calfoxwc Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 So much is argued about completion percentages as a main criteria to judge future NFL qb's by. The fitst pro I looked up for this thread was Eli Manning. 2000 Ole Miss Rebels 52.8 2001 Ole Miss Rebels 63.5 2002 Ole Miss Rebels 58.0 2003 Ole Miss Rebels 62.4 Career 60.8 so, he's a very inaccurate bum, but then he's an accurate star, but then he's a bum, but then he's an accurate star..but that's college. In the pros: starting at 2004 48.2 52.8 57.7 56.1 60.3 62.3 62.9 61.0 59.9 2013 57.5 *** Odell Beckham Jr gets drafted in 2014, first round, also drafted Weston, OC, second round *** 63.1 62.6 63.0 61.6 Average 59.8 So, it seems his numbers fluctuate. What exactly does that mean? He's hopelessly inaccurate? Seems that his percentage changed with the changing cast of characters around him...changing offensive strategies.... etc. Looks like the passing percentages went well above 60 the last four years with the arrival of a top center and Odell Beckham, Jr - WR. Just sayin..... God Bless Ya ! (how did Flugels miss these stats?)
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 It seems like you’re trying real goddamn hard to validate your shitty opinion. No one cares. Josh Allen isn’t good. Just move on.
mjp28 Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 Remember a lot goes into those numbers, how good is your OL? Running game? WRs? Are you a dink and dunk short passing game or loaded with bombs? Are you always behind and gunning it or just running out the game? You've got to love numbers!
calfoxwc Posted January 29, 2018 Author Report Posted January 29, 2018 45 minutes ago, Tim Couch Pulls Out said: It seems like you’re trying real goddamn hard to validate your shitty opinion. No one cares. Josh Allen isn’t good. Just move on. isn't about Allen at all. It's about completion percentages of all these qb's in the draft, and what it means. I'm just rhetorically asking the question. If you can't comprehend what you read, then have a nice day. If you can't back up your opinion, then STFU.
Dutch Oven Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 8 minutes ago, calfoxwc said: isn't about Allen at all. It's about completion percentages of all these qb's in the draft, and what it means. I'm just rhetorically asking the question. If you can't comprehend what you read, then have a nice day. If you can't back up your opinion, then STFU. Just stop. It's bad enough you trying to sell us that the reason you hate Rosen isn't because he ragged on your Orange Messiah... Now you are trying to tell us this isn't you trying to validate your Josh Allen man-crush with this "random" post about completion percentage? Shenanigans.
calfoxwc Posted January 29, 2018 Author Report Posted January 29, 2018 it is NOT about Allen. It's about asking the question, presenting it accurately, then watching as a few people divert and complain because they can't defend their position on completion percentages of the qbs in the draft, like tc. On principle, what explanation defending completion percentages being so high on the criteria bandwagon is there? The completion percentage is being applied to every qb in this draft. Try to answer the question, and stop bitching, and frantically changing the subject.
LogicIsForSquares Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 Cal, you are using one of the most polarizing QBs as an example haha. Eli has not been the picture of consistency throughout his career. Accurate in college doesn’t guarantee success. But inaccuracy tends to never go away when the windows get tighter. There are a few exceptions but they do not represent the vast majority who wash out because inaccuracy plagues them. Browns fans have seen this movie. It sucks.
calfoxwc Posted January 29, 2018 Author Report Posted January 29, 2018 That's legit. I can go with that. It's an anomaly that Eli got Beckham, which opened his windows quite a bit, often. I wish Allen didn't have the accuracy problem, we'll see how it goes. I'm glad he did better that first half, or we'd have a senior bowl thread on fire. Wentz was incredibly accurate - too bad he wasn't picked.
RoyceRolls Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 The stats seem to be skewed by his early career numbers. Odell may have helped raise his percentage by half a point at the most, but it’s hard to say for sure that’s why.
gumby73 Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 case solved..Poe has Eli's Big Blue boner of a running game trapped in Poe's Po(i)t of Misery in basement...to be continued... (oh wait hoorta snipped his rage to one topic )
Nero Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 So he went from an average 60.8 in college to lower pct in the NFL. Thank you for posting a case that doesn't help the case of a guy going 56% in college.
boo fagley Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 11 hours ago, calfoxwc said: it is NOT about Allen. It's about asking the question, presenting it accurately, then watching as a few people divert and complain because they can't defend their position on completion percentages of the qbs in the draft, like tc. On principle, what explanation defending completion percentages being so high on the criteria bandwagon is there? The completion percentage is being applied to every qb in this draft. Try to answer the question, and stop bitching, and frantically changing the subject. Mannings completion % was higher this 3 - 13 season than both seasons when the Giants won the Super Bowl. The great Johnny Football had a 70% completions rate in college. These guys think that the QB is like your ace pitcher that you can throw out there for 16 games and he alone can bring home the W. BTW, the Giants were 9 - 7 and 10 - 6 and won the Lombardi. The Browns are not the Giants but with a few good moves and picks 8 - 8 is not out of the question.
boo fagley Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 18 minutes ago, Nero said: So he went from an average 60.8 in college to lower pct in the NFL. Thank you for posting a case that doesn't help the case of a guy going 56% in college. Brady got better in the NFL and so did Brees. Favre was a ... 54.5 passer in college https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/brett-favre-1.html Allen is better. Let the chimps feces throwing begin.
Mark O Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 11 hours ago, LogicIsForSquares said: Accurate in college doesn’t guarantee success. But inaccuracy tends to never go away when the windows get tighter. There are a few exceptions but they do not represent the vast majority who wash out because inaccuracy plagues them. Browns fans have seen this movie. It sucks. Exactly what I've been saying all along.
calfoxwc Posted January 29, 2018 Author Report Posted January 29, 2018 3 hours ago, Nero said: So he went from an average 60.8 in college to lower pct in the NFL. Thank you for posting a case that doesn't help the case of a guy going 56% in college. you conveniently ignore the years. 4 yrs vs 13 ? yrs. Thank you for cherry picking.
Nero Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 2 hours ago, boo fagley said: Brady got better in the NFL and so did Brees. Favre was a ... 54.5 passer in college https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/brett-favre-1.html Allen is better. Let the chimps feces throwing begin. You are right. Favre's, Brady, and Brees' cases do indeed help Allen's. But let's comment some things on those cases: It took 3 years to Brees to become the player we know he is, Brady played thanks to Bledsoe getting injured and Favre's resume in Atlanta is, per Wikipedia, 'He only attempted four passes in his career at Atlanta, was intercepted twice, and completed none of them. Favre took one other snap, which resulted in a sack for an eleven-yard loss.' Moreover, all those three players weren't picked in first round (Brees #32, Favre #33, Brady #199). Neither of them were the first QB picked. Favre was chosen the 3rd QB in a defensive draft and also had an incredible arm and holds the record for the longest playing streak. He was tough as nails. You can make a case that a players accuracy can improve in the pros, but either it is in the fewest of cases, or it takes HOFers to achieve that feat. That's why I don't want to draft Allen with either #1 or #4 (and those are the picks where I would accept getting a QB this draft), because there are many more things that can go wrong in that case that if you draft someone more ready. If we were talking about drafting him on second round, I wouldn't mind.
Nero Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 Just now, calfoxwc said: you conveniently ignore the years. 4 yrs vs 13 ? yrs. Thank you for cherry picking. If you have a larger sample it only proves that having a better pct in the pros is incredibly difficult.
The Gipper Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 This is completely different than the Curious Case of The Dog in the Night. The Dog did nothing in the night....and that was significant. Here...there is nothing done here either, but is no significance. (Also...Trivia question: Cal takes the name of this thread from a literary source...and adapts it....name that source)
Nero Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 Just now, The Gipper said: This is completely different than the Curious Case of The Dog in the Night. The Dog did nothing in the night....and that was significant. Here...there is nothing done here either, but is no significance. (Also...Trivia question: Cal takes the name of this thread from a literary source...and adapts it....name that source) The Curious Case of Benjamin Button. I don't know the writer. Wikipedia says Scott Fitzgerald.
calfoxwc Posted January 29, 2018 Author Report Posted January 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, Nero said: If you have a larger sample it only proves that having a better pct in the pros is incredibly difficult. can't argue with that.... makes it far tougher to do that coming from a spread offense - so pro style college offenses should have a huge advantage when they get there, I think.
Nero Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 1 minute ago, calfoxwc said: can't argue with that.... makes it far tougher to do that coming from a spread offense - so pro style college offenses should have a huge advantage when they get there, I think. They have an advantage and QBs benefit from it, because I'd say that no draftee is a '%100 safe bet', either injuries or anything can turn a promise into a bust. So if teams see a QB that already plays in a pro style offense, at least you know what can he do, unlike other spread offense QBs (Brees was picked in second round not only for his height, but for coming from a spread offense). Sometimes players are able to learn and adapt, sometimes not.
calfoxwc Posted January 29, 2018 Author Report Posted January 29, 2018 The ability to adapt - seems to be a rare quality. I'm starting to think that Mike White, who has thrived in both?, might very well have it. and he has excellent accuracy and a big arm. And, it may very well be, that the Patriots hope he falls to them in the first round. He may be more ready to play in the pros than any other qb in this draft. I'm really interested.
The Gipper Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 43 minutes ago, Nero said: The Curious Case of Benjamin Button. I don't know the writer. Wikipedia says Scott Fitzgerald. Well, no..."The Curious Case of Benjamin Button" was simply a take off on "The Curious Case of the Dog in the Night"....the nomenclature of which precedes Fitzgerald.
Nero Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 1 minute ago, The Gipper said: Well, no..."The Curious Case of Benjamin Button" was simply a take off on "The Curious Case of the Dog in the Night"....the nomenclature of which precedes Fitzgerald. Well, yes... You asked for the source. Scott Fitzgerald is the answer. I want my cookie.
The Gipper Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 Just now, Nero said: Well, yes... You asked for the source. Scott Fitzgerald is the answer. I want my cookie. NO soup for you....you got it wrong. Read my question. It asked for the source of "The Curious Case of the Dog in the Night". And if you googled, you cheated. And you get a vinegar enema!
Tour2ma Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 18 hours ago, calfoxwc said: So much is argued about completion percentages as a main criteria to judge future NFL qb's by. So, it seems his numbers fluctuate. What exactly does that mean? He's hopelessly inaccurate? Seems that his percentage changed with the changing cast of characters around him...changing offensive strategies.... etc. Looks like the passing percentages went well above 60 the last four years with the arrival of a top center and Odell Beckham, Jr - WR. Just sayin..... God Bless Ya ! (how did Flugels miss these stats?) Good, honest attempt to talk about QBs, all QBs, is what I see, cal. In the end to make any use of whatever comes out of the conversation, you can't exclude Allen, but that doesn't make this just about him. So I'm in. We throw a lot of nebulous terms around in pro QB discussions.... "elite"... "franchise"... "starter"... "backup". Where's Eli in this range? He's certainly a starter. I don't see elite. Franchise? Probably... but I think any consideration he's given for this level is longevity driven, not talent driven. In parallel we talk about QBs who can "carry a team"... "elevate teammates"... "manage a game"... "fill in". Again where's Eli? I don't see elevation and his game management capacity is questionable from season to season... even week to week. However, there have certainly been games where he has carried the Giants. Bottom line? I'm left seeing a middling, talented starter whose performance is more influenced by the level of talent around him than the other way around. While OBJ is arguably the most significant factor in setting that talent level, he's not the only WR of significance let alone the only player of significance. Plus we have to remember that thru FA acquisitions NYG bought itself one of the best Defenses in the league in 2016. So talent considerations are not restricted to just one side of the ball. At Ole Miss Eli showed the same fluctuating performance as he has as a pro and his 2001-2003 numbers are right in line with the range of his pro numbers. His Freshman season in 2000 was a 33-attempt, part-time season that deserves no weight. Seems to simply be another example of a pro QB who was "as advertised" in college. Where do we go from here?
Browns1216 Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 so, what these numbers are telling me is that even though Deshone Kizer has a 53.6 completion percentage for last season, he can still be a starter in this league? If this thread is about QB completion percentages, let's look at QB completion percentages: DeShone Kizer college completion percentage: 60.7 Josh Allen college completion percentage: 56.2 Very rarely do you see completion percentages increase as players transition to the NFL. I highly doubt you will see a percentage increase for any QB who joins the Browns, since their WR corps is less than stellar and there's always the "rookie year handicap" coming into effect as players are learning the playbook and NFL speed. So how much weight do we place on college QB completion percentage? If that's all we're looking at, Allen is a downgrade or at best, a sidegrade from what we have now in Kizer. Worth a #1 pick? No way. Browns are for sure going QB with the #1 pick, there's no clear consensus on who it will be (each candidate has their weaknesses) but if I were to place a bet I would go with Darnold (Rosen = injury concerns, I like Mayfield the best and would be happy to see him on the Browns but I don't think the Browns will get over his size, everyone else = too big a risk for #1 overall pick).
calfoxwc Posted January 29, 2018 Author Report Posted January 29, 2018 I wonder - Peyton Manning is the qb that is what Eli isn't. (from Wikipedia) His numbers 61.8 (freshman) 64.2, 63.9, 60.2 I still be a slight fluctuation, probably due to changes each graduating class, but I have to admit - didn't fall below 60%. he's that accurate. It's confusing - Mike White at Kentucky - 53.1 (Freshman), 50.4, but then as a junior - a whopping 67.3, 65.4 as a senior. Interesting - especially when they changed offenses, I think - starting his senior year. So, I"m confused. lol. Peyton - the accuracy light was always on. Eli, on-off-on-off, and Mike White? off, then on the last two years? Then there's Tom Brady - Freshman year- 1996 60%, 1997 a huge 80%, then 61.9 and 61 his jr and sr years. So, Brady and Peyton - they were just locked in accurate when they started? Some qb's can develop accuracy like Mike White did? Maybe some are locked in to inconsistent accuracy forever? The more I look at it, the more I'm not sure. Maybe Mike White is the best pro-ready qb in this draft.
The Gipper Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 “Gregory, let me recommend to your attention this singular epidemic among the sheep. Drive on, coachman!” Colonel Ross still wore an expression which showed the poor opinion which he had formed of my companion’s ability, but I saw by the Inspector’s face that his attention had been keenly aroused. “You consider that to be important?” he asked. “Exceedingly so.” “Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?” “To the curious incident of the dog in the nighttime.” “The dog did nothing in the night-time.” “That was the curious incident,” remarked Sherlock Holmes. Silver Blaze. Strand Magazine, 1892
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