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THE BROWNS BOARD

Steelers writer Ed Bouchette


jcam222

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12 hours ago, boo fagley said:

I am just pointing out his shortcomings. Cowher handed him a Super Bowl team and he won a title, but since then Tomiln has amounted to $hit.

How did Cowher hand him a Super Bowl team? Cowher was a coach not a GM.

Cowher's last year they were 8-8. They had the 11th best defense. Two years later they won the Super Bowl with Tomlin with the #1 defense and Ben's #20 offense.

Cowher "handed him" an 8-8 team. Neither Cowher or Tomlin picked the players, they coached them.

Zombo

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13 hours ago, boo fagley said:

If you dont care then why do keep arguing with me when I am right? I cant fire Tomlin like I cant fire Marvin Lewis. I have to believe that the Rooneys have a plan B if Tomiln cant deliver. Same for Haslam if Hue crashes and burns.

I hope the Browns get a good coach. 

I didn't say I thought you were right.  I think you are dead arss wrong.  That does not mean that I would give a shite if they would fire Tomlin.  Actually...I would give a Sheet....because that would mean that the Steelers FO has lost their way and that that franchise would be on it way down the toilet. So, like I said, bring it on...fire him.

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13 hours ago, boo fagley said:

I am just pointing out his shortcomings. Cowher handed him a Super Bowl team and he won a title, but since then Tomiln has amounted to $hit.

Maybe you should look to the Steeler's FO for the problems.  Maybe that is where the shortcomings lie.  Like I said, beyond the Big 3 Bs on their team, and maybe another good player or two, the overall talent level on that team is by NO means any better than any mediocre team in this league.

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On 7/17/2018 at 9:18 PM, Zombo said:

How did Cowher hand him a Super Bowl team? Cowher was a coach not a GM.

Cowher's last year they were 8-8. They had the 11th best defense. Two years later they won the Super Bowl with Tomlin with the #1 defense and Ben's #20 offense.

Cowher "handed him" an 8-8 team. Neither Cowher or Tomlin picked the players, they coached them.

Zombo

Have you compared both rosters?

You should because they are almost the same guys.

Parker, Ben, Miller, Farrior, Foote, Polumau, Taylor, Harrison, Hampton, Smith, Kiesel, McFadden, Starks, Smith on both teams. Were talking starters and not clip board holders.

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14 minutes ago, boo fagley said:

Have you compared both rosters?

You should because they are almost the same guys.

Parker, Ben, Miller, Farrior, Foote, Polumau, Taylor, Harrison, Hampton, Smith, Kiesel, McFadden, Starks, Smith on both teams. Were talking starters and not clip board holders.

And Tomlin took that group to 2 Super Bowls, winning one in 2008 and losing one in 2010 , where Cowher took them to just the one in 2005. 

And then that group all got old and retired and bypassed by teams with better, younger talent....and the Steelers FO did not replace them with similarly talented players.

So....what is your point faced with these facts?

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26 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

And Tomlin took that group to 2 Super Bowls, winning one in 2008 and losing one in 2010 , where Cowher took them to just the one in 2005. 

And then that group all got old and retired and bypassed by teams with better, younger talent....and the Steelers FO did not replace them with similarly talented players.

So....what is your point faced with these facts?

Cowher had 3 seasons with a HOF QB and the 1st season was Bens rookie year. 3 years divided by 1 Super Bowl = .333% Super Bowl win rate. Cowher never lost a Super Bowl with Ben.

Tomlin has had 11 seasons with a HOF QB. 11 seasons divided by 1 Super Bowl = .090% Super Bowl win rate. You just keep digging yourself a deeper hole.

The problem for the lack of Super Bowls is not Ben or the lack of talent. Thats stupid. Tomlin just isnt that good when it comes to the big game.

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58 minutes ago, boo fagley said:

Have you compared both rosters?

You should because they are almost the same guys.

Parker, Ben, Miller, Farrior, Foote, Polumau, Taylor, Harrison, Hampton, Smith, Kiesel, McFadden, Starks, Smith on both teams. Were talking starters and not clip board holders.

And???

Zombo

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51 minutes ago, boo fagley said:

Cowher had 3 seasons with a HOF QB and the 1st season was Bens rookie year. 3 years divided by 1 Super Bowl = .333% Super Bowl win rate. Cowher never lost a Super Bowl with Ben.

He never got to another one...how can he lose another won.  And BR had literally absolutely nothing to do with that win under Cowher.  They won despite BR...not because of him in that game. In fact, If I am not correct, that is considered THE worst performance by a winning QB in SB history.

Tomlin has had 11 seasons with a HOF QB. 11 seasons divided by 1 Super Bowl = .090% Super Bowl win rate. You just keep digging yourself a deeper hole.

You just continue demonstrating your ignorance.  Look at the defense that the 2005 to 2010 Steelers had..and look at what it has been lately...it has been a shitehole in comparison.   They have NOT been fuycking good enough as an overall team. 

The problem for the lack of Super Bowls is not Ben or the lack of talent. Thats stupid.

It is perfectly accurate. The Steeler defenses of recent years have been a shadow of what they were before...2005-10.  BR is a HOF QB...but that alone is not good enough.  You want proof? Here it is:

Drew Brees...as good or better than BR.... One Super Bowl appearance

Phillip Rivers....as good or better than BR....No Super Bowl appearances

Aaron Rodgers....better than BR...one Super Bowl appearance.  

Eli Manning.....probably not as good as BR......or the other guys I mention here....but he has 2 SB rings.

Why?  Because it is a 22 man game.  The rest of the team has to hold up their end. And the Giants did on a couple of occasions...where the other teams were only able to do it one time or never....because of the talent on the overall team.

Tomlin just isnt that good when it comes to the big game.

And here, again, you are being ignorant of two other major factors as to why the Steelers have not won more during BR's tenure:  Those two factors are called Tom Brady and Peyton Manning.    Those two are/were better than BR.  And their overall teams came out to be better than the Steelers.    Brady has made 6 Super Bowl appearances during the time BR has been in the league (and a couple before that)  Peyton made 4 Super Bowl appearance during the time BR has been in the league (2 with Indy, 2 with Denver).   That is a total of 10 SB appearances from the AFC made by those guys and those teams during BR's tenure.  And those guys and their teams were better than the Steelers. And the Steelers didn't lose because BR was so great while Tomlin was screwing up.  They were just met up against better QBs and better teams.

In BRs time in the AFC, the count is:  Brady has won 6 AFC titles,  Peyton has won 4, BR won 3, and Joe Flacco was Joe Fluko for one year and won one.    But, it seems that your argument is that BR is better than both Brady and Peyton...and should have won more than them. 

But, I don't know.....maybe your brain has sorely missing some components if you believe that.  Or maybe you are just a stupid arsebag about it.  One of those is true.

 

 

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On 7/2/2018 at 11:07 PM, jcam222 said:

He was being interviewed on Sirius last week. He said he believes that the Browns will beat the Steelers in the home opener by 3 or more. Found it interesting their reporter taking that stance. 

Ed is an idiot. I'm not making game predictions but he's not exactly well liked in Pittsburgh. He's like mark madden lite and madden is a WWE type character. 

I do think the Browns have improved quite a bit, especially with FINALLY giving a rookie qb the chance to develop without being forced into the lineup to save the farm. Tyrod is underrated and Mayfield can sit back and learn and not get ruined.

 

Edit: so..e of the comments in here are hilariously ridiculous. Brown losing a step? Wear and tear? Look up the little snippet from a former steeler Josh Harris who was a top shelf track athlete. He said Antonio brown has gotten faster this offseason. Dig up some peer opinions on brown. He was drafted late, he out works EVERYBODY. 

NFL peers rated him number two behind Marsha "system qb" Brady. Sure he's lost a step alright lol.

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16 hours ago, Vagitron said:

Ed is an idiot. I'm not making game predictions but he's not exactly well liked in Pittsburgh. He's like mark madden lite and madden is a WWE type character. 

I do think the Browns have improved quite a bit, especially with FINALLY giving a rookie qb the chance to develop without being forced into the lineup to save the farm. Tyrod is underrated and Mayfield can sit back and learn and not get ruined.

 

Edit: so..e of the comments in here are hilariously ridiculous. Brown losing a step? Wear and tear? Look up the little snippet from a former steeler Josh Harris who was a top shelf track athlete. He said Antonio brown has gotten faster this offseason. Dig up some peer opinions on brown. He was drafted late, he out works EVERYBODY. 

NFL peers rated him number two behind Marsha "system qb" Brady. Sure he's lost a step alright lol.

What is your opinion of Fagley's  position that Tomlin should be fired?

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40 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

What is your opinion of Fagley's  position that Tomlin should be fired?

Absolutely insane. He's one of the best coaches in the league and I'd say the same if he were the head coach of the Browns. The "fire Tomlin" narrative is reserved for the ignorant and frankly the racist.

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15 minutes ago, Vagitron said:

Absolutely insane. He's one of the best coaches in the league and I'd say the same if he were the head coach of the Browns. The "fire Tomlin" narrative is reserved for the ignorant and frankly the racist.

Vagitron and I finally agree on something. Somewhere in hell, Art Modell just got frozen over.

Zombo

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32 minutes ago, Vagitron said:

Absolutely insane. He's one of the best coaches in the league and I'd say the same if he were the head coach of the Browns. The "fire Tomlin" narrative is reserved for the ignorant and frankly the racist.

I don't assign Fagley's opinion as being racist...not sure where you get that.   Ignorant, yes, but I would not go so far as to say racist.

I mean, he thinks that BR should have been in and won more Super Bowls.  And of course, he should not have.  They have simply gotten beaten by better teams, better QBs.   As good as BR may be,  he is not as good as Brady or Peyton..who between them had 10 trips to the SB in BRs time with the Steelers. And, yes, Tomlin is a good solid coach (not sure about one of the best..but very good)....but just about anyone would agree that he is not better than Belichick...or maybe even Tony Dungy.  It is certainly no slight to him that he...and BR, have been beaten most times by better QBs, better coaches, better teams.

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10 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

I don't assign Fagley's opinion as being racist...not sure where you get that.   Ignorant, yes, but I would not go so far as to say racist.

I mean, he thinks that BR should have been in and won more Super Bowls.  And of course, he should not have.  They have simply gotten beaten by better teams, better QBs.   As good as BR may be,  he is not as good as Brady or Peyton..who between them had 10 trips to the SB in BRs time with the Steelers. And, yes, Tomlin is a good solid coach (not sure about one of the best..but very good)....but just about anyone would agree that he is not better than Belichick...or maybe even Tony Dungy.  It is certainly no slight to him that he...and BR, have been beaten most times by better QBs, better coaches, better teams.

People in Pittsburgh on the fire Tomlin train are racist. Faggle is just stupid.

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11 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

I don't assign Fagley's opinion as being racist...not sure where you get that.   Ignorant, yes, but I would not go so far as to say racist.

I mean, he thinks that BR should have been in and won more Super Bowls.  And of course, he should not have.  They have simply gotten beaten by better teams, better QBs.   As good as BR may be,  he is not as good as Brady or Peyton..who between them had 10 trips to the SB in BRs time with the Steelers. And, yes, Tomlin is a good solid coach (not sure about one of the best..but very good)....but just about anyone would agree that he is not better than Belichick...or maybe even Tony Dungy.  It is certainly no slight to him that he...and BR, have been beaten most times by better QBs, better coaches, better teams.

Matter of opinion. The Steelers also shouldn't have lost the bowl against gb. Arians telegraphed run plays, Matthew's was on it and blew up Mendenhall. Game over basically.

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4 minutes ago, Vagitron said:

Matter of opinion. The Steelers also shouldn't have lost the bowl against gb. Arians telegraphed run plays, Matthew's was on it and blew up Mendenhall. Game over basically.

No, not a matter of opinion.   Rodgers is better, Green Bay was better.  That's a fact. 

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4 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

No, not a matter of opinion.   Rodgers is better, Green Bay was better.  That's a fact. 

Rodgers has carried the Packers offense for awhile now.....one of my FL QBs until he got hurt last year. (backed up by Wentz until he got hurt but Rodgers came back that week.....how the NFL works)

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9 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

No, not a matter of opinion.   Rodgers is better, Green Bay was better.  That's a fact. 

Oh ya? According to you? Sounds like an opinion to me gipper. Christ.

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10 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Really?  I have not heard that.....but then, it is Pittsburgh, so I should not be surprised.

Gipper it doesn't need to be a constant Cleveland vs pittsburgh thing. Cleveland has plenty of racist bs too. Unfortunately there are pockets of Pittsburgh that are very racially charged especially as you head out of the city and into the more rural non pittsburgh areas.

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14 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

No, not a matter of opinion.   Rodgers is better, Green Bay was better.  That's a fact. 

Just because a team has the better qb doesn't mean they're going to win a playoff game. Who was the better qb, Joe Montana or Phil Simms? Just so happened the Giants had a defensive wrecking crew led by Lawrence Taylor. 

PS one of Eli's Super Bowl wins was thanks to one of the biggest miracle catches in the history of the NFL.

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48 minutes ago, Vagitron said:

Gipper it doesn't need to be a constant Cleveland vs pittsburgh thing. Cleveland has plenty of racist bs too. Unfortunately there are pockets of Pittsburgh that are very racially charged especially as you head out of the city and into the more rural non pittsburgh areas.

Well...given what has been going on....I agree that the racists have been emboldened...wherever they may be.

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39 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Just because a team has the better qb doesn't mean they're going to win a playoff game. Who was the better qb, Joe Montana or Phil Simms? Just so happened the Giants had a defensive wrecking crew led by Lawrence Taylor. 

PS one of Eli's Super Bowl wins was thanks to one of the biggest miracle catches in the history of the NFL.

Absolutely.   Having the best QB does not guarantee a thing.   See those two Giants games you mention.....see just this past Super Bowl. 

And face it...BR won a Super Bowl when he was NOT the best QB.  The Seattle game....based on outstanding defense, and not QB play.   BR played worse than any winning QB in SB history.   And arguably you could say that Kurt Warner, whose team BR pulled one out against, is as good or better than BR.

And it could certainly be argued that the 70s Steeler dynasty won Super Bowls where the other team had the better QB.   Despite what Ghoolie thinks,  both Roger Staubach and Fran Tarkenton by no means take a back seat to Bradshaw.  (but then for his 4th win, he faced Vince Ferragamo....so there is that).

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Super Bowl
Date
Starting Quarterback/Team College Date of Birth Age
I
1/15/67
BART STARR, Green Bay Packers Alabama 1/9/34 33
LEN DAWSON, Kansas City Chiefs Purdue 6/20/35 31
 
II
1/14/68
BART STARR, Green Bay Packers Alabama 1/9/34 34
Daryle Lamonica, Oakland Raiders Notre Dame 7/17/41 26
 
III
1/12/69
JOE NAMATH, New York Jets Alabama 5/31/43 25
Earl Morrall, Baltimore Colts Michigan State 5/17/34 34
 
IV
1/11/70
LEN DAWSON, Kansas City Chiefs Purdue 6/20/35 34
Joe Kapp, Minnesota Vikings California 3/19/38 31
 
V
1/17/71
JOHNNY UNITAS, Baltimore Colts Louisville 5/7/33 37
Craig Morton, Dallas Cowboys California 2/5/43 27
 
VI
1/16/72
ROGER STAUBACH, Dallas Cowboys Navy 2/5/42 29
BOB GRIESE, Miami Dolphins Purdue 2/3/45 26
 
VII
1/14/73
BOB GRIESE, Miami Dolphins Purdue 2/3/45 27
Bill Kilmer, Washington Redskins UCLA 9/5/39 33
 
VIII
1/13/74
BOB GRIESE, Miami Dolphins Purdue 2/3/45 28
FRAN TARKENTON, Minnesota Vikings Georgia 2/3/40 33
 
IX
1/12/75
TERRY BRADSHAW, Pittsburgh Steelers Louisiana Tech 9/2/48 26
FRAN TARKENTON, Minnesota Vikings Georgia 2/3/40 34
 
X
1/18/76
TERRY BRADSHAW, Pittsburgh Steelers Louisiana Tech 9/2/48 27
ROGER STAUBACH, Dallas Cowboys Navy 2/5/42 33
 
XI
1/9/77
KEN STABLER, Oakland Raiders Alabama 12/25/45 31
FRAN TARKENTON, Minnesota Vikings Georgia 2/3/40 36
 
XII
1/15/78
ROGER STAUBACH, Dallas Cowboys Navy 2/5/42 35
Craig Morton, Denver Broncos California 2/5/43 34
 
XIII
1/21/79
TERRY BRADSHAW, Pittsburgh Steelers Louisiana Tech 9/2/48 30
ROGER STAUBACH, Dallas Cowboys Navy 2/5/42 36
 
XIV
1/20/80
TERRY BRADSHAW, Pittsburgh Steelers Louisiana Tech 9/2/48 31
Vince Ferragamo, Los Angeles Rams California, Nebraska 4/24/54 25
 
XV
1/25/81
Jim Plunkett, Oakland Raiders Stanford 12/5/47 33
Ron Jaworski, Philadelphia Eagles Youngstown State 3/23/51 29
 
XVI
1/24/82
JOE MONTANA, San Francisco 49ers Notre Dame 6/11/56 25
Ken Anderson, Cincinnati Bengals Augustana (IL) 2/15/49 32
 
XVII
1/30/83
Joe Theismann, Washington Redskins Notre Dame 9/9/49 33
David Woodley, Miami Dolphins Louisiana State 10/25/58 24
 
XVIII
1/22/84
Jim Plunkett, Los Angeles Raiders Stanford 12/5/47 36
Joe Theismann, Washington Redskins Notre Dame 9/9/49 34
 
XIX
1/20/85
JOE MONTANA, San Francisco 49ers Notre Dame 6/11/56 28
DAN MARINO, Miami Dolphins Pittsburgh 9/15/61 23
 
XX
1/26/86
Jim McMahon, Chicago Bears BYU 8/21/59 26
Tony Eason, New England Patriots Illinois 10/8/59 26
 
XXI
1/25/87
Phil Simms, New York Giants Morehead State 11/3/54 32
JOHN ELWAY, Denver Broncos Stanford 6/28/60 26
 
XXII
1/31/88
Doug Williams, Washington Redskins Grambling 8/9/55 32
JOHN ELWAY, Denver Broncos Stanford 6/28/60 27
 
XXIII
1/22/89
JOE MONTANA, San Francisco 49ers Notre Dame 6/11/56 32
Boomer Esiason, Cincinnati Bengals Maryland 4/17/61 27
 
XXIV
1/28/90
JOE MONTANA, San Francisco 49ers Notre Dame 6/11/56 33
JOHN ELWAY, Denver Broncos Stanford 6/28/60 29
 
XXV
1/27/91
Jeff Hostetler, New York Giants West Virginia 4/22/61 29
JIM KELLY, Buffalo Bills Miami (FL) 2/14/60 30
 
XXVI
1/26/92
Mark Rypien, Washington Redskins Washington State 10/2/62 30
JIM KELLY, Buffalo Bills Miami (FL) 2/14/60 31
 
XXVII
1/31/93
TROY AIKMAN, Dallas Cowboys Oklahoma, UCLA 11/21/66 26
JIM KELLY, Buffalo Bills Miami (FL) 2/14/60 32
 
XXVIII
1/30/94
TROY AIKMAN, Dallas Cowboys Oklahoma, UCLA 11/21/66 27
JIM KELLY, Buffalo Bills Miami (FL) 2/14/60 33
 
XXIX
1/29/95
STEVE YOUNG, San Francisco 49ers BYU 10/11/61 33
Stan Humphries, San Diego Chargers
NE Louisiana 4/14/65 29
 
XXX
1/28/96
TROY AIKMAN, Dallas Cowboys Oklahoma, UCLA 11/21/66 29
Neil O'Donnell, Pittsburgh Steelers Maryland 7/3/66 29
 
XXXI
1/26/97
BRETT FAVRE, Green Bay Packers Southern Mississippi 10/10/69 27
Drew Bledsoe, New England Patriots Washington State 2/14/72 24
 
XXXII
1/25/98
JOHN ELWAY, Denver Broncos Stanford 6/28/60 37
BRETT FAVRE, Green Bay Packers Southern Mississippi 10/10/69 28
 
XXXIII
1/31/99
JOHN ELWAY, Denver Broncos Stanford 6/28/60 38
Chris Chandler, Atlanta Falcons Washington 10/12/65 33
 
XXXIV
1/30/00
KURT WARNER, St. Louis Rams Northern Iowa 6/22/71 28
Steve McNair, Tennessee Titans Alcorn State 2/14/73 26
 
XXXV
1/28/01
Trent Dilfer, Baltimore Ravens Fresno State 3/13/72 28
Kerry Collins, New York Giants Penn State 12/30/72 28
 
XXXVI
2/3/02
Tom Brady, New England Patriots Michigan 8/3/77 24
KURT WARNER, St. Louis Rams Northern Iowa 6/22/71 30
 
XXXVII
1/26/03
Brad Johnson, Tampa Bay Buccaneers Florida State 9/13/68 34
Rich Gannon, Oakland Raiders Delaware 12/20/65 37
 
XXXVIII
2/1/04
Tom Brady, New England Patriots Michigan 8/3/77 26
Jake Delhomme, Carolina Panthers Louisiana-Lafayette 1/10/75 29
 
XXXIX
2/6/05
Tom Brady, New England Patriots Michigan 8/3/77 27
Donovan McNabb, Philadelphia Eagles Syracuse 11/25/76 28
 
XL
2/5/06
Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers Miami (OH) 3/2/82 23
Matt Hasselbeck, Seattle Seahawks Boston College 9/25/75 30
 
XLI
2/4/07
Peyton Manning, Indianapolis Colts Tennessee 3/24/76 30
Rex Grossman, Chicago Bears Florida 8/23/80 26
 
XLII
2/3/08
Eli Manning, New York Giants Mississippi 1/3/81 27
Tom Brady, New England Patriots Michigan 8/3/77 30
 
XLIII
2/1/09
Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers Miami (OH) 3/2/82 26
KURT WARNER, Arizona Cardinals Northern Iowa 6/22/71 37
 
XLIV
2/7/10
Drew Brees, New Orleans Saints Purdue 1/15/79 31
Peyton Manning, Indianapolis Colts Tennessee 3/24/76 33
 
XLV
2/6/11
Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay Packers California 12/2/83 27
Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers Miami (OH) 3/2/82 28
 
XLVI
2/5/12
Eli Manning, New York Giants Mississippi 1/3/81 31
Tom Brady, New England Patriots Michigan 8/3/77 34
 
XLVII
2/3/13
Joe Flacco, Baltimore Ravens Delaware 1/16/85 28
Colin Kaepernick, San Francisco 49ers Nevada 11/3/87 25
 
XLVIII
2/2/14
Russell Wilson, Seattle Seahawks NC State, Wisconsin 11/29/88 25
Peyton Manning, Denver Broncos Tennessee 3/24/76 37
 
XLIX
2/1/15
Tom Brady, New England Patriots Michigan 8/3/77 37
Russell Wilson, Seattle Seahawks NC State, Wisconsin 11/29/88 26
 
50
2/7/16
Peyton Manning, Denver Broncos Tennessee 3/24/76 39
Cam Newton, Carolina Panthers Auburn 5/11/89 26
   
LI 2/5/17 Tom Brady, New England Patriots Michigan 8/3/77 39
Matt Ryan, Atlanta Falcons Boston College 5/17/85 31
   
LII 2/4/18 Tom Brady, New England Patriots Michigan 8/3/77 40
Nick Foles, Philadelphia Eagles Arizona 1/20/89 29

And see all this:   I will have put in red those games won by what I consider to NOT be the best QB. If it is  at all close I left it alone.

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34 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Well....maybe....but it is an opinion shared by 99.9% of humanity that Rodgers is better.

It's not a massive gap, it's sure as Sheet not much of a talking point. They are both pretty firmly top 5 unless your name is David Carr. Frankly Ben is underrated and if I had to start a franchise tomorrow about the only qb I'd consider taking over Ben is Rodgers. Marsha is a product of that system. He would be a good qb outside of new England but wouldn't have nearly the amount of success he's had. Either way none of it begins to matter, the season quickly approaches and that's all that matters.

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1 hour ago, Vagitron said:

It's not a massive gap, it's sure as Sheet not much of a talking point. They are both pretty firmly top 5 unless your name is David Carr. Frankly Ben is underrated and if I had to start a franchise tomorrow about the only qb I'd consider taking over Ben is Rodgers. Marsha is a product of that system. He would be a good qb outside of new England but wouldn't have nearly the amount of success he's had. Either way none of it begins to matter, the season quickly approaches and that's all that matters.

Any credibility you had just went into the toilet for sure it is Tom Brady's and makes New England not New England that makes Tom BradyAny credibility you had just went into the toilet for sure it is Tom Brady's and makes New England not New England that makes Tom

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5 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Any credibility you had just went into the toilet for sure it is Tom Brady's and makes New England not New England that makes Tom BradyAny credibility you had just went into the toilet for sure it is Tom Brady's and makes New England not New England that makes Tom

Is that right? Why do you think they traded Jimmy? Brady isn't going to be playing much longer. Matt Cassell wasn't a very good qb, he went 11-5. The pats are 13-6 without Brady. Brady is no doubt good but when he's gone they will plug in another qb and continue to win. The pats are bill.

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