The Gipper Posted January 24, 2018 Report Posted January 24, 2018 Issues and discussions are being had about some of these QB prospects...and their level of competition, the presumption being that any QB from a non P5 school should perhaps be looked at askance give their level of competition. So...should we expect a P5 level QB to be superior than a non P5 guy? I don't honestly know the answer to that. All I can do is look at various points of data. Here is one...very basic...data point. Hall of Fame QBs. Which have been from P5 schools...which are not. Note...for this purpose...because it is also designated that way....Independents Notre Dame and BYU are classified as part of the P5 programs. P5: 27 QBs come from P5 schools: UCLA: Aikman and Waterfield Kentucky: Blanda Purdue: Dawson and Griese Stanford: Elway Oregon: Fouts and Van Brocklin Northwestern: Otto Graham and Paddy Driscoll Duke: Jurgenson and Clarence Parker Miami, Fla. Jim Kelly Texas: Bobby Layne Pitt: Marino Notre Dame: Montana Washington: Moon Alabama: Starr, Stabler, Namath Georgia: Tarkenton LSU: Tittle Louisville: Unitas BYU: Young Wisconsin: Herber Michigan: Friedman TCU: Sammy Baugh NON P5 QBs: there are 7 of these: La. Tech: Bradshaw So. Miss: Favre Navy: Staubach Norther Iowa: Warner Columbia: Luckman Washington of St. Louis: Jimmy Conzelman Colorado College: Earl Clark (this is not the same as Colorado Univ.) So...the count is 27 P5 vs. 7 Non P5 So, by this measure.....P5 QBs have almost a 5-1 edge on Non P5 QBs. 20.5% are non P5.
The Gipper Posted January 24, 2018 Author Report Posted January 24, 2018 How about another, totally unscientific measure: Super Bowl Wins by a starting QB: P5....QBs from these schools (again, includes ND and BYU) have 37 SB wins: Notre Dame: 5....Montana and Theisman Michigan: 5....Brady Alabama: 4...Starr, Namath, Stabler Purdue: 4....Dawson, Griese, Brees Stanford: 4....Plunkett and Elway UCLA: 3...Aikman Tennessee: 2...Peyton Ole Miss: 2....Eli BYU: 2 Young and McMahon Cal: 1: Rodgers FSU: 1....Brad Johnson Louisville: 1...Unitas Washington St.: 1....Rypien West Virg. 1....Hostetler Wisconsin: 1....Wilson NON P5 Super Bowl winning QBs: have 14 SB wins. La. Tech. 4....Bradshaw Miami, Oh...2 Ben R. Navy: 2...Staubach Delaware: 1....Flacco Fresno St: 1....Dilfer Grambling: 1....Doug Williams Morehead st: 1.. Phil Simms No. Iowa: 1...Kurt Warner So. Miss.: 1...Favre. So...there were 37 Super Bowl wins by P5 QBs...and 14 by Non P5 QBs. This is actually a little better ratio than the HOF numbers: Non P5 HOF QBs: 20.5% Non P5 Super Bowl winning QBs: 27.4%
The Gipper Posted January 24, 2018 Author Report Posted January 24, 2018 One Final Measurement Stat: the PFR Career Average stat. Notes on this: It is supposed to measure career total production....so longevity counts. Also.....it is more skewed to more modern QBs because the PFR was not applied before like the late 50s or so. So you not see the likes of Graham, Baugh, Luckman on here. What I have done is list simply those QBs that appear in the Top 150 players in Career Average. I will note first there overall player ranking, school, name: P5 QBs who are tops in Career Production Average: 1. Tennessee: Peyton Manning 2. Michigan: Tom Brady 5. Purdue: Drew Brees 6. Georgia: Fran Tarkenton 10. Pitt: Dan Marino 12. Stanford: John Elway 19. NC State: Phillip Rivers T21. BYU: Steve Young 26. Washington: Warren Moon 29. Notre Dame: Joe Montana 33. Oregon: Dan Fouts 45. Cal: Aaron Rodgers T54. Ole Miss: Eli Manning T54. Boston College: Matt Ryan 72. Louisville: Johnny Unitas 74. Purdue: Len Dawson 77. Kansas: John Hadl T78. USC: Carson Palmer T78. Miami Fla: Vinny Testaverde T88. Purdue: Bob Griese T88. Duke: Sonny Jurgenson T93. Syracuse: Donovan McNabb 103. Washington State: Drew Bledsoe T108. Maryland: Boomer Esiason 126: Miami Fla: Jim Kelly 129. NC State: Roman Gabriel 138: Stanford: John Brodie NON P5 QBs in the Top 150 of PFR Career Average: 3. So. Miss. Brett Favre T21. Miami, Oh. Ben R. 34. Augustana College: Ken Anderson T93: Milton College: Dave Kreig T103: La. Tech: Terry Bradshaw\ T108: So. Illinois: Jim Hart 145. Navy: Roger Staubach Bizarrely....these numbers come out exactly the same way as the HOF QB numbers do...even though...as I said, this stat is more geared to more recent times: There are 27 P5 QBs that appear in the PFR CA Top 150...and there are 7 Non P5 school QBs that appear there. (only Favre, Stauback and Bradshaw are the same here) To repeat those percentages: 20.5% of PFR Top 150 QBs are from Non P5 schools.
mjp28 Posted January 25, 2018 Report Posted January 25, 2018 I find that quite interesting from what you think the numbers would show and what they really are. Nice.
The Gipper Posted January 25, 2018 Author Report Posted January 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Zombo said: Is BYU considered Power 5? Zombo I believe it is....as I said, like Notre Dame. I will check. Here is some info: BYU[edit] Main article: 2010–13 Mountain West Conference realignment: BYU During the conference realignment that saw the university choose football independence in August 2010, some saw BYU as a potential future "Notre Dame of the West". Both are prominent faith-based schools; Notre Dame is arguably the best-known Catholic university in the U.S., while BYU is the flagship university of the LDS Church. The 1984 team's national championship is the most recent by a university that is not a current member of the College Football Playoff coalition. BYU was earning less than $2 million a year through its contract with The MTN, the now-defunct TV network of the Mountain West Conference. BYU has its own cable channel,[13] but had a very restrictive contract which did not allow BYU to broadcast its own football games.[14] The new contract with ESPN will pay BYU an estimated $800,000 to $1.2 million per home game,[15] and allow for greater freedom with its own channel. So...I don't know. I think if they didn't want to be known as "The Notre Dame of the West"...they could join one of the P5.....either the Pac 12 or the Big 12.
mjp28 Posted January 25, 2018 Report Posted January 25, 2018 ........BYU was earning less than $2 million a year through its contract with The MTN, the now-defunct TV network of the Mountain West Conference. BYU has its own cable channel,[13] but had a very restrictive contract which did not allow BYU to broadcast its own football games.[14] The new contract with ESPN will pay BYU an estimated $800,000 to $1.2 million per home game,[15] and allow for greater freedom with its own channel....... When you talk about P5 or elite college football this is the underlying driving force and has been for awhile now. It costs money to compete now in facilities, salaries and all the other amenities, it's not just the old ABC and Keith Jackson anymore, did you ever picture the B1G on FOX?
The Gipper Posted January 25, 2018 Author Report Posted January 25, 2018 It costs money to compete now in facilities, salaries and all the other amenities, it's not just the old ABC and Keith Jackson anymore, did you ever picture the B1G on FOX? Fox didn't exist as a network until the mid 90s. But yes, certainly you could have pictured the Big Ten on any of the networks. Why not?
Tour2ma Posted January 25, 2018 Report Posted January 25, 2018 BYU was an independent ala ND for a very long time, wasn't it? Not surprising that P5s dominate QB production... just as they dominate production of every other position. The best programs draw the best talent from HS. The best programs are P5 programs. QED
mjp28 Posted January 25, 2018 Report Posted January 25, 2018 5 hours ago, The Gipper said: It costs money to compete now in facilities, salaries and all the other amenities, it's not just the old ABC and Keith Jackson anymore, did you ever picture the B1G on FOX? Fox didn't exist as a network until the mid 90s. But yes, certainly you could have pictured the Big Ten on any of the networks. Why not? I always pictured the old guard BIG TEN as in the ABC/ESPN family forever......but I guess everything has it's price.
Tour2ma Posted January 25, 2018 Report Posted January 25, 2018 I'm still freaked when I have to tune to CBS for AFC games...
mjp28 Posted January 26, 2018 Report Posted January 26, 2018 4 hours ago, Tour2ma said: I'm still freaked when I have to tune to CBS for AFC games... And FOX didn't even have a real sports division when they got the NFL deal.....and then key CBS talent came over to FOX. NBC later ended up out of professional football! Who knew? .......To the surprise and shock of many in the sports and media industries, on December 17, 1993, the NFL selected the bid offered by Fox, in the process stripping CBS of football for the first time since 1956.......
Ghoolie Posted January 26, 2018 Report Posted January 26, 2018 Gip, nice thread. Really. You are football intense for sure. God bless ya man. For me, p5 non p5 doesn't matter. The glaring problem the Browns have is that they continue to purposely not participate in drafting the best playmakers. Sorry, but having 2 #1 picks and coming away with Coleman and Garrett? The Browns have had more high 1st round picks than anyone, for 18 years now, no NFL team has gotten less out of their draft.
wargograw Posted January 26, 2018 Report Posted January 26, 2018 Obviously, BYU doesn't have a conference. Technically they do however play a schedule that, if gone undefeated through, would put them in the national championship, so I suppose they are P5.
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