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Mangini Under Pressure


Frenchie

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Although I think that Mangini puts a lot of pressure on himself to win right away, I don't think he is under pressure from Lerner to make that much of an improvement in his first year with the Browns. Rebuilding can be quick in the NFL but, unlike what I've read from many of you on this board, I don't think that the coach feels it is "a make it or else" year. Nor should he. Realistically, a coach has a minimum 3 to 4 year opportunity.

 

I'll be happy just seeing the team execute more consistently on offense and less predictable on defence. I would also like to see a few of the pieces comming together - like the offensive line and the QB situation. I'm sure Mangini would like a couple more drafts to stock the team with talent. What are your thoughts?

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Although I think that Mangini puts a lot of pressure on himself to win right away, I don't think he is under pressure from Lerner to make that much of an improvement in his first year with the Browns. Rebuilding can be quick in the NFL but, unlike what I've read from many of you on this board, I don't think that the coach feels it is "a make it or else" year. Nor should he. Realistically, a coach has a minimum 3 to 4 year opportunity.

 

I'll be happy just seeing the team execute more consistently on offense and less predictable on defence. I would also like to see a few of the pieces comming together - like the offensive line and the QB situation. I'm sure Mangini would like a couple more drafts to stock the team with talent. What are your thoughts?

 

Mangini has walked into an ideal situation. There are no expectations for the Browns this year, none. He can go 3-13 (maybe (0-16) and still keep his job, as long as the team plays hard.

 

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Guest TheJokersWILD

I am sorry but if you only give a coach one year to turn a franchise around, you should be SHOT!!! With armor piercing bullets more than twice. How can ANYONE turn a franchise around in ONE year??? Two years at the absolute minimum!

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Look at all the positives so far. Just a few in no particular order:

--EXPERIENCED NFL Coordinators

--A cohesive management team that WANTS to be in Cleveland

--NO holdouts on August 1st

--More structure & discipline

--Seeking & getting more intelligent players

--Added depth throughout the team--we literally had NO viable back ups last year

 

Regardless of this year's won-loss record, I feel we have already taken "giant steps" toward lasting success by building a solid foundation. I am pleased with the draft, and I also look for more disciplined, aggressive play.

We'll see, but it's nice to see the progress already made BEFORE the pads go on. We may surprise some folks this year.

GOOD things coming!

Mike

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Look at all the positives so far. Just a few in no particular order:

--EXPERIENCED NFL Coordinators

The only thing I disagree with is the coordinators. For one I think Rob Ryan is weak at stopping the run, and his teams are kind of all over the place, hot or cold, and never very good for long. And Brian Daboll is green as green can be - never held the office of coordinator before Mangini picked him.

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I fully expect a 5 or 6 win season and would be happy with anything better. If they squeak out a win against the Steelers and Ravens and look generally competent and improving I'll be happy. If they can avoid the treacherous injuries and meltdowns that so often plague a season, they will be fine.

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The pressure mangini will have on his back to win will be of his own making lerner is under no illusions of the browns doing much this year a 7-9 or better season will be a big plus but not a requirement for mangini he is in the perfect situation...luckily mangini is competitive so we should see marked improvements over last year its to early to tell but a 10-6 season isnt out of the question on paper if the team jels fast enough....;)

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Although I think that Mangini puts a lot of pressure on himself to win right away, I don't think he is under pressure from Lerner to make that much of an improvement in his first year with the Browns. Rebuilding can be quick in the NFL but, unlike what I've read from many of you on this board, I don't think that the coach feels it is "a make it or else" year. Nor should he. Realistically, a coach has a minimum 3 to 4 year opportunity.

 

I'll be happy just seeing the team execute more consistently on offense and less predictable on defence. I would also like to see a few of the pieces comming together - like the offensive line and the QB situation. I'm sure Mangini would like a couple more drafts to stock the team with talent. What are your thoughts?

 

While I hear EVERYTHING you are saying - the reality is we have only made the playoffs once in 15 years. Aside from that this is an era of free agency/salary cap where there's constantly worst to firsts and vice versa. There are some talented players on this team such as:

Joe Thomas

Eric Steinbach

Alex Mack

Josh Cribbs

Brady Quinn (1st round pick right?)

Braylon Edwards

Shaun Rogers

Eric Wright

 

Many would argue D'Qwell Jackson needs to be on this list so if you need him there - include him. Mangini sounds impressed about him. There's also some experienced vets that will play with better 1st step instinct on the defensive side of the ball. It'll be interesting to see what Ryan gets out of young players like Hall, Veikune and Wimbley.

 

On offense, we have some intriguing young players like the 2 rookie WRs, James Davis, Jerome Harrison, Martin Rucker, etc. There's also a blend of experienced vets competing to show they still have what it takes (Womack, Foster, St Clair, Hadnot, Vickers, Lewis, Royal, Heiden). Lewis has some wear and tear but is he even 30 years old yet? I'd like to think that changing the QB gives us the type of spark it gave Atlanta.

 

IMO, Cribbs could be the biggest wildcard on this team. If we ever decided to commit a steady offensive role to him - I think he'd show us everything he did with his STs role. I could see rationale for RB or WR because the young lad responds well to open fields. We've seen it.

 

I have to cringe every time I see a Browns' fan trying to prepare me that I need to accept losing because we've hired a new Head Coach. This is a business where the entertainment value is judged exclusively on the ability to win consistently. There's no such thing as moral victories because when the post season starts - I have to reflect back to the mid-late 80s to get the warm fuzzies working. That SUCKS!

- Tom F. (I think we can, I think we can, I think we can)

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I think every coach is under pressure to win, just some more than others. We shouldn't have huge expectations, but we also know that teams can be turned around in one year and this team does have some talent.

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Mangini has walked into an ideal situation. There are no expectations for the Browns this year, none. He can go 3-13 (maybe (0-16) and still keep his job, as long as the team plays hard.

 

 

Not only that, he inherits a team that underachieved last year which may give him 3-4 wins built in to the deal.

 

I honestly don't think it is out of the question we win 10 games.

 

Passive game plans, lack luster motivation, injuries, and 3rd and 4th string qbs cost us much last year.

 

The key is how well the band-aide right O line plays. That can screw it up pretty quick.

 

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I don't believe that Mangini is going to have any problems winning this year. We have most of the same talent that we did when we almost made the playoffs two years ago and I think we can all agree that if we had had a strong management team last year, this team would not have spiralled down into such a quagmire. We have now rectified that issue so I fully anticipate us having the type of season we should have had last year.
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I am really surprised by the relative concensus on this topic so far. I almost feel the need to go into historical topic posts to quote a number of people (including the media) that have stated "Mangini must win right away". Whoever really believes that ... we want to hear from you!

 

Having said that, I agree with Canton Mike: There are already many obvious positives to the Mangini era, and we haven't even started our first day at camp. As to the comments on our coordinators, I agree with VegasDogg that there is no reason to feel confident, but we can hope that it works out this time.

 

Flugel: Your list of talent players is way to long. Most of those players are unproven or have not met our expectations. And I am still waiting to see a real "leader" emerge on either side of the ball.

 

Gips: 7-9 would be a real accomplishment. I don't want to sound negative so let me word it this way: 7-9 would exceed my expectations of this team this year. If it (or more happens), I will really start to feel good about the future of this franchise.

 

Some people have expressed concern about the right side of the line. While I agree, I must say that the left side did not show much "push" for the running game last year. I am not a big fan of Eric Steinbach at LG and agree with Mangini that he is too light for our running game. As for Joe Thomas, I agree he is a Probowl player at a key position ... but I'm on record as saying that I would have taken and been happier with Adrian Peterson. If I remember correctly, Steinbach could play LT and we could have shifted him over, and replaced LG with a running style player (Lord knows we have enough of them).

 

 

 

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Flugel: Your list of talent players is way to long. Most of those players are unproven or have not met our expectations. And I am still waiting to see a real "leader" emerge on either side of the ball.

 

Thanks for the reply Frenchie! Let me clarify my angle a little better. The 2007 season had Steinbach acting as the leader of the left side of our oline. It sure made a difference for Joe Thomas' early progress/productivity; especially if you remember the turbulence Joe experienced in the preseason outings Steinbach didn't suit up for. Not only that, but the season before Thomas & Steinbach - our left side was Joe Andruzzi & Kevin Shaffer. You didn't notice the enormous boost in talent? Let's just say I found evidence exactly where we were good enough to win 10 games. Can you really do that with a whole bunch of sucky players? Anything is possible I guess.

 

About my list - you'll see how little I had to do with any of it and more to do with NATIONAL recognition for each guy.

 

Steinbach - Made Pro Bowls (after being named Big 10 Offensive Linemen of the Year)

Thomas - 2 Pro Bowls (1st olinemen selected in 07 draft)

Edwards - Pro Bowl (what other WR in team history scored 16 TDs in 1 season?)

Cribbs - 2 Pro Bowls

Mack - 1st Center drafted because he was #1 rated (hard to find better promise than that)

Quinn - 1st rd talent (avged 30 points in 1st 2 starts for a team that couldn't score an offensive TD in the final 6 weeks.)

Rogers - 3 Pro Bowls

 

I guess you can argue Eric Wright at this point and WHICH Braylon Edwards will show up for 2009.

- Tom F.

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To answer your question, Mangini isn't under pressure from the owners to win right now. He is a new coach rebuilding a franchise. Only Al Davis would expect an immediate turnaround.

 

Now, that doesn't mean losing should be accepted. Progress must be seen. The team still needs to be more competitive, better coached and show more discipline.

 

 

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IMO... If the 1-15 dolphins can make the playoffs , 3-13 falcons can make playoffs...I sure as hell think the Browns can....we got to win in our division, end of story. This is NFL ...of course Mangini has pressure to win....no doubt at all!

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I myself don't think the talent level in the NFL is drastically different from team to team, except for maybe a few. I think of managing a team like playing a game of tetris to a certain extent. You have all these different pieces that can fit together perfectly or horribly depending on how you use them. I think Mangini could make the playoffs next year if he and his players understand how the pieces are going to fit together and what every individual role will be. Dick over in Steelerland has mastered how to do this. He seems to know how to maximize talent better than 95% of the coaches out there. Whenever they let a player go noone seems to get the same production out of them that they did and I'm even talking about the players that weren't high mileage guys. Anyways Mangini turned the Jets around in one year, so you know it can happen here because the Jets then were in no better shape than the Browns are now. I'm not saying its going to happen, but its certainly possible that this team is real competitve next year.

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Guys, the "give him 3-4 seasons" thing is total BS.

I'm starting to see things the way Rich and Ghoolie did.

There is no question here, we HAVE talent on this team, we were 10-6 2 seasons back.

Don't kid yourselves, the tools are there, we need the COACHES to step up and do their job for a change.

Every year we all get hyped up at the talent coming in and we see piss poor coaching flush it all away.

Boy has his horses, better win the damn race this time.

I don't want to see EM get anymore than 2 seasons if he can't get a winner together.

 

Atlanta and Miami

They can do it, we should be able to as well.

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Guys, the "give him 3-4 seasons" thing is total BS.

I'm starting to see things the way Rich and Ghoolie did.

They can do it, we should be able to as well.

 

Agreed Tobalaz. It's the fre agency/salary cap era where worst to first is happening virtually every season in at least 1 division.

 

While I wasn't impressed with the avg winning percentager of teams we beat in 2007, I'm not gonna complain about 10 Ws. That said, we weren't quite there yet because we needed to beat AFC teams that were able to win more than 8 games as well as beating the beatable teams like Cincy & Oakland on the road.

 

I think the 3 biggest problem solves we accomplished heading into 2009 are:

1) RAC bye bye - Mangini welcome

2) Ryan at DC

3) Change in starting QB (okay, shhh! I'll pretend that isn't official yet)

 

I seriously think Thomas, Steinbach, Mack, Rogers, Edwards (not Hide - Jekyll), and Cribbs. The WR additions should place considerable promise into this year between Patton, Furrey, Robiskie, MoMass. Defensively, the Jets vets will offer boost and experience with the D Manigini wants here.

 

If I'm looking at anything between 4 wins and 7 wins - it's not good enough. This isn't the 1970s where it takes 4-5 years just to purge crap off a roster. Furthermore, I didn't see Harbaugh & Smith necesitating 1st year excuses for franchises coming off 5 wins or less the year before.

- Tom F.

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Remember......we were a blocked field goal against the Raiders from being 11-5 that year. :angry:

 

Good teams win the close ones.

 

Eggsactly! Good point. So my question is - if we were 1 play away from 11-5 do I need to say it's okay for Mangini to go anywhere from 4-12 to 8-8 this year? Hell no! They don't measure moral victories in this league so the teams with the most moral victories are the easiest ones to forget. I think we have the talent assembled - we just need the RIGHT brass understanding what gives us our best chances to win on Sundays.

 

Again, not to beat a dead horse - but Atlanta went from chaos to playoffs by changing their LT, QB, RB, Head Coach and GM in just 1 offseason. The results were tough to argue with even though Mike Smith had all the latitude you could ever want in terms of expectations. Baltimore also went from 5 wins to AFC Championship appearance by replacing the ineffective Boller with a better game manager Joey Flockofseagulls and a level headed Coach that's a little deeper than F-bombs when his team needs him. Sounds like a lost episode of Friends for God sakes but it's what happened at the Birdcage.

 

In the 70s, we rarely witnessed worst to firsts due to how long it takes to turn over a roster. I think we often forget the era change when we say it's okay to lose more games than we will win. In this era, we've also seen SB teams not qualifying for playoffs the next year. The FA/salary cap thing makes this possible.

 

As a fanbase, we need to SHOW Randy Lerner that playoffs are necessary more than once a decade. I shouldn't have to feel guilty about wanting MORE than this - should I? Don't forget, that stadium is pretty much soldout every Sunday. And do you know HOW MANY jerseys I've purchased that are outdated within 1-2 years of purchase? Randy makes cake off us when we purchase the NFL ticket, jerseys or game tickets so we need to stop reminding him that's okay to miss the playoffs habitually.

- Tom F.

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