Stafford, Quinn have impressed early

[TheBestPlayersPlay]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/stor...&id=4223931

 

Cleveland Browns: Brady Quinn might not be opening a huge lead on Derek Anderson, but he's the favorite. Coach Eric Mangini learned two things this offseason: Quinn has better trade value and a great work ethic. The Browns could have secured a first-round pick for Quinn if they had wished. But Anderson, for whatever reason, never really captured anyone's interest despite having a strong arm and a Pro Bowl season in 2007. Quinn has committed himself to the weight room and the tape machine; he's always working. Heck, if he were a rookie, he might have driven Mangini's bus 10 hours to participate in the coach's football camp for kids in Hartford, Conn. Quinn is the clubhouse leader.

For the Sanchez fans

 

New York Jets: Under the circumstances, Kellen Clemens might be the most invisible quarterback in the league. Offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer said Clemens is the leading candidate to be the starter, but everyone is talking up rookie Mark Sanchez. Sanchez made more news during a bad week of throwing a couple of weeks ago than Clemens has at any time this offseason. This situation isn't like the one in Detroit, though. The Jets have a better team than the Lions, and the offense has the blockers and runners to make it easier for a rookie quarterback to make the transition into the starting role. Everything will sort itself out in the preseason, but it would be an upset if Sanchez doesn't eventually get the starting nod for opening day. Clemens has the shaky lead for now, but it may not be for long.

[Oldcrow1945]

I think all of this is smoke and mirrors. Quinn is going to start.

I'm sure EM has watched all the game tapes and I'm sure he has seen two glaring problems in Derek's game. One is Something we've all seen time and time again. His inability to put any touch on a short pass is beyond bad.....He may be the worst QB I've ever seen try to throw short passes. He simply can't do it.

In today's game where blitzing is almost constant, you need a Qb that can either move well or one that can dump off to a second and third or fourth receiver. Both is preferable and Anderson can do neither. Run or dump it off.

Anderson needs to be part of an offense that does nothing but throw the ball deep downfield all the time. The stereotypical Raider's offense.

[AZBrowns]

Well, it's official. Clayton is a "Quinn fag"

[PlaygroundLegend]

Great stuff. I like the line, "Quinn is the clubhouse leader." It makes sense. Other players appreciate hard work and commitment, especially from a quarterback. Walk the walk. If Quinn doesn't succeed, it won't be for lack of effort.

 

Interesting note about Sanchez. I expect him to improve in pretty big leaps. He's a really smart kid who, like Quinn, is a true professional. He'll figure it out... and he has all the tools.

 

The two remind me of each other, right down to body type, athleticism, and "medium" arm strength.

 

Shep you know Im a fan of yours, but don't go there, please

[HowieDawg]

He may be the worst QB I've ever seen try to throw short passes. He simply can't do it.

 

 

Too true but why? I'm guessing this inability isn't a technique issue but a confidence issue? I've never been a QB so I'm guessing but it does intrigue me why he can't complete the short passes.

 

I agree that #10 is in for game 1. This season is all about change and DA isn't part of the starting line up for change. I think DA is probably a very nice chap but he is not a leader, i see him as the god boy that is always looking for permission, that's not what we need. It's on Quinn and after two years I'm looking forward to seeing if he can get over his first starting season nerves EARLY

[sisky fringo]

I think DA is probably a very nice chap but he is not a leader, i see him as the god boy that is always looking for permission, that's not what we need.

JMO Howie but i think you've got him pegged all wrong with the above description. the short passes have improved some since he's been a pro but he's definitely a leader in my eyes, and he has the confidence to walk to the beat of his own drum. he's earned every start he's gotten in the NFL. to me BQ is more of the good boy looking for permission, if that describes either of them.

 

because they have both proven they can coexist (which very few had confidence that DA could even endure that this season) they will undoubtedly make each other better>>>which will in turn make the Browns better. the ironic thing is while Quinn is watching tape, he's also studying DA. maybe Derek is doing the same and can polish up on his short tosses from Captain dump-off himself.

[Brownshirt]

JMO Howie but i think you've got him pegged all wrong with the above description. the short passes have improved some since he's been a pro but he's definitely a leader in my eyes, and he has the confidence to walk to the beat of his own drum. he's earned every start he's gotten in the NFL. to me BQ is more of the good boy looking for permission, if that describes either of them.

 

because they have both proven they can coexist (which very few had confidence that DA could even endure that this season) they will undoubtedly make each other better>>>which will in turn make the Browns better. the ironic thing is while Quinn is watching tape, he's also studying DA. maybe Derek is doing the same and can polish up on his short tosses from Captain dump-off himself.

 

 

Im baffled by the criticism of Quinn for dumping the ball off. Last year was his first real game exposure and he was playing behind an

 

unprepared, disorganized, unmotivated and undisciplened team. Much better to take a sack or force the ball into triple coverage, WTF?

[sisky fringo]

Im baffled by the criticism of Quinn for dumping the ball off. Last year was his first real game exposure and he was playing behind an

 

unprepared, disorganized, unmotivated and undisciplened team. Much better to take a sack or force the ball into triple coverage, WTF?

last year Quinn forced the ball into triple coverage twice and quadruple coverage in the Texans game>>>and he only played in 3 games. once was to Heiden down the seam, who was completely covered and the pass was off mark regardless. i have forgotten the intended receiver for the other pass into triple coverage, and in the latter there were four Texans in the area and no eligible Browns on the screen. on that one he was forcing a dump-off which should have been thrown away or possibly thrown deep, but i don't have the film to show that angle for the deep field. apparently Romeo saw it cause he put DA in the next series. my guess: someone was probably on an island near the end zone waving both arms like windmills.

 

what's baffling about that?

[Greythan]

Captain dump-off himself

I'm calling bullshit on your smug ass.

 

In another thread you go out of your way to say you don't have a bias either way.

 

Baloney. Come out of the closet.

 

You want to support DA, do it. You think he's the better long term solution at QB. Say it. Stop with this, "All the BQ homers are bad fans" crap when you pull the same shit yourself.

[sisky fringo]

I'm calling bullshit on your smug ass.

 

In another thread you go out of your way to say you don't have a bias either way.

 

Baloney. Come out of the closet.

 

You want to support DA, do it. You think he's the better long term solution at QB. Say it. Stop with this, "All the BQ homers are bad fans" crap when you pull the same shit yourself.

come out of the closet? i've been supporting DA nonstop on here for years. i mean, he did set Browns records after all. i never said anyone was a bad fan, but the fact that so many throw him under the bus after doing so might bring it into question. sure, i'll admit i throw digs out there but it's mild compared to what everyone says about Derek. it's not so much against Quinn as it's retaliation for talking smack on a Brown who has played damn hard for us in my eyes.

 

if Quinn shows his meddle and becomes the undeniable starter i'll have his back too. it's what i call being a Browns fan. but hey Grey, i'll still drink beer with ya and cheer on the team any time you want. **insert cheers smilie**

 

**edit**also, you can quote me without putting words in my mouth. if you are one of those who looks through Quinn-colored glasses, that should still have little bearing on whether you are a bad fan or not. and to reiterate: by nature i like underdogs, proven results, and despise mainstream opinions but feel neutral in terms of who pilots the team. this isn't about predictions nor do i work for the organization. i'll support whoever Mangini feels is the best--it's not personal with me. i just don't think it's cool to stomp all over someone who brought us so many wins, especially when he's not around to defend himself.

[Guest AdaM]

Sisky your posts just keep going down hill. Becoming more and more delusional.

[sisky fringo]

Sisky your posts just keep going down hill. Becoming more and more delusional.

**insert cheers smilie**

 

**edit**you know, i was thinking the other day about some of our younger posters and what they've endured as fans. we've all endured a lot, but anyone who was ten or less in 1996 can't really claim they remember too much about when the Browns were half decent. heck, i was only 10 or 11 in 1986 so i can't claim all that much either. but seriously, super kudos to all you guys that have endured perpetual suck year in and year out thriving solely on the random highlight and feel good stories of yester-year.

 

so...i was thinking about what positives they may have experienced as Browns fans and it seemed to me that the season Derek Anderson played such a huge role in in 2007 would be one of the high points that they might remember as men, rather than boys. being one of these guys Adam, it confuses me why more of my fellow younger fans don't embrace him even a little bit, preferring to cast him off to another team at the first opportunity. it's not like it's "hey, maybe Brady Quinn can take it to the next level" but more like "DA sucks and Quinn is god". it's a ridiculously hard position and it's not like Quinn has shown much as a pro and Derek hasn't proven anything. college and the NFL are very different and less make the transition than we would like. i was guilty of cheering for Holcombe over Couch but that was after he bagan showing promise that he might actually be the better QB. this is much different.

 

any insight regarding this?

[Guest AdaM]

**insert cheers smilie**

 

**edit**you know, i was thinking the other day about some of our younger posters and what they've endured as fans. we've all endured a lot, but anyone who was ten or less in 1996 can't really claim they remember too much about when the Browns were half decent. heck, i was only 10 or 11 in 1986 so i can't claim all that much either. but seriously, super kudos to all you guys that have endured perpetual suck year in and year out thriving solely on the random highlight and feel good stories of yester-year.

 

so...i was thinking about what positives they may have experienced as Browns fans and it seemed to me that the season Derek Anderson played such a huge role in in 2007 would be one of the high points that they might remember as men, rather than boys. being one of these guys Adam, it confuses me why more of my fellow younger fans don't embrace him even a little bit, preferring to cast him off to another team at the first opportunity. it's not like it's "hey, maybe Brady Quinn can take it to the next level" but more like "DA sucks and Quinn is god". it's a ridiculously hard position and it's not like Quinn has shown much as a pro and Derek hasn't proven anything. college and the NFL are very different and less make the transition than we would like. i was guilty of cheering for Holcombe over Couch but that was after he bagan showing promise that he might actually be the better QB. this is much different.

 

any insight regarding this?

 

There are people who take it way overboard I agree. My opinion is that of DA has had his chance here and did not do enough to stay at the helm. It's time to see what the next guy has.

[sisky fringo]

fair enough. it would just be nice if we as fans could collectively appreciate the good times DA has contributed to rather than insulting a Browns player that is currently still in contention for a starting position. it's probably tough to give your heart and soul for a bunch of fans who kick dirt in your face at every opportunity.

[sisky fringo]

Actually Sisky, I was thinking the exact oposite and you kinda proved my point although you are my age so it doesn't count as much.

 

I have for a long time thought that some of the DA supporters were younger folks who never saw the Browns of Kosar and the like. And all they have is the post expansion Browns to remember. And whether the Quinn fans like it or not, DA IS THE MOST SUCCESSFUL QB the expansion Browns have had, and the only one who has really played the position to a high level for even a short peroid of time. So fans CLING to the memory of the "good DA" who won those 10 games, threw all those touchdownd, and made the pro-bowl as an alternate. They want to believe the "good DA" can come back, the need to believe that, because they've seen too many rookies be brought in as the "savior" of the new Browns, only to be massively disapointed. So they'd rather go with what they know they have seen, than take a chance on what MIGHT be because they have been burned so bad.

 

For me, ( and some like me I would guess), we don't HATE DA, but we also believe he is not good enough to be the QB of this team for years to come. We don't believe he can fix the problems he has shown over these years as a pro. So we'd rather take the shot on the young guy and see if he does have what it takes. If he doesn't, then we start all over again looking for the next guy. Could we be wrong about DA and he'll go on to be an all-pro QB for the rest of his career? Sure, but I'm not willing to bet the franchise on him, and you have a young guy who has shown some promise, so it's his time.

where the heck are these fans you speak of? they're certainly not on this board, nor have i run into them in public. i remember being welcomed to the Slaughterhouse and singing Cab Calloway's Minnie the Moocher with countless thousands...walking to Muni looking up for "Jump Art" signs...but i was still in my teens or much younger. those memories are there, but they're hazy.

 

if DA were a 30 yr old journeyman i'd agree completely w/ the consensus--but he's just a year older than BQ. rather than move on i will afford DA the opportunity to tweak his game further and see if he can develop those other tools he's missing. in the meantime if Quinn can show more than Derek can, it's Quinn time. there's a big difference between allowing the best man to win and cheering them both on vs writing someone off because of his NFL showings at 22, 23, and 24 yrs old. he's now 25 and i don't hear many (any) saying they think he can improve...and they're willing to bet on it.

 

it's not optimism, it's absolute certainty he'll be unable to do it. that's unfair bias no matter how you slice it.

 

i'm fine with taking a shot on the "new guy" as soon as he earns the start, and for the past 3 years he's been unable to do so. in laymen's terms, "it shouldn't be Quinn's time until he can beat DA". but you and i know that's not good enough for our vocal fanbase.

 

 

 

[lemosley01]

Come on sisky, you know why that is happening. And it has nothing to do with DA. It has to do with a certain made up "member" of this site, who is used to increase post count.

 

I bet if you could take the time to go back into the archives and look into the QB discussions of the past. I bet the discussions of the plusses and minuses of DA were much more analytical and fair in the begning.

 

BOTH SIDES of the arguement now resort to hyperbole and jabs and insults because the debate has gone on for so long. And because it can be fun to make a joke out of another poster's idiotic comments.

 

I recall when it was Frye | Anderson at the end of the 2006 season. Frye was injured and in came Anderson - the line suddenly stopped giving up all of those sacks, so at that point we knew 'it is Charlie Frye'. Many of us preferred Anderson over Frye at that point and would have rather had him complete the season.

 

But, based on his play, no one really saw any reason to invest in him as starter. Savage himself said it: We were going to need a QB anyway. Clearly, he didn't believe Anderson was starter material.

 

No one disliked Anderson, he just didn't look like 'the guy', based on those few starts. In 2007 he started to look like a possibility, then crapped the bed. He had the unfortunate luck of having a 1st rounder sitting behind him. Most fans, myself included, want to know why waste time trying to develop a 6th round guy when we have (supposedly) first round talent sitting behind him.

[sisky fringo]

Come on sisky, you know why that is happening. And it has nothing to do with DA. It has to do with a certain made up "member" of this site, who is used to increase post count.

 

I bet if you could take the time to go back into the archives and look into the QB discussions of the past. I bet the discussions of the plusses and minuses of DA were much more analytical and fair in the begning.

 

BOTH SIDES of the arguement now resort to hyperbole and jabs and insults because the debate has gone on for so long. And because it can be fun to make a joke out of another poster's idiotic comments.

still doesn't make it cool, because Derek's a real person. and we should never lose sight of the fact. at least, as long as he's a Brown.

[Guest AdaM]

still doesn't make it cool, because Derek's a real person. and we should never lose sight of the fact. at least, as long as he's a Brown.

 

 

Football aint about feelings, Its about wins and money.

 

And Quinn will improve both.