If it was one big trade

[LeBrent]

Indians Trade:

 

Mark DeRosa, 3B

Rafael Betancourt, P

Ryan Garko, 1B

Cliff Lee, P

Ben Francisco, OF

Victor Martinez, C

 

Indians Recieve:

 

Chris Perez, P

Jess Todd, P

Connor Graham, P

Scott Barnes, P

Carlos Carrasco, P

Jason Knapp, P

Justin Masterson, P

Nick Hagadone, P

Bryan Price, P

Jason Donald, IF

Lou Marson, C

 

 

You see a trend here? It was clear our young pitching was very thin and we addressed it in a big way.

 

I didn't like trading Lee, but I admit we didn't just give these players away.

 

Personally the DeRosa trade was the big winner this year.

[CIMO.]

Interesting thread. In terms of players that matter I'd say it looks more like this...

 

Indians Trade:

 

Cliff Lee, P

Victor Martinez, C

 

Indians Recieve:

 

Chris Perez, P

Jess Todd, P

Carlos Carrasco, P

Jason Knapp, P

Justin Masterson, P

Jason Donald, IF

Lou Marson, C

 

 

DeRosa and Betancourt were gone next year. Garko and Francisco were just blocking our top prospects. Impossible to tell what those mid-level pitchers at or around A ball will turn into, though it's good for depth obviously.

 

So we give up an ace and an all-star catcher who were gone after 2010 anyway.

 

We get two good, young, at or close to major league ready bullpen arms (Perez, Todd), a good, young, major league ready starter (Masterson), a close to major league ready starter (Carrasco), a major league ready catcher (Marson), a young close to major league shortstop who should look great the winter meetings (Donald), and a monster upside 18 year old starter (Knapp).

[CIMO.]

More on the players who "matter".

 

 

 

Carlos Carrasco (full name: Carlos L. Carrasco) - RHS, Age 22, Ht: 6’03”, Wt: 178

· Carlos Carrasco is a right-handed starting pitcher that has spent the majority of the 2009 season at AAA Lehigh Valley of the International League going 6-9 with a 5.18 ERA (114.2IP, 118H, 73R/68ER, 38BB, 112K) in 20 starts.

· Carrasco has electric stuff with an above average FB (90-95 mph) and the ability to throw all three secondary pitches (CB, SL, CH) for strikes.

· In 2009, Carrasco leads the International League in strikeouts (112) and was 6th in innings (114.2 IP).

· In 2009, Carrasco was named the 2nd best prospect in the Phillies organization and the 52nd best prospect in baseball by Baseball America. Carrasco was also named the top prospect in the Phillies organization in both 2007 and 2008.

· Carrasco has been a MLB Futures Game Selection three times (2006-2008).

· Carrasco is from Barquisimeto, Venezuela and originally signed with the Phillies on November 25, 2003.

 

Carlos Carrasco is an exciting young pitcher who has the ability to become a potentially dominating top of the rotation starter in the not too distant future.

 

 

Jason Donald (full name: Jason T. Donald) – SS, Age 24, Ht: 6’1”, Wt: 190

 

· Jason Donald is a shortstop who has spent the majority of the 2009 season at AAA Lehigh Valley of the International League. (2009: .236 AVG/.297 OBP/.332 SLG with 1 HR, 15 2B, and 16 RBI in 51 games)

· Donald is considered to be a player with exceptional work-ethic and advanced baseball instincts.

· On June 15, 2009 Donald underwent surgery to repair a torn meniscus in his left knee.

· Donald was ranked as the No. 4 prospect in the Phillies’ system and the 69th best prospect in baseball by Baseball America in 2009.

· Donald was the starting SS for Team USA in the 2008 All-Star Futures Game on 7/13/08 at Yankee Stadium and played for Team USA in the 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing where he led the team in batting average and

posted a line of .381 in 21 ABs with a double, homerun, and five RBI.

· Named to the 2008 Arizona Fall League’s Top Prospect Team, as selected by league managers, coaches and administrators. Was the winner of the 2008 AFL Dernell Stenson Sportsmanship Award, presented annually to the AFL player “who best exemplifies unselfishness, hard work, and leadership”

· Donald was originally selected by the Philadelphia Phillies in the 3rd round (97th overall) of the 2006 amateur draft out of the University of Arizona.

 

Jason Donald is a shortstop with an exceptional work ethic and advanced baseball instincts. He has been an all-star and top prospect at every level of minor league baseball and we feel that he has the potential to become a valuable contributor to a major league infield in the future.

 

 

Jason Knapp (full name Jason C. Knapp) - RHS, Age 18, Ht: 6’5”, Wt: 225

 

· Jason Knapp is a right-handed starting pitcher that has spent the 2009 season with the Lakewood BlueClaws of the Class A South Atlantic League. In 17 starts in 2009, Knapp has held opposing hitters to a .209 average, striking out 111 while only walking 39 in 85.1 IP.

· Knapp currently ranks 5th in the South Atlantic League with 111 strikeouts and was named the South Atlantic League Pitcher of the Week for April 20-26, 2009

· Knapp can run his heavy FB up to 97 MPH. Knapp also features a future plus breaking-ball and feel for a future major league average change-up.

· Following the 2008 season, Knapp was named the 10th best prospect in the Philadelphia farm system by Baseball America.

· Knapp was selected out of North Hunterdon High School in Annandale, NJ in the 2nd round of the 2008 draft (71st overall).

 

While young, Knapp is an extremely physical pitcher that has a very high ceiling. His FB already reaches the mid 90’s and there is a good chance that in the future he could top out in the high 90’s as he continues to refine his delivery and skills. He has the upside to be a top of the rotation starter in the future.

 

 

Lou Marson (full name: Louis Glenn Marson) - C, Age 23, Ht: 6’01”, Wt: 195

 

· Lou Marson is a right-handed hitting catcher who has spent the majority of 2009 in AAA Lehigh Valley where he has hit .294 with .382 OBP and .370 SLG (.751 OPS) in 211 plate appearances.

· Ranked by Baseball America as the No. 3 Phillies prospect and the 66th best prospect in baseball prior to 2009.

· In 2008, led Phillies organization and all three Double-A leagues with a .433 on-base percentage (.314 AVG/.416 SLG on the season with 18 2B, 5 HR, and 68BB)

· Was called up to the major league roster on September 1, 2008. Made his major league debut in Philadelphia’s final game of 2008 (September 28th), where he hit a home run and threw out a runner attempting to steal. In 24 Major league career plate appearances, Marson has hit .285 with .350 OBP and .476 SLG (.851 OPS) with 1 homerun.

· Was a member of the U.S. roster for the 2008 Future’s Game and won a bronze medal as a member of the 2008 US Olympic baseball team. Was a 2008 Eastern League Mid- and Post-Season All-Star selection

· An athletic defender with a major league average arm and quick release. Shows a line-drive approach with plate discipline and gap power. He has a reputation for excelling in game management and handling a pitching staff

· Marson was originally selected by the Philadelphia Phillies in the 4th round (122nd overall) out of Coronado (AZ) HS in 2004.

 

Marson is a young, athletically gifted player who has shown the ability to succeed offensively while playing a premium defensive position. His sophisticated approach at the plate, on-base skills, and defensive profile fit well with the priorities of our club, and we see him as an advanced player for his age and experience level.

 

 

 

Justin Masterson (full name: Justin Daniel Masterson) – RHP, Age 24, Ht: 6’6”, Wt: 250

 

· Justin Masterson is a RHP who has spent the 2009 season as an integral member of the Boston Red Sox pitching staff as both a starter and reliever. (‘09 Stats: 3-3, 4.50ERA, 31 G, 6GS, 72IP, 67SO, 25BB, 1.6 GO/AO)

· Masterson is the first Jamaican-born pitcher in major league history and just the 4th player overall, joining Chili Davis (1981-99), Devon White (1985-2001) and Rolando Roomes (1988-90). (Source: MLB.com player profile)

· Masterson is described by scouts as a strong, durable pitcher with a low three-quarter arm slot and plus velocity. He also features a solid slider.

· Masterson set a Red Sox rookie record with 9 appearances in the 2008 playoffs, going 1-0 with a 1.86 ERA (2 ER/9.2 IP)...Only 4 major league rookies have ever logged more post-season outings in a season. (Source: MLB.com player profile)

· He was rated the 64th prospect in all of Major League Baseball in 2008 and the 4th best prospect in the Boston Red Sox system according to Baseball America.

· Masterson earned Red Sox ML Pitcher of the Month honors for June 2007 and July 2007, along with Eastern League Pitcher of the Week twice in (April 7-13 and July 9-15, 2007)

· Masterson was named to the Baseball America short season all-star team in his first professional season.

· Masterson was selected by Boston Red Sox in 2nd Round (71st overall) of 2006 amateur entry draft. He was ranked as the No. 24 overall draft-eligible prospect in 2006, according to Baseball America the summer after appearing in the 2005 Cape Cod Baseball League All-Star Game.

 

 

 

Chris Perez (full name: Christopher Ralph Perez) - RHR, Age 24, Ht: 6’4”, Wt: 230:

 

· Perez is a right-handed reliever who has spent 2009 with the Memphis Caridinals, St. Louis Cardinals and the Indians. Prior to the trade on June 27, he owned a 1-1 record with one save with the Cardinals (23.2IP, 17H, 12R/11ER, 20K).

· Was named by Baseball America as the 3rd best prospect in the Cardinals organization twice (2007, 2009), and was named their 2nd best prospect in 2008.

· Made his Major League debut with the Cardinals in May of 2008 after only one full season of professional baseball. Was the 7th player selected in the 2006 draft to make it to the Major Leagues and the first for St. Louis.

· Saved 7 games for St. Louis in 2008, striking out over nine batters per nine innings.

· Features a well-above-average fastball that has reached up to 98 mph. Best secondary pitch is a hard, wipe-out Slider with late cut and depth.

· Has international experience, winning the Gold medal in the 2007 World Cup with Team USA and pitching for the USA National team in the summer of 2005.

· Perez was drafted in the 2006 amateur draft as a 1st round supplemental pick out of the University of Miami, Florida (42nd overall).

 

 

 

Jess Todd (full name: Jesse R. Todd) - RHR, Age 23, Ht: 5’11”, Wt: 210

 

· Jess Todd is a right-handed relief pitcher who has spent the majority of the 2009 season at AAA Memphis of the Pacific Coast League going 4-2 with 24 saves and a 2.20 ERA (49.0IP, 39H, 13R/12ER, 13BB, 59K, .214 avg) in 41 appearances out of the bullpen.

· Todd commands his 88-90 FB (2.06 BB/9 in 2009) and relies on a plus SL and cutter.

· Todd has 24 saves which leads the Pacific Coast League and ranks tied for 4th in minor league baseball.

· Todd made his major league debut on June 5th vs. Colorado (1.2IP, 3H, 2R/ER, 2BB, 2K) before being optioned back to Memphis on June 6th

· Following the 2008 season, Todd was named the 4th best prospect in the Cardinals organization and the 7th best prospect in the Texas League by Baseball America.

· In 2008, Todd was named to both the Florida State League and Texas League All-Star teams while also pitching for the USA squad at the MLB Future’s Game

· Todd was originally selected by the Cardinals in the 2nd round (82nd overall) of the 2007 MLB June Draft out of the University of Arkansas.

 

Jess Todd is a pitcher who has been tremendously successful at every level of minor league baseball and has already reached the major leagues in only his second full season of professional baseball.

[BrownB499]

[quote name='LeBrent' date='Jul 31 2009, 05:41 PM' post='882

 

 

You see a trend here? It was clear our young pitching was very thin and we addressed it in a big way.

 

 

 

The $64k Question is why is or minor league program so "very thin" in pitching

 

Haven't we traded some pretty good ballplayers the last couple of years?

 

Casey Blake

CC Sabathia

Paul Byrd

Franklin Gutierez

Bob Wickman

Where's our return on investment from these trades?

 

I'm sorry fellas but I don't have much faith in our scouting departments ability to judge young

pitchers.

[CIMO.]

The $64k Question is why is or minor league program so "very thin" in pitching

 

Haven't we traded some pretty good ballplayers the last couple of years?

 

Casey Blake

CC Sabathia

Paul Byrd

Franklin Gutierez

Bob Wickman

Where's our return on investment from these trades?

 

I'm sorry fellas but I don't have much faith in our scouting departments ability to judge young

pitchers.

 

 

You might want to do 15 seconds of research.

[BrownB499]

You might want to do 15 seconds of research.

 

 

Zach Jackson & Joe Smith ?

 

Yea I get Santana,Le Porta

I also remember Marte,Escobar that didn't work out so well

 

I'm just wondering how we ended up so pitching thin down on the farm?

I know we got a couple of young arms on their way,and Lewis and Reyes are hurt but aren't we in kinda putt'n all our

eggs in 1 basket?

I understand trading these guys and getting all you can but I wouldn't mind see'n us pick another basher somewhere along the line.there's no guarantee any of these guys will make it big,Leporta Santana,Chisenhall,Brantley.

I know you can never have enough pitching but this looks like panic with all these pitchers

And me I 'll still take great pitching and THREE 3 run homers!

[CIMO.]

I'm just wondering how we ended up so pitching thin down on the farm?

 

Adam Miller's fingers are falling off, Huff, Laffey, Sowers, Perez, Sipp, Jensen and Scott Lewis made it to Cleveland, Betancourt got old, Borowski got useless, Wood got overpaid, and a few guys washed out.

[BrownB499]

Any chance we could get a light hitting single A catcher for Kerry Wood?

[CIMO.]

Just as a quick recap....

 

 

Indians Trade:

 

Cliff Lee, P - gone after 2010

Victor Martinez, C - gone after 2010

 

Indians Recieve:

 

Chris Perez, P - top 5 STL prospect

Jess Todd, P - top 5 STL prospect

Carlos Carrasco, P - top 5 PHI prospect

Jason Knapp, P - #10 PHI prospect

Justin Masterson, P - top 5 BOS prospect in '08 (uneligible this year)

Jason Donald, IF - top 5 PHI prospect

Lou Marson, C - top 5 PHI prospect

Nick Hagadone, P - top 5 BOS prospect

 

 

So we give up two meaningful players (who were gone after next year anyway), and come away with 7 players in their organizations' top 5s, most of whom will be in the big leagues next year...and that doesn't even include Knapp who could be the best player we got.

 

I know I'm in the minority, even if some are starting to come around, but someone will have to explain to me how we got fleeced.

 

 

 

Any chance we could get a light hitting single A catcher for Kerry Wood?

 

Maybe if we agree to pay the rest of his salary.

[CIMO.]

And here's Jayson Stark, who lists us as one of the 5 winners in the trade market, along with Philly, Boston, St. Louis and LA (Dodgers)

 

They're not going to feel like winners in Cleveland right now. We know that. Trading away a rent-a-player like DeRosa was one thing. Trading two pillars like Martinez and Lee is another. So as one AL front-office man put it, "I'm sure there are no smiles in Cleveland right now. You think about where they were in 2007, up 3-1 in the ALCS and one win away from the World Series. And next thing you know, they're the big sellers two years in a row in July. That can't feel real good."

 

But of the teams that spent July selling off, nobody reeled in the quality haul of prospects the Indians did. They collected six solid young players who are either big-league ready now or will be shortly (Chris Perez, Justin Masterson, Carlos Carrasco, Lou Marson, Jason Donald and Jess Todd). And they built both the Lee and Martinez deals around younger, 6-foot-5 flame-ballers who both project as No. 1 starters -- Jason Knapp and Nick Hagadone, respectively.

 

So for what they were trying to accomplish, they did well. But "here's the tough part," said the same front-office man. "This is different than trading CC. At least they could do that and know the next year they still had Cliff Lee. But these trades mean they're not going to win for a couple of years. I'm sure they're excited about a lot of the guys they got back. But 81 times a year, you've got to sit there and watch it. And that's tough. I think they're going to end up being really good in about 2012. But in the meantime, it's going to be hard."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/stor...&id=4370512