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Why not Minkah at #1


The Gipper
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The thought struck me that I have been hearing how this Minkah Fitzpatrick seems to be by far the #1 guy ahead of anyone else at his position in this draft.  At any other possible position you have what seems to be some debate about who the best player at those spots are,  but not this guy.    And he fills a spot of desperate need for the Browns:  Free Safety.

So, with the Browns having #1 and #4...it seems to me that IF there is a guy that they should NOT miss out on....it should be this guy....and not one of the QBs.

As I see it...the deal is like this:    The Giants at #2 likely WILL take a QB......and the Colts since they will have Luck in the fold will NOT likely get a QB....but they could take Minkah out from under us if we wait until  #4 to grab him.

So...lets say that the Giants take either Rosen or Darnold....who really cares?   Maybe a few of you who are unreasonably emotionally invested in one or the other of these guys.....but that is just you all being PoGish.     The Browns WILL get one of them.......but the guy they REALLY need is this DB.  So why not take him #1?  Simply because a DB has never been the #1 pick in the draft?   The highest a DB has ever been drafted is #2....Eric Turner...by the Browns.  

So....we get the guy that has no one comparable to him   (or would some of you argue Derwin James...though he is SS) in Fitzpatrick.....and we still get one of the QBs out of the quagmire of them that are out there.   (between Rosen/Mayfield/Allen/Darnold/Rudolph/Jackson) 

It is worth consideration. 

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IF we get that experienced QB that can actually BE the Browns QB while serving as a mentor a few years, I'd be more than happy to go Fitz first and whichever QB is available @ 4. However if the Browns are really set on one particular QB, then don't mess around. There will be other very excellent players @#4 and maybe even Fitz. I'd chance it if I had decided Rosen or Darnold was definitely the best to be had (If it's Allen just shoot me).

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6 minutes ago, darren15 said:

I want a vet QB then that lets us take Minkah at 1 and Barkley at 4, no QB in this years draft is a top 5 pick IMO

I believe that if you just look at prospect rankings....they mostly agree with you.    The Mock Drafts don't...because unlike player rankings, Mock drafts try to guess what teams WILL do....not what they should do.   The QB position being what it is.....with so many teams needing one....and the position being overdrafted...indeed, Mock drafts have the QBs going off the top.

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2 minutes ago, darren15 said:

I want a vet QB then that lets us take Minkah at 1 and Barkley at 4, no QB in this years draft is a top 5 pick IMO

trouble is, rb careers are usually a whole lot shorter than a lot of other positions - thusly the return is questionable

for that high a pick.  But Fitz is all that -

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/championship-matchups-hurts-smith-fromm-fitzpatrick-52143536

Georgia QB Jake Fromm vs. Alabama S Minkah Fitzpatrick

This is a different kind of matchup than Hurts-Smith, because Fromm is not a running threat. The challenge for the freshman quarterback will be identifying where Fitzpatrick is lined up from play to play because Alabama uses the All-American everywhere: safety, cornerback and linebacker. He is even used as an edge rusher. Defensive coordinator Jeremy Pruitt does not call a lot of blitzes, but when he does Fitzpatrick is often the guy Alabama brings. Or he can show blitz with Fitzpatrick and have him back out and seamlessly drop into coverage.

Fromm has shown the poise of a veteran all season, but Saban's defenses have been known to fluster even experienced quarterbacks and Fitzpatrick is an extension of Saban on the field.

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1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

As I see it...the deal is like this:    The Giants at #2 likely WILL take a QB......and the Colts since they will have Luck in the fold will NOT likely get a QB....but they could take Minkah out from under us if we wait until  #4 to grab him.

So...lets say that the Giants take either Rosen or Darnold....who really cares?   Maybe a few of you who are unreasonably emotionally invested in one or the other of these guys.....but that is just you all being PoGish.     The Browns WILL get one of them.......but the guy they REALLY need is this DB.

LOL... is that what you've "heard"? This is you being your most Gipperish...

Are the Colts prohibited from trading the #3 overall to a QB needy team?

You first take the player that can make the most difference for your team. If after evaluation of the class a QB and a DB end up in the same, top-of-the-first-round grouping of players and you are not set at QB, then you take the QB first.... every day of the week and twice on Draft Day.... it's not even close... no matter if the DB is a FS or a CB.

 

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1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

LOL... is that what you've "heard"? This is you being your most Gipperish...

By that I assume you mean I am being intelligent, insightful and astute....which I am.

Are the Colts prohibited from trading the #3 overall to a QB needy team?

No....but if they do....again...who cares.   You got a mixed bag of QBs available in this draft....and the third one taken is likely no better than the first one.  Does it matter really if you miss on both Blaine Gabbert and Christian Ponder?

You first take the player that can make the most difference for your team. If after evaluation of the class a QB and a DB end up in the same, top-of-the-first-round grouping of players and you are not set at QB, then you take the QB first.... every day of the week and twice on Draft Day.... it's not even close... no matter if the DB is a FS or a CB.

Fair enough....if a QB grades as good as a DB....sure, we would have to take the QB.  But if all we have to choose from is Tweedledum, Tweedledee, Tweedledick and Tweedledork....lat QB.....then you go the other right. 

But lets put it this way....if as some say is true and Dorsey is all over Allen's knob....and if he thinks Allen is in the top of the first round grouping...you would not be happy and you might prefer that we get the DB, then get your boy at QB at #4.

It may come down to: do we take the best PLAYER in this draft....or do we take who is the best perceived QB in the draft.

 

 

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5 hours ago, The Gipper said:

The thought struck me that I have been hearing how this Minkah Fitzpatrick seems to be by far the #1 guy ahead of anyone else at his position in this draft.  At any other possible position you have what seems to be some debate about who the best player at those spots are,  but not this guy.    And he fills a spot of desperate need for the Browns:  Free Safety.

So, with the Browns having #1 and #4...it seems to me that IF there is a guy that they should NOT miss out on....it should be this guy....and not one of the QBs.

As I see it...the deal is like this:    The Giants at #2 likely WILL take a QB......and the Colts since they will have Luck in the fold will NOT likely get a QB....but they could take Minkah out from under us if we wait until  #4 to grab him.

So...lets say that the Giants take either Rosen or Darnold....who really cares?   Maybe a few of you who are unreasonably emotionally invested in one or the other of these guys.....but that is just you all being PoGish.     The Browns WILL get one of them.......but the guy they REALLY need is this DB.  So why not take him #1?  Simply because a DB has never been the #1 pick in the draft?   The highest a DB has ever been drafted is #2....Eric Turner...by the Browns.  

So....we get the guy that has no one comparable to him   (or would some of you argue Derwin James...though he is SS) in Fitzpatrick.....and we still get one of the QBs out of the quagmire of them that are out there.   (between Rosen/Mayfield/Allen/Darnold/Rudolph/Jackson) 

It is worth consideration. 

 no way in hell do we pass up on a QB at #1 and i would think that the colts with as many holes as they have would love to trade back and it that happens both Darnold and rosen could be gone

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Just now, syd said:

 no way in hell do we pass up on a QB at #1 and i would think that the colts with as many holes as they have would love to trade back and it that happens both Darnold and rosen could be gone

My point is yea? So?Darnold and Rosen may not be anywhere as good at playing their position as Minkah is at his.   Some don't even have Darnold and Rosen or either as being in the top 2 at their positions. 

As Tour said....if you have an absolutely No Brainer at QB...you go for the QB......but neither of those guys are considered a no brainer by any means.

 

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I'm thinking that I would rather take a definate pro bowl player at another position, than simply take a qb at the first pick. It depends. Truth is, I'd love to trade out of the first pick a few spots, talk up  rosen, and let some other team have him, and happily run with more picks, and then pick whichever qb you think is THE GUY to lead your team to greatness, etc. I love the way Allen plays, I like Darnold, but alllll the fumbles...I don't get it...Muh Son Rudolph is a better all around pick, than rosen, to me. I'd be fine with the 3 and 4 pick this first round, and take Minkah and the bpa after that, and maybe trade back up and get your qb...if you really figure he falls that far. Big risk. I don't know....it's going to be fascinating to watch. DB, QB, WR.

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34 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

My point is yea? So?Darnold and Rosen may not be anywhere as good at playing their position as Minkah is at his.   Some don't even have Darnold and Rosen or either as being in the top 2 at their positions. 

As Tour said....if you have an absolutely No Brainer at QB...you go for the QB......but neither of those guys are considered a no brainer by any means.

 

so you are saying to wait till the 2nd or 3rd round to draft a qb or maybe even the 4th

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23 minutes ago, syd said:

so you are saying to wait till the 2nd or 3rd round to draft a qb or maybe even the 4th

I am saying perhaps wait until the 4th pick...

I guess the question is:  which player stands out head and shoulders above all others.   Last year, many thought it was Garrett....and that Garrett was the no brainer first pick....even though our greater need was for a QB....we didn't go QB..we went for the BPA supposed "no brainer".  

Why should we not do the same this year ?  Go for the BPA? In my opinion and that of many others, there were a couple of QBs last year that were much better than the crop available this year.....and we MAY have some players available in the draft  who far more qualify for BPA  than the QBs on the board.

I would rather go for the BPA....than overdraft a questionable QB.   And we may have choices at QB at #4 every bit as good as we have at #1....as perhaps the guy at QB we would feel obligated to get at #1  would be "just a guy"....and not a once every 5-7 year guy.

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Again....Mock Drafts are only predictions of what teams might do....not of what they should do.  They do not rank the best prospects...they just say what they think teams will do.  And teams will always "overdraft"  QBs...because of the importance and needs at the position.  But here is one guy's opinion:  Matt Miller of the Bleacher Report, on who are the best players...irregardless of position:

Rank Player School
1 RB Saquon Barkley Penn State
2 S Minkah Fitzpatrick  Alabama
3 OG Quenton Nelson Notre Dame
4 LB Roquan Smith Georgia
5 QB Josh Rosen UCLA
6 DE Bradley Chubb NC State
7 QB Sam Darnold USC
8 OT Connor Williams Texas
9 RB Derrius Guice LSU
10 CB Josh Jackson Iowa

 

So, per this, in theory....any QB we want SHOULD be available at #4  (not that they will. 

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I do not want a D guy at #1 even if we sign Cousins as our long term FQB. This team has to draft someone at #1 that puts 10 or more TD's on the board. I guess that will be Barkley  or a QB. I am going to watch the draft on our oldest smallest TV so that if we do draft someone like Minkah at one I wont mind so much replacing the TV lol

Mind you I am fine with Minkah at 4

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2 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

WalterFootball's Big Board is similar:  Only Rosen at #7 is listed as a Top 10 prospect:

http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftbigboard

What do you think Carson Wentz was rated as an overall prospect when he entered? Or Goff?

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6 minutes ago, jcam222 said:

I do not want a D guy at #1 even if we sign Cousins as our long term FQB. This team has to draft someone at #1 that puts 10 or more TD's on the board. I guess that will be Barkley  or a QB. I am going to watch the draft on our oldest smallest TV so that if we do draft someone like Minkah at one I wont mind so much replacing the TV lol

Mind you I am fine with Minkah at 4

Well.....a lot more of the "big boards" have Barkley at the top or close to the top than they have any of the QBs up there.

But, I am not sure.   I think by far our two greatest needs are at QB and in the defensive backfield.

I am only saying that it seems that perhaps the "Garrett" of this draft is not the QB...but is that DB....and that any one of several QBs could be had at #4....and that it is an apparent mixed bag at QB such that getting one at #4 may be no worse than taking one at #1.

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another thing we have never developed a qb we just throw em out there also their is not gonna be another Andrew luck he started for three and a half years at Stanford most qb's these days come out after two the exception being Watson and he played well while healthy

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2 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

I'm sorry Gip, but if the Browns get cute and skip QB with their 1st pick again I'm going to officially go oobatz.

Totally on the Fitzpatrick bandwagon though.

 

Yea?  Which QB?   Like I am saying...it seems by all accounts that Minkah is head and shoulders above any one else that plays that position...and head and shoulders above any of the QBs.  

We have the luxury of getting him...and getting maybe the best QB out of the bunch...and it is a bunch....

I know Tour is on Rosen's knob.  I know Cal is on Allen's knob. I know some are on Mayfield's knob...and perhaps some are on  Darnold's knob.  

There is NO consensus #1 QB.   Minkah IS fairly well the consensus #1 DB.   Though he is not the consensus #1 pick.   A lot put Chubb of NC State on there....but no one would predict we would take him due to us having taken Garrett last year at the same position.  And no one projects Minkah at #1 because no DB has ever gone #1.

I guess I may be OK with this:    We take whatever from the grab bag of QBs at #1.....as long as we know also that the Giants are going to also grab in that same QB bag...and that the Colts are not going to go for Minkah...so we can get him at #4.  We have to see what their needs are.

In theory I guess we could do this:

Take a QB at #1.   Trade our #4 to the Giants at #2 and take Minkah .....as long as the Giants are secure in believing that the Colts will not take a QB...or trade down to let someone else who is QB needy trade up to get the one they want.

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9 minutes ago, syd said:

c'mon unless you are the Browns QB'S allways come off the board first so the Hell with the rankings if there is a QB they covet grab him at #1 it would be insane to wait till later

But...my point is that there are none worth "coveting" at #1.   The guy to covet does not play QB...and they can get one at #4.

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18 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

I'm sorry Gip, but if the Browns get cute and skip QB with their 1st pick again I'm going to officially go oobatz.

Totally on the Fitzpatrick bandwagon though.

 

Well....it would not be getting cute if they skipped the QB and went for the BPA...if the QBs on the board are, as I said, a mixed bag.

And answer me this:  by your analysis then the Browns "got cute" last year by skipping the QB  (twice).  Two QBs last year that I think perhaps are better than the Jambalaya at QBs we have this year.

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17 minutes ago, syd said:

another thing we have never developed a qb we just throw em out there also their is not gonna be another Andrew luck he started for three and a half years at Stanford most qb's these days come out after two the exception being Watson and he played well while healthy

If there were an Andrew Luck in this draft....then we wouldn't be having this debate.   I think it also questionable if we have a Watson in this draft.

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