Jump to content
THE BROWNS BOARD

Ahhh, this is why Kellen hates DA so much, I totally forgot...


PlaygroundLegend

Recommended Posts

Stan I actually agree with you that he should have caught it. However, that doesn't change the fact that it was a poor decision by the QB and one that could have gotten the reciever hurt. So if Kellen catches that and Lewis knocks him out with a concussion on a hard hit. my opinion is still the same. That was the wrong throw to make.

 

Two things here... 1.) Give some credit to the defense. The twist up front was perfectly timed. The Ravens are showing zone, with a 330lb Mike. Pre-snap, the quarterback is looking at an overload right (before the OLB flips inside). You've got DT, DE/OLB, and a second linebacker (Lewis) protected stacked behind the DE.

 

Your "hot" read is going to be where the blitz is coming from. Whenever you blitz, you have to blitz "from" somewhere. You're leaving a hole. In this case, the quarterback has to prepare for the likelihood that the overload backer is coming.

 

Conventional wisdom states your hot read is going to be the seam/curl pattern to the overload side. Add to that, that DA knows that Bannen can't get there. He's too slow.

 

But the Ravens did a great job anticipating the snap count, rolling that OLB inside just in time, and getting the O-line moving backwards. Interestingly, the Browns do a pretty good job of picking it up. Shaffer gets beat to the inside having to slide down a full man and pick up the DT. But, it's not like he comes through clean.

 

DA has immediate pressure at his feet. He jumps to his hot read.

 

2.) Mis-reading the coverage. Winslow gets a good look at the pre-snap. He's in motion and can measure the coverage on him. He picks up Bannen at mike. And when Lewis hitches up on the motion (stops dead when Winslow exits the tackle box), Winslow knows 2 things. He knows he's got zone coverage, and he's looking at a possible overload blitz to the trips side.

 

As he loses sight of Lewis to reset in the trips, the Ravens change the look. They roll the DE/OLB inside square the defense, and send the mike off the twist, leaving what was the overload backer in the curl zone.

 

His key has to be the overload backer. He misses it. He's presumably watching Bannen, or running with his eyes closed. He's got to see Lewis standing in the zone. He has hitch up that pattern, go to the two yard curl, or at the very least throttle down that seam route. Anderson won't back-shoulder that throw. He doesn't have time to look for the trailer. This is a sight adjustment by Anderson. Once he goes "hot", he's just looking for 8-0, and he's going to throw the ball right between the 8 and the 0... with mustard. It's the receiver's job to find empty space. Anderson's just going to snap his head to scan the area Winslow can be, and zip!

 

Now, Winslow apparently read blitz. Otherwise, that ball would've hit him right in the back of the head. But why he ran that little banana seam route right into the coverage is beyond me. Yeah, yeah, he needs to get the first down. But, the defense has you beat. Settle down, take the catch, and beat the man for the first down. You can't scheme a first down, if you lost the scheme vs. scheme battle on that play. It becomes a players' battle at that point.

 

And can we talk about how poorly Jason Wright read that blitz? Sheesh. If DA feels Jay come underneath, he might finish his drop and find that open cross route in the empty zone. But when DA's got pressure right in front of him, and blitz pickup help is hanging around the perimeter looking to wing a DE, he's got to fire that sucker out of there. When Wright doesn't enter his field of vision, the only thing he can assume, is that there is more pressure coming behind him. RED ALERT!!! Get it out of your hands, man!

 

Altogether, it was a great defensive play. But there were a couple of breakdowns. But Anderson isn't really among them. He did his job.

 

-jj

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just thread for the first time ... and I can't believe you pussies.

 

Skippy and Jason are right ... this was not Anderson's fault.

 

It's third and three, Anderson read the blitz and hit his hot read.

 

Freeze the frame at :34. He's phucking open.

 

Open enough to catch it, secure it, take the hit and move the chains.

 

Triple coverage my ass.

 

Anderson nailed him with the throw they way it had to be to get the first down and Winslow did not secure it.

 

This is when this board frustrates me to no end ... when you jump on a guy, who is a Brown, because you want to jump on him ... when you see what you want to see because you have some cyber vendetta.

 

Winslow should have gotten the goddamn first down.

 

Zombo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Two things here... 1.) Give some credit to the defense. The twist up front was perfectly timed. The Ravens are showing zone, with a 330lb Mike. Pre-snap, the quarterback is looking at an overload right (before the OLB flips inside). You've got DT, DE/OLB, and a second linebacker (Lewis) protected stacked behind the DE.

 

Your "hot" read is going to be where the blitz is coming from. Whenever you blitz, you have to blitz "from" somewhere. You're leaving a hole. In this case, the quarterback has to prepare for the likelihood that the overload backer is coming.

 

Conventional wisdom states your hot read is going to be the seam/curl pattern to the overload side. Add to that, that DA knows that Bannen can't get there. He's too slow.

 

But the Ravens did a great job anticipating the snap count, rolling that OLB inside just in time, and getting the O-line moving backwards. Interestingly, the Browns do a pretty good job of picking it up. Shaffer gets beat to the inside having to slide down a full man and pick up the DT. But, it's not like he comes through clean.

 

DA has immediate pressure at his feet. He jumps to his hot read.

 

2.) Mis-reading the coverage. Winslow gets a good look at the pre-snap. He's in motion and can measure the coverage on him. He picks up Bannen at mike. And when Lewis hitches up on the motion (stops dead when Winslow exits the tackle box), Winslow knows 2 things. He knows he's got zone coverage, and he's looking at a possible overload blitz to the trips side.

 

As he loses sight of Lewis to reset in the trips, the Ravens change the look. They roll the DE/OLB inside square the defense, and send the mike off the twist, leaving what was the overload backer in the curl zone.

 

His key has to be the overload backer. He misses it. He's presumably watching Bannen, or running with his eyes closed. He's got to see Lewis standing in the zone. He has hitch up that pattern, go to the two yard curl, or at the very least throttle down that seam route. Anderson won't back-shoulder that throw. He doesn't have time to look for the trailer. This is a sight adjustment by Anderson. Once he goes "hot", he's just looking for 8-0, and he's going to throw the ball right between the 8 and the 0... with mustard. It's the receiver's job to find empty space. Anderson's just going to snap his head to scan the area Winslow can be, and zip!

 

Now, Winslow apparently read blitz. Otherwise, that ball would've hit him right in the back of the head. But why he ran that little banana seam route right into the coverage is beyond me. Yeah, yeah, he needs to get the first down. But, the defense has you beat. Settle down, take the catch, and beat the man for the first down. You can't scheme a first down, if you lost the scheme vs. scheme battle on that play. It becomes a players' battle at that point.

 

And can we talk about how poorly Jason Wright read that blitz? Sheesh. If DA feels Jay come underneath, he might finish his drop and find that open cross route in the empty zone. But when DA's got pressure right in front of him, and blitz pickup help is hanging around the perimeter looking to wing a DE, he's got to fire that sucker out of there. When Wright doesn't enter his field of vision, the only thing he can assume, is that there is more pressure coming behind him. RED ALERT!!! Get it out of your hands, man!

 

Altogether, it was a great defensive play. But there were a couple of breakdowns. But Anderson isn't really among them. He did his job.

 

-jj

 

Thank you for this post! So many of the posters here think this is a junior high ball game where the play is preset and the QB looks for the open guy. In this game there are reads to make during the course of the play, after the ball is snapped, and the defense or the receivers can make a QB who is making the proper call based on what's actually occurring look like an idiot at times.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest ATENEARS
Two things here... 1.) Give some credit to the defense. The twist up front was perfectly timed. The Ravens are showing zone, with a 330lb Mike. Pre-snap, the quarterback is looking at an overload right (before the OLB flips inside). You've got DT, DE/OLB, and a second linebacker (Lewis) protected stacked behind the DE.

 

Your "hot" read is going to be where the blitz is coming from. Whenever you blitz, you have to blitz "from" somewhere. You're leaving a hole. In this case, the quarterback has to prepare for the likelihood that the overload backer is coming.

 

Conventional wisdom states your hot read is going to be the seam/curl pattern to the overload side. Add to that, that DA knows that Bannen can't get there. He's too slow.

 

But the Ravens did a great job anticipating the snap count, rolling that OLB inside just in time, and getting the O-line moving backwards. Interestingly, the Browns do a pretty good job of picking it up. Shaffer gets beat to the inside having to slide down a full man and pick up the DT. But, it's not like he comes through clean.

 

DA has immediate pressure at his feet. He jumps to his hot read.

 

2.) Mis-reading the coverage. Winslow gets a good look at the pre-snap. He's in motion and can measure the coverage on him. He picks up Bannen at mike. And when Lewis hitches up on the motion (stops dead when Winslow exits the tackle box), Winslow knows 2 things. He knows he's got zone coverage, and he's looking at a possible overload blitz to the trips side.

 

As he loses sight of Lewis to reset in the trips, the Ravens change the look. They roll the DE/OLB inside square the defense, and send the mike off the twist, leaving what was the overload backer in the curl zone.

 

His key has to be the overload backer. He misses it. He's presumably watching Bannen, or running with his eyes closed. He's got to see Lewis standing in the zone. He has hitch up that pattern, go to the two yard curl, or at the very least throttle down that seam route. Anderson won't back-shoulder that throw. He doesn't have time to look for the trailer. This is a sight adjustment by Anderson. Once he goes "hot", he's just looking for 8-0, and he's going to throw the ball right between the 8 and the 0... with mustard. It's the receiver's job to find empty space. Anderson's just going to snap his head to scan the area Winslow can be, and zip!

 

Now, Winslow apparently read blitz. Otherwise, that ball would've hit him right in the back of the head. But why he ran that little banana seam route right into the coverage is beyond me. Yeah, yeah, he needs to get the first down. But, the defense has you beat. Settle down, take the catch, and beat the man for the first down. You can't scheme a first down, if you lost the scheme vs. scheme battle on that play. It becomes a players' battle at that point.

 

And can we talk about how poorly Jason Wright read that blitz? Sheesh. If DA feels Jay come underneath, he might finish his drop and find that open cross route in the empty zone. But when DA's got pressure right in front of him, and blitz pickup help is hanging around the perimeter looking to wing a DE, he's got to fire that sucker out of there. When Wright doesn't enter his field of vision, the only thing he can assume, is that there is more pressure coming behind him. RED ALERT!!! Get it out of your hands, man!

 

Altogether, it was a great defensive play. But there were a couple of breakdowns. But Anderson isn't really among them. He did his job.

 

-jj

 

 

TRANSLATION: Catch the fucking ball, take the hit, and line-up as you continue to STFU.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No Analysis, just football 101 ... catch the freaking ball, take the hit, and STFU.

 

 

That's nice, but why do you refuse to acknowledge that DA's throw was a TERRIBLE decision?

 

I'm all for DA starting if he wins the job and I have a ton of reservations about Quinn. Quinn didn't impress me, even before he broke his finger, in his short stint on the field and am not willing to just hand him the keys to the franchise and let him run with it.

 

But, please, call it how it is. Should Kellen have caught the ball? Of course. Should DA have made a better decision? Absolutely.

 

Like I said ... I don't care who is throwing the football, I expect our TE's to secure that ball away and certainly not cough it up for an interception.

 

This is probably the funniest thing I have read in this thread.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

TRANSLATION: Catch the xxxxing ball, take the hit, and line-up as you continue to STFU.

 

 

Actually, a more accurate translation might be, "Read your keys, know the coverage, or someone's going to try to turn your ribcage inside out... and that's only if they're nice enough not to snap off your head like a dandelion."

 

And in fairness to K2, I don't blame him for dropping the ball. I blame him for making the catch far more difficult than it needed to be.

 

-

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not really, the throw that KW11 caught for the TD was a similar throw as the one that the Ravens intercepted. Difference is that KW11 caught the one from BQ and dropped the one from DA. Also the difference is denvers defense versus Baltimores defense. You can see that both QBs lead the TE into coverage, but the db for Denver laid off hitting him hard in the endzone, where as Ray Lewis would never do that.

 

DA throws enough ints that are his fault, he does not need to be blamed for ones that are not his fault.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest ATENEARS
That's nice, but why do you refuse to acknowledge that DA's throw was a TERRIBLE decision?

 

I'm all for DA starting if he wins the job and I have a ton of reservations about Quinn. Quinn didn't impress me, even before he broke his finger, in his short stint on the field and am not willing to just hand him the keys to the franchise and let him run with it.

 

But, please, call it how it is. Should Kellen have caught the ball? Of course. Should DA have made a better decision? Absolutely.

 

 

Don't forget that the title of this thread is, "Ahhhh, this is why Kellen hates DA so much, I totally forgot ...."

 

So, you are saying that the reason Kellen hates DA is because he throws balls that he should catch, but sometimes coughs up for pick-6's that fall squarely against DA's stats sheet? If that is true, than why would anyone bother to dump on DA any more than that?

 

I will say that I give Quinn a ton of credit, especially with the evidence presented in this thread. Anyone who can put a ball in KWII's hands in the end zone is a fucking genius. Anyone who can get this cat to just suit up in a cold weather game, should be GM of the year.

 

I think I'm dissing KWII here ... can we show all of his TD's in the months of December?

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You people completely absolving DA for that throw need to get your head out of your ass.

 

The minute Quinn does the same thing you'll be all over him like Lumbergh on a teen boy at a NAMBLA meeting.

 

To be fair here, I don't believe I've ever strayed from being one of Anderson's harshest critics. But, you've got to look at the tape. The answer's always in the tape. In this particular case, I have a real problem finding fault with what Anderson did (a problem that I rarely suffer from). Unless Winslow was NOT the hot receiver... then conceivably, you've got a hot shot quarterback trying to make a miracle throw.

 

But, I'm an Ockham's Razor kind of guy. The two explanations that pass the logic test seem to be, 1.) Winslow is the hot receiver, Anderson read blitz, and hit him between the numbers regardless of the fact that Winslow ran himself into coverage; or 2.) Winslow was the 1 read, and when Anderson felt pressure, he locked on and rushed the throw.

 

I could buy #2 but, Winslow's running a seam route. He sort of loops the inside receivers, and hits the seam on a dead run. That's the 1 read? On 3rd and 3? Really? Chud's a little unconventional, but that's a little far-fetched. It's a simple go/seam/cross route combination. If the coverage plays straignt up you're supposed to trap the mike backer into making a decision to cover either the seam or the cross. If the backer steps up, you should have enough room to hit the seam route in front of the safety. The 1 read is either the deep route (unlikely on 3rd and 3... but possible), or the cross. You generally read from top to bottom: deep, middle, short, or vice versa. But you'd rarely start in the middle. I'd go so far as to say that the primary route may have been the iso route on the other side. You'd then progress to the nearest route moving left to right -- probably the cross route.

 

I'm going to have to go with option 1. Read blitz - Hot Read - throw to Winslow. I just don't understand how you can fault Anderson for throwing the ball where Winslow was. It's not like he led him into coverage. He threw him a laser that was on him in a heartbeat. It's like the shooting range at the fair. You hit the ducks where they are.

 

I'm just not buying that this one was Anderson's fault.

 

-jj

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just don't understand how you can fault Anderson for throwing the ball where Winslow was. It's not like he led him into coverage. He threw him a laser that was on him in a heartbeat.

I have no idea how you could conclude anything else, or why this is still being analyzed.

 

It was third and three, Anderson zipped it in there, Winslow didn't make the play, defense took advantage. Period.

 

If you're still upset the that the QB drilled the tight end between the numbers on third and three when he recognized a blitz, then take up another sport, you don't understand this one.

 

Zombo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really just started this thread to discover the reason for Winslow preferring Quinn over Anderson... This has developed into an in depth play analysis... which is cool

 

I must say I appreciate your analysis Jason, you always have amazing play breakdowns... its quite incredible and I wish you would do it more often.... However, in your analysis you did mention that Anderson got "HOT", now, not to pimp Quinn or anything, but even in the play that I posted, Quinn was able to stay calm under pressure and came pretty close to being sacked there, Also there were numerous times in pre-season, and in the broncos game where Quinn had some LB's in his face and he kept calm and stuck it out. I think Quinns composure in the pocket is a great asset, if you look at vids of him at Notre Dame there were numerous plays of him setting his feet and directing a solid throw to an open reciever.

 

Even you said DA couldve waited a tad longer to let the play develop

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really just started this thread to discover the reason for Winslow preferring Quinn over Anderson... This has developed into an in depth play analysis... which is cool

 

I must say I appreciate your analysis Jason, you always have amazing play breakdowns... its quite incredible and I wish you would do it more often.... However, in your analysis you did mention that Anderson got "HOT", now, not to pimp Quinn or anything, but even in the play that I posted, Quinn was able to stay calm under pressure and came pretty close to being sacked there, Also there were numerous times in pre-season, and in the broncos game where Quinn had some LB's in his face and he kept calm and stuck it out. I think Quinns composure in the pocket is a great asset, if you look at vids of him at Notre Dame there were numerous plays of him setting his feet and directing a solid throw to an open reciever.

 

Even you said DA couldve waited a tad longer to let the play develop

 

"Hot" is not a descriptive term. The "hot" read is the blitz read. Anderson read blitz, and went to his hot read. He actually patters his feet waiting for Winslow to get his head around, presumably so he doesn't ear-hole him. He could've waited to make the read. But there's no way for him to know that. He's got 5 on 5 up front and a man beaten. His running back is out of the picture. So, he knows (or assumes incorrectly) that his running back is man on man on the outside. That's a "hot" read. Get rid, and right now.

 

By the time he releases the ball, he's out of time. He's on a two-step stutter drop out of the shotgun. And he can't back up. Again, because he can't see his LT or RB. He has to assume they're behind him. The DT has Shaffer beaten.

 

And, while I grant you Quinn is more mobile in the pocket. You have to watch him closely. He has a tendency to let his mechanics break down when he scrambles. He'll uncork some doozies, jumping around like he's Ozzie Smith turning a DP. He also has a tendency to move backward, something you just can't do in the NFL. The upside is that Quinn seems to be keenly aware of this. So much so, that he often uses very mechanical chop steps when he scrambles. You'll see him squared up, both hands on the ball, chopping his feet like he's running tires. It's kinda funny actually. But it does speak to the power of repetition in habit breaking, and to the kid's work ethic.

 

-jj

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Once again... stellar post...

 

I did know what you meant by "Hot", What I was trying to say was that going for the hot read was still an option, he could have turned his shoulders and shifted away from the blitz extending the play. All he needed to do was buy and extra second or two in the pocket by shifting to the left since he had 3 receivers running in routes.. There was a 10 yd post in by the outside reciever, Kellen clearly running an "in" an steptoe running a quick drag. The left side of the line held up substantially well and by the time DA got to JT he would have three open receivers.. this is why having quick feet in the pocket helps... this is why a QB like Quinn can extend the play, this is why Big Gay Ben frustrates everyone

 

Dude, you need to coach my flag football team down here in Akron, every year my team has some really awesome athletes, but we lose..

:(

 

Usually what happens is we go in with a gameplan, and as soon as something goes haywire we fall apart and start doing whatever... its bad... every year, I wish I had pocket composure like Quinn, because when the blitz comes within 5 yards I get happy feet, whereas Ive seen him just step up in the pocket to buy a few secs then make the throw. With me I have the tendency to commit to th pass or the sneak too soon. Here I go rambling about my QB shortfalls... haha.. sorry guys

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What's the argument here again?

 

This wasn't a bad decision by DA, but he's had many more plays like this where he doesn't extend the play when it's there. It's one of his forte's and a profound reason why the guy can't keep drives alive yada yada yada.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OBR has a problem -- no access -- so they have to write SOMETHING. It's a total nothing article about neither quarterback being great at the spring practices that ended like two weeks ago. No new quotes, no new information... just a notion that Quinn is probably ahead today but it could be Anderson tomorrow.

 

Really weak. No mention of Quinn having a strong last day and both QBs looking better over the last week. No mention of Ratliff. Just space filler. I gave up my subscription.

 

Thanks Shep. I was about to jump on their subscription once, but the $99 seems so over the top.

 

Anyway, not surprising.

 

Is it August yet? I'm so ready for some football

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest ATENEARS

Winslow should have caught the ball.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(didn't I already say that?)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...