Flugel Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 WARNING: If posting about NFL news outside of the Browns' makes you nervous - don't read any further. If you like relevant news about QB competitions and the criteria for WINNING a QB competition - you may find it pertinent to our situation somewhat. Kyle Orton just won the job over the guy with the STRONGER arm. They tell me you need to be VERY intelligent to get a degree at Purdue and QB is a position that demands intelligence from the QB. It's no surprise, Orton won a higher percentage of his starts in his rookie season than Rex Grossman had in he books at the time of his first appearance. If you're a fan of the guy that overcomes what the NFL experts perceive as major flaws or weaknesses, this a guy that's FUN to admire. Hard to believe Kyle Orton gets no respect when you look at his record of 21-12 as an NFL starter. Games are played with 1 thing in mind and 1 thing only. WIN. Here's a 4th round kid out of Purdue that broke many of Drew Brees' passing records. I remember in Orton's final season at Purdue they started out undefeated when he was healthy. When he got injured they started to lose games. Again, when he was at Purdue starting at QB - the winning percentages far exceeded the expectations. While I think Jay Cutler has a VERY bright future - there's 1 thing alluding the kid. WINNING. Whether it was at Vanderbilt or taking over an elite AFC team that competed in an AFC Championship with Plummer 1 season before Jay got the keys to the kingdom - they lost more games than they won. Not only that, they NEVER made the playoffs or Bowl games once. Just as a reminder, Vandy played in a Bowl Game this past season with a QB's name the average Joe prolly needs to look up. Cutler is SMART and has alot of ideal intangibles you WANT in a QB. That said, I NEED to see better poise in the clutch from him. For example, when it was TIME to win the game vrs San Diego - Cutler actually made a boneheaded mistake and gave the ball back to Denver. Ed Hochuli's and divine intervention stepped in to overturn the boneheaded mistake. If Cutler doesn't turn the winning percentage thing around REAL soon - he could be the NEXT Jeff George leaving a TON of untapped skills behind for lacking poise at the time the game is on the line. ALOT of NFL QBs would have killed to have Marshall, Royal, Scheffler (TE) and former 1st round pick in NE Daniel Graham to throw to with the reputable mind of Shanahan guiding him. I'm not so sure Shanahan DESERVED to be the scapegoat for an organization that has consistently tallied one of the better winning percentages in their conference PRE-Cutler. Can you just imagine the drama in 2009 if Orton CONTINUES his current winning percentage as a starter and Cutler doesn't alter the type of winning percentage that left his previous team 17-21 when he was in charge? Did this guy choose Vandy because he's got STAGE fright problems? They only seat 40,000 fans at a place where season tickets were sold for $99.00 per person in 2008. Don't believe me - research what their season ticket prices are in 2009 and let me know how far off I was here. The STRONGER arm doesn't always produce the most efficient passer. We've learned this the hard way. We haven't beaten 1 single AFC team that has won MORE than 8 games when we had the strongest arm taking snaps from Center the last 3 seasons. Poise, accuracy and brain cells matter. Cutler has the brains and athleticism but when he has the GAME where the great ones usually WIN it - I'm usually reading or hearing excuses. When you demand ginormous money - you better get over your stage fright or the critics are gonna hunt you down - especially if you;re refusing to sign autographs for the NEW fanbase accepting you with open arms. It's now or never. - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gips Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Wow i cant believe orton won the starting job in denver already now if mangini would just name BQ the starter the controversy would be over because i think most of us know BQ is most likely going to start... As far as cutler goes i think he is going to tank in chicago...he should have just shutup and stayed in denver... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pl4tinum Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 I am having a brainfart, who was he competing with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted June 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 I am having a brainfart, who was he competing with? That's understandable Pl4t. It was Chris Simms. It's somewhat relevant news to the Nashville area since Simms was on the Titan's depth chart heading into the offseason that bridges 08 to 09. We all know Denver acquired Simms shortly thereafter and many a post this offseason had Simms beating out Orton before Orton did what he always does: WIN. He WON his teammates and his coach in the process. Anyway, here's the headline on the sports page 2C of the Tennessean via the Associated Press: "Broncos Name Orton as Starter." Here's an excerpt: "Broncos Coach Josh McDaniels decided to end the suspense early heading into next month's training camp." There must be SOME reason why Orton ALWAYS wins over his teammates and coaches in lieu of the stronger arms. The folks that don't like overachievers better than rocket arms don't give a crap about Orton. He's not the pretty boy OR the prototype. That said, Quinn has a BETTER physique than Orton along with many of the same WINNING intangibles Orton has. BOTH kids made the NFL map because they consistently WON for schools that didn't ALWAYS win before they got there. Purdue ONLY won when they had Brees before Orton AND they only seemed to win consistently when Orton was healthy enough to start. You bring me a 21-12 winning consistency and I don't care if he's MANAGING the game. Why? I've seen our defense keeping Pittsburgh to 10 points and the CARELESSNESS of DA immediatley before halftime was ALL they needed to clinch the W. Winners WIN. Didn't Chicago set a record for consecutive victories when Orton was JUST a rookie? I think they won 8 in a row and had a conference best record giving them homefield throughout the playoffs when Orton was MANAGING the game. THEN Chicago inserted Glassbones Grossman in their playoff matchup vrs Carolina and LOST to a team Orton beat during the regular season. The Bears haven't exactly had the equivalents of Eddie Royal and Brandon Marshall playing WR there in recent years. If Denver gets IMPROVED game MANAGEMENT skills from their QB, their defense can REST longer than it has been able to. - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AdaM Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 I am having a brainfart, who was he competing with? Brett Favre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted June 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Orton actually has plenty of arm. He does seem to throw a loose ball and the knock on him used to be that he didn't take care of himself physically, which concerned me. He showed up for the Combine looking like a young suburban dad on a diet of beer. LOL! That's hilarious but it's a good point Shep. - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 I remember Mike Ditka saying a couple of seasons ago that Kyle Orton was the smartest and best QB on Chi's team...no surprise to Me here solidifying the fact that smart Qb'S WIN...and I think its hightime Mangini name Quinn,.....so this lends more creedence to what Flugs pointed out so adeptly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sez.EJ Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Simms never really had a chance.. Orton is way better.. very efficient and better than he gets credit for. Simms is a career backup. It's fun to root for him if you like his dad.. but he's not his dad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted June 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 I honestly don't think Orton has stepped up much. The year the Bears were pretty good, he had a passer rating in the 50s. Since the NFL began, rookie QBs have NEVER been expected to have ginormous passer ratings so if he can win 8 consecutive starts in the process of leading his team to homefield advantage throughout the playoffs - there's some serious promise there. They won 13 games in 06 so I'm not gonna share your sentiment that it was a terrible job from a wide eyed rookie QB. THINK about it. Don't change rookie criteria just because he's not as pretty as Matt Leinart Shep. Come on. The guy's passer ratings increased by over 20 points from the rookie year to the 3rd year (steady progress). Hence, the GROWTH the Bears were looking for in their starting QB had their Head Coach naming Kyle Orton as the starter for 2008. In essence, Orton has really started MORE games from 2006-2008 than Grossman. First, because of injury but then because of PROGRESS over regression. Isn't that where we are at right now with our QBs? If passer ratings were the ONLY thing that mattered WHY does Mike Shanahan need a job? Why is Cutler only 17-21 as a starter? Why is Orton 21-12 as a starter? What assures you Orton's ratings won't spike up to the upper 80s from 79.6 with BETTER receivers like Royal and Marshall? When your team is AHEAD more than it is behind LATE in games - you're gonna see LESS prevent D's and give-me's underneathe that fatten stats and numbers. It hasn't LED to Denver winning more games than they lose. It just hasn't. We can play the most creative excuses game all you want for Cutler and Leinart but neither have been winning football games with their first round salaries. Cutler isn't going to have NEARLY the same WR talent he's had either. I have YET to see the kid turn in a winning season college or pro and at SOME point that SHOULD matter. I'm guessing it already does when a reputable Head Coach like Shanahan got fired. - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greythan Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Tom's fav new word: ginormous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 I am having a brainfart, who was he competing with? Bobby Hoying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Kyle Orton just won the job over the guy with the STRONGER arm. I question your opinion that Simms has a stronger arm than Orton. Orton is simply a much better QB than Simms. This was a no brainer from the get go. The only person claiming simms had a shot was shep. And you know how he grades his QBs, by sexual attraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Tom, the team won games. Orton was beyond horrible. shep you simply don't know what makes QBs good. Your pretty boy all-star lineup is falling hard, you'll be lucky to find one starter in the bunch: Leinart Quinn Simms Sanchez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 I pull for Simms because he got body slammed almost to death and then Chuckie kicked him while he was down. Between Kyle Orton and Phil Simms, I honestly don't give a shit. Proclaiming one "simply much better" is kind of funny given neither's ever done anything. Orton was the starter in Chicago and Simms was a third stringer mid-season acquisition in Tennessee with a history of mediocre play and a ruptured spleen. You were the only person who thought Simms had a shot. Based on your previous history of how you rate your QBs on hype and looks, and seeing as how Simms claim to fame is being a glamour boy from a name school with "pedigree", there is only explanation to why you thought Simms could beat him out. P.S. memorizing passer ratings ain't gonna help you learn to assess QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pl4tinum Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Didn't Chicago set a record for consecutive victories when Orton was JUST a rookie? I think they won 8 in a row and had a conference best record giving them homefield throughout the playoffs when Orton was MANAGING the game. THEN Chicago inserted Glassbones Grossman in their playoff matchup vrs Carolina and LOST to a team Orton beat during the regular season. - Tom F. Still, in my opinion, one of the worst coaching moves I have ever seen. Orton may not have been spectacular but the team WON for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffer X Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 I'd take DA over Grossman in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aloysius Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 He was better last year, but consider this: He had a passer rating of 107 in October, but finished at 79. In November and December, the second half of the season, he had a passer rating of about 68. He was not good at all down the stretch. Orton suffered a high ankle sprain in early November. That's said to be the reason why his play declined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted June 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 We'll certainly find out, I guess. Again... I liked Orton coming out of Purdue, then was disappointed with his conditioning, then thought he was full-on dreadful his rookie year in SO many ways. Shep, Here's the deal - you're expecting a ROOKIE QB in the WINDY city to sport 80 passer ratings before you deem it acceptable. Granted a 59 passer rating doesn't SOUND all that impressive BUT when he's NEVER putting his team too far behind like Cutler has been prone to do at times, - he's NEVER gonna get the prevent defenses yielding yardage for clock chewage. Haven't you ever wondered why some guys that throw for miles and tons of TDs are always on the LOSING end of things? Tim Couch and Jay Cutler threw up ridiculous stats when they were in the SEC. If you look at Couch's yardage and TDs vrs Florida - you'd think WOW - look what he did against a GREAT Florida team. The TROUBLE with that was Couch wasn't ready to BEGIN competing until Florida was up 28-7. Then the yardage and stats came in leaps and bounds but Florida was still scoring at a better rate so it was all junk. 35 points is NICE unless you've surrendered 63. Then it's called "not keeping up." In Chicago, the Orton MANAGED offense wasn't getting down by 21 points when he led them to a conference best 13 wins in 2006. When you're setting a record for 8 consecutive wins on your way to attaining homefield advantage in your conference - that's good but as a ROOKIE? How does that suck? Seriously, I've never seen the Browns winning 13 regular season games since I've been alive so for me to debate with you that had to be one of the worst QB jobs ever turned in by an NFL QB is outrageous. A QB's job is to LEAD his team so they are in a position to WIN the game before the final second runs off the clock. BAD QBing puts the ball in Ray Lewis' hands and T Suggs' hands so the opposing defense scores 14 points on the QB. Bad QBing means you score 6 points when the Steelers only score 10 points. Bad QBing means you score 6 points when Indy only scores 10 points against you. And the reason I say BAD QBing is DA threw an INT right before half vrs Pitt when we were in the RED zone. And another time we were in Indy's red zone and DA's careless fumble became an Indy TD on a day their offense couldn't score a TD. Those are the KINDS of winable games where the rookie Orton wasn't giving his team the DA blunder. Say what you want but when that team gave up 10 points they scored enough to WIN the game consistently. There's COUNTLESS ways to be a GOOD QB. One of the best ways is to NEVER shoot your team in the foot by being smart. ANOTHER way is to improve your passing rating EACH season so that 59 turns into 73 in the 2nd year and then 79.6 in the 3rd year. NOW, he gets to throw to Marshall and Royal which will be alot better than throwing to a bunch of guys past their primes in Chicago. Furthermore, it was NOT Chicago firing the Head Coach Shep - it was DENVER. Cutler has this passer rating that excites you. And he's a TALENTED kid BUT when the game was on the line when his team was playing Buffalo to CLINCH a playoff spot - he threw a TERRIBLE INT into unfavorable numbers late in the game. It was all on him and the INT said he wasn't clutch enough to get his team to the playoffs. I already mentioned the FIRST time he played SD. Cutler turned the ball over with the game on the line and Hochuli's blunder gave the ball back to Denver. If you're deeming QB the most important position on the field - do you want a leader with 21-12 on his resume or do you prefer 17-21 laced with countless excuses? I'm gonna take the 21-12 since football is MORE about winning and losing than it is about how pretty a guy throws a spiral. And you know what, I'll bet if you looked at wins per start in college between Orton and Cutler - Orton still comes out on top without even looking. Jeff George threw pretty spirals but if you surveyed tons of NFL execs - how many would call him a winner? Kyle Boller throws pretty spirals and so does Derek Anderson but you don't want either starting over Quinn here and neither do I. - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted June 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Tom, Tommy, Thomas, Thomatino... my man. There is no way to spin a 59 passer rating into anything but suckage. It means you are throwing the ball really, really poorly. The objective when throwing the ball is to complete passes and throw TDs, not INTs. Orton was just awful that year. Not one thing he did contributed to the team's success. They won in spite of him. He was better last year. Not great, but better. And granted, he was a rookie in 2006. But there's no possible way to spin it any way but that the team won in spite of unbelievably bad quarterbacking. If a rookie has a 76 passer rating and shows some growth throughout the year, that's a good thing. But 59? Uh-uh. LOL! I gotta get the Camp Quinn President in shape for the season. I gotta go - Orton's agent is on the line asking me for Shep's phone number. - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffer X Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Flugs is a sucker for guys with bad QB ratings. Well, except for DA that is. Vincent Young come to mind? Wasn't Flugs a big Dildofer fan too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted June 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Flugs is a sucker for guys with bad QB ratings. Well, except for DA that is. Vincent Young come to mind? Wasn't Flugs a big Dildofer fan too? HATED Trent Dilfer. Isn't he always the first guy I mention when I want to rip Opie a new ass for starting us out with Trent Dilfer and Charlie Frye on deck? Then we got stuck training Loverboy's Cinderella instead of the QB we drafted in round 1. On Vince Young. I admit, I followed the lead of Dan Fouts (who just might know a thing or 2 about playing QB in the NFL) and agreed with his thinking that Vince Young was going to be an NFL star. Pete Carroll's NFL mind threw the most talented defense and some complex schemes at VY and came away with NO solutions. The next season I would watch Vince Young earn himself AFC Offensive Rookie of the Year after replacing an ineffective Kerry Collins in 2006. This was Kerry Collins' 2006 numbers that started Tenn out 0-4: Year Team G QBRt Comp Att Pct Yds TD Int 2006 Tenn 4 42.3 42 90 46.7 549 1 6 VY would takeover a team that started 0-4 and was in a 14 game losing streak bridging 05 to 06 only to lead them to winning 8 of their last 11 games. 7 of those wins would erase 2nd half deficits. Doesn't assure me the kid lacks promise. In the SAME sense, did that season REALLY accurately paint the type of QB Kerry Collins is? Life tells me things can change when a person's mind isn't in the right place. This defintely applies to NFL QBs whether it's Vince Young or Brett Favre. Tenn COULD have easily closed the book on Kerry Collins in 2006; but fate rewarded them for not making a premature conclusion. A team without many talented WRs in 2008 needed an experienced mind the accurate gun of Collins. I'm not one that needs to follow the crowd or let popular opinion sway my takes. I say what I feel because that's who I am. NOBODY on this planet thinks Vince Young will ever start again. That's fine but I disagree with EVERY one of them. WHY? Let's just say I saw what happened the last time everyone in America told him he couldn't in the form of he wasn't good enough to be on the same field as USC. In the words of Dan Fouts he was fittingly summarized as "Invincible" when all the talking and predictions ended and the game was played. Consider this: If VY won 8 of 11 starts as a rookie and Tenn won 10 games in his second season - are we looking at a kid that loses frequently when he starts? Some people NEED a kick in the pants. I think VY definitely needed to be confronted with the reality that LIFE isn't always easy. Maybe it's only fitting he's watching a guy like Kerry Collins, who's career as a starter has been pronounced dead on several occasions. The true test of man isn't what he does when everythings is going perfect. The true test of a man is how he bounces back from troubled times. Relating this back to the Cleveland Browns, my FAVORITE QBs I grew up watching were Brian Sipe and Bernie Kosar. It wasn't their EXCELLENCE I appreciated most. It was HOW they consistently overcame serious perceived flaws in their game whether it was mechanics/delivery (BK) or arm strength (BS) or mobility ( BK) or height (BS) or whatever it was. Let's not forget, Mike Phipps was the GOLDEN BOY on draft day while Brian Sipe was a 13th round draft pick that wasn't supposed to make any NFL teams. POPULAR opinion said don't waste your time on Sipe. Did I learn something about popular opinion there? Riff, that's what I LOVE most about football. Guys like Sipe and Byner aren't the popular opinion poster boys. They still haven't come up with an assessment at Indy for this type of player. They never will. When I come up with a TAKE on a guy - sometimes it stems from what I've seen out of him when everyone else in the world was telling him "he can't." - Tom F. (It wasn't THAT long ago when football by Kerry Collins looked more like another Tom Collins Mix but he responded well to adversity when the masses predicted otherwise) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted June 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I love Thomas... but he does like ugly quarterbacks with ugly passer ratings. He has this huge Joe Kapp poster on his wall. LOL! I never got my Beware the Ides of June warning. - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncoinskinland Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Sorry I am a little late on this one, it's been somewhat busy in Bronco Nation recently. Orton winning the starting job is not all it seems. This was a headline grabber to try and take some edge off the Marshall situation. It was working right up until Brandon elevated from a hold-out to announcing he wanted a trade. I think Orton is still miles ahead of Simms, but the coach made multiple statements to the effect of "Nothing is decided in June." There is still a quarterback competition, such as it is, in Denver. I never would have guessed I would be typing that 6 months ago, this off season sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pl4tinum Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 The definition of shooting your team in the foot is throwing a lot of interceptions on not many completions... which Orton did that year. It's just that the team didn't let the hole in its foot stop them. 5 of the 13 ints were in one game... so if you exclude the one game he was what, 9-8? he managed the games for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Denver is shoring up for the #1 pick in 2010. How else can you explain the roster moves? McDaniels will lose half this team by mid season ala RAC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncoinskinland Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Denver is shoring up for the #1 pick in 2010. How else can you explain the roster moves? McDaniels will lose half this team by mid season ala RAC. I think we will still manage to squeak by the Raiders, Detroit, St Louis, and possibly one or two others. I am guessing a 3-5 win season. Pretty miserable fall since 8-5 last season, 1/2 game out from clinching the division with the #2 offense in the league. Moreno behind our offensive line could be a fairly good running attack, particularly with Hillis as lead blocker and spelling Moreno on runs. McDaniels (depite being an absolute moron drafting, and in trade negotiations) is a very good play caller, and I have few doubts about him, at least ON the field. That should equate to a mediocre short passing game. As for our defense, I think that simply having Nolan there improves us considerably on the fundamentals if nothing else. Trust me, no one is worse than Slowick. I do think there are a few positives from this off season, I just wish we didn't have to lose a pro-bowl QB, probably lose a pro-bowl WR, and possibly lose our pro-bowl center on the way to getting there. P.S. Seattle gets our pick, we gave it to them for thier 2nd this year...we got Alphonso Smith who looks good, but is an undersized CB....this one still makes my eye twitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I think we will still manage to squeak by the Raiders, Detroit, St Louis, and possibly one or two others. I am guessing a 3-5 win season. Pretty miserable fall since 8-5 last season, 1/2 game out from clinching the division with the #2 offense in the league. Moreno behind our offensive line could be a fairly good running attack, particularly with Hillis as lead blocker and spelling Moreno on runs. McDaniels (depite being an absolute moron drafting, and in trade negotiations) is a very good play caller, and I have few doubts about him, at least ON the field. That should equate to a mediocre short passing game. As for our defense, I think that simply having Nolan there improves us considerably on the fundamentals if nothing else. Trust me, no one is worse than Slowick. I do think there are a few positives from this off season, I just wish we didn't have to lose a pro-bowl QB, probably lose a pro-bowl WR, and possibly lose our pro-bowl center on the way to getting there. P.S. Seattle gets our pick, we gave it to them for thier 2nd this year...we got Alphonso Smith who looks good, but is an undersized CB....this one still makes my eye twitch. Denver's fall from grace has been steep. Makes Cleveland look good on paper so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncoinskinland Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Denver's fall from grace has been steep. Makes Cleveland look good on paper so far. Makes almost everyone look good on paper. Barring a miracle, our's will go down as one of the top 10 worst off seasons ever. I was pleasantly optomistic for you guys in the draft. I think pushing back for more picks made a lot of sense this year considering the draft class. I want to see how Mangini deals with the QB spot for you guys, but it could be a real step forward for your organization both in the near future, and long term. Congrats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncoinskinland Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I thought the Broncos getting McDaniels and Nolan was absolute genius... then the shit started to fly. Moreno's great. But losing Cutler, Marshall, and next year's almost certain Top Five pick while getting... KYLE ORTON and a corner? Cripes. Agreed, Ayers and value for Marshall needs to be added to your list of returns though. Also it could be a vastly needed culture change. mcdaniels had pretty much nothing to do with the Marshall situation, and Cutler did cry his way out of Denver. McDaniels kicked the party off by looking at Cassle, but once it went beyond that a lot of it was out of his control. Personally, I would have told both players tough shit, you are a Bronco, you can be one on the field or on the bench, but you will be wearing Orange and Blue. They would have come around by the time the season started. If we are ditching divas to instill team spirit, and it pays dividends with a better TEAM effort, I am comfortable we will get more quality star power at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Agreed, Ayers and value for Marshall needs to be added to your list of returns though. Also it could be a vastly needed culture change. mcdaniels had pretty much nothing to do with the Marshall situation, and Cutler did cry his way out of Denver. McDaniels kicked the party off by looking at Cassle, but once it went beyond that a lot of it was out of his control. Personally, I would have told both players tough shit, you are a Bronco, you can be one on the field or on the bench, but you will be wearing Orange and Blue. They would have come around by the time the season started. If we are ditching divas to instill team spirit, and it pays dividends with a better TEAM effort, I am comfortable we will get more quality star power at some point. No offense but i hope its at the same pace its taken the Browns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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