Cousins would "seriously consider" the Browns

[Tour2ma]

13 minutes ago, hoorta said:

I'll echo Tour here... the Browns having the #1 overall two years in a row hasn't happened since '99 and '00. It's the bird in the hand argument.  I don't see Cousins as significantly better than Smith. He'll just have a longer shelf life by a few years. By all accounts- and using my own eyes, this is a loaded QB class. The time to swing for the fences is now. Assuming the usual progression of things, we hopefully won't be in the pole position in the draft for a long time. We just saw what drafting a QB project in the second round looks like. 

MHO is this isn't the year "to play it safe". Take the top 2 prospects @ #1 & #4 (one better be a qb) and don't look back.  

Agree... biggest difference in FA QBs that I see is the $$$ commitment required to land Cousins.

 

And, yes, I know "cap space"... but if folks out there don't believe we can rush down the path to a cap crunch by overpaying Cousins and other positional FAs just because we can today, then I don't know what to tell them.

[Tour2ma]

This is why we trade for Smith...

Adam Schefter: If Jaguars can sign Kirk Cousins or Alex Smith, they’ll move on from Blake Bortles

https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2018/1/24/16929264/adam-schefter-jacksonville-jaguars-sign-kirk-cousins-alex-smith-move-on-from-blake-bortles

[gumby73]

4 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

This is why we trade for Smith...

Adam Schefter: If Jaguars can sign Kirk Cousins or Alex Smith, they’ll move on from Blake Bortles

https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2018/1/24/16929264/adam-schefter-jacksonville-jaguars-sign-kirk-cousins-alex-smith-move-on-from-blake-bortles

Bortles cap hit is like 19M signed till 2019, Jags have 25K of cap space. Smith can only be traded for this season..Think KC likes the thought of a 19M back-up in Bortles?( I'd keep Smith) Bills(#21/#22) or Zona(#15) worry me more about grabbing Alex?( 2nd or 3rd round) Both also should worry Jets or Elway giving up a boatload to get to #2 or #3.. 

[hoorta]

5 hours ago, gumby73 said:

Bortles cap hit is like 19M signed till 2019, Jags have 25K of cap space. Smith can only be traded for this season..Think KC likes the thought of a 19M back-up in Bortles?( I'd keep Smith) Bills(#21/#22) or Zona(#15) worry me more about grabbing Alex?( 2nd or 3rd round) Both also should worry Jets or Elway giving up a boatload to get to #2 or #3.. 

Tour will have to interpret this for me, still learning the financial end of things.... . Bortles cap hit is $19 million, but there's no dead money. Does this mean they can flat out cut him once the new league year starts, and be off the hook?   

[Flugel]

He ain't my Cousin!

I'm far more intrigued by Alex Smith.  When he had his best offensive coaching - his passer ratings were above 90 the last 2 years at SF and all but 1 year in KC (the exception was 89.1).  Coincidentally, both of his teams were winning and frequenting post seasons during this time.  Prior to Alex Smith's arrival, the complaint in KC was they weren't winning in spite of 5-6 players making the Pro Bowl.  Sound like better leadership needed?   Land ho!

I don't see the same magic in Cousins yet.   I've seen Washington play just as well or better when Colt McCoy started.  What do we really know other than Washington seems really reluctant to lock him up long term?  Not exactly the glowing endorsement I can get excited about.

 

 

[Tour2ma]

12 hours ago, hoorta said:

Tour will have to interpret this for me, still learning the financial end of things.... . Bortles cap hit is $19 million, but there's no dead money. Does this mean they can flat out cut him once the new league year starts, and be off the hook?   

Yes... Bortles will cost them nothing to cut.

I believe you are close to graduation, h.

[Gunz41]

With regards to Cousins and why Browns should try and sign him and his "great" numbers, someone brought up he had no run game and a bad defense.

That what INFLATE his numbers. Bad defense=Having to outscore, which means more passes. No running game means throwing more.

In different threads on different players both NFL and draft prospects there sure are some mighty strange arguments for people in favor of those players. Very counterintuitive 

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, Gunz41 said:

With regards to Cousins and why Browns should try and sign him and his "great" numbers, someone brought up he had no run game and a bad defense.

That what INFLATE his numbers. Bad defense=Having to outscore, which means more passes. No running game means throwing more.

In different threads on different players both NFL and draft prospects there sure are some mighty strange arguments for people in favor of those players. Very counterintuitive 

I believe Slugger made a comment about how Smith has only passed for 4000 yards once, as proof of his mediocrity.

Actually, if you go by yards per attempt over the last three seasons, Smith's YPA is only .3 yards an attempt less than Cousin's. (7.5YPA vs. 7.8YPA)

 

[Nero]

3 hours ago, Gunz41 said:

With regards to Cousins and why Browns should try and sign him and his "great" numbers, someone brought up he had no run game and a bad defense.

That what INFLATE his numbers. Bad defense=Having to outscore, which means more passes. No running game means throwing more.

In different threads on different players both NFL and draft prospects there sure are some mighty strange arguments for people in favor of those players. Very counterintuitive 

Receivers were a problem this year, too. 

Pryor didn't work (I don't remember if it was due to injuries), he lost Jackson, Reed played injured and was a shadow of himself... The receiver with most yards? Crowder with around 700. 

I'd be more than happy to have Cousins in my team. I like the guy, and I think he puts good numbers, albeit not being amazing. With the amount of teams with a debatable QB there are, don't having to worry about that position is huge IMO. 

The problem is the money. I believe that Cousins has always had a "second draft choice/backup QB" tag in Washington, as he was drafted after RGIII and was his backup. When he played well and asked for the money, they were reluctant. Is like Keenum this year: he played great, but I bet the Vikings aren't going to be the ones giving him the best offer. 

That made Redskins tag him TWICE, and I bet that his next contract is going to be bigger than what it would have been if they finally had come to terms prior to all this tagging madness. And signing a guy with a market value much higher than his field value is something I don't want the Browns doing.

 

[Dutch Oven]

5 hours ago, Nero said:

And signing a guy with a market value much higher than his field value is something I don't want the Browns doing.

If that's true, you'll want the Browns to pattern themselves after the Packers and Steelers, who build through the draft and supplement their rosters (generally) with free agents who don't demand huge contracts. As much as I hate the Steelers, they have a plan that works.

[Flugel]

5 hours ago, Nero said:

Receivers were a problem this year, too. 

Pryor didn't work (I don't remember if it was due to injuries), he lost Jackson, Reed played injured and was a shadow of himself... The receiver with most yards? Crowder with around 700. 

I'd be more than happy to have Cousins in my team. I like the guy, and I think he puts good numbers, albeit not being amazing. With the amount of teams with a debatable QB there are, don't having to worry about that position is huge IMO. 

The problem is the money. I believe that Cousins has always had a "second draft choice/backup QB" tag in Washington, as he was drafted after RGIII and was his backup. When he played well and asked for the money, they were reluctant. Is like Keenum this year: he played great, but I bet the Vikings aren't going to be the ones giving him the best offer. 

That made Redskins tag him TWICE, and I bet that his next contract is going to be bigger than what it would have been if they finally had come to terms prior to all this tagging madness. And signing a guy with a market value much higher than his field value is something I don't want the Browns doing.

 

Interesting - some good points Nero!  Losing DeSean Jackson might have been addition by subtraction; because he came to Tampa and didn't help their young QB nearly as much as the locals here thought he would.  The radio dialogue I heard was Winston felt pressured to get the ball to him and in doing so - he also had Evans in his ear about keeping up his targets.

When you mentioned the money - BINGO!   I still get the impression Washington wants to upgrade their QB position by their reluctance to commit long term.  If Receivers were a problem in Washington, we had a crew that couldn't make that roster except for our well rested Josh Gordon. In 2016, Pryor was the WR that went over 1000 yards here that Cousins couldn't generate any magic with (even before injuries?) 

As much as Alex Smith is my fave, we NEVER get this kind of QB here this side of 1999.  We just don't.  Maybe Dorsey Doe can change that with making our WR Corps a much better recruiting attraction. That shouldn't be nearly as impossible as previous regimes have made it.

Do we consider losing a 2nd round pick for AJ McCarron?   We may lose the pick but keep the cap space Cousins would drain.  Too bad Sam Bradford can't stay healthy or he'd be worth exploring... As nice as the Keenum and Foles stories became - what happens when they don't have the HUGE margin of error their defenses gave them this year?  Keenum, looked like Cinderella after midnight last week. After going up 7-0, he threw a TD to Philly's defense (which took a lot of pressure off Foles early at home).   And when Minnesota's defense was getting turnovers on the opponent's side of the 50 or getting off the field - Keenum stayed overwhelmed.  Long story short, we don't have this kind of defense Minnesota or Philly had perpetuating a nice margin of error for their QB.  BUT if our front 7 stays a little healthier and we upgrade our secondary - we'll see better giddy-up and get after it overall.

 

[Nero]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

If that's true, you'll want the Browns to pattern themselves after the Packers and Steelers, who build through the draft and supplement their rosters (generally) with free agents who don't demand huge contracts. As much as I hate the Steelers, they have a plan that works.

The thing is that I wouldn't mind overpaying some players, if they were the only missing pieces in an already contending roster. Let's say we only miss a RB, well, give Le'Veon or whoever is looking for a huge contract what he asks for, and go for the SB that year. 

I can understand overpaying and risking your future (cap space, draft picks) when your present looks good enough to take your chances, but we are 3-4 years from being contenders, being optimistic.

We need to make additions both in FA and in the Draft, and probably in FA we are going to have to pay a bit more than others to bring good players (we are the Browns, we are the least attractive team at the moment), but we don't have to go crazy NOW.

 

[Nero]

58 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Interesting - some good points Nero!  Losing DeSean Jackson might have been addition by subtraction; because he came to Tampa and didn't help their young QB nearly as much as the locals here thought he would.  The radio dialogue I heard was Winston felt pressured to get the ball to him and in doing so - he also had Evans in his ear about keeping up his targets.

When you mentioned the money - BINGO!   I still get the impression Washington wants to upgrade their QB position by their reluctance to commit long term.  If Receivers were a problem in Washington, we had a crew that couldn't make that roster except for our well rested Josh Gordon. In 2016, Pryor was the WR that went over 1000 yards here that Cousins couldn't generate any magic with (even before injuries?) 

As much as Alex Smith is my fave, we NEVER get this kind of QB here this side of 1999.  We just don't.  Maybe Dorsey Doe can change that with making our WR Corps a much better recruiting attraction. That shouldn't be nearly as impossible as previous regimes have made it.

Do we consider losing a 2nd round pick for AJ McCarron?   We may lose the pick but keep the cap space Cousins would drain.  Too bad Sam Bradford can't stay healthy or he'd be worth exploring... As nice as the Keenum and Foles stories became - what happens when they don't have the HUGE margin of error their defenses gave them this year?  Keenum, looked like Cinderella after midnight last week. After going up 7-0, he threw a TD to Philly's defense (which took a lot of pressure off Foles early at home).   And when Minnesota's defense was getting turnovers on the opponent's side of the 50 or getting off the field - Keenum stayed overwhelmed.  Long story short, we don't have this kind of defense Minnesota or Philly had perpetuating a nice margin of error for their QB.  BUT if our front 7 stays a little healthier and we upgrade our secondary - we'll see better giddy-up and get after it overall.

 

I think that Keenum was outstanding in some games despite Vikings' defense. 

Our second is a #33 (if I'm not mistaken you trade your pick). I'd trade that for Smith (and I know that's overpaying) but not for McCarron. I'd give a 3rd for AJ. 

And I've been saying in other threads that I would go WR first in FA, to be able to negotiate with a QB later.

[Flugel]

12 minutes ago, Nero said:

I think that Keenum was outstanding in some games despite Vikings' defense. 

Our second is a #33 (if I'm not mistaken you trade your pick). I'd trade that for Smith (and I know that's overpaying) but not for McCarron. I'd give a 3rd for AJ. 

And I've been saying in other threads that I would go WR first in FA, to be able to negotiate with a QB later.

Yeah, Keenum had a great year - no doubt about it!    Where I was going with the margin of error his defense gave him stuff is -  it really helps a QB's confidence to know his defense has his back in the sense of feeling he doesn't have to score/be perfect on every single drive or press to do so like we've made some of QBs feel like they've had to do in recent years. Keenum had a pressure-free set-up he really made the most of with good performances.  I LIKED the story.  We don't have that set-up here for any QB just yet. The GOOD news is we can do a lot this off season to about-face it. 

Good idea about going WR first in FA to help recruit the QB interest.

[JamesMadisonSkinsfan]

I don't know ... as a Redskins fan, I think you guys would be better off going with Alex Smith and drafting someone at either #1 or #4. I like Cousins and want him back, and obviously money isn't an issue with the Browns ... but if your GM thinks any of these QBs in the draft can be the next "top QB" ... get that guy and sit him behind Smith for a year v. going with Cousins, who is very good, but not elite.

Unless you guys think you should go Barkley + Fitzpatrick at 1 & 4. Can't really go wrong either way. 

[Nero]

36 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkinsfan said:

I don't know ... as a Redskins fan, I think you guys would be better off going with Alex Smith and drafting someone at either #1 or #4. I like Cousins and want him back, and obviously money isn't an issue with the Browns ... but if your GM thinks any of these QBs in the draft can be the next "top QB" ... get that guy and sit him behind Smith for a year v. going with Cousins, who is very good, but not elite.

Unless you guys think you should go Barkley + Fitzpatrick at 1 & 4. Can't really go wrong either way. 

As of today, I'd sign 2 WRs in FA (not necessarily both top tier, but at least one), then Smith, QB with the #1 (I'd be happy with either Darnold, Rosen or Mayfield), and Fitzpatrick/James with #4. 

[Dutch Oven]

10 minutes ago, Nero said:

As of today, I'd sign 2 WRs in FA (not necessarily both top tier, but at least one), then Smith, QB with the #1 (I'd be happy with either Darnold, Rosen or Barkley), and Fitzpatrick/James with #4. 

Barkley would be a horrible QB...

[Dutch Oven]

36 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkinsfan said:

I don't know ... as a Redskins fan, I think you guys would be better off going with Alex Smith and drafting someone at either #1 or #4. I like Cousins and want him back, and obviously money isn't an issue with the Browns ... but if your GM thinks any of these QBs in the draft can be the next "top QB" ... get that guy and sit him behind Smith for a year v. going with Cousins, who is very good, but not elite.

Unless you guys think you should go Barkley + Fitzpatrick at 1 & 4. Can't really go wrong either way. 

Skipping a chance at taking a top QB in the draft (AGAIN) and taking a RB actually is wrong.

[Nero]

1 minute ago, Dutch Oven said:

Barkley would be a horrible QB...

Well, PoG is winning the battle and is brainwashing us and making us post about Barkley even if we don't want to! Lol.

[JamesMadisonSkinsfan]

I don’t think Barkley falls to #4 but I don’t think there’s anything wrong going Barkley at #1 and taking a QB at #4. Giants take Darnold and maybe the Jets trade up for Rosen but you still get your choice of Jackson/Allen/Mayfield at #4 in a “worst case” scenario. But with Jackson/Allen/Mayfield all there I could see teams standing pat and not trading up to #3, giving the Browns Rosen. 

[JamesMadisonSkinsfan]

I do subscribe to the camp that stud RBs can be had in R2/3 ... so a QB/FS combo there at 1/4 followed by an RB at 33 is just as logical if not the way to go. 

[Dutch Oven]

13 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkinsfan said:

I don’t think Barkley falls to #4 but I don’t think there’s anything wrong going Barkley at #1 and taking a QB at #4. Giants take Darnold and maybe the Jets trade up for Rosen but you still get your choice of Jackson/Allen/Mayfield at #4 in a “worst case” scenario. But with Jackson/Allen/Mayfield all there I could see teams standing pat and not trading up to #3, giving the Browns Rosen. 

IMO, your worst case scenario of taking Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen or Baker Mayfield is terrifying. (Specifically Jackson or Allen at #4).

Like this is what gets Dorsey and Co. fired a few years from now terrifying. 

 

[gumby73]

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkinsfan said:

I do subscribe to the camp that stud RBs can be had in R2/3 ... so a QB/FS combo there at 1/4 followed by an RB at 33 is just as logical if not the way to go. 

at #33, add in the mix that if the #2 or #3 LT drops to us we may need to start taking JT's replacement..Tour have ya worked up your last canidate after Orlando Brown worth considering at #33?  CB's & Tackle seem like a light draft class

[JamesMadisonSkinsfan]

6 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

at #33, add in the mix that if the #2 or #3 LT drops to us we may need to start taking JT's replacement..Tour have ya worked up your last canidate after Orlando Brown worth considering at #33?  

The way I see it is you "easily" get 4 starters with 1 - 4 - 33 - 35 ... obviously FA can impact this. But all the picks in the 3rd and 4th round should be seen as depth/contributors at the very least but not necessarily immediate impact guys. QB - FS - RB - OT would be how I'd draw it up. I think you can address CB & WR in free agency for immediate impacts then draft their depth in the 3rd and 4th. And if you somehow managed to add Bell in FA if he gets out of Pittsburgh then even better. I do think having so much young talent and cap space will allow a true BPA approach to the draft.

[SkippinTurtles]

Why would you spend a third of your salary cap on a barely competitive QB?  His career record is average.  His performance in primetime games sucks.  His arm is average.  Poor in the redzone.  He's all stats with NO results.  He gets the Browns to 8-8 maybe.  Pass.

[7moses7]

2 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkinsfan said:

I don’t think Barkley falls to #4 but I don’t think there’s anything wrong going Barkley at #1 and taking a QB at #4. Giants take Darnold and maybe the Jets trade up for Rosen but you still get your choice of Jackson/Allen/Mayfield at #4 in a “worst case” scenario. But with Jackson/Allen/Mayfield all there I could see teams standing pat and not trading up to #3, giving the Browns Rosen. 

I don't believe you wait till #4 to take your choice of what is left of the QBs, the Browns have to know which QB they want take him at #1 then let the cards fall at #4

[Louisville Slugger]

6 minutes ago, SkippinTurtles said:

Why would you spend a third of your salary cap on a barely competitive QB?  His career record is average.  His performance in primetime games sucks.  His arm is average.  Poor in the redzone.  He's all stats with NO results.  He gets the Browns to 8-8 maybe.  Pass.

So hes a player who can come in and win us 8 games (potentially getting us into the playoffs), that's exactly what I'm looking for.

I can't believe there are so many browns fans on here that are like ," I don't want him, he only wins 8 games a season". Are you guys forgettng it usually takes 3 seasons for us to get 8 wins?

If you don't think he's a top 10-12 QB who isnt going to have us contending for the playoffs, I understand not wanting to pay that money. I don't know what makes you think that but I get it

 

[hoorta]

18 minutes ago, Louisville Slugger said:

So hes a player who can come in and win us 8 games (potentially getting us into the playoffs), that's exactly what I'm looking for.

I can't believe there are so many browns fans on here that are like ," I don't want him, he only wins 8 games a season". Are you guys forgettng it usually takes 3 seasons for us to get 8 wins?

If you don't think he's a top 10-12 QB who isnt going to have us contending for the playoffs, I understand not wanting to pay that money. I don't know what makes you think that but I get it

 

Are you even listening to what several Redskins fans are saying? You've set the bar too low, if 8 wins is your goal. Looks like you're ready to have a parade for that level of mediocrity. For example, 50 miles south of Dayton where Dandy Andy Dalton (with a stellar supporting cast- there's a good comparison) is just barely good enough to make the playoffs, and go one and done. I want better than that.To pay Kirk that kind of money, I want Rodgers, Brady, Rothlisberger good. Reports from Washington- sorry to bust your bubble- say Cousins isn't in that league- though he's probably going to get paid like he is. 

[JamesMadisonSkinsfan]

Redskins fans are stuck. Like you for so long we just wanted stability and a good option. We now have that ... and hes good and made us consistent. We were so bad the past 2 years from the lack of draft picks and this year had a ton of injuries so it’s hard to say whether it’s Cousins or the team. We are now bored with .500 and want “the next step” and whether that includes cousins or not ... no one knows. Cousins very well could be elite with talent around him. He just hasn’t had much to work with in DC. 

[Louisville Slugger]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

Are you even listening to what several Redskins fans are saying? You've set the bar too low, if 8 wins is your goal. Looks like you're ready to have a parade for that level of mediocrity. For example, 50 miles south of Dayton where Dandy Andy Dalton (with a stellar supporting cast- there's a good comparison) is just barely good enough to make the playoffs, and go one and done. I want better than that.To pay Kirk that kind of money, I want Rodgers, Brady, Rothlisberger good. Reports from Washington- sorry to bust your bubble- say Cousins isn't in that league- though he's probably going to get paid like he is. 

I never said he was in that league, but he is a top 10-12 guy and he can get us to the playoffs. 

We're a rebuilding team and the bar is too low? What if our draft pick sucks? Alex Smith isn't going to make this team much better. So we suffer for 3 more years instead of watching a competent offense.  

We have talent in this team, and we should get a ton more this off-season. Cousins could make us contenders in the AFCN with in a year or 2. I'm tired of Cleveland being the laughing stock of the NFL. Let's bring in the best talent available and win some games