Guest Aloysius Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 4:05 p.m. Sunday (Browns Family Day, Cleveland, Ohio): If autograph-signing won quarterback jobs, Brady Quinn would be a Hall of Famer. Now. For 65 minutes, he signed for the crowd of 14,000 attending the Brown-White Scrimmage at Cleveland Browns Stadium, and when he got back to the locker room after the scrimmage, most of his teammates were gone. Nothing decided today in the scrimmage. Quinn threw a gorgeous, early touchdown, but still looks to have accuracy issues, and Derek Anderson threw a bad interception to D'Qwell Jackson at the goal line, ruining one drive. I told Quinn he didn't look as frenetic in and around the pocket as he'd looked the last two years. Being frenetic doesn't help a quarterback be great; just ask Kyle Boller. Quinn told me he spent part of the offseason looking at all of Brady's 599 pass-drops in the 2007 season, trying to get a feel for his footwork and pocket presence. Good idea, and it's showing. Quinn looks calmer, which is good, and he's sucking in the knowledge from new offensive coordinator Brian Daboll, formerly with the Patriots, on all things Brady. The Browns, however, were the first team I've been around this summer that I just didn't get a good vibe from. The players are still feeling out Eric Mangini, and more than a few think he's working them too hard. Well, the Browns were 4-12 last year, fired the coach and GM, and need a new sheriff. That's what Mangini is trying to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aloysius Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Also this: Factoid of the Week That May Interest Only Me II I learned exclusively Sunday that Eric Mangini had the stomach flu on the day he interviewed with Cleveland owner Randy Lerner for the Browns' coaching job last November. He felt queasy on the drive to Lerner's Long Island home, and had to have his driver and brother-in-law pull over a couple of blocks from the house so he could throw up, twice. During a break in the meeting, Mangini used the bathroom and threw up a third time. And during the second half of the meeting, he asked Lerner to hold that thought ... while he threw up a fourth time. That's what I call playing hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NebBrownsFan Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 "The players are still feeling out Eric Mangini, and more than a few think he's working them too hard." LOL....gotta feel sorry for all those players that were used to RAC's annual gathering for ribs and beer that he called training camp.....NOT!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Cheesedick Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 why does our owner live in New York? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AdaM Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Because quite simply, he's too good to live in Cleveland. I've often wondered the same thing. He lives in NY, bought a soccer team in England. Could he make it any more apparent that the Cleveland Browns are no more than an afterthought to him? I sometimes think the Browns woe's are caused not only by the ineptitude of him as an owner and who he's hired to run the team, but also by the bad karma due to the fact our owner's wealth has come primarily by ripping people off via the MBNA credit card company that he owned. That's one thing Ghoolie and I always agreed on, Lerner is pure shit as an owner. I'm hoping by sheer luck that this time he's hired the right person for the job. You know what they say about blind squirrels finding nuts. I wish he would sell the team to the city so the city could use the revenue for something good, like cleaning up that shithole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squintz Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 I wish he would sell the team to the city so the city could use the revenue for something good, like cleaning up that shithole. To the CITY!? Hell, I think the ONLY person/entity I don't want Lerner selling the Browns to would be the city. Frank Jackson is the mayor of Cleveland. He used "ain't' in his acceptance speech. Enough said. But I do wish Lerner would sell. He's not a Clevelander. Period. The guy loves New York and soccer in England. Find me one other true Clevelander that you can make those two statements about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Because quite simply, he's too good to live in Cleveland. I've often wondered the same thing. He lives in NY, bought a soccer team in England. Could he make it any more apparent that the Cleveland Browns are no more than an afterthought to him? I sometimes think the Browns woe's are caused not only by the ineptitude of him as an owner and who he's hired to run the team, but also by the bad karma due to the fact our owner's wealth has come primarily by ripping people off via the MBNA credit card company that he owned. That's one thing Ghoolie and I always agreed on, Lerner is pure shit as an owner. I'm hoping by sheer luck that this time he's hired the right person for the job. You know what they say about blind squirrels finding nuts. Okay, a few things. 1. Why does it even matter if Randy Lerner lives in CLE? It certainly doesn't matter to me. He's in the same time zone and can be in CLE in an hour if needed. He's there game day. 2. He lived in NY and worked for MBNA before he became the owner of the Browns. When his father died, he became the owner of the Browns and the head of MBNA at the time. 3. Essentially Randy has hired Savage/RAC, and now Mangini/Kokinis. So one set of a bad hire makes him inept? 4. So how can this guy be someone who is both called a hands on meddling owner and one who has the Browns as an after thought to him? 5. Dan Gilbert lives in Michigan. Shouldn't we be bitching about him too then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 To the CITY!? Hell, I think the ONLY person/entity I don't want Lerner selling the Browns to would be the city. Frank Jackson is the mayor of Cleveland. He used "ain't' in his acceptance speech. Enough said. But I do wish Lerner would sell. He's not a Clevelander. Period. The guy loves New York and soccer in England. Find me one other true Clevelander that you can make those two statements about. Drew Carey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Bernie Kosar needs to buy the Browns. He's fiscally responsible. I hope that is a joke. Bernie filed for bankruptcy recently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Tasteless joke, at best. As long as you were joking :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 First of all, you guys act like caring about your team and having the football acumen to build a winner are mutually exclusive, they are not. Lerner, is NOT always at the games on gameday, and rarely travels with the team. He bought the soccer franchise before he made the Browns a winner. Make the Browns winners first, then go play with your faggoty soccer team. He basically divided his time/attention/care between the Browns and a soccer team. I can't stress enough how much of a f*ck you that is to the city and fans of Cleveland. Also, I don't believe there's any chance in hell another owner would ever be able to move a team out of Cleveland. We've sucked for 10 years now and still sell out just about every game. Besides the owners would never allow it, hell congress would never allow it. Perhaps you forgot what a controversy it was when Modell did it way back when. Like the Jews say about the Holocaust, never again (no im not seriously comparing the two, so don't get your panties in a bunch) I just don't think he's a good owner. And perhaps some have called him "meddling" but I've never made that accusation. So what does he have to do to show he cares? This is subjective. I have not heard of him not being at home games unless work had him out of town. Even if not there, do you know he isn't watching? It's unfounded accusations. So what if he bought a soccer team before he made the Browns a winner. By reports, he isn't exactly hands on w/ that soccer team. He put a management team in place there like he has tried to do with the Browns. He had more success with that plan with the soccer team. Let's also not make it out like it is that easy to make the Browns a winning team, especially on your first go around as the owner. I think we should all see what happens on this second go around before calling for his head. It's not like he didn't can an entire staff, and ate the cost of it (including the extension part). Guys who don't care as owners don't usually pay big contract buyouts. And again, where are the calls for Gilberts head for not living in CLE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 I agree. Who cares where he lives. The only thing him living in Cleveland would do is allow him more say so in the day to day...and that is usually a bad thing when owners start making football decisions. Who cares if he owns a soccer team in England?? Why is that such a big deal?? I think some people are moaning because they like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegasdogg Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 He bought the soccer franchise before he made the Browns a winner. Make the Browns winners first, then go play with your faggoty soccer team. He basically divided his time/attention/care between the Browns and a soccer team. I can't stress enough how much of a f*ck you that is to the city and fans of Cleveland. I just don't think he's a good owner. And perhaps some have called him "meddling" but I've never made that accusation. Bro, why are you hacking on Lerner? He is the first to admit he knows as much as most fans about football in the NFL, and that is why he leaves it up to the guys he hires. When Savage was brought in everyone thought he was savior, and that is was a good hire. The guy can't sell the team - he'd lose his ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffer X Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Bagging on an owner is classic fandom trying to pin blame on something, anything----so they can feel there is a resolution to the whole issue. Randy is not the problem here and never has been. Savage was a pretty good hire who ended up kinda acting like a moron, but for the most part Randy spends money and spares no expense. He offers his two cents but as a businessman he also understands that it's not in his best interest to be hands on, nor should it be. It doesn't have anything to do with his living in NY (BTW, he has a gorgeous home in Moreland Hills) or owning a soccer team. That soccer team is completely run by his management team over there and by all accounts they have completely turned things around (however you do that in soccer). Randy is a very passionate fan who has ties all over Cleveland and is here constantly, along with his family. I'm not going to pin every thing that goes wrong on an owner when teams like the Browns are besieged by injuries, bad QBing and tough schedules like last year. The year before they went 10-6, does he get the credit for that? If I have one bitch about Randy it was the layoffs the team did in the off season. Now that's bad karma to lay off about 15 people making on average 50K a year. Just doesn't bode well with me regardless of the economic ramifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Cheesedick Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 absentee ownership usually, (not always) leads to a less quality product. In my opinion, an owner should have a interest in the city his team represents. (and not just a fincancial interest) Randy was given a football team. He didn't grow up in the organization, work his way through like most of the family run NFL team new generation of owners did. He wasn't a fan of the team (or even the sport if reports are correct) prior to being given the team. I don't blame him for the poor records, I just lose a little "fandom" due to the fact that he is the way he is. Can it work,? maybe. It just reminds me that its a business, not a passion, for the man who owns the team we root for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gafreleets Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 i think the fans and city of cleveland would DEFINATELY do a better job as owners than you current owner. the drive of a team inevitably comes from the top down and your owner is driven only to have the browns be profitable (wich they are seeing as how you guys still are filling the stadium and buying merchandise) not champions. the best thing you guys could do to either 1. put pressure on him to sell the team or 2. put pressure on him to put more emphasis on winning than being profitable. and the best way to put pressure on a owner? his pocket........ you guys need to stage a walkout at a game or all stop buying browns gear. christ, the browns storied loyalty is the best thing that ever happen to this business decision. i mean, who else would be loyal (or stupid, depending on who you ask) enough to continue standing by their team and selling out the stadium even after an entire decade of putrid football play with no end in sight? take my advice and hit him in his pocketbook.......you'd be surprised at how fast and often the browns are going deep into the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 why does our owner live in New York? I believe he has a home out in the Hamptons where he stays mostly. The reason he lives there is that he is extremely wealthy and can live anywhere he wants and he wants to live where there are other extremely wealthy people. I understand though that he also has a home here, somewhere in Shaker Hts. I believe perhaps on North Park Blvd., though, that may be where his mother lives. Perhaps his sister as well. Not sure. Not really my business. Though, I do understand that Randy's mother and sister may in fact be equal owners of the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 absentee ownership usually, (not always) leads to a less quality product. In my opinion, an owner should have a interest in the city his team represents. (and not just a fincancial interest) Randy was given a football team. He didn't grow up in the organization, work his way through like most of the family run NFL team new generation of owners did. He wasn't a fan of the team (or even the sport if reports are correct) prior to being given the team. I don't blame him for the poor records, I just lose a little "fandom" due to the fact that he is the way he is. Can it work,? maybe. It just reminds me that its a business, not a passion, for the man who owns the team we root for. Define absentee? Randy Lerner grew up a Browns fan and was a fan while his father ran the team. Guy was going to Browns games as a kid with his father. http://www.centry.com/browns/owner.html http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3725743 People couldn't be further from the truth. Know something about his background before speaking on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gafreleets Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Ok here's a little test for those of you in the "we need an owner who cares!" camp. and even though you can cheat in this day of google, do us all an honest favor and don't, take this test honestly. Name the owners of all the NFL teams??? can you name more than 10 out of 32? Can you tell me for sure where they live in relation to thier team? can you tell me how much they really care about their team? Now, how many of the well know owners that "care" on that list would you consider a good owner?? now i'd like you to take a list of owners that show alot of interest in their teams and are fans of the game and have a real passion for it and compare it to the list of owners that have a superbowl win in the last 15yrs and i bet alot more of the owners that "care" have more championships than the owners that just have a NFL team as a good investment. passion = winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 now i'd like you to take a list of owners that show alot of interest in their teams and are fans of the game and have a real passion for it and compare it to the list of owners that have a superbowl win in the last 15yrs and i bet alot more of the owners that "care" have more championships than the owners that just have a NFL team as a good investment. passion = winning. And to what do you base your assessment that Lerner has no passion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Passion Daniel Snyder Al Davis Heck while the Rooney's and Robert Kraft definitely have built winning franchises. They are not at all "passionate" in my book. They hire the right people to do the job and then stand back and watch them do it. Sounds familiar does it not? but even right there. That's 4 examples. two horrible and two incredible. what does that get you? Right back to my original point, changing owership gives you and best a 50-50 shot of eventually getting better....is it really worth the risk? Add in Jerry Jones. When was the last time the Cowboys won a playoff game again..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 ahh we're back to the "Lerner should sell the team so we can get an owner who cares more" theme are we? I always have to bring reality into these discussions BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR. DANIEL SNYDER really cares about the Wshington Redskins. Do you really want an owner like him? Al Davis Really cares about the Raiders. Nuff said. That's not even to begin to mention there is no guarantee a new owner wouldn't try to move the team. the only thing an owner can do to help his team win is hire the right front office people and head coach. Anything else is pure pablom for the fans. It has been commonly said that the Browns and Indians owners should swap teams as the Indians are in a no salary cap league....and Randy Lerner's money would have helped the Tribe keep all those good players that the Dolan's could not afford to keep. Lerner's $$$ would have allowed the Tribe to compete with the fat cats in baseball that can now spend unlimited amouts of money, like the Yankees and Red Sox. Whereas, the Dolans would be on an equal footing financially in the NFL with everyone else with the salary cap system there. Whatever the Dolans have done wrong, and it is plenty, they have been able to nurture good talent. They just cannot keep it when it is time to put up the cash. First Thome and Manny, then C.C., now Cliff Lee and Martinez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegasdogg Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 i think the fans and city of cleveland would DEFINATELY do a better job as owners than you current owner Are you out of your mind? Have you seen the way things are run by the City of Cleveland? Lerner is not lacking for passion, he is an owner who doesn't have a football acumen on par with some in the league, so he has to rely on those he hires. But to say he needs to sell is not only un-American, it does not take into account the investment he has made and the money he'd lose selling right now. Also, he has given each and every person he hires the best of everything, so he has given them the tools they require. Blaming ownership in this case is ignorant of the situation and the causes. City of Cleveland as owners? Are you dense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Cheesedick Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 just an opinion... just something about an owner that has to be in town on Monday morning. Of course I have no control over who owns the Browns, and as long as they win, whomever is fine. I just like the local flavor, the guy who says "I represent Cleveland" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Of course I have no control over who owns the Browns, and as long as they win, whomever is fine. I just like the local flavor, the guy who says "I represent Cleveland" Can you really get more local than Lerner? Grew up in Cleveland, went to Browns games as a kid, and wore Browns PJ's to bed every night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aloysius Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Keep in mind that Kraft, who's one of the best owners in the league, ended up losing the Tuna because Parcells thought he meddled too much. It wasn't until after the failed Pete Carroll experiment that Kraft found the right head coach and management structure. And it's the one Lerner's trying to emulate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 So what does he have to do to show he cares? This is subjective. I have not heard of him not being at home games unless work had him out of town. Even if not there, do you know he isn't watching? It's unfounded accusations. So what if he bought a soccer team before he made the Browns a winner. By reports, he isn't exactly hands on w/ that soccer team. He put a management team in place there like he has tried to do with the Browns. He had more success with that plan with the soccer team. Let's also not make it out like it is that easy to make the Browns a winning team, especially on your first go around as the owner. I think we should all see what happens on this second go around before calling for his head. It's not like he didn't can an entire staff, and ate the cost of it (including the extension part). Guys who don't care as owners don't usually pay big contract buyouts. And again, where are the calls for Gilberts head for not living in CLE. Well, figure it out, Jerry Reinsdorf owns both the Chicago Bulls and the White Sox. As owner he brought multiple titles to that town with his NBA team, and a World Series winner with the White Sox. So, you can do both. The Glazers own the Tampa Bay Bucs and won a Super Bowl, and they also own Manchester United and won championships over there with that team. So, this sort of thing can be done. It just comes down to getting the right organization/coaching/talent in here. Lerner's job is to spend his cash, not to coach or GM etc. By all indications he is spending all the money he needs to be successful. I just hasn't worked....yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgTracker Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Add in Jerry Jones. When was the last time the Cowboys won a playoff game again..... Jerry Jones was upset that Jimmy Johnson received too much credit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Jerry Jones was upset that Jimmy Johnson received too much credit That has worked out so well for Jerry...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Ok here's a little test for those of you in the "we need an owner who cares!" camp. and even though you can cheat in this day of google, do us all an honest favor and don't, take this test honestly. Name the owners of all the NFL teams??? can you name more than 10 out of 32? Can you tell me for sure where they live in relation to thier team? can you tell me how much they really care about their team? Now, how many of the well know owners that "care" on that list would you consider a good owner?? OK, let's see if I can name as many of these as I can, since you have issued the challenge: Patriots: Robert Kraft Jets: Don't know now, used to be Hess, but he died and sold Giants: the Tisch/Mara families Buffalo: Ralph Wilson Jr. Eagles: Jeffrey Laurie Steelers: Dan Rooney Ravens: Steven Biscotti Redskins: Dan Snyder Panthers: Jerry? Richardson Jags: Wayne Weaver Tampa: Malcolm Glazer and family Miami: new owner is Roth or Ross, something like that Titans: still Bud Adams Bengals: Mike Brown Browns: Randy Lerner Lions: William Ford Bears: McCaskey/Halas family Packers: Citizens of Green Bay Vikings: this one, I don't know Rams: I believe the estate of Georgia Frontiere still owns. Not sure if her son has decided to take over or sell Chiefs: Hunt family still I believe. Heirs of Lamar Hunt Saints: Tom Benson Texans: Robert McNair? I believe Cowboys: Jerry Jones of course Broncos: Pat Bowlen Cardinals: still Bill Bidwell Chargers: not sure. Was Alex Spanos. He may have died. Not sure if sold Raiders: Al Davis 49ers: York/DeBartolo Seahawks: I believe Paul Allen owns them Colts: Jim Irsay Falcons: Home Depot guy...Arthur Blank All this off the top of my head. How'd I do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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