The republican Strategy

[osusev]

I see the Republicans are all in at this point in stopping Health care reform as a measure to slow down Democratic influence in congress and the white house.

 

Do you guys on the right really think this is a good strategy to be a complete obstructionist purely for political gain?

 

truthfully I think its a terrible strategy, I wish they would go with attacking the costs from insurance/pharm industries and efficiency problems.

 

I think they need to think about gaining small numbers of seats by taking on similar moderate health care platforms and looking to be the efficient and lower government footprint by introducing non profit options. The dems would lose traction on a populist platform which I think is important for true fiscally responsible republicans to gain traction.

 

I dont like this digging in the heels tactics because I dont want the dems to get even more influential because the spending trends for all kinds of social reconstruction projects would go thru the roof and bankrupt us.

 

Its just a thought and was curious on some of the right or lefts side opinons. I just think this is a horrible strategy for the republicans.

[calfoxwc]

Sev, that's as dumb as saying that the Dems want gov. health care, so they

 

can deny health care to all really old people, to commit senior citizen genocide.

 

The health care plan, ONCE AGAIN, is OPPSED BY about FIFTY BLUE DOG DEMOCRATS.

 

DO YOU HAVE ANY REASONABLE EXPLANATION FOR THAT ?

[Guest mz.]

BLUE DOG DEMOCRATS

 

Looks like somebody's learned a new phrase, and he ain't afraid to use it

[Flugel]

I see the Republicans are all in at this point in stopping Health care reform as a measure to slow down Democratic influence in congress and the white house.

 

I don't know my left from my right when it comes to politics. I do know this though: If PRO is the opposite of CON, then the opposite of PROgress is CONgress.

 

Health Care is in DEEP need of reform folks. The ONLY way it can be accomplished is for Americans to work TOGETHER instead of finding more seasons to remain polarized. I'm losing confidence we'll get this right before the situation becomes FUBAR.

 

- Tom F.

 

[Mr. T]

Well Well Well, I guess Obama and his Minions have woken the sleeping Blue dog democrats.

 

 

 

Maybe they see that the proposed government healthcare bill is nothing more than a giant mess.

[osusev]

Cal... come on stop being so oversimplistic here. Of course there are some moderate/conservative dems that get an awful lot of support from insurance lobbyists.

 

You know the extreme right and evidently the republican rank and file are lining up to find anything to slow down the Obama train. Thats how a two party political system works.

 

I just dont happen to think its a good long term strategy and one that definately does not help their constituents anyways. the run away escalating costs of health care and the obvious for profit denying of benefits even if you pay is insane. Its not good for business IE GM and its legacy health care costs to stay competitive and the Dems are hitting hard on efficiency versus quantity.

 

Its hard to deny our system is screwed up IE the 30+ almost 40 something WHO health care ranking conversly being number one in money spent.

 

The republicans I think have an oppurtunity here to weaken the Democratic platform by adopting a moderate/efficient true financial conservative position on escalating health care costs that also have a massive effect on Medicaid and Medicare which is directionally relational to our budget defecit and future national security.

 

Its a oppurtunity that IF the Dems do pass some sort of landmark health care reform the Republicans will be on the wrong side of history when they are already reeling from their neocon free market disaster in Iraq via Cheney/Rumsfeld to Bremer and Bush's republican deregulation party leading to our disasterous almost depression and banking freefall. This I think might be a virtual knockout punch if they stay obstructionist for nothing but political strategy.

 

Whatever happened to FISCAL long term cost saving thinking from the GOP? They can see the Medicare/medicaid bankruptcy looming.... Costs and reform have to happen now for fiscal security... goodness the GOP needs to get away from the Gun/Homophobic/free market is everything crowd and start thinking about National economic future fiscal planning. Its crazy really, the ones who talk about saving money and being conservative dont want to fix a obvious money leaking waterfall that is our health care system.... Its just so contradictory.

[Westside Steve]

Cal... come on stop being so oversimplistic here. Of course there are some moderate/conservative dems that get an awful lot of support from insurance lobbyists.

 

You know the extreme right and evidently the republican rank and file are lining up to find anything to slow down the Obama train. Thats how a two party political system works.

 

I just dont happen to think its a good long term strategy and one that definately does not help their constituents anyways. the run away escalating costs of health care and the obvious for profit denying of benefits even if you pay is insane. Its not good for business IE GM and its legacy health care costs to stay competitive and the Dems are hitting hard on efficiency versus quantity.

 

Its hard to deny our system is screwed up IE the 30+ almost 40 something WHO health care ranking conversly being number one in money spent.

 

The republicans I think have an oppurtunity here to weaken the Democratic platform by adopting a moderate/efficient true financial conservative position on escalating health care costs that also have a massive effect on Medicaid and Medicare which is directionally relational to our budget defecit and future national security.

 

Its a oppurtunity that IF the Dems do pass some sort of landmark health care reform the Republicans will be on the wrong side of history when they are already reeling from their neocon free market disaster in Iraq via Cheney/Rumsfeld to Bremer and Bush's republican deregulation party leading to our disasterous almost depression and banking freefall. This I think might be a virtual knockout punch if they stay obstructionist for nothing but political strategy.

 

Whatever happened to FISCAL long term cost saving thinking from the GOP? They can see the Medicare/medicaid bankruptcy looming.... Costs and reform have to happen now for fiscal security... goodness the GOP needs to get away from the Gun/Homophobic/free market is everything crowd and start thinking about National economic future fiscal planning. Its crazy really, the ones who talk about saving money and being conservative dont want to fix a obvious money leaking waterfall that is our health care system.... Its just so contradictory.

 

 

It's contradictory to cry about republicans Sev.

You had a choice of one of the most "moderate" repoublicans out there but opted for a monolith. You gave us your reasons.

You got your wish.

If the "checks and balances" aren't there tough.

 

We know how parties work Sev, it's not a big eye opener.

One party promises a bill of goods. attempts to ramrod it through and the other tries to stop it

 

If this thing is already turned into a healthcare debate, fine.

Of the 45 mil talking point kick off the illegals and make the ones earning over 50K buy a policy and put congress, Obama and their kids on the "public option.".

Voila.

You're down to around 10 mil.

If it's just about a blank check and a victory for Obama sorry about that.

WSS

[Legacy Fan]

The responsibility of payment, and treatment plan should be between the doctor, and the patient. Problem solved. Instead of paying $$ to an insurance company (and/or the government), put the money in a muni or savings account. For those in our population at the Mendoza line, offer some sort of tax break, etc. For those below it, most are already cared for (and not by the government) by billions of volunteer hours and dollars. So when you bitch about the billions of dollars in tax breaks large corporations receive, understand that a lot of it goes to donating for caring for these types of folks.

 

I just returned from a first hand account of what a 1000+ mouths look like when the (our) government is relied on for health(dental)care. I'll spare you the images.

[osusev]

legacy are you promoting getting rid of the insurance agencies? Which I dont have a problem with i wish the payment structure would route directly from patient to provider.... the patient information system that our healthcare relies on should be more like Taiwan which is centralized in massive oracle database systems administered at cost. Your right we dont need the middle industry which is something I completely believe in.

 

Your concept of "savings" accounts and other vehicles like that on a voluntary basis in theory like the trickle down theory makes sense. In reality in a credit driven (meaning buying things you cant afford now) culture it is not realistic and would never happen with enough of the population to be feasable. I mean really how many people out of a random sample of 100 people of the street in any normal city could buy a house or car cash?

 

The tax break thing for those who cant afford health care now is one of the dumbest concepts period. First if you dont have monthly/weekly/daily cash flow you cant depend upon a once a year tax credit to pay for unexpected immediate health care needs. Its just political drivel and nothing based on the need for a patient who needs healthcare now to get service from a health care provider who also needs access to stable patient information and payment now for delivering the correct health care.

 

when I "bitch" about the three tax cuts that top income tier corps and individuals retained from the BUsh admin in the face of increasing war and medicaid costs.... that is a retort to the silly right wing pr about "defecit".... You cant talk about income/costs without facing the facts those idiots decreased income MASSIVELY and increased cost MASSIVELY.

 

Being obstructionist for the sake of political gain versus really wanting to take on health care in a fiscally conservative way is stupid regardless of how you want to try to expand this debate.

 

Steve first of all I am discussing CONGRESSIONAL republican obstructionism for the sake of political gain not executive direction......

[Flugel]

 

Of the 45 mil talking point kick off the illegals WSS

 

 

One would FIRST have to understand that the migrant workers picking apples in the apple orchards aren't COUNTED as American citizens. The millisecond they would apply for health insurance - they'd get found and shipped back to where-ever they came from. They're not citizens Steve which is why the proud AMERICAN owners of these orchards don't report them or they lose the small population of people willing to work these jobs at the wages American citizens wouldn't accept. Even more, they do so without needing to fork out more cake for employee healthcare coverages. This impacts the profit margins right? You've always made it sound like we protected our borders so well since 2000 that we would NEVER run into a problem with illegal immigrants; so I'm surprised you of all people are pulling this concern out of the back pocket.

 

BTW, the number is 47 million uninsured and ready to multiply itself as more homeless camps are being set up around the country. The last 8 years showed YOU a ton of progress so I'm getting a kick out of watching you grasping at straws.

 

Quite simply, if healthcare is made affordable it's purchased. Not compliacted at all. In addition, if pre-existing conditions weren't turning down so many AMERICAN citizens in a profit driven healthcare system - an HUGE chunk of the 47 million would be removed. So your NEW angle is to RIP the person/people that want to TRY to change what CAN be corrected? Thatta boy!

 

Bottomline: if a Republican was bringing the SAME arguement about the necessity of Healthcare Reform - you'd find 1 million reasons why it made sense. We call this phenomenon "sense-a-million" and it's evident you've just smoked an acre of it.

- Tom F.

[Westside Steve]

BTW, the number is 47 million uninsured and ready to multiply itself as more homeless camps are being set up around the country. The last 8 years showed YOU a ton of progress so I'm getting a kick out of watching you grasping at straws.

 

Quite simply, if healthcare is made affordable it's purchased. Not compliacted at all. In addition, if pre-existing conditions weren't turning down so many AMERICAN citizens in a profit driven healthcare system - an HUGE chunk of the 47 million would be removed. So your NEW angle is to RIP the person/people that want to TRY to change what CAN be corrected? Thatta boy!

 

Bottomline: if a Republican was bringing the SAME arguement about the necessity of Healthcare Reform - you'd find 1 million reasons why it made sense. We call this phenomenon "sense-a-million" and it's evident you've just smoked an acre of it.

[]- Tom F.[]

 

 

Actually Tommy, if you can take off the blinders you know I'm for some kind of reform and always have been.

There are quite a few good reasons to do something, many good solid pro business ones.

I think those three things I listed would be good and popular amendments.

And interstate sales.

And severely cut back the trial lawyers built in bonanza.

 

But you guys want the poison pills to play to the hard left and will f*ck it up for all Americans.

 

Do it right and you lose the issue.

 

WSS

[Flugel]

But you guyswant the poison pills to play to the hard left and will f*ck it up for all Americans.

 

Do it right and you lose the issue.

 

WSS

 

 

Who's "you guys" Steve? People that care about ALL Americans instead of the more fortunate?

 

Healthcare for profit is what f*cks it up for Americans with pre-existing conditions. Do you know what those are Steve? They are RED FLAGS for many current health care insurances that are more about profit margins than COVERING people living with healthcare conditions out of their control. Covering people born with diabetes or that came down with cancer or heart disease challenges their profit margins. Do you realize how many people fit this category? Do you realize HOW MUCH they'd need to pay out of pocket to afford their healthcare and maintenence drugs? Diabetes is often hereditary so now there's trickle down to kids.

 

THAT is what needs reform. Check this out: "Since taking office, Bush has more than doubled U.S. development assistance from about $10 billion in 2000 to $23 billion in 2006." I think the number ended up being somewhere near $34 billion when it was all said and done.

 

I'm guessing if we had 34 billion $ to donate for Africa's health care problems - we can START to care about the 47 million AMERICANS that can't fight their health care problems in THIS continent. I don't mind us helping another continent as long as we realize that we have serious illnesses like HIV, Cancer, Diabetes, Heart Disease that Americans cannot aford to treat and fight without subjecting their families to bankruptcy. I'm thinking a portion of that $34 billion could have really been a significant help to our healthcare crises Bush continued to plead ignorant to.

- Tom F.

[Legacy Fan]

The tax break thing for those who cant afford health care now is one of the dumbest concepts period. First if you dont have monthly/weekly/daily cash flow you cant depend upon a once a year tax credit to pay for unexpected immediate health care needs. Its just political drivel and nothing based on the need for a patient who needs healthcare now to get service from a health care provider who also needs access to stable patient information and payment now for delivering the correct health care.

 

Hilarious.

 

I know this is a novel idea, but rather than the gov't keeping your money interest free for a year, they can not take out as much on a monthly/weekly/daily basis. There's your cash flow.

 

If the "patient" decides to spend the extra cash on cigarettes, there are things called consequences that nobody apparently has to worry about anymore.

 

Besides, most physicians are more than willing to work with you as far as payment plan options, until you fcuk that up too.

[Westside Steve]

 

 

Who's "you guys" Steve? People that care about ALL Americans instead of the more fortunate?

 

You guys are the lefties, the hard core Dems, Obammy's drooling herds who will resist any rational constraints on the plan and make it unworkable for all of us.

 

Healthcare for profit is what f*cks it up for Americans with pre-existing conditions. Do you know what those are Steve?

 

Yes you arrogant POS.

I have two and that means I can't get a reasonable policy.

So I buy and pay for an insufficient and expensive one.

Just because there are millions who choose to spend their hard earned cash on other shit that's more fun.

And while you think you're cool to cap what everybody except trial lawyers can earn.

Let's see Tommy; whose voting block is that?

 

As far as you whining about Africa hey have your boy cut the deadbeats off.

And you can kick out the illegals too.

Quit whining about Bush.

He isn't president.

Obammy is.

 

WSS

 

 

 

[calfoxwc]

 

CBO deals new blow to health plan

takeover of health care. In their rush to pass a bill, Democrats continue to ignore the stark economic reality facing our nation," said Boehner spokeswoman Antonia Ferrier. "Let's scrap the current proposal and come together in a meaningful way to reform health care in America by reducing cost, expanding access and at a price tag we can afford."

 

 

 

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0709/...l#ixzz0MQfqIRJk

[osusev]

Legacy I actually agree with you in theory and your feelings about people who act and manage irresponsibily. However knowing that in some ways I have to enable parts of the population in order to have security enough from the masses to actually operate business safely on a day to day basis.

 

Its a tradeoff, I can talk and get angry about others behavior and practices or start thinking of mechanisms to move forward taking into account those type of behaviors.

 

I think a lot of responsible right wing/independents get caught in that loop being frustrated about those things, they need to however look at the bigger overall picture of social stability and the fact that behavior will not go away anytime soon.

 

Its not that i dont theoretically agree with you or steve, or cal, t etc its just I choose to deal with my frustration by factoring them into whatever mechanism i want to move forward for more economically efficient methods now.