So much winning...

[Westside Steve]

Oooh fat jokes; I'm crushed. Here's how I see this. There are always guys on the Browns board that like to spew their pompous opinions and sneer at everyone else, bragging about their superlative knowledge of football and the dearth of knowledge amongst the others. I say those guys are windbags, sucking air and no more. In football the guy that fetches coffee for the lowliest assistant coach on the team more than likely has a hundred times more knowledge that any boastful clown on an internet message board. Here you are bragging about your deep knowledge of the workings involved in trade policy. First of all the people involved in this, whether you like them personally or not , know more about the stuff that you would know if you spent the rest of your life studying it. And these are the people, like it or not, that are putting together these policies based on whatever theories they are hoping are correct. Millions of factors can change that either way.

I don't have a professional grasp on this issue but the difference is I don't pretend to. Unlke you these people are experts. If you are seriously in fear of a financial meltdown because we have slapped a little tariff on Canada who is little more than a barnacle on The Good Ship USA, time to pack your stuff and move north.

WSS

[Clevfan4life]

no ur right, which is why i preceded with "im no expert" and i fully acknowledge i dont know the overall plan. but i do know a bit more than the basucs vecause it was part of my degree. agaon, not an expert. heres the problem though, i have close personal friebds in economics and finance....who are not liberals so there goes ur first objection.

second, what we've seen from the trump administration so far is a revolving door. he assured us from the beginning that he's got all the best people in place and all the best people wanna come work for him. yet he gets rid of these people at a pace never seen before and their replacements then get replaced, when is it going to end? that famous picture now of trump with merkle, who's next to trump but bolton....who's trumps national security adviser not his econ guy which is kudlow. why bton was there and not kudlow...u got me. i know enough to smell a guy who's "wingin it"

[TexasAg1969]

11 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

no ur right, which is why i preceded with "im no expert" and i fully acknowledge i dont know the overall plan. but i do know a bit more than the basucs vecause it was part of my degree. agaon, not an expert. heres the problem though, i have close personal friebds in economics and finance....who are not liberals so there goes ur first objection.

second, what we've seen from the trump administration so far is a revolving door. he assured us from the beginning that he's got all the best people in place and all the best people wanna come work for him. yet he gets rid of these people at a pace never seen before and their replacements then get replaced, when is it going to end? that famous picture now of trump with merkle, who's next to trump but bolton....who's trumps national security adviser not his econ guy which is kudlow. why bton was there and not kudlow...u got me. i know enough to smell a guy who's "wingin it"

If Trump ever makes a visit here I will offer to take him for a free meal at the local Wingstop Restaurant. He's earned it.😂

[Clevfan4life]

so heres a guy who  factually and demonstrably knows more about the economy and trade than trump...and this is not a liberal.

http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2018/march/12/tariffs-are-not-the-answer/

[Clevfan4life]

"President Trump’s planned 25 percent tariff on steel imports and 10 percent tariff on aluminum imports may provide a temporary boost for those industries, but the tariffs will do tremendous long-term damage to the American and global economies. Tariffs raise the price of, and reduce demand for, imported goods. Tariffs ensure the preferences of politicians, instead of the preferences of consumers, to determine how resources are allocated. This reduces economic efficiency and living standards.

Some justify these economic inefficiencies as being worth it to save American jobs. This ignores how tariffs increase costs of production for industries reliant on imported materials to produce their products. These increased costs lead to job losses in those industries. For example, President Trump’s proposed steel tariff could cost nearly 40,000 jobs in the steel-dependent auto manufacturing industry. Tariffs also cause job losses in industries reliant on exports. This is especially true if — as is likely to be the case — other countries respond to President Trump’s actions by increasing tariffs on US products.

Many of President Trump’s critics do not themselves support true free trade, which is the voluntary exchange of goods and services across borders. Instead, they support the managed (by government) trade of NAFTA and the World Trade Organization (WTO). NAFTA and the WTO promote world government and crony capitalism, not free markets. Any libertarian or free-market conservative who thinks the WTO promotes economic liberty should remember that the WTO once ordered Congress to raise taxes!

Foreign manufacturers may make convenient scapegoats for the problems facing US industry. However, the truth is that most of the problems plaguing American businesses stem from the US government. American businesses are burdened by thousands of federal regulations controlling every aspect of their operations. The tax system also burdens businesses. Until last year’s tax reform bill, the US had the highest corporate tax rates in the developed world. The tax reform bill lowered corporate taxes, but the US corporate tax rate is still higher than that of many other developed countries.

The United States not only spends more on military weapons than the combined budgets of the next eight biggest spending countries, but also spends billions subsidizing the defense of developed counties like Germany, Japan, and South Korea. Bringing US troops home from these countries is an excellent place to start reducing spending on militarism.

The biggest cause of our economic problems is the Federal Reserve. America’s experiment with fiat currency has enabled a system based on private and public debt. This makes trade imbalances inevitable as the US government needs foreign investors to purchase its debt. Foreign investors get the money to purchase the US government’s debt by selling products to American consumers. A trade war could cause foreign investors to stop buying US debt instruments and could end the dollar’s world reserves currency status. This would cause a major economic crisis — but at least it would stop our shores from being flooded with “cheap foreign goods.”

President Trump’s claim that trade wars can be easily won is as credible as the neoconservative claim that the Iraq War would be a cakewalk. A trade war would likely push the global economy into a recession or worse. Instead of imposing costs on American businesses and consumers and putting those whose livelihoods depend on imports out of s job, President Trump should address the real causes of our economic problems: the welfare-warfare state, the IRS, and the Federal Reserve."

---

 

[Clevfan4life]

now theres a mother fukker that knows what the fuk is up with both parties in washington

[Westside Steve]

18 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

now theres a mother fukker that knows what the fuk is up with both parties in washington

And what expert might that be? 

WSS

[Clevfan4life]

5 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

And what expert might that be? 

WSS

click the link lazy boy....

[Westside Steve]

On 6/17/2018 at 1:06 PM, Clevfan4life said:

"President Trump’s planned 25 percent tariff on steel imports and 10 percent tariff on aluminum imports may provide a temporary boost for those industries, but the tariffs will do tremendous long-term damage to the American and global economies. Tariffs raise the price of, and reduce demand for, imported goods. Tariffs ensure the preferences of politicians, instead of the preferences of consumers, to determine how resources are allocated. This reduces economic efficiency and living standards.

Some justify these economic inefficiencies as being worth it to save American jobs. This ignores how tariffs increase costs of production for industries reliant on imported materials to produce their products. These increased costs lead to job losses in those industries. For example, President Trump’s proposed steel tariff could cost nearly 40,000 jobs in the steel-dependent auto manufacturing industry. Tariffs also cause job losses in industries reliant on exports. This is especially true if — as is likely to be the case — other countries respond to President Trump’s actions by increasing tariffs on US products.

Many of President Trump’s critics do not themselves support true free trade, which is the voluntary exchange of goods and services across borders. Instead, they support the managed (by government) trade of NAFTA and the World Trade Organization (WTO). NAFTA and the WTO promote world government and crony capitalism, not free markets. Any libertarian or free-market conservative who thinks the WTO promotes economic liberty should remember that the WTO once ordered Congress to raise taxes!

Foreign manufacturers may make convenient scapegoats for the problems facing US industry. However, the truth is that most of the problems plaguing American businesses stem from the US government. American businesses are burdened by thousands of federal regulations controlling every aspect of their operations. The tax system also burdens businesses. Until last year’s tax reform bill, the US had the highest corporate tax rates in the developed world. The tax reform bill lowered corporate taxes, but the US corporate tax rate is still higher than that of many other developed countries.

The United States not only spends more on military weapons than the combined budgets of the next eight biggest spending countries, but also spends billions subsidizing the defense of developed counties like Germany, Japan, and South Korea. Bringing US troops home from these countries is an excellent place to start reducing spending on militarism.

The biggest cause of our economic problems is the Federal Reserve. America’s experiment with fiat currency has enabled a system based on private and public debt. This makes trade imbalances inevitable as the US government needs foreign investors to purchase its debt. Foreign investors get the money to purchase the US government’s debt by selling products to American consumers. A trade war could cause foreign investors to stop buying US debt instruments and could end the dollar’s world reserves currency status. This would cause a major economic crisis — but at least it would stop our shores from being flooded with “cheap foreign goods.”

President Trump’s claim that trade wars can be easily won is as credible as the neoconservative claim that the Iraq War would be a cakewalk. A trade war would likely push the global economy into a recession or worse. Instead of imposing costs on American businesses and consumers and putting those whose livelihoods depend on imports out of s job, President Trump should address the real causes of our economic problems: the welfare-warfare state, the IRS, and the Federal Reserve."

---

 

I don't see any link here. Not that I give that much of a damn about it but...

WSS

[Westside Steve]

On 6/17/2018 at 1:08 PM, Clevfan4life said:

now theres a mother fukker that knows what the fuk is up with both parties in washington

And I don't see any link here either.

WSS

[Clevfan4life]

that was the excerpt from tbe previous post i made linking to the ron paul institute. so u read ron pauls writing

[Clevfan4life]

get it now?

[Westside Steve]

1 hour ago, Clevfan4life said:

get it now?

Okay BFD it's Ron Paul. Why go through this pain in my butt rather than just say it was Ron Paul? I don't care much about him one way or the other. And all this blather is still speculation we don't even know what forms these tariffs are going to exactly entail. Or how they will be negotiated, or whether or not they'll be any trade war no matter how hysterical MSNBC and the New York Times yet. 

Some people think Paul is cool because they think he's independent. Bottom line is I'm sure there are any number of educated economist with any number of opinions.

WSS

[Westside Steve]

One thing I can guarantee however, is the fact that the Trump haters would be apoplectic if he made some sort of a deal allowing more foreign steel and aluminum into the country. Then you guys will be crying about cheap for and steel putting the honest American worker out of business. Face it Cleve its politics. All you have to do is a simple Google search and the usual gang is suspects will have their opinion pages screaming trade War trade War trade War.

WSS

[Westside Steve]

https://www.nasdaq.com/article/trump-tariff-steel-industry-the-good-the-bad-the-ugly-cm938758

[Clevfan4life]

and thsys why i listen to men like ron paul who have the same msg since, well...the 80's. even tho i thi k krugman is a smart guy and is right on some things...his political bias is "quite obvious" so i dont pay much attn to him. Paul is outside the right vs left political spectrum. i guarantee u paul agrees wirh trump in principal with alot of things and vice versa....but u can see paul is concerned about the aforementioned galactic trade war that seems imminent.

my point of all this is that im not wetting my finger and holding it up to the wind such as guys like you do. im drawing on multiple sources that ive been listening to for quite some time and they too arent drifting in the political winds. do i agree with paul on everything? ofc not. try researching some stuff sometime instead of being spoonfed from one immutable source. its interesting stuff frankly even if at times you cant follow everything because you dont have a phd in econ. men like ron paul make it a point to break things down succinctly for people who havent studied econ professionally. educating urself doesnt mean ur going to magically turn into a liberal and start going to the truck stop gloryholes on the weekend with diehard.....although im sure he'd love to have you along. 

😁😜

[Westside Steve]

Not saying that Ron Paul is an idiot but just to put a gold star on your paper He also mentioned mentioned Krugman oh, and I'll see that and raise you a Robert Reich. Or Paul volcker? Keynes? Hell Karl Marx for that matter oh, and even though she doesn't have a degree in economics Ayn Rand. But you just as well off to close your eyes and throw a dart because you have plenty of guys that really know a lot and in that case they should agree but....

It comes back to being a braggart on the football board. Frankly if I had the job and didn't have to worry about jerks trying to deep-six me at every turn like the president has there's a basic framework I would set out and ask whatever experts I could get to make it happen. Or fire them and find somebody willing to. But so far I think it stinks. And a trade war is the least of my concern.

WSS

[Clevfan4life]

2 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

. And a trade war is the least of my concern.

WSS

and thats because you've never learned about our monetary system and how trade impacts the value of our currency. im not blowing it out my butt when i say the money you have sitting right now in ur savings could be affected by a trade war with just one country, let alone a ww3 trade war.

would prices adjust to such an event? i sure hope so. that farmer from dayton told me in the short term co sumers would benefit from soy producers having to dump their product on the cheap if china stops buying. but theres so many other industries that could collapse and people yank their money out of the market out of fear.....now we're getting into complexities i cant wrap my head around. chris would have been the guy for this but u guys ran him off a long time ago. point is this is stuff im not saying u should having an anxiety attack over, yet, but at the same time ur "no big deal trumps got this" attitude is also starkly shortsighted. men like trump moved significant portions of their money into foreign baskets ages ago cause the people who know things have quietly been telling wealthy people to hedge their bets and diversify their munnehs. how many of us common ngrs have that luxury?

[Westside Steve]

Great we're back to your pompous bragging about your deep understanding of the workings of the world's economic underpinnings. Just like the blowhards on the Browns board spouting off how little everyone else knows about football. Okay smart guy. Are we going to have a trade war and if so when? What countries will damage our economy by adding it tariffs to their goods, and just what goods would those be? Tell me when it starts and give me a few General ideas. Or just keep going on like you are blah blah blah well it's bad because it's, like, a war and war is like, bad right?

And just a guess from you oh enlightened one, which countries have the most to lose in any kind of trade conflict with the United States of America? We make better beer than the Canadiens now.

WSS

[Clevfan4life]

yawn....I just spent a couple posts saying that the deep workings of the worlds economy are far above my level. Which is why I furnished a link to the writings of a man who does infact understand the worlds economies at their most intricate levels. If you don't want to actually absorb what im saying don't respond. I can't answer your questions and outright said I couldn't....what I said was that if certain things go down than here are some very likely scenario's. I told you to go read sht up yourself but if you couldn't be bothered that's fine 

[Westside Steve]

7 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

yawn....I just spent a couple posts saying that the deep workings of the worlds economy are far above my level. Which is why I furnished a link to the writings of a man who does infact understand the worlds economies at their most intricate levels. If you don't want to actually absorb what im saying don't respond. I can't answer your questions and outright said I couldn't....what I said was that if certain things go down than here are some very likely scenario's. I told you to go read sht up yourself but if you couldn't be bothered that's fine 

Yes you did. You also spend a good portion of those posts berating other people for not understanding. At least not up to your level. So there you go sir. Put your money where your mouth is and make the prediction. And no, I couldn't be bothered. If I post a big load of crap and you asked me where it came from I'm glad to tell you. Also know I'm not inclined to read a hundred thousand words by every economist on the payroll of the left, the right or the mainstream media. I might possibly skim a summary but outside of that what's the point. Seriously if you think one of these guys, Ron Paul in particular, has got it in hand that look no further.

My predictions are valid though. I might be proven wrong and then you can do your Superior dance. If we go to war with North Korea if there's a trade war that plunges into a depression you name it. I say it's not going to happen and I think I will be proved right.

WSS

[Westside Steve]

Also if it's your intention to damur then when does Ron Paul think the trade war, and the ensuing depression, is going to happen and what does he think the eventual outcome will be? If for no other reason than even you don't think he will ever have his hands on the control of the economy.

WSS

[Clevfan4life]

he's predicting a massive collapse of the economy regardless of a trade war. The trade war would just likely hasten it in his opinion. Trade is just a piece of the puzzle that he says will contribute to the collapse, but there are other reasons dealing with our monetary structure that are far more pressing and he's likely right. This is something you won't hear from ANY economists on the right or left....so the likelihood you'd be familiar with any of these concepts is likely nill and vice versa for liberals who think Krugman and Reich invented economics. 

[TexasAg1969]

On 6/1/2018 at 8:01 PM, Clevfan4life said:

anyway...i was onboard with a mini trade war with china but now that stupid cnt is throwing canada and the EU in there. so essentially driving more business and investment to china and russia. does this make any sense? its like he's deliberately helping russia and china ascend. gotta deal with one country at a time. he's a drunk old man at a bar swing a broken beer bottle at anyone that walks past

Conservative Republican former VP Goldman-Sacks and  former ambassador to Canada has his opinions that are worth listening to if you have anything invested in the markets. Trump is an idiot who listens to idiots and they are about to wreck everything economically for this country on top of wrecking our alliances. From Bloomberg News interview:

 

[Westside Steve]

29 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Conservative Republican former VP Goldman-Sacks and  former ambassador to Canada has his opinions that are worth listening to if you have anything invested in the markets. Trump is an idiot who listens to idiots and they are about to wreck everything economically for this country on top of wrecking our alliances. From Bloomberg News interview:

 

At Halloween children dressed as ghosts and goblins are more likely to go to streets where they know the handouts will be bigger. As long as Uncle Sam looks the other way to bad trade deals or handouts like the Paris Accord or allowing Iran to continue their practices without sanctions or oversight they are happy to praise us.

WSS

[TexasAg1969]

4 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

At Halloween children dressed as ghosts and goblins are more likely to go to streets where they know the handouts will be bigger. As long as Uncle Sam looks the other way to bad trade deals or handouts like the Paris Accord or allowing Iran to continue their practices without sanctions or oversight they are happy to praise us.

WSS

You don't use sledgehammers for every problem. Trump has the same tool for everything that needs fixing. Just not smart.

[Westside Steve]

11 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

You don't use sledgehammers for every problem. Trump has the same tool for everything that needs fixing. Just not smart.

Nor is it smart to cower in fear of taking the brunt of the Europeans rhetoric, bend over and hand them the Vaseline. The Europeans and Canadians and Mexicans are not our enemies but they are certainly our adversaries in a World Market like Russia China Etc. I will assume you would support pulling out of the Iran deal, for instance, if John McCain were president. Of course he wouldn't have signed it in the first place.

Every country has their own best interest in mind, and the interests of the United States of America will never do better than second place for them, nor should they.

WSS

[Clevfan4life]

i think wss might be onto something with this adversarial combat trade thing. every trade deal should be signed right in the middke of an all out brawl by carefully selected combatants. cause trade ia an inherently adversarial notion ofc. ☕

[Westside Steve]

21 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

i think wss might be onto something with this adversarial combat trade thing. every trade deal should be signed right in the middke of an all out brawl by carefully selected combatants. cause trade ia an inherently adversarial notion ofc. ☕

I don't know if you're trying to be Pollyanna but trade is increasingly adversarial. Much of the manufacturing mining and Timber at cetera not to mention oil can be found in more than one place. Some manufactured goods are going to be labor specific which would equal be a cost for labor specific. That means in a country that can pay people less and spend less on EPA regulations are going to be at an advantage.

Canada and Germany shouldn't fall into that category but you have to know when to rob Peter or pay Paul. Why should we buy a steel and aluminum from Canada in the first place? Or corn or wheat? That's something we do pretty well.

WSS

[Clevfan4life]

yeah im just trolling....butt..trade is complicated steve. one thong that isnt talked about os our reserve status. id bet my left nut alot of these trade imbalances are in part at leadt the result of the u.s giving countries a sweet deal so that nobody even thinks about going off the dollar. trump can negotiate hard ball all he wants but if a number of countries mention perhaps dotching the dollar, it woukd have to be a significant number of countries colluding, but if they did that.....u would watch ur president, the man u voted for, performing explicit homosexual acts on live global tv. macron would get a thumb in his butt. because trump knows that would be the end of us. i listened years ago to the ceo of a fortune 500 company who may have had a few too many before he blurted to thevroom the u.s would go to war with the entire world if they ditched the dollar. the nearly free capital and credit that many u.s corporations enjoy would come crashing down over night. the u.s would instantly lose its place on the world stage.