enjoyed the posts and discussion in here from yuz all. As I mentioned - I don't think we need to hurry to crown 1 guy king just yet.  I also said all guys have flaws before listing my 3 faves at this time in random order are: Mayfield, Darnold and Rudolph. 

Something got me thinking very recently.  Uh-oh!  Anyway, the NFL channel scrolled that Cam Newton has either fumbled, been sacked or intercepted on 60 plays this year.  That said, he's also sported the talent to overcome all that to the extent his team will be playing in the post season again this year.  And after coming off a surgery to his throwing arm/shoulder this off season, he's missed his go-to guy (TE Greg Olson) most of the year while the running game has been inconsistent.  So what has Carolina done or had in place to help him?  They had a talent like Kelvin Benjamin up until they traded him to Buffalo near the trade deadline. They drafted McCaffery who catches a lot of short passes in lieu of handing off. They also drafted Curtis Samuel in round 2. They play good defense and get turnovers for him.  And now they have Olson back. 

I'm getting sick of seeing an unacceptable WR corps the last 2 years, which was a BIG reason I also said Cleveland needs to be right for a QB.  If we want an accurate QB that can quick trigger a defense - we have to raise the bar on the perimeter to make such a thing possible.  It wasn't just young QBs eating the football in the pocket holding onto it too long the last 2-3 years.  WRs aren't always running the right route or a good enough route.  To compound that, we've also had accuracy issues from QB or timing issues of getting the ball on time creating trust issues between QB and WRs.  Just when we think we don't have any more room for error - we get guys dropping passes.  And then there's been sacks and/or injuries to QBs in the last 3 seasons.  We HAVE to make this a lot more QB friendly if we ever want to recruit decent WR help in FA - plus we have to draft better WRs.  The only elite WR talent we drafted required the supplemental draft and the patience of a bunch of suspensions that followed that.  Right now, I don't see the type of WR talent that can accommodate the quick trigger accuracy we need in order to keep a QB healthy and defenses on their heels.

Mayfield - If anyone thinks he's a Manziel-esque running man - I encourage you to compare the drastic difference in their rushing stats their final 2 years of college ball and the truth will set you free.  Heading into the double OT loss with 48 points - what's not to like about a completion percentage over 70% and 41 TDs to 5 INTs?  What's not to like about a guy who can throw people open or complete a pass to a guy that's covered reasonably well?  I don't get the sense he's nearly as programmed to take off and scramble as soon as the first read is taken away from him like Lamar Jackson. My biggest concerns?   His height and not everyone challenged his ability to get rid of the ball quickly except UGA who forced an INT on 1 of those occasions.  That said, beating Ohio State at Columbus should count if people are going to emphasize Darnold couldn't beat them.  My biggest concerns if he came here?  The extreme drop-off in surrounding help where it is needed most.  He comes from a situation where his team was better than most of his opponents so Cleveland could be a culture shock of feeling like he got demoted to Oklahoma's junior varsity team.

Darnold - I like that he's shown me he can overcome some early adversity in both of his Pac 12 Championship seasons.  If anyone watched him beating the Big 10 Champions in the Bowl Game last year - it was a powerful enough impression to make you forgive some of this year's sins behind Center.  Not to mention, he threw 31 TDs to just 9 INTs as a freshman.  Just like the NFL Channel scrolling about Cam Newton's sacks, fumbles and INTs on 60 plays this year - guess who led his team into the post season game in a similar kind of year?   If some of his best passes were caught or not fumbled vrs OSU plus a little more luck with the FG - that's a much closer game with him not feeling like Darnold Duck.  I didn't see that problem when JuJu Smith was on the other side of formation.  Love his size and accuracy.  My biggest concerns?  Still gotta clean up that fumbling, which has kept me from prematurely crowning him Gran Poobah.  My biggest concerns if he came here?  Hue's going to over-diaper the offense into park again; and the poor kid going to feel like Nurse Ratchid is our OC and OB coach.  We also gotta raise the bar significantly on the perimeter.

Mason Rudolph - He's done everything extremely well the last 3 years inclusive of 3 consecutive 10 win seasons.  His TD:INT ratios went from 21-9 to 28:4 to 37:9 while his comp % slow climbed or crawled from 62.3 to 63.4 to 65.  He's got an ideal height of 6'5".  I've seen him play and progress every single year. He looks like an ideal prospect for the right team.   Concerns?  I still don't know if he can be the quick trigger accurate guy because I'm not sure there's been a lot of opponents that have demanded that from him.  This isn't just exclusive to the Big 12 any more (like it used to be).   My biggest concerns if he came here? Here I go again with - are we the right team?  A QB without a WR Corps is a like a day with sunshine...  

Just as important as the QB we choose - is the play makers we equip him with. As "well duh" as that sounds - we're not 4-49 in our last 53 games by accident. 

 

 

 

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