CIMO. Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 He can't hit, he strikes out constantly, and he just bunted into a double play. Something tells me Gimenez getting called up wasn't for Vic insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 He can't hit, he strikes out constantly, and he just bunted into a double play. Something tells me Gimenez getting called up wasn't for Vic insurance. Hey CIMO, who's telling him to but anyways? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIMO. Posted June 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 Runners on 1st and 2nd, no outs, and a guy batting .200? What else would you have him do? Just put the ball on the ground and move the runners, and he can't even do that. He's worthless for us. I was really hoping to trade him for a good starter this offseason, but I'd be surprised to get anything better than a 35 year old reliever for him now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 Runners on 1st and 2nd, no outs, and a guy batting .200? What else would you have him do? Just put the ball on the ground and move the runners, and he can't even do that. He's worthless for us. I was really hoping to trade him for a good starter this offseason, but I'd be surprised to get anything better than a 35 year old reliever for him now. Yea good point. Who's that Catcher in the minors we got for CC? Heard dude is hitting a ton and has thrown out like 99% of base runners this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIMO. Posted June 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 And welcome to the big leagues, Chris Gimenez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Shapiro should of traded Shoppach when he had the chance to get something for him. Shapiro has graded every season below a D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beanpot Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 Shapiro has graded every season below a D Yeah, that's obviously silly, no matter your grading scale. Instead of going all linkage with reasons why you're wrong, why don't you take the time to defend your comment and explain why Shapiro has graded "every season below a D". Should be informative. Beanpot (guessing T won't take the time to do that) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 Yeah, that's obviously silly, no matter your grading scale. Instead of going all linkage with reasons why you're wrong, why don't you take the time to defend your comment and explain why Shapiro has graded "every season below a D". Should be informative. Beanpot (guessing T won't take the time to do that) I never liked how Shapiro would let guys develop and either let them go to FA or he would trade them away. Even you will agree he isn't John Hart. But I do have to remember who the owner is at the present time. I remember Larry Dolan's interview on WTAM after he just purchased the Indians and he stated that if the Indians were not making a run at winning the World Series it wouldn't be because he was not willing to spend the money to get guys in here to win. Im not sure but where the current payroll is today? It has been some years now and I bet it is half of what it was when the Jacobs owned the Tribe. There I gave you the time of day to answer. My impresssion of Wedge is that he is Shapiro's yes man otherwise he would be seeeking employment elswhere. Dont get me wrong I love the Tribe and I want to see us return to the Glory days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beanpot Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 Nice post, T. We're not going to agree on the idea that Shapiro has earned a D or lower grade every year he's run the show, but thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. As for payroll, the Indians were consistently in the top 5 in payroll during the mid-late 90's, usually finishing 4th behind some variation of the Yankees, Orioles, Braves and Rangers. In those years, payroll increased from $35 million in '95 to $74 million in '99. It was during the end of that run that Jacobs realized that Baseball was changing and that it was time to get out, as Pluto wrote on Friday: But by the late 1990s, Jacobs knew it was coming to an end. He told friends that the advantage that the Tribe had from the new ballpark (and the revenue it produced) was over. He said the sellout streak that reached 455 also could not last forever. Detroit and so many other teams were building new facilities. The real money was now cable TV, and the bigger the market, the bigger the cut. Cleveland could never compete with New York, Chicago, Boston and Los Angeles on that economic field. Jacobs also was convinced that the Indians would not be able to retain young stars such as Manny Ramirez and Jim Thome, and he didn't relish the idea of owning the team when they left via free agency and the Tribe began to slip in the standings. So he cashed out after the 1999 season, running up the price on the Dolan family to $323 million -- slightly more than even the much larger market Los Angeles Dodgers were sold for in that same period. He squeezed out every last dollar in an auction run by Goldman Sachs to find a new Tribe owner. http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index....obs_gave_c.html Since then, payroll has gone everywhere from $92.5 million to $34.5 million under Dolan - it's currently at $81.5 million, 14th highest in baseball and 7th highest in the AL. Interestingly, the Indians achieved their greatest success this decade when they had the 8th lowest payroll in baseball. Surely you didn't give Shapiro a grade of D or lower in 2007, right? Indians Cut Payroll to 8th Lowest on Way to Baseball Playoffs Oct. 4 (Bloomberg) -- Mark Shapiro got the Cleveland Indians back into the playoffs by casting off the club's most popular players six years ago and loading up with prospects. The results of the rebuilding, which alienated fans so much that attendance plummeted by almost 50 percent, are paying off. Shapiro has forged a winner on a payroll that's the eighth lowest in Major League Baseball. ``We are 100 percent dependent on having a productive and healthy player-development system,'' Shapiro said. ``We can't head into free agency and compete with the largest teams.'' Cleveland, whose 96-66 record tied with the Boston Red Sox for the best in baseball, hosts the New York Yankees in the first game of their best-of-five first-round playoff series tonight. Shapiro's team has a $62 million player payroll, about one third of the Yankees' $190 million, the biggest in baseball. Shapiro took over as general manager in November 2001, replacing John Hart, who stepped down after teams he built won their sixth division title in seven years and made two World Series appearances. The Indians' payroll ranked in the top 10 in each of those seasons, and they set a record with 455 consecutive home sellouts. He examined the roster and found All-Star players who would be looking for raises in their next contracts. Rather than increase a payroll that already was $93 million, he shed veterans and restocked the team's minor leagues. Trades Veterans Shapiro traded All-Star second baseman Roberto Alomar, and the next year traded pitcher Bartolo Colon and failed to re-sign first baseman Jim Thome. The Indians tumbled from winning the division in 2001 to fourth place in 2003. Attendance at Jacobs Field dropped to 1.7 million from 3.2 million. ``It was going to be tough for a sustainable plan for a contending team because our farm system wasn't there,'' said Shapiro, who joined Cleveland in 1992 as a baseball operations assistant. In exchange for Colon, Cleveland got then minor-league outfielder Grady Sizemore, who has been an All-Star in two of his four big-league seasons. Designated hitter Travis Hafner, who drove in 100 runs this season, was nabbed in a 2002 trade. He held onto first-round draft pick C.C. Sabathia, a pitcher with 19 wins this year and a Cy Young award candidate, and prospect Victor Martinez, a catcher who led the team with 25 home runs and 114 runs batted in. ``It's the smart thing to do,'' said former Los Angeles Dodgers General Manager Fred Claire, whose club won the 1988 World Series. ``The cost of competing for signing players in free agency is crazy.'' Football Friends Shapiro, who graduated from Princeton University with a history degree, has a baseball background. His father, Ron Shapiro, is an agent who has represented Hall-of-Famers Cal Ripken Jr. and the late Kirby Puckett. He also has ties to the National Football League. His best friend is Scott Pioli, vice president of player personnel for the New England Patriots. Pioli introduced Shapiro's sister Julie to her future husband, Eric Mangini, then an assistant with the Baltimore Ravens and now coach of the New York Jets. Shapiro's philosophy on how to build a team was groomed during late-night talks with Pioli, when both began their careers in Cleveland -- Shapiro with the Indians and Pioli as a personnel assistant with the Browns. A mutual friend introduced them. ``We were young guys that talked about wanting to be a part of something and building something special,'' Pioli said. ``It wasn't about getting one championship.'' Similar Strategy Pioli's Patriots have won three Super Bowls with a similar strategy: Get rid of costly veterans in their prime, and replace them with younger, less-expensive players who haven't reached their peaks. ``Fans and players think they know but don't always know what's best for the long-term vision of the franchise,'' said Pioli, who invited Shapiro to watch the 2003 Super Bowl from the sideline. Cleveland won 93 games in 2005, yet fell two games short of a shot at the playoffs. A shaky bullpen that converted just 24 of 45 save opportunities drove the team into fourth place last year. Shapiro solved the problem by signing free-agent reliever Joe Borowski, who saved 45 games this season. Borowski agreed to a one-year deal worth $4 million, compared with New York's Mariano Rivera, who's earning $10.5 million. Biggest Challenge Like Pioli and the Patriots, Shapiro's biggest challenge will be deciding which free agents to keep. Cleveland's core of Sizemore, Martinez, Hafner and shortstop Jhonny Peralta are locked up through at least 2010. Shapiro signed them to extensions before they were eligible for salary arbitration or free agency to help keep costs in check. Sabathia will be Shapiro's biggest decision. The left- hander's contract expires after next season. Cleveland's ability to retain him may depend on how far the team goes in the playoffs and what kind of revenue increase that means in 2008, Shapiro said. ``Can we sign him and be able to put a championship team around him?'' Shapiro said. ``You have to make tough choices. We aren't going to be able to keep everybody.'' To contact the reporter on this story: Danielle Sessa in New York at dsessa@bloomberg.net Last Updated: October 4, 2007 00:18 EDT http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...I&refer=us# Beanpot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIMO. Posted June 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 And welcome to the big leagues, Chris Gimenez. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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