The Gipper Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 The topic on Charlie Frye being the "worst" QB got me to thinking, thus I am going to conduct a poll of sorts. This is called "Rate the Browns" QBs. Here follows all the QBs in Browns history in alphabetical order who have had more than 90 attempts as a Brown. For reference I am giving the number of attempts each had with the Browns. Rate the best to the worst if you will or use whatever method you wish to choose. I didn't include guys that had a cup of coffee. I figured 90 attempts was a decent cutoff point: Derek Anderson (927) Tim Couch (1714) Gary Danielson (248) Ty Detmer (91) Trent Dilfer (333) Ken Dorsey (92) Charlie Frye (566) Jeff Garcia (252) Otto Graham (2626) Kelly Holcomb (507) Bernie Kosar (3150) David Mays (141) Luke McCown (98) Paul McDonald (767) Bill Nelsen (1314) Jim Ninowski (371) Tommy O'Connell (206) Mike Pagel (299) Doug Pederson (210) Todd Philcox (143) Mike Phipps (1317) Milt Plum (1083) Brady Quinn (97) George Ratterman (204) Frank Ryan (1755) Mark Rypien (128) Brian Sipe (3439) Don Strock (91) Vinny Testaverde (998) Mike Tomczak (211) Eric Zeier (161) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 I will now put my own rankings on my own poll: Top 10 Browns QBs: 1. Graham (greatest winning QB in Pro Football history) 2. Kosar (5 years of contending) 3. Sipe (FYI, only took Browns to playoffs one time...but was great competitor) 4. Ryan ( aside from Graham won Browns only other title) 5. Nelsen (took Browns to playoffs several years) 6. Couch (took Browns from a paper franchise to playoffs, underrated by many )7. Testaverde (could be awesome, could drive you crazy. Had a couple of good years) 8. Danielson (excellent gap QB and mentor to Kosar) 9. Plum (accurate passer) 10. Anderson (again, hot and cold. Had at least one outstanding year) Bottom 10 (10 being the worst): 1. Pederson (below average gap QB) 2. McCown (not much was expected from him...he lived up to expectations) 3. Rypien (came here after winning a SB, proved SB was all about Joe Gibbs coaching) 4. Garcia (a system QB in the wrong system with the wrong attitude) 5. Eric Zeier (all thought he had potential...he disappointed) 6. Frye (lost it somehow in one game) 7. McDonald (disappointing, no chutzpah) 8. Phipps (should have been on top 10 list. Had the physical skills, but he really just was too dumb to play QB. Being a part of the Warfield trade does him no favors). 9. Ken Dorsey (the opposite of Phipps. Smart enough to play, but absolutely had no physical skills to play QB in the NFL) 10. Todd Philcox (a Bill Belichick special. He was a combination of Dorsey and Phipps...too dumb AND no physical skills. BB thought he could make chicken salad out of chicken sh**) On the other QBs: Quinn is too early to judge (hopefully someday we can rank him at least #2). The others were either backups of varying quality (Ninowski/Strock/Pagel were a couple of decent ones...Mays not so much) or were temporary starters af basic mediocrity (Detmer/Holcomb/O'Connell/Ratterman/Tomczak/Dilfer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffer X Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 I pretty much agree with your whole list Gipper. Very nicely done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 Nice list Gipper. I would have Ty Detmer up there for the crap QB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaygroundLegend Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Otto Grahm Bernie Kosar Brian Sipe Kelly Holcomb Jeff Garcia Tim Couch Charlie Frye Luke McCown Trent Dilfer Derek Anderson Ty Detmer Ken Dorsey Mike Phipps Thats the best I can do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gips Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Gippers list is about where i stand as well...DA cant rightfully be added to that list just yet due to poor past training/mentoring/coaching...i look at the new regime as a potential new lease on DAs career but only if he can grab the bull by the horns and learn a lot fast but i suspect if he wins the starting job he will be on our worst list in 2 years...hehehehe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Grahm Sipe Kosar Please tell me the rest never existed. I hope nobody on this board was one of the yahoo's clamouring for Spurgeon Wynn. (talk about a crapshoot) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 It wasnt long after red right 88 that the fans started to lose confidence in Sipe and everyone wanted Paul McDonald to take the reigns because of some flash in the pan mop up duty and a bullet for an arm, The fans got what they wanted and he was a bust. Pretty good work on this thread Gipper, You sure you and Steve are good friends,you seem a little bright for that dim bulb! Just kidding,no need for anyone to get their panties in a bunch. I am too bright for that dim bulb, but I take mercy on him anyway since he is an old "homeboy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Nice list Gipper. I would have Ty Detmer up there for the crap QB's. Of course Detmer was also brought in when this was just a paper franchise, so I give him some slack there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Grahm Sipe Kosar Please tell me the rest never existed. I hope nobody on this board was one of the yahoo's clamouring for Spurgeon Wynn. (talk about a crapshoot) [b] If you are discounting what Bill Nelsen did here you don't know Browns history. He probably QBed the Browns to the playoffs 3 or 4 years, which is more than Sipe. And Wynn threw only like 50 passes as a Cleveland Brown so I didn't include him. FYI, Len Dawson also played QB for the Browns but only had 40-50 throws....but he ended up in the HOF.[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 by Pro Bowl Appearances Graham - 5 Ryan - 3 Plum - 2 Nelsen, Sipe, Kosar, Anderson - 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 OK, here is the scoop on who have been the primary starting QBs in Browns history. I am giving the name, the number of playoff appearances that QB led the team to, and the number of years they were the primary QB of the Browns, in somewhat chronological order: Graham: 10 years, 10 playoff appearances O'Connell: 2 years, 1 playoff Plum: 4 years, 1 playoff Ryan: 6 years, 3 playoff Nelsen: 4 years, 3 playoffs Phipps: 4 years, 1 playoff Sipe: 8 years, 1 playoff Kosar: 7 years, 5 playoffs Testaverde: 3 years, 1 playoff Couch: 4 years, 1 playoff The following QBs were the primary QB of the Browns for one year only without making the playoffs McDonald, Tomczak, Holcomb, Garcia, Dilfer, Frye. Derek Anderson has been the primary QB for 2 years without making a playoff appearance, though he came close once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Error alert! Sipe actually QBed the Browns to 2 playoff appearances. In addition to the Red Right 88 season of 1980 he was also the QB in 1982 during the strike shortened season. So make it 2 out of 8 years, not 1. In 1982 the Browns also lost to the Raiders, 27-10 in their only playoff game. Thus, FYI, Brian Sipe never QBed the Browns to a single victory in the playoffs. Both games were losses to the Raiders. Even Testaverde had a playoff win vs. the Patriots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 OK, here is the scoop on who have been the primary starting QBs in Browns history. I am giving the name, the number of playoff appearances that QB led the team to, and the number of years they were the primary QB of the Browns, in somewhat chronological order: Graham: 10 years, 10 playoff appearances O'Connell: 2 years, 1 playoff Plum: 4 years, 1 playoff Ryan: 6 years, 3 playoff Nelsen: 4 years, 3 playoffs Phipps: 4 years, 1 playoff Sipe: 8 years, 1 playoff Kosar: 7 years, 5 playoffs Testaverde: 3 years, 1 playoff Couch: 4 years, 1 playoff The following QBs were the primary QB of the Browns for one year only without making the playoffs McDonald, Tomczak, Holcomb, Garcia, Dilfer, Frye. Derek Anderson has been the primary QB for 2 years without making a playoff appearance, though he came close once. 1. Graham 2. Kosar 3. Sipe 4. Ryan 5. Nelson 6. Couch 7. Testeverde 8. Plum 9. Anderson 10. O'Connell 6-7-8 are easily and quickly vaultable for Anderson or Quinn. Anderson was better individually than anyone since Kosar in his one big season, so you can see why the Browns have not so eaily disposed of him. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Error alert! Sipe actually QBed the Browns to 2 playoff appearances. In addition to the Red Right 88 season of 1980 he was also the QB in 1982 during the strike shortened season. So make it 2 out of 8 years, not 1. In 1982 the Browns also lost to the Raiders, 27-10 in their only playoff game. Thus, FYI, Brian Sipe never QBed the Browns to a single victory in the playoffs. Both games were losses to the Raiders. Even Testaverde had a playoff win vs. the Patriots. Sipe was benched for McDonald at the end of that year and McDonald actually started that second playoff game to Raiders. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 [b] If you are discounting what Bill Nelsen did here you don't know Browns history. He probably QBed the Browns to the playoffs 3 or 4 years, which is more than Sipe. And Wynn threw only like 50 passes as a Cleveland Brown so I didn't include him. FYI, Len Dawson also played QB for the Browns but only had 40-50 throws....but he ended up in the HOF.[/b] Not at all. Just who i think of when i think Browns/QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 Sipe was benched for McDonald at the end of that year and McDonald actually started that second playoff game to Raiders. Zombo OK, but Sipe was the predominant starter for that season. I suspect that happened a few other times where the QB listed as the primary starter (I took the info from pro-football-reference.com) was benched at some point near the end of the season yet it was still that person who took the majority of the snaps in a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 I don't really remember Phipps because I didn't watch the Browns much back then. I sure remember him and he was terrible from day one. To this day he's the stiffest QB I have ever seen. He looked like a robot dropping back to pass. He is easily the worst QB in Brown's history. 50+ TD's and 100+ INT's. In his last year with the Brown's he threw 4 TD's and 19 INT's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 I sure remember him and he was terrible from day one. To this day he's the stiffest QB I have ever seen. He looked like a robot dropping back to pass. He is easily the worst QB in Brown's history. 50+ TD's and 100+ INT's. In his last year with the Brown's he threw 4 TD's and 19 INT's. WOW, I didn't recall that it had gotten that bad. I must have blotted that out of my memory. I guess it must have been PTSS that caused that loss of memory (post traumatic stress syndrome). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 1. Graham 2. Ryan 3. Kosar 4. Nelson 5. Sipe That is the order of the only 5 really good qbs to ever play for this team. All the rest ranged from journeyman to bum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 The only change I'd make from Peens is I'd put Plum in there. Probably drop Nelson to #6. The only reason I'd vote Sipe over Nelson was that Sipe was actually the NFL's MVP one year. Plum's QB rating is still the highest in Brown's history. Two time Pro Bowler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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