Freddie Close To Being Fired ?

[mjp28]

19 hours ago, bjh2130 said:

.........So clayton knew before the game (pregame) happened there was chaos dysfunction and freddie was almost fired after the game? 

"In fact, there were some rumors when I was in the Browns pregame, that he could've gotten fired after this game, b/c they're going to be sitting 2-5"

that's some wizardry shit right there.

Right.  There's nothing like the weekly or daily rumor mill for juicy stories.

And writers and reporters on deadlines just love the latest stories.

.......not that the two are in any way related.....just sayin'.     

[MDDawg]

14 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

Those are actually fair points. I guess the counter-argument is that you shouldn't put your team in that situation, but you're absolutely right. The coach SHOULDN'T have to worry about you effing up, he should be expecting you to make the plays. If you're Freddie, you have to be thinking, "Are you effing serious? You assholes can't complete ONE slant in the endzone?" 

Let's look at that Landry interception. At first I thought it was a terrible decision to make the throw, but upon review, Landry was freaking open, if only a little bit. As I just referenced in my previous post, our stars simply don't make plays when we need them. Baker's throw was absolutely TERRIBLE. It's not a stretch to say that I could have made a better toss there. Why? Because even I know that ball has to be inside, LOW, and either caught by my guy or the dirt. Literally, Baker threw the ball to the ONE place he couldn't...it's...unbelievable really. (what's also unbelievable is that Baker threw a low, inside ball to Calloway who somehow popped it up to a defender. I mean, wtf. Even when we MAKE the play, we can't MAKE the play?!) 

The weird thing is Baker never made these type of awful throws last season. Only with the Browns can a QB regress so quickly and the irony is that Freddie was hired so Baker could continue to develop under the same OC, instead he's worse. Now we're in a worst case scenario: lumped with an inexperienced coach and a QB who's regressing.

[mjp28]

11 minutes ago, MDDawg said:

The weird thing is Baker never made these type of awful throws last season. Only with the Browns can a QB regress so quickly and the irony is that Freddie was hired so Baker could continue to develop under the same OC, instead he's worse. Now we're in a worst case scenario: lumped with an inexperienced coach and a QB who's regressing.

That is a good question, what exactly changed or happened?  Young Mr Mayfield put up rookie numbers only second only to what another recent young quarterback Patrick Mahomes put up in 2018.  He led the team to 7 victories and almost more last year so it can't be that he just can't do it, he DID it.

The new receiving corp except maybe for the early injury to the key TE is better on paper.  Chubb has been outstanding as a part of the offense so no apparent reason there.    Undisclosed or hidden injuries? Coaching changes or game management? Is the OL that bad?  Or could it be off-field distractions.....hmmmmm.

I've never really bought the "sophomore jinx" excuse a player should be better from year 1 to 2.

Or will a few victories In a row somehow cure this and we'll go back to talking about winning the division or wild card spots?

I don't think that we have the answers that lies with the FO, coaches and players themselves.

GO BROWNS, just win something.....baby!

[jiggins7919]

1 hour ago, mjp28 said:

That is a good question, what exactly changed or happened?  Young Mr Mayfield put up rookie numbers only second only to what another recent young quarterback Patrick Mahomes put up in 2018.  He led the team to 7 victories and almost more last year so it can't be that he just can't do it, he DID it.

This is exactly what is nobody can answer. Like you said, he DID it, so why can't he CONTINUE to do it? What many will say is that teams now have film on Baker, and they know how to confuse him. I don't buy TOO much into this because it doesn't explain why Baker is missing the throws he nailed last year. Let's take that Landry interception for example. It was a truly awful throw and it boned us right between the cheeks. You could almost say that play lost us the game. Well, you remember last year playing the Broncos, and we were down like 3 points and needed a score? We had the ball around the 5 yard line, Baker audibles the play and drills Calloway with a perfect slant for the game winning TD. It's the same pass he missed to Landry. Why the hell does he miss that THIS year? 

Our defense also doesn't do many favors. Sure, they're playing pretty well, right? But situationally...they're not making the big play. I mean, I see defensive touchdowns every week. I see pick-6's, scoop and scores, strip sacks...but never with us. Our defense gave up a TD drive before the half vs Seattle and it was crushing. Yeah, Baker threw a pick, but COME ON. Also, as weird as the game was, the defense had the lead in the 4th quarter. If you have the lead on the 4th quarter, you WIN THE GAME. You get the damn stop. We've got to figure out how to force more turnovers. 

 

[Orion]

2 hours ago, MDDawg said:

The weird thing is Baker never made these type of awful throws last season.

Sophomore slump?

Let's see if he can learn/grow himself through it as the  season progresses.   

[bjh2130]

3 hours ago, MDDawg said:

The weird thing is Baker never made these type of awful throws last season. Only with the Browns can a QB regress so quickly and the irony is that Freddie was hired so Baker could continue to develop under the same OC, instead he's worse. Now we're in a worst case scenario: lumped with an inexperienced coach and a QB who's regressing.

Sophomore slump is a real thing in the sense that defensive coordinators get a season worth of tape on you and figure out your reads and tendencies.  Now we get to see if Baker and Freddie are the real deal and can combat the new looks defensive coordinators are giving him to confuse him. 

[mjp28]

15 minutes ago, bjh2130 said:

Sophomore slump is a real thing in the sense that defensive coordinators get a season worth of tape on you and figure out your reads and tendencies.  Now we get to see if Baker and Freddie are the real deal and can combat the new looks defensive coordinators are giving him to confuse him. 

There is "some" truth to that in most team sports like in baseball where they figured out Trevor Bauer and cut the plate on him or hitters where they figured out what pitches they can't hit.  The call up wonders slump rather quickly.

Similar too to college phenoms who get into the pros and can't live up to the hype.

Now with Mayfield maybe they're messing with his reads but it doesn't explain everything like missing wide open receivers. He's had 18 games hopefully he gets this all ironed out....and his star receivers don't drop gimmies.  

Time will tell we just have to live through it.  

[bjh2130]

1 hour ago, mjp28 said:

There is "some" truth to that in most team sports like in baseball where they figured out Trevor Bauer and cut the plate on him or hitters where they figured out what pitches they can't hit.  The call up wonders slump rather quickly.

Similar too to college phenoms who get into the pros and can't live up to the hype.

Now with Mayfield maybe they're messing with his reads but it doesn't explain everything like missing wide open receivers. He's had 18 games hopefully he gets this all ironed out....and his star receivers don't drop gimmies.  

Time will tell we just have to live through it.  

He is missing because he's pressing and his feet aren't under him. That is caused partly by being not trusting what his eyes are seeing.  For every time he has missed on a throw on "nfl open" throws there are two times where he is making the wrong read and missing wide open guys.  Usually those guys are running over the middle. 

[jiggins7919]

1 minute ago, bjh2130 said:

He is missing because he's pressing and his feet aren't under him. That is caused partly by being not trusting what his eyes are seeing.  For every time he has missed on a throw on "nfl open" throws there are two times where he is making the wrong read and missing wide open guys.  Usually those guys are running over the middle. 

The pick he threw in the end zone was a good example of his feet messed up. So frustrating. 

[The Gipper]

Freddie says:  "go ahead and try to fire me"....but you had better never go to sleep:

Tis the season!

[MDDawg]

4 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

This is exactly what is nobody can answer. Like you said, he DID it, so why can't he CONTINUE to do it? What many will say is that teams now have film on Baker, and they know how to confuse him. I don't buy TOO much into this because it doesn't explain why Baker is missing the throws he nailed last year. Let's take that Landry interception for example. It was a truly awful throw and it boned us right between the cheeks. You could almost say that play lost us the game. Well, you remember last year playing the Broncos, and we were down like 3 points and needed a score? We had the ball around the 5 yard line, Baker audibles the play and drills Calloway with a perfect slant for the game winning TD. It's the same pass he missed to Landry. Why the hell does he miss that THIS year? 

Our defense also doesn't do many favors. Sure, they're playing pretty well, right? But situationally...they're not making the big play. I mean, I see defensive touchdowns every week. I see pick-6's, scoop and scores, strip sacks...but never with us. Our defense gave up a TD drive before the half vs Seattle and it was crushing. Yeah, Baker threw a pick, but COME ON. Also, as weird as the game was, the defense had the lead in the 4th quarter. If you have the lead on the 4th quarter, you WIN THE GAME. You get the damn stop. We've got to figure out how to force more turnovers. 

 

In all fairness, Greedy and Ward were out and Russell Wilson feasted on TJ Carrie and Mitchell. You also need good corners for an effective pass rush, another reason why Freddie should've called a ball control offense.

[Tour2ma]

Yes, someday Freddie will be fired....

 

... but that day will not come before 2021.

[browns52]

On 10/19/2019 at 9:49 AM, MDDawg said:

The weird thing is Baker never made these type of awful throws last season. Only with the Browns can a QB regress so quickly and the irony is that Freddie was hired so Baker could continue to develop under the same OC, instead he's worse. Now we're in a worst case scenario: lumped with an inexperienced coach and a QB who's regressing.

its amazing....we should be building on what happened during the second half of last season.....now we look as bad as any coaching regime we have had since the comeback....very disappointing......

[browns52]

On 10/19/2019 at 4:36 PM, MDDawg said:

In all fairness, Greedy and Ward were out and Russell Wilson feasted on TJ Carrie and Mitchell. You also need good corners for an effective pass rush, another reason why Freddie should've called a ball control offense.

our d is not playing well at all....i think last i looked we were ranked 30th or something like that.....2 starting d's not playing because of injury does not make us 30th because they are out.....our front 7 except for garrett sucks big time....

[browns52]

On 10/19/2019 at 12:32 PM, jiggins7919 said:

This is exactly what is nobody can answer. Like you said, he DID it, so why can't he CONTINUE to do it? What many will say is that teams now have film on Baker, and they know how to confuse him. I don't buy TOO much into this because it doesn't explain why Baker is missing the throws he nailed last year. Let's take that Landry interception for example. It was a truly awful throw and it boned us right between the cheeks. You could almost say that play lost us the game. Well, you remember last year playing the Broncos, and we were down like 3 points and needed a score? We had the ball around the 5 yard line, Baker audibles the play and drills Calloway with a perfect slant for the game winning TD. It's the same pass he missed to Landry. Why the hell does he miss that THIS year? 

Our defense also doesn't do many favors. Sure, they're playing pretty well, right? But situationally...they're not making the big play. I mean, I see defensive touchdowns every week. I see pick-6's, scoop and scores, strip sacks...but never with us. Our defense gave up a TD drive before the half vs Seattle and it was crushing. Yeah, Baker threw a pick, but COME ON. Also, as weird as the game was, the defense had the lead in the 4th quarter. If you have the lead on the 4th quarter, you WIN THE GAME. You get the damn stop. We've got to figure out how to force more turnovers. 

 

only thing i can think of is the changing of the coaches...freddie cannot concentrate on baker like he did last yr and he was a good oc....we have a new oc...i think ol coach....freddie has too much responsibility now that he is hc....i don't know, nothing else makes sense to me....

[ATOM]

2 minutes ago, browns52 said:

our d is not playing well at all....i think last i looked we were ranked 30th or something like that.....2 starting d's not playing because of injury does not make us 30th because they are out.....our front 7 except for garrett sucks big time....

maybe wilks will get a clue and play in a 4-3 every now and then 

wasnt takitaki supposed to be good against the run ? cause i believe thats where we seem to be getting killed at

[MDDawg]

18 hours ago, browns52 said:

only thing i can think of is the changing of the coaches...freddie cannot concentrate on baker like he did last yr and he was a good oc....we have a new oc...i think ol coach....freddie has too much responsibility now that he is hc....i don't know, nothing else makes sense to me....

Tony Grossi stated it succinctly: We lost Freddie the OC when we made him the HC.

[The Gipper]

Maybe should have brought in Josh McDaniels

[Duckpins]

I question the Kitchen when it makes the same meal 2 times in a row.  I wonder if Baker will ever mature?  If the team is destroyed next game, it is only a matter of time.  All this talent with Cam Newton and a real head coach?

[calfoxwc]

I believe there are seven first year head coaches, and all of them are about 2-4 or worse.

except for Green Bay.

    It takes time and talent. Kitchens has the talent to inspire the team hugely.

They have played like it. Kitchens stays.

Gregg Williams - 33-0 loss. I'll keep Kitchens.

[browns52]

On 10/19/2019 at 3:03 PM, The Gipper said:

Freddie says:  "go ahead and try to fire me"....but you had better never go to sleep:

Tis the season!

awesome

 

[browns52]

13 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

I believe there are seven first year head coaches, and all of them are about 2-4 or worse.

except for Green Bay.

    It takes time and talent. Kitchens has the talent to inspire the team hugely.

They have played like it. Kitchens stays.

Gregg Williams - 33-0 loss. I'll keep Kitchens.

was not all williams fault....jets qb played awful...put their d in bad situations....plus it was the pats....if it was us, jets would not have been shutout and our woeful redzone offense would not have scored anywhere near 33 pts......kitchens has some talent on offense...the ol stinks so he does not have all the talent that you think he has because with all these so called skilled players, they ain't doin shit except for chubb....until we fix the ol, we have limited talent there....

[browns52]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

Maybe should have brought in Josh McDaniels

awesome point there but i don't think the pats organization will let him go.....if he gets an offer, the pats will match it and then some to keep him...i know i would...

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, browns52 said:

awesome point there but i don't think the pats organization will let him go.....if he gets an offer, the pats will match it and then some to keep him...i know i would...

He had take the Colts job a couple of years ago.  He backed out.  Don't think it had anything to do with the money.

[dawg2fan]

On 10/17/2019 at 11:11 PM, Orion said:

We fired 2 head coaches in 1 year.

After that perspective HC's ran for the woods when they heard Haslam wanted to talk to them.

Bruce Arians was available and was interested. He has lots of talent.

We were just starting to climb out from under that stigma......and now some of us want to fire a new HC after 6 games?!?

It's Freddy's fault that Callaway turns a TD reception standing at the goal line into an int out to the 50?

Agreed on that. 

It's Freddy's fault that Hilliard lets a ball go through his hands and into the hands of a defender to end the game?  Of course, people blame him for throwing it to Hilliard at all.  And that it should ALWAYS be thrown to OBJ or Landry....or else run Chubb.

- Here's what I haven't at all liked from Freddie:  The draw play on 4th & 9.  Of course, if it would've gotten 10 yards he'd have been hailed as a genius.  I didn't like it.

- Most didn't like his plan to score a TD, use his TO's to force Seattle to punt, and then come down and score again, all within 1:45 of the half.  Me, I only felt that it was a different way of thinking.  It was a plan.  I probably would've gone the old fashioned way and played 'not to lose'.....but for me, it's hard to criticize a guy who Plays To Win The Game.....so it didn't bother me much.  (you can't play the game being afraid that your QB is gonna throw an INT, or that your RB is gonna fumble)

Don't fire Freddie!    Don't trade a #1 pick for a 31 yr old LT who's been injured frequently.   Draft one.

Baker's throwing is clearly off.  We can see it in many games.  Not sure if it's him or the receivers or both.  It concerns me with all this talent, but our record is 2-4 right now.  Any quality coach would find ways to work around a ineffective oline.  He's being used by smarter coaches and unless i'm wrong, we'll continue to see it.  And I hope i am

[Orion]

25 minutes ago, dawg2fan said:

Baker's throwing is clearly off.  We can see it in many games.  Not sure if it's him or the receivers or both.  It concerns me with all this talent, but our record is 2-4 right now.  Any quality coach would find ways to work around a ineffective oline.  He's being used by smarter coaches and unless i'm wrong, we'll continue to see it.  And I hope i am

....man, I wish I had a good argument against any of that.  Except to say that the QB is a 2nd year player and the HC is a rookie HC.  

[browns52]

On 10/21/2019 at 8:04 PM, ATOM said:

maybe wilks will get a clue and play in a 4-3 every now and then 

wasnt takitaki supposed to be good against the run ? cause i believe thats where we seem to be getting killed at

yeah, something is going on...we should not look as  bad as we do....your point on running a 4/3 every now and then is a good idea in my opinion...why not, nothing else is working...

[browns52]

20 hours ago, dawg2fan said:

Baker's throwing is clearly off.  We can see it in many games.  Not sure if it's him or the receivers or both.  It concerns me with all this talent, but our record is 2-4 right now.  Any quality coach would find ways to work around a ineffective oline.  He's being used by smarter coaches and unless i'm wrong, we'll continue to see it.  And I hope i am

he's made some bad throws no doubt....but as you say, receivers have something to do with it also and probably the oc....ol line blocking issue is definetly another issue....it all adds up....i don't know if we can correct all of the issues at once...we'll see...it's do or die time....

[browns52]

20 hours ago, Orion said:

....man, I wish I had a good argument against any of that.  Except to say that the QB is a 2nd year player and the HC is a rookie HC.  

good point....only problem with that is we have players that are not going to put up with it very long....if that starts to go out of control....look out below....

[The Gipper]

18 minutes ago, browns52 said:

yeah, something is going on...we should not look as  bad as we do....your point on running a 4/3 every now and then is a good idea in my opinion...why not, nothing else is working...

I thought the 4-3 was supposed to be the base defense of the Browns, with Garret, Vernon, Richardson an Ogunjobi holding the fort in that defense?