Thoughts on the scrimmage game

[DeadWombat]

Hey everyone.... I just got back from the game myself... Anyone else go? I thought I'd make this thread quick before I write down my thoughts.

 

 

First off, I know a bunch of you want to hear this so I will say it now: Quinn looked a little better than DA, but neither were spectacular. DA had a couple passes batted down as well as an interception in the endzone by Jackson (who came out of nowhere, I should add).

 

 

I'm gonna gather my thoughts and will add to it periodically.

 

EDIT 1:

 

 

WR: I think we have a great WR core. Rookie Lance Legget has some great catches by Quinn, including a 51 yarder who he caught over his shoulder for a TD. Furrey and Patten were also out there, and they still have gas in the tank as well. Robo had this great spin after catching a ball that caught his defender off guard and garnered a few extra yards. Massaquoi was out there on the wide ends of the field catching moderate length passes from DA. Cribbs and Edwards also saw action: Cribbs got quite a few passes as well as kick returning along with Furrey and James Davis.

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT 2:

 

RB: I can't say too much about this one... they didn't play tackle, so I can't really judge how well our RBs will be able to break away. James Davis looked nice. I know you've heard this many times but he has great cutting ability. Harrison got some action and looked pretty good. Occasionally, Harrison was out in the deep field like a WR. At the end of the game Quinn threw long to Harrison who was a couple of yards from the endzone but the ball was way off target and went out of bounds. It was a bad pass but Quinn was pressured. Noah Herron suprised a lot of people with a 30 yard run (aprox.) for a TD. Lewis didn't do much. There was one drive where DA handed off to Lewis a bunch of times for 1 and 2 yard gains, then threw for an incomplete. I've seen too much of this last year. I'm sure that if they were playing tackle the gains would be a bit increased, though.

 

 

 

 

EDIT 3:

 

TE: Rob Royal got some nice catches from DA early in the game. Other than this I didn't really see too much happening with the Tight Ends. I can't even remember who was the TE on Quinn's team.

 

Oline and Dline: The Oline looked like they were overpowered a little on both teams. They fell back a lot but largely held. None of the QBs had a that much of a pocket. Alex Mack let Shawn Rogers bowl over him twice to snag DA for 2 sacks. (and when I say sack, I mean he slapped him on the chest ... no tackles, remember?) Well, at least he got no penalties this game. Rogers did get a penalty for false start, and made a hilarious and theatrical show of anger when he did it. I then yelled out on the field "Hey Shawn... go run a lap!" Alex Hall also managed a sack on Richard Bartel.... I can't remember who he was up against, though. Sorry. I was hoping to see something out of hopeful prospects David Veikune or Kaluka Maiava but didn't catch anything.

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT 4:

 

Secondary: Major props to D'quell Jackson for that nice interception on DA. He came out of nowhere and carried it out of the endzone for about 30 yards. Afterwards he took out an imaginary notepad, wrote in it, and made a big checkmark gesture. Overall, our pass coverage looked solid, even on Edwards. There were a few tips and good coverage all around. I'm happy with what I've seen so far.

 

Special Teams: Unsurprisingly, both Dawson and Zastudil looked good. Zastudil had this awesome 50-60 yard punt that landed on the 2 yard line and just stopped dead. At the end of the game, Dawson lined up for a 49 field goal attempt and clipped the outside of the tines and he missed, letting DA's team win the game. Beyond that, Dawson was great, and all his feild goals and extra points were right down the middle. As I mentioned eariler, Cribbs, Furrey, and Davis were all returning kicks.... At the beginning of the game, Cribbs had this awesome return and honestly I think he would have made it to the endzone if they werent playing touch. Davis did good returning the ball and Furrey looked agile on his feet as well.

 

 

 

EDIT 5:

 

QB: Ok... here we go. All 4 QBs played, with Quinn and DA starting and ending the game, with the middle two quarters being largely played by Ratliff and Bartell. DA had a very unimpressive 3 and out opening to which Quinn respond to with a 51 yard TD to Lance Legget. DA in general really reminded me of the DA we've seen for years. He hasn't changed much. He still has that strong arm and can make great long plays, and still struggles with the short ones. Quite a few short passes he threw were bullet passes that sailed over receivers heads and between their hands. Like I mentioned earlier, he also had a couple passes batted down. IMO he holds on to the ball too long sometimes. Near the end of the game he managed to scramble for a TD and looked goofy while doing it. From what I've seen, DA just doesn't know how to float the ball. On the flip side, Quinn delivered some nice short passes to the chests and stomachs instead of above the heads of his receivers. Quinn also threw down field... some of them were really nice (that 51 yard TD was a beauty) and some of them were ugly (the attempt to Harrison at the end of the game). Quinn had some bad passes as well... most notably one that was behind Legget that he bobbled... the ball went flying and Mike Adams caught it for an interception. During the end of the game I saw Quinn making a few snap judgments and getting the ball loose quickly, which is nice because he also has some struggle with that sometimes.

 

Ratliff looked pretty nice... pretty similar to DA. That guy has a cannon on his arm as well, and made some excellent long throws, including a really nice 50 yard pass to Patten for a TD. Bartell was largely unimpressive but had a few throws that looked on target... but I can't recall anything else about Bartell that stood out to me. To be honest, when these two were on the field I was mostly worrying about when DA and Quinn would be back on.

 

In the end, both DA and Quinn look decent, but DA couldn't put too much together today. I give Quinn the edge due to his ability to move the ball better in short throws, but neither QB looked like the dominating franchise QBs we dream about. Now, don't get me wrong... Yes,we're not looking at another Tom Brady, here, but Both DA and Quinn can handle this offense IMO. As long as either of them don't lose games for us, I will be happy with our '09 Brownies and what Mankok has done with the team so far.

 

 

 

Thats about it, guys... I added a few things in the previous sections so read back a bit.

 

Any questions?

[YtownBrownsBacker]

That was my read, that Quinn was a little better. I would've flipped them and put Quinn with the ones in the second half, just to get a clearer comparison. Davis and Massoquoi are for real. Furrey was a great pickup.

 

What's with Ratliff and bombs every preseason? That kid needs a chance as a starter somewhere, some time.

 

He may get it here if neither QB steps up.............Mangini didn't bring him here to cut him.

[Alendor]

ratliff made DA look like he should be third string

[brownspwnj00]

Yo wombat,

 

Thanks for the nice report. Wish I could've been there.

 

A couple of questions for ya:

 

Supposedly DA has improved his accuracy on short/intermediate throws, did you notice that at all? Also, was there any blitzing going on in the defense, or were they just playing base defense the whole time?

 

 

And finally, did you spot Romeo Crennel anywhere trying to smuggle a bucket of KFC into the stadium?

 

 

[DeadWombat]

Yo wombat,

 

Thanks for the nice report. Wish I could've been there.

 

A couple of questions for ya:

 

Supposedly DA has improved his accuracy on short/intermediate throws, did you notice that at all? Also, was there any blitzing going on in the defense, or were they just playing base defense the whole time?

 

 

I'm typing up the QB stuff now... and I have to say IMO DA still struggles with short throws. There was some nice blitzes going on and I liked what I saw, but largely I wasnt paying attention and focusing more on how the offense was doing. However, I am liking what Rob Ryan is doing with the defence.

And finally, did you spot Romeo Crennel anywhere trying to smuggle a bucket of KFC into the stadium?

 

Yes, but he was stopped at the gate when the guards patted him down. They found a chicken wing under his left manboob.

[Guest Aloysius]

Rogers did get a penalty for false start, and made a hilarious and theatrical show of anger when he did it. I then yelled out on the field "Hey Shawn... go run a lap!"

[DieHardBrownsFan]

 

Looked more like walking a lap to me!!! Get them big ass legs pumping their tubby!

[brownspwnj00]

Yes, but he was stopped at the gate when the guards patted him down. They found a chicken wing under his left manboob.

 

 

LMAO! He was probably saving that one for his buddy Mo Carthon, the two of them were there to explain to Mangini that Harrison should get no more than 2 snaps a game, and that the Lawrence Vickers fullback pass should be the only play in the playbook.

[ballpeen]

In a round about way my comment is germane to the topic, but I REALLY like the way Mangini conducts business.

 

Seems like EVERYTHING is geared to being better on Sundays...the game today, the practices, the holding people accountable by making them run laps.

 

It all starts in practice...I am pretty pumped. As guys start entering their 2nd, 3rd, 4th year under this guy, I can see how we will be a well disciplined team, governed by the team leaders.

 

I think we are on our way fella's...and gal's...I haven't felt this good about the Browns in a long time.

[Vegasdogg]

From NFL.COM

 

Highlights from Browns scrimmage

Posted: August 9th, 2009 | NFL.com Staff | Tags: Brady Quinn, Cleveland Browns, Derek Anderson, Thomas George

 

Some running observations from the Cleveland Browns scrimmage held in Cleveland Browns Stadium:

 

The scrimmage features Cleveland in split teams, one team wearing brown uniforms, the other white.

It is a Browns family and fun day, and most of the lower bowl is scattered with a few thousand fans.

No tackling. No hitting. Officials monitor and blow the whistle where a tackle would have likely occurred.

Derek Anderson struggled in the first half. On his opening possession, he had difficulty completing a screen pass. It got worse from there. Off in his timing and simply looked uncomfortable.

Brady Quinn early had no such problems. His first snap was a long bomb for a touchdown to receiver Lance Leggett.

Quinn showed one clear edge he has on Anderson: Quinn is much more mobile and more effective on bootleg passes. In fact, his passing score came on one.

Anderson continues to struggle. Drives team to the Red Zone and is picked off in the end zone by linebacker D’Qwell Jackson. Jackson returns it near midfield. Poor pass. Forced pass.

In the second half, Noah Herron breaks through the middle for a long TD run. This fifth-year back from Northwestern shows a nice burst.

David Patten just scored on a long bomb from quarterback Brett Ratliff, the former Jet. Even Ratliff is outplaying Anderson.

Later, Anderson finally has a breakthrough. Not with his arm. With his feet. He scrambles up the middle for a short scoring run in the fourth quarter. The coaches have to wonder if that was because he could not find open receivers or because he simply made something out of nothing. That will be a meticulous review by the coaches.

Uh-oh. Brady just picked with 7:05 left. Anderson has a further chance for redemption. It’s 14-14. Stay tuned.

Anderson drives the Browns to the 10. It is third-and-7. His quick-slant pass to receiver Braylon Edwards is two yards behind Edwards. Field goal. Anderson’s team up 17-14. There is 3:45 left in the scrimmage. Now, Quinn’s turn.

Quinn drives his team inside the 40 and sets up a long field goal for the tie. It bounces off the left upright. Anderson wins. Brown team wins. So what? Quinn had the better game. Right now, Quinn is the better quarterback.

[OconRecon]

From NFL.COM - Quinn had the better game. Right now, Quinn is the better quarterback

 

I'm wondering if Quinn was pulled early in the first half to protect him. Or maybe he scored too quickly on the first series, thus limiting his total plays.

[Dan in Florida]

Family Day Scrimmage Recap

By Fred Greetham

Posted Aug 9, 2009

 

Fred Greetham was at CBS for today's scrimmage, and provides the details of the rather uneventful happenings.

 

 

Cleveland At least it started with a bang!

 

In the sweltering heat hovering above 90 degrees, the Browns scrimmaged in game-like situations for a little over two hours on Family Day at Cleveland Browns Stadium.

 

In the end, the Brown team coached by Brad Seely scored 17 unanswered points to prevail 17-14. Phil Dawson attempted a 49-yard field goal with 27 seconds left to play for the White, but it bounced off the left upright.

 

Earlier, Dawson kicked a 29-yard field goal to give the Brown a 17-14 in the fourth period.

 

The game started with Derek Anderson, quarterback of the Brown team, having a quick three-and-out series before turning it over to the White team with Brady Quinn at quarterback.

 

Quinn's coach, Carl Smith, had Quinn throw deep on the first play and he hit Lance Leggett for a 51-yard touchdown as Leggett got behind Rod Hood and Nick Sorensen. Quinn's throw was right on the money and Leggett made a nice grab in the end zone. That was the only scoring of the first half as Dawson made it 7-0.

 

Other than that play, little else happened in the first half.

 

Anderson was marching his team down the field and had the Brown to the 14-yard line of the White when he threw across the middle for the end zone and D'Qwell Jackson stepped in front of the receiver and intercepted the pass returning it 40 yards to thwart the drive.

 

The White team increased its lead to 14-0 as Noah Herron took off up the middle and raced 39 yards for a score in the third quarter.

 

Quickly, thereafter, Brett Ratliff found David Patten who went close to 70 yards for the score to make it 14-7. After another big play, some 58 yards from Ratliff to Patten, the Brown team was at the White six-yard line to start the fourth quarter.

 

Anderson came in for Ratliff and scrambled for the final six yards to tie the game at 14-14 on the first play of the final quarter.

 

After a pass intended for Leggett from Quinn went off of Leggett's hands, Mike Adams made the interception and that set up Dawson's field goal to give the Brown a 17-14 lead.

 

Quinn was at the controls for the final drive and the White took over around their own 30 and marched to the Brown 31 before attempting the final field goal.

link

[DeadWombat]

Okay, sounds unanimous: Round one to Quinn.

 

 

 

That report Vegasdogg posted was a little biased... DA had some great throws to Edwards, Royal, and Massaquoi.... IMO he was more accurate than normal... especially on the longer passes. There were very few times where I was thinking "WTF did he just throw?". Its the short stuff that kills him. I just keep seeing the images of bullet passes passing over receivers heads again and again... He was the usual DA.

 

 

But yes, this game goes to Quinn.

 

 

 

After a pass intended for Leggett from Quinn went off of Leggett’s hands, Mike Adams made the interception and that set up Dawson’s field goal to give the Brown a 17-14 lead.

 

I want to add that what happened was the pass was behind Leggett. Leggett got his hands on the ball, but they quickly flew out, and Mike Adams dove for it and caught it just before it hit the ground.

 

 

EDIT: I added that to the OP.

[OconRecon]

Quinn throws 51-yard TD pass in Browns scrimmage

 

 

CLEVELAND (AP) -- Looking to take the lead in the quarterback competition, Brady Quinn threw a 51-yard touchdown pass on his first play in the Cleveland Browns scrimmage.

 

Quinn made a play-action fake, then threw a long arcing pass to Lance Leggett, who beat two defenders to run under the ball a couple of steps into the end zone at Cleveland Browns Stadium on Sunday.

 

Quinn and Derek Anderson are in a heated competition to become the Browns' starting quarterback. First-year coach Eric Mangini has yet to select a favorite.

 

Anderson's brown team defeated Quinn's white team, 17-14.

 

Anderson led a long drive later in the scrimmage, but was intercepted at the goal line by linebacker D'Qwell Jackson. Anderson's pass was intended for tight end Robert Royal, who appeared to be open. But Jackson dropped back in coverage, picked off the pass and returned it 40 yards.

 

Quinn later threw an interception when his pass went through Leggett's hands and was picked off by defensive back Mike Adams.

 

Mangini has said throughout training camp that he has no timetable for choosing his starter. The Browns play their first preseason game Saturday in Green Bay.

[dawgpound3]

I think Quinn is going to be the unanimous starter.

[ClevelandRocks]

Hey guys my first post, But i wanted to share my 2 cents about the scrimmage today:

 

Defense looked much better! it's hard to tell without tackling but we did get good pressure on the QB's and did a good job defending the pass and run (except for the long noah herron run).

 

QB's: Derek started slow but then lead a nice drive before throwing it away. His pick was inexcusable. There was tight man coverage on the reciever who was then sandwiched between Jackson playing zone over the middle when he made the throw. He was locked in the whole time it was classic DA. He wasn't terrible but closer to the DA from last year then the year before and still not fit to be a starting QB in my opinion.

 

Brady was solid and made several nice throws under pressure. There was a laser to Cribbs between 2 defenders for a first down and a couple other nice throws that were dropped by legget. He moved the chains every time he was in but they would often goto Bartell right after he had a nice completion. he stepped up to avoid pressure and completed a pass to Cribbs over the middle. He also had that beautiful playaction pass for a long TD. Perfectly thrown

 

RB's: Jamal didn't get many carries but looks completley washed up. He had no gains over 3 yards that I can remember, basically the same as last year. If we keep giving him carries it could be a long year. Harrison and Davis were both contained by the defense although they did catch a few nice screen passes. Noah Herron looked really good on that long TD Run but didn't see much of him other then that.

-Overall running gamed looked bad and there were several 3rd and 1's we should have run on but opted to throw the ball. I hated the short yardage playcalling

 

TE's: Royal dropped several balls and was a dissapointment to me. DA targeted him ALOT. Rucker looked good and made a few nice catches from Quin.

 

Receivers: Braylon looked good, Massoquoi was very impressive, Legget made the GREAT td catch but then DROPPED at least 2 and tipped 1 up in the air for a pick. And no it wasnt thown behind him it hit him right in the hands in front of his chest. Patten was VERY impressive and furrey looked good too. Also Cribbs had a big day and caught several balls from Brady including a well blocked screen pass. Hubbard didnt do much and really Robiskie didn't do too much either.

 

Overall I was a little concerned about the O-line and the running game but hope this as due to an improved defense. Rogers is a beast and looks like he's in even better shape then last year. I'm excited for the first preseason game!

[ClevelandRocks]

Thanks alot! I've been reading for awhile just never posted before

[Alendor]

you can't put too much blame on the running game. running is all about hitting the holes and breaking tackles. when your playing 2 hand touch you don't get an accurate showing of the running game. especially with someone like JL who is a power back who breaks tackles alot.

[Vegasdogg]

Rogers is a beast and looks like he's in even better shape then last year. I'm excited for the first preseason game!

Man I really hope we turn his ass loose, even in a gap responsible 3-4. He needs to freelance and crush the pocket more times this season. Better shape?? Man that doesn't bode well for other teams!

 

And your comments about the running game - I just hope that is our D being more "stout" as Mangini likes to say, and not just a poor RB crew.

[DeadWombat]

Man I really hope we turn his ass loose, even in a gap responsible 3-4. He needs to freelance and crush the pocket more times this season. Better shape?? Man that doesn't bode well for other teams!

 

And your comments about the running game - I just hope that is our D being more "stout" as Mangini likes to say, and not just a poor RB crew.

 

 

Actually like Alendor said I'm pretty sure its because they were playing touch.... I mean, think about it. How are you gonna run a guy through the line when all it takes to stop him is to simply slap him on the shoulder?

 

Once we see our RBs shed tackles and power through defenders they will look a bit more impressive.

[ClevelandRocks]

Actually like Alendor said I'm pretty sure its because they were playing touch.... I mean, think about it. How are you gonna run a guy through the line when all it takes to stop him is to simply slap him on the shoulder?

 

Once we see our RBs shed tackles and power through defenders they will look a bit more impressive.

 

I agree there was a punt return where cribbs looked like he was gonna break it and someone like poked him as he was running by and they whistled it dead haha. Also there was an obvious focus on the pass today. I think we'll run the ball ok but I'm still worried about jamal

[Jason J]

Ratliff looked pretty nice... pretty similar to DA. That guy has a cannon on his arm as well, and made some excellent long throws. Bartell was largely unimpressive with the exception of having a really nice 50 yard pass to Patten for a TD. Beyond that though... I can't recall anything else about Bartell that stood out to me. To be honest, when these two were on the field I was mostly worrying about when DA and Quinn would be back on.

 

 

Bartell and Patten were on opposite teams. It was Ratliff to Patten.

 

Just a note.

 

-jj

[DeadWombat]

Bartell and Patten were on opposite teams. It was Ratliff to Patten.

 

Just a note.

 

-jj

 

 

 

My bad.... must have gotten the two mixed up somehow. I fixed the OP.

[Vegasdogg]

I am pretty concerned that after you take away Quinn's first play (51yd TD) he averaged under 4 yards per pass play. DA wasn't much better with his redzone INT and 3 and outs. Only a scrimmage and nothing to get excited about, but 4 yards per pass play? As Lawerence Taylor once said after he sacked a QB: "Son, you gonna have to do a lot better than that."

[LeBrent]

Massoquoi was very impressive

 

Man I think I really underestimated him when we drafted him. I thought he was a lot less NFL ready than he apparently is. It would be really nice if he developed into a solid #2 or at least play opposite Braylon some to help spread the field.

 

BTW, was Robiskie even thrown to? I haven't heard anything about him. What team was he on?

[DeadWombat]

Man I think I really underestimated him when we drafted him. I thought he was a lot less NFL ready than he apparently is. It would be really nice if he developed into a solid #2 or at least play opposite Braylon some to help spread the field.

 

BTW, was Robiskie even thrown to? I haven't heard anything about him. What team was he on?

 

 

Robo was on the white team with Quinn and had a few short catches, but none of them were spectacular. It was mostly him going wide, and catching a ball after a few steps for quick yardage. If you read the OP you'll see he did have some nice footwork from what I saw.

[YtownBrownsBacker]

Robo was on the white team with Quinn and had a few short catches, but none of them were spectacular. It was mostly him going wide, and catching a ball after a few steps for quick yardage. If you read the OP you'll see he did have some nice footwork from what I saw.

 

Robo was solid but there wasn't anybody on the other side to take the coverage away from him. Masso had Edwards getting doubled on every down.

 

[Alendor]

ya, the brown team had the offense pretty stacked. thomas, stienbach, BE, lewis. even then DA sucked.

[Riffer X]

Robo was solid but there wasn't anybody on the other side to take the coverage away from him. Masso had Edwards getting doubled on every down.

 

Robo had a sweet sideline go route called incomplete that was sweet. I just saw a quick highlight of it.

[Gips]

ya, the brown team had the offense pretty stacked. thomas, stienbach, BE, lewis. even then DA sucked.

 

I was hopeful that DA would have drastically improved by now but from what i have seen and read he is pretty much the exact same DA even under only semi-pressure situations...a big disappointment..

 

BQ after 3 years of benchrot i would expect him to still be shaking off the rust of never fully developing at nfl speed it seems to me that quinn is about where he should be but its still a disappointment that he hasnt been able to step it up and clearly take the lead for the starting job...

 

It may come down to if mangini prefers a guy that appears to be pretty much at the end of his development and a high risk gambler that can win it or lose it in one pass/discision...

 

Or a high risk 3 year benchrot rookie that never got the opportunity to fully or correctly develop he may grow into the nfl fast and be our answer or he may not grow at all and be a flop...

 

Honestly im glad its not my call but im betting Quinn shakes off the rust and steps it up in the preseason to steal the starting job at the last second while DA looks like DA.. hot and cold from play to play ,drive to drive and half to half...

 

However if bq cant shake the rust and at least start looking like he can develop relatively fast and bond with the team i would have to start DA...

 

Im fairly comfortable with either one under center and pretty much know what to expect from them both...quinn short and not so safe ,anderson long pass gains followed by an interception or inconsistancy leading to a punt...hehehehe

 

With all the old age injury bait on the right side of the OL this year im betting our running game will be limited and sporadic adding to the woes of either passer...