CIMO. Posted July 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 What part of that do you not understand! The part about not trying to get better. Our biggest weaknesses after 2008 were the thin rotation, no one at 3rd base (while Peralta was at short), the weak bullpen and lack of a closer. So we got Carl Pavano as a low risk/decent reward for the rotation, Mark DeRosa who can play 2nd, 3rd, and the outfield, Valbuena who could take over at 2nd when Cabrera and Peralta shift, Joe Smith for the bullpen and our $10M closer Kerry Wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownB499 Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 There's an old saying in baseball "You can't fire the whole team....So you fire the manager" Obviously Shapiro didn't get the memo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBrent Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 What seems to be forgotten is that the Blue Jays are getting laughed out of every proposal they make. We got a pretty good haul for Lee while the Jays might walk away with nothing and/or basically commit suicide by dealing Halladay to a team in their division. If the Jays don't trade Halladay, they aren't considered losers. They have one of the best pitchers in baseball for another year and that sells tickets. They also can trade him next year and there will be even more buyers because they only have to pay him for a half a year. In my opinion the Blue Jays are doing what we should have done, waited to be overwhelmed and if not just wait 'till next year with the ace still on your roster winning games and selling tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalBrownsFan Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Get Wedge, Shapiro and especially Dolan outta here. It's time to start over with new management. How long is Wedge gonna get a free pass, he is a horrible manager. And Shapiro is a boob, all you have to know about him is Brandon Phillips, good job evaluating talent there. Dolan is just a cheap bastard, move to New York with your brother and sell the Tribe, please, for the sake of us fans. We are always rebulding under this ownership/mangement. When players get good and their contracts are about up, we trade them for prospects and the cycle continues. I am still a Tribe fan, but this management group makes it hard to give a damn, when you know our stars are only here temporarily. We are the minor leagues for the rest of the majors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beanpot Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 If the Jays don't trade Halladay, they aren't considered losers. They have one of the best pitchers in baseball for another year and that sells tickets. They also can trade him next year and there will be even more buyers because they only have to pay him for a half a year. In my opinion the Blue Jays are doing what we should have done, waited to be overwhelmed and if not just wait 'till next year with the ace still on your roster winning games and selling tickets. This has been a weird thread, still digging through it. I agree with LeBrent here concerning the Jays and Halladay. Toronto fans were looking for other teams to follow when it looked like Roy was about to be dealt. He's their Bernie. There most certainly will be more buyers next July, primarily due to a lesser asking price. Ricciardi takes a ton of heat in ton of places, much of it deserved when it comes to personality, but I think he did the right thing here. Beanpot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beanpot Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Again, we all pretty much know how it is theoretically supposed to work. But it's translated to little success. It's gotten to the point that the few that panned out from last generation's prospects that we got for veteran trades are now veterans being traded for prospects. PERPETUAL REBUILDING. Super. How exactly did anything I typed cause you to hit the reply button on my post? Not really sure if you're just replying into the ether or if your "again" comment was meant to explain why one would stop being a fan. Again. Beanpot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIMO. Posted August 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 Here's Keith Law on what the Padres got for Jake Peavy The Padres get one major prospect and some pitching depth but, as we've seen in just about every deal this month, no impact prospects. Lefty Aaron Poreda has a plus fastball with great life but pitches from a low three-quarters slot and has yet to show a consistent slider or good feel for a changeup. Although he has the physical build to start and can hold his velocity for 90-100 pitches, he's best suited to the bullpen. The same goes for fellow left-hander Clayton Richard, who doesn't throw as hard and has a better breaking ball but whose low arm slot and lack of a changeup make him vulnerable against right-handed hitters. I could see him working as a starter in Petco Park while the team isn't good, but on a decent or contending club, he belongs pitching in relief. Right-hander Adam Russell pitched in Chicago's 'pen in 2008 but primarily is a one-pitch guy with a fastball that ranges from 92 to 97 mph. Righty Dexter Carter, 22, has a fastball that sits in the low 90s, has below-average command and is way too old and experienced for the South Atlantic League, which he has dominated this season. The main appeal for San Diego had to be the $50 million or so it'll save by dealing Peavy away. http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index...;name=law_keith So two things that says.... 1. It wasn't a seller's market. No one who "sold" is going to get instant gratification, and based on the other trades you can't say the Indians got fleeced for Cliff Lee. 2. This isn't just a Shapiro thing to value top prospects. The Phillies refused to give up Drabek. The Dodgers refused to give up Kershaw. The Red Sox refused to give up Buchholz. The Rangers refused to give up Holland. The White Sox refused to give up Beckham. No one wants to give up their elite prospects so to single out Shapiro is just ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beanpot Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 Here's Keith Law on what the Padres got for Jake Peavy http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index...;name=law_keith So two things that says.... 1. It wasn't a seller's market. No one who "sold" is going to get instant gratification, and based on the other trades you can't say the Indians got fleeced for Cliff Lee. 2. This isn't just a Shapiro thing to value top prospects. The Phillies refused to give up Drabek. The Dodgers refused to give up Kershaw. The Red Sox refused to give up Buchholz. The Rangers refused to give up Holland. The White Sox refused to give up Beckham. No one wants to give up their elite prospects so to single out Shapiro is just ridiculous. Exactly right, except for the part about not being able to say we were fleeced when it comes to Lee. Look, not allowing Cleveland fans to have inner anger and outward fits just is not Cleveland. You have to live here to understand it. And since you don't share a common area code, who in the hell are YOU to tell us that we shouldn't throw things? I live in Cleveland (used to at least...currently in Tampa, but same thing) and I take great offense to you telling US how we should react to this stuff. We're allowed to react to this deal in a way that you couldn't comprehend, man. So why don't you go and wrestle a steer or something and leave the righteous indignation to us locals! We've earned it. Beanpot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIMO. Posted August 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Exactly right, except for the part about not being able to say we were fleeced when it comes to Lee. Look, not allowing Cleveland fans to have inner anger and outward fits just is not Cleveland. You have to live here to understand it. And since you don't share a common area code, who in the hell are YOU to tell us that we shouldn't throw things? I live in Cleveland (used to at least...currently in Tampa, but same thing) and I take great offense to you telling US how we should react to this stuff. We're allowed to react to this deal in a way that you couldn't comprehend, man. So why don't you go and wrestle a steer or something and leave the righteous indignation to us locals! We've earned it. Beanpot Sarcasm duly noted, but it seems like I have to point it out....I spent the first 18 years of my life, and a lot of the next 5, in northeast Ohio. I got my degree down here and haven't mustered up the guts to move back yet. If anyone can find me a job up there where I don't have to shovel snow and can work from home 3 days a week, let me know. But I guess for whatever reason I've just been de-sensitized to it. In my life as a Tribe fan, the only thing that ever made me want to call it quits was Edgar Renteria. Players come and go...and I have to say, besides the excrutiating summer waiting for Manny's decision, Victor leaving is probably the only time I've actually been emotional over losing one. Like Kosar for Pres was saying, it all comes down to hating to lose. I didn't see us going anywhere this year, and if we were going to win next year it would be because of LaPorta and Brantley and Rondon and the like, and if (granted, a huge "if") everything goes to plan I don't think we'd miss those two as much as we think. I just don't think a singular starting pitcher can do too much for wins and losses over a course of a season, and as much as I love Vic, there's only so much he can do with his knees the way they are. It's definitely going to get pretty heated when you lose a(nother) Cy Young and the face of the franchise...but there's no hard feelings and everyone just wants to start winning again. So that's hopefully my last speech on fandom. I have steers to wrassle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beanpot Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Sarcasm duly noted I'm glad. I know Clevelanders are a territorial lot (I sure was when I lived there for 20+ years) and there's a sense of comfort in that us-against-the-world mindset. It took moving away to fully comprehend the silliness of that line of thinking. Beanpot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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