MERGED THREADS---DA Vs. Quinn

[hammertime]

Which was always a challenge for RAC - the ability to get his team ready. Place him as HC on a team full of veterans and he'd be a good (not great) coach. But with our youth and lack of experience in big games he just wasn't the task master the team needed. I have no idea if Mangini is 'the guy' but I do know his preparation and situational teaching skills are modeled after Bill B.

 

We just never came out on a regular basis and brought our best. A few games here and there, but overall we were lethargic most of the time, just going through the plays instead of running an offense/defense.

 

 

Your post screamed two words.

 

 

RAC and lethargic.

[greg]

"just so the guy at QB can be named Brady Quinn"

 

Umm Greg, were running out of options. If its not BQ then Ratcliff. DA is not going to be a starter in c-town. Injury is the only way DA sees the field this year.

I'm not yet willing to write off a just turned 26* year-old in his 5th year with almost 50 TD's...and the 23 and 24 yr-olds in their 3rd years are purely speculation at this point. If/when those two are ready they'll play, but they won't be learning on the job as long as Anderson is around (barring injury).

 

(edit*)

[greg]

Which was always a challenge for RAC - the ability to get his team ready. Place him as HC on a team full of veterans and he'd be a good (not great) coach. But with our youth and lack of experience in big games he just wasn't the task master the team needed. I have no idea if Mangini is 'the guy' but I do know his preparation and situational teaching skills are modeled after Bill B.

 

We just never came out on a regular basis and brought our best. A few games here and there, but overall we were lethargic most of the time, just going through the plays instead of running an offense/defense.

Agreed, and RAC was coming off the bye week I believe too so he had nearly two weeks to prepare for the Giants. Regardless of preparation though those guys still did it on the field. Maybe if this new coaching staff prepares them better they will execute more often now.

 

We can only hope.

[Pumpkin Eater]

A few timely touchdown passes more will win almost every game in the NFL. What an ignorant argument.

[LCDawgFan13]

Derek Anderson Should Start For The Browns

Posted on: June 9, 2009 1:24 pm Edited on: June 9, 2009 5:39 pm Score: 186

Admit it, you’re in love. You just can’t stop thinking about him . You’ve seen his commercials, watched his press conferences, and even purchased some of his merchandise.

 

Like our King, he is one of Ohio’s native sons, with the dashing good looks and charisma to warrant coronation himself.

 

He descended from the holy grail of academic institutions, Notre Dame, and was even blessed with a recommendation from the esteemed offensive guru, Charlie Weis.

 

Admit it, you love Brady Quinn.

 

And I don’t blame you. His golden-boy image and persona represent everything good in the world of sports, and you can’t help but love him for that.

 

If left up to you, Brady Quinn would be named the starting quarterback for the Browns tomorrow, and all would be right in the dark, gloomy world of Cleveland sports. The crown prince would rightfully take his seat at the helm of this offense, and the Cleveland Browns would be a better team for it.

 

There’s only one thing standing between Quinn and his inevitable succession to the throne—a Scappoosian pocket passer named Derek Anderson.

 

Ah yes, Derek Anderson. You remember him, don’t you? He’s that clumsy 6'6" passer from Oregon State who started for the Browns in 2008. He’s the awkward quarterback with the goofy smile who seemingly wasn’t able to get the job done. With scruffy facial hair and a disheveled mop of brown hair, he’s the pauper attempting to steal the spotlight away from the publicly crowned prince Quinn.

 

Despite his outward appearance and statistical incompetence, Derek Anderson is in fact the right man for the job and should start for the Browns come opening day.

 

 

And you should love him too.

 

 

Before I get into why Anderson is the clear-cut choice for Cleveland this fall, there is a common misconception that must be cleared up immediately.

 

Read my words closely: Derek Anderson was not the reason for Cleveland’s anemic offensive production last season. Far from it. Injuries ravished the 2008 Browns like the plague—hitting virtually all facets of Cleveland’s seemingly explosive offense.

 

Preseason injuries limited wide receiver Braylon Edwards and scratched Donte' Stallworth from the season opener. Game-changing return specialist Josh Cribbs missed time with a bad ankle. A revolving door of offensive lineman created a mix-and-match group void of chemistry and lacking in talent.

 

Oh yeah, and Anderson began the season with a concussion.

 

All of these factors contributed to a Browns team that limped into their Week Four bye with a 1-3 record.

 

Once the rested Browns regained some of their key offensive personnel, they were fully able to compete with the best of the NFL. With Anderson under center, the Browns handed the 2007 World Champion New York Giants their worst loss of the season.

 

A three-point loss to Washington and a 14-point defensive meltdown against Baltimore dropped Cleveland to 3-5, costing Anderson his job and destroying what little hope the team had for rest of the season.

 

Had the circumstances been different, Derek Anderson never would have lost his job in the first place. A few timely touchdown passes (or receptions) against Pittsburgh, Washington, and Baltimore would have left Anderson, and the Browns would have been 6-2 through the halfway point of the season.

 

Now, I could sit here and pick at the schedule all day, but what’s done is done. The Browns win and lose games as a team, so it’s difficult to point toward one play as the decisive factor in a game.

 

It is difficult to make a case for what happened in the past, but it is much easier to look ahead to the future and see what needs to be done.

 

 

 

New head coach Eric Mangini must produce immediate results to ensure a successful stint in Cleveland. Browns owner Randy Lerner recently ended a turbulent three-year relationship with former GM Phil Savage and coach Romeo Crennel. The young, slightly naïve owner silently stood by with checkbook in hand as Savage spewed out more green than a Craftsman during summertime.

 

Unfortunately for Lerner, that spending never produced results, which undeniably cost both men their jobs.

 

Coming off the verge of a three-year relationship, it will be understandably hard for Randy Lerner to trust again so quickly. The easiest way for Mangini to make an impression upon a heartbroken owner is to win football games.

 

 

This is where Derek Anderson comes in.

 

Like any other position in football, real live experience is the best predictor of future success. Anderson has started 31 games compared to the four started by Brady Quinn. Anderson has thrown 43 touchdown passes in his NFL career—five fewer than the number of passes Quinn has completed to this point.

 

Although Anderson’s career completion percentage of 54.6 isn’t eye-popping, it looks much better against Quinn’s 49.5.

 

Whether you love him or hate him, Derek Anderson is a solid veteran quarterback who gives the Browns a chance to win on Sunday. Brady Quinn may be great one day—however, now is not the time to find out. Eric Mangini must show drastic improvement to win over the players and the fans, and that improvement starts with an experienced signal caller running the offense.

 

If the team remains healthy and Anderson plays within himself, the Browns will surely surprise some people.

 

They will win football games—and that’s something that everybody will love.

 

 

 

 

http://sircheeks.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/b...024142/15472029

 

 

The fact remains that DA was bad before last season. He had been bad, horrible, during the 2nd half of 2007! He should have lost his job then. To compare his stats with BQ's stats is ignorant. BQ has started 3 games and played 2 of them with a broken finger that required surgery! And still managed to put up 30 points in 2 different games. There are arguments to be made for either QB. Just don't try and tell me that DA is the clear favorite for the starting job! Nobody who ranks as the 32nd QB in the league is a lock as a starter! Especially when there is a first round draft pick waiting on the sidelines who has not yet been given a fair chance!

[Browns2405]

With your defense playing the way it did and your team only being down by 7 in the 3rd qtr. and as the starting qb your 5/18 for 40 yards?!?! Missing easy screen plays and having that many balls batted at the line? That little tiff with Vickers makes me wonder if he was losing the respect and confidence of his team and if so how long did that start?

[hammertime]

This is the first off season i've been on this board. Is there always at least one topic beat to death?

 

Cause this one sure is.

 

[Riffer X]

This is the first off season i've been on this board. Is there always at least one topic beat to death?

 

Cause this one sure is.

 

 

Can't be beat to death too much cuz I still see plenty of asinine statements about DA being a helluva lot better than I've ever seen.

[greg]

...there is a first round draft pick waiting on the sidelines who has not yet been given a fair chance!

Do you really believe that LCDawg?

Hasn't he been provided a forum through which to compete for the starting job, or do you feel he deserves more than that?

No disrespect but are you one of the "may the best man win...as long as its Quinn" types or are you ok with letting the competition decide?

 

The new staff obviously need to utilize everything they possibly have. If after preseason Anderson clearly looks to be the better QB then why develop Quinn on the field? He's not taking abuse on the sidelines and you can still continue to groom him. He's still under contract after all. I just hope they start whoever gives us the best chance to win.

 

Wins now!!

[hammertime]

Do you really believe that LCDawg?

Hasn't he been provided a forum through which to compete for the starting job, or do you feel he deserves more than that?

No disrespect but are you one of the "may the best man win...as long as its Quinn" types or are you ok with letting the competition decide?

 

The new staff obviously need to utilize everything they possibly have. If after preseason Anderson clearly looks to be the better QB then why develop Quinn on the field? He's not taking abuse on the sidelines and you can still continue to groom him. He's still under contract after all. I just hope they start whoever gives us the best chance to win.

 

Wins now!!

 

 

You sound new Greg. Welcome.

[LCDawgFan13]

Do you really believe that LCDawg?

Hasn't he been provided a forum through which to compete for the starting job, or do you feel he deserves more than that?

No disrespect but are you one of the "may the best man win...as long as its Quinn" types or are you ok with letting the competition decide?

 

The new staff obviously need to utilize everything they possibly have. If after preseason Anderson clearly looks to be the better QB then why develop Quinn on the field? He's not taking abuse on the sidelines and you can still continue to groom him. He's still under contract after all. I just hope they start whoever gives us the best chance to win.

 

Wins now!!

 

Since you are new Greg, I'll fill you in on my stance. I don't care who wins the job. I will root for whoever is our starting QB, as I have always done. I do, however, fell that Quinn is the better QB for this team in the long run. I feel that he will easily win the job and DA will be the backup or get traded. If DA wins the job, so be it. But he has to WIN it. This is the first year Quinn has had a real opportunity to win the starting job. Coming out his rookie year, we already had 2 QB's competing for the job and Charlie Frye won that competition. We know how that turned out. After the good 2007 season, DA had the job locked up regardless of how bad he played in the second half. Romeo made that clear. So, in answer to your question, until now Brady Quinn has not been given a shot. Now he is getting that shot and by the little that we are actually hearing, he is leading for the job. DA was given his fair shot...the rest of the NFL figured him out...and he has not adjusted his game. He is incredible on the deep ball, but his game stops there. Every D-coordinator in the NFL knows that. And it showed last year. Brady Quinn is an unknown. If he wins the job and comes out and plays like DA last season, I will be one of the first ones calling for his head on a platter too.

Now, I don't know your stance. Where do you stand in the BQ-DA debate? Will you back whatever QB wins the job? Or are you a DA-only guy? What's the deal?

[Farang]

I AM SO TIRED OF HEARING ABOUT THAT FLUKE OF A GIANTS GAME!

 

My take on the Giants game: The teams met in preseason that year in a prime time game and NY totally dominated and EMBARRASSED the Browns. No NFL team likes to be embarrassed like that.

 

When they met in Cleveland in the regular season, also a prime time game, it seemed like both teams remembered that preseason game all too well. Cleveland didn't want to get embarrassed in front of a national audience again and came ready to play. NY thought they could just show up and go through the motions and leave with a win.

 

That's the way I saw it, because I haven't seen Cleveland dominate a good team like that since their return to the league.

[lemosley01]

Do you really believe that LCDawg?

Hasn't he been provided a forum through which to compete for the starting job, or do you feel he deserves more than that?

 

This is the first year Brady Quinn has ever been given a shot at the starting job.

 

In his rookie season he wasn't considered.

In his sophomore season, Phil Savage declared DA the starter. There was no competition.

 

The answer to your question 'hasn't he been provided a forum...' is no, not until this year.

 

No disrespect but are you one of the "may the best man win...as long as its Quinn" types or are you ok with letting the competition decide?

 

It's interesting to note that Derek Anderson has never 'won' the starting job. It was given to him. Both times. And then he LOST the starting job. Seems like he had his chance. He even had a chance to win it back after Quinn was injured. Guess what he failed to do.

 

The new staff obviously need to utilize everything they possibly have. If after preseason Anderson clearly looks to be the better QB then why develop Quinn on the field?

 

Because you can only learn so much in practice. To get better a QB has to see GAME conditions, and the only way to do that is to play in actual games that mean something.

 

 

[hammertime]

[attachmen

t=253:beatdeadhorse5.gif]

 

Thanks now i have two dead horses.

[greg]

Thanks for the welcome Hammer and for the reply LCD.

 

I am not a DA or BQ or BR fan really, I'm just a Browns fan. I go to 3, sometimes 4 games a year. In '07 we won every game I went to, so I do have a slight little Anderson bias I guess cuz that was such a fun year. Last year I went to 4, I did all the November games including the one at Buffalo. I was stoked to find out I'd get to watch Quinn play...finally! Unfortunately, after watching I felt like if DA had played against Denver and all game against Houston we very well may have won both those games...but hey that's just the opinion of a fan in the stands. He definitely could have done as well as Quinn did against the Bills. In the Colts game they had them beat all game until that defensive play miracle Indy pulled off at the end. No picks, a decent gameplan and decent decisions against a very game opponent. It really looked like improvement to me over the Baltimore game when he initially got benched.

 

As soon as Quinn shows me he is better suited to win games than Anderson is I'll throw my BrownsBoard ballot in his box, but what's that really worth anyway? Only Daboll and Mangini know what type of offense they want to run. Who's better suited to run it should show themselves soon enough, and i want that guy.

[greg]

This is the first year Brady Quinn has ever been given a shot at the starting job.

This is BS.

In his rookie season he wasn't considered.

His own fault for coming in late.

In his sophomore season, Phil Savage declared DA the starter. There was no competition.

You said it right, Phil declared DA the starter because there was no other competition.

The answer to your question 'hasn't he been provided a forum...' is no, not until this year.

Sorry, but again I feel this is BS.

It's interesting to note that Derek Anderson has never 'won' the starting job. It was given to him. Both times. And then he LOST the starting job. Seems like he had his chance. He even had a chance to win it back after Quinn was injured. Guess what he failed to do.

 

LOL It was given to him because he "won" it. After Balt it was Quinn's to lose, and between the finger injury and gametime decision-making that switch came in the Houston game.

We can chase each other's tails all day but in the end it changes nothing. I see you're not budging in what you believe and I'm fine with the better man being the QB. I'll have to wait another month to see who they decided the best QB is and if you'll accept the decision they made.

 

Because you can only learn so much in practice. To get better a QB has to see GAME conditions, and the only way to do that is to play in actual games that mean something.

Only the best option gets to start and perfect his craft on the field. If you're not the best option it's tough cookies and practice for you!

[lemosley01]

Greg,

Quinn was never in the mix his rookie season and was never going to be. That was stated by Phil Savage (AND RAC, IIRC).

 

Derek Anderson didn't win the starting job over Charlie Frye. Charlie Frye started over Derek Anderson and was pulled after sucking...bad. Derek was given every chance to win the job and COULDN'T clearly differentiate himself from Charlie Frye.

 

Phil Savage DECLARED Anderson the starter after signing him to that big contract and before preseason/training camp in 2008 ever started. Again, Anderson never beat anyone out. He was handed the starting job (by a GM, whom, I might note, is now unemployed). All sorts of articles out there proving what I said.

 

Sorry if you feel it's BS, but it is factual based on statements BY the GM AND the head coach.

 

As far as 'developing him in practice', again, it's factual that practice reps and sitting don't help to develop a QB past a certain point. If that were the case, then career backups would eventually turn into Peyton Mannings on a regular basis, and we know that isn't true.

 

Practice != Games. We've seen how Anderson is in games. Time to see how Quinn does.

[LCDawgFan13]

Greg,

 

I have to call BS on every single one of your posts. You come on here and right away start pimping Anderson and then state that you are not a DA or BQ or BR fan. I'm not so sure you're actually who you say you are. You're sounding a lot like the resident DA groupie that we all love to humiliate on here. You're saying the same types of things. And not showing any kind of evidence to back them up. The only difference between you and him is that he actually admits that he wishes he were DA's jockstrap. You seem to be afraid to completely come out of the closet.

Hey...where is Lumnuts? I would've expected him to chime in on this one by now!

[greg]

Greg,

Quinn was never in the mix his rookie season and was never going to be. That was stated by Phil Savage (AND RAC, IIRC).

 

Derek Anderson didn't win the starting job over Charlie Frye. Charlie Frye started over Derek Anderson and was pulled after sucking...bad. Derek was given every chance to win the job and COULDN'T clearly differentiate himself from Charlie Frye.

 

Phil Savage DECLARED Anderson the starter after signing him to that big contract and before preseason/training camp in 2008 ever started. Again, Anderson never beat anyone out. He was handed the starting job (by a GM, whom, I might note, is now unemployed). All sorts of articles out there proving what I said.

 

Sorry if you feel it's BS, but it is factual based on statements BY the GM AND the head coach.

 

As far as 'developing him in practice', again, it's factual that practice reps and sitting don't help to develop a QB past a certain point. If that were the case, then career backups would eventually turn into Peyton Mannings on a regular basis, and we know that isn't true.

 

Practice != Games. We've seen how Anderson is in games. Time to see how Quinn does.

Ok.

So long as he's the best option I'm all for it.

[greg]

Greg,

 

I have to call BS on every single one of your posts. You come on here and right away start pimping Anderson and then state that you are not a DA or BQ or BR fan. I'm not so sure you're actually who you say you are. You're sounding a lot like the resident DA groupie that we all love to humiliate on here. You're saying the same types of things. And not showing any kind of evidence to back them up. The only difference between you and him is that he actually admits that he wishes he were DA's jockstrap. You seem to be afraid to completely come out of the closet.

Hey...where is Lumnuts? I would've expected him to chime in on this one by now!

BS for what, loving it when the Browns win games? I'm not sure who I might remind you of but they must like it when the Browns win too if I sound like them.

 

I haven't put down Brady or Ratliff in my posts have I? I just want the Browns to win games and so far I haven't witnessed Brady put us in a better position to do that than DA has. Is that so wrong? Or should I start lying so I can fit in better?

 

Really though, I didn't mean to "pimp Anderson", just dropped in and posted in a few threads. Sorry if I haven't been properly hazed yet. Go Browns!!

[Drunkandstoopid]

The fact remains that DA was bad before last season. He had been bad, horrible, during the 2nd half of 2007!

It's easy to find blemishes if one looks for them. BQ will probably get his turn to be scrutinized at some point.

 

DA was soooooo horrible in '07....

 

That the Browns had their first 10 win season since the early 90s...

 

That they went from averaging 4.75 wins a year over 4 straight years to that 10 win season...

 

Blah, blah, blah....

 

You should fricken enjoy the ride when you've got it rather than look for reasons to stop the momentum.

[Guest mz.]

You should fricken enjoy the ride when you've got it rather than look for reasons to stop the momentum.

 

Uhmm...we were looking forward to enjoying the ride until the DA-led offense killed that momentum.

 

[Drunkandstoopid]

I'm confused. Oh wait, typical manwagoner who puts DA's starting status ahead of the team.

As far as I can tell, Lums is about the only one here putting DA's starting status ahead of the team. I'm OK with whomever wins the competition between BQ and DA. Are you?

[chumpchange]

"With the Indians out of the pennant race, Cleveland fans have their hearts set on a daily training-camp battle between Brady "The Hometown Kid" Quinn vs. Derek Anderson, who actually had the Browns a game away from the playoffs in 2007. This could be the most bizarre battle of the summer when considering new coach Eric Mangini was attempting to trade Quinn -- there were no serious takers -- in the off-season. What compounds this competition is that Anderson, who possesses a stronger arm, has never been the greatest of practice quarterbacks. He's a so-called gamer, going 10-5 in 2007. Quinn was 1-2 last season before being injured.

 

This entire competition could backfire on Mangini and first-year offensive coordinator Brian Daboll, who was Brett Favre's quarterback coach last season with the Jets. While sharing the practice snaps, neither Anderson, the favorite, nor Quinn will get enough work to make the Browns a winner this season. Prediction: Anderson implodes and Quinn starts opening day."

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9806792...versy?GT1=39002

 

 

[PlaygroundLegend]

That just shows how Retarded the national media can be

[Legacy Fan]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9806792...versy?GT1=39002

..that Anderson, who possesses a stronger arm, has never been the greatest of practice quarterbacks.

Then again, I've never been to a Browns practice, so how the fcuk would I know?

 

Are you kidding John? Practice is when Joey BigArm shines.

[AZBrowns]

I really, really hate this discussion because nothing new is ever stated.

 

There are VERY few people on this board and among the Browns fan base that have watched Derek Anderson as long as the fans here in Pac-10 country have. Talk to ANY scout, fan, coach, writer, media member etc., and they will tell you that Anderson is the same QB today as he was when he was a sophomore at Oregon State.

 

There is a reason he is close to the top of Pac-10 record books in terms of both TD's and INT's and has earned the same reputation as pro; Has always completed passes at less than a 60% clip; Usually beats up on the bad defenses and generally struggles against the good ones.

 

Basically, he is the Jose Canseco or Adam Dunn of QB's. All or nothing. Strikeout or home run. TD pass or INT.

 

Sometimes you are what you are, and I have seen enough of Derek Anderson over the past 7 years to tell you that he's probably not going to get any better on a consistent basis.

 

However, if he wins the job.... then Go Derek Anderson! Whatever.....

 

Let me clarify... I think Quinn will be the better QB, but if it turns out to be Anderson then that's fine by me too. i just don't see that happening.

[Guest AdaM]

That article almost seemed like they accidentally switched the names or something. There were two offers including first round picks for Quinn and there were no takers for Anderson.

 

Weird.

 

 

Did you see the article he wrote about Mangini taking the rookies on the bus trip and what a fiasco it is?

 

 

 

That is the most laughable shit I've ever read.

[AZBrowns]

As far as I can tell, Lums is about the only one here putting DA's starting status ahead of the team. I'm OK with whomever wins the competition between BQ and DA. Are you?

 

 

Where is that douchebag anyway?

 

[DeadWombat]

Wait, is this the one DA vs BQ thread to rule them all? I predict at least 37 pages.

 

 

Gah... everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) about this debate has been said a million times already. Why can't we all leave this alone and wait for Mankok to make their decision come Preseason?