This Team Lacks Talent

[Sony Reed]

I don't want to rain on anyones parade, but folks lets examine what this team is all about this season.....We are REBUILDING

 

This team does not have much talent, everyone is upset about last night but what you saw is much of what you will get this season

 

This team is at least 2 drafts away from contending and Mangini getting his type of players

 

This team has with the exception of Edwards and Cribbs zero offensive playmakers, and please people lets get off the Jerome Harrison as a every down back the guy is not and never will be a every down NFL running back

 

On Defense until we get some guys who can rush the passer and create turnovers we won't contend, When are the Browns going to admit they made a mistake with Wimbley and move on? The guy is a BUST and a new coaching staff is not going to change that

 

This defense has maybe 3 guys that could start for most NFL teams the remaining players on defense are role players or backups

 

The offensive line is not a good as most people on this board think it is, we have Thomas and a developing Mack and thats it folks, Steinbach, Womack, Tucker, St.Clair these guys have all played there best football, look over the next 2 drafts for a RG, LG and RT

 

On a final note neither QB is a Franchise QB and I believe Mangini will regret the day he traded a Franchise QB in Sanchez to the Jets, Brady Quinn is not the guy and many people will find out this season why he lasted as long as he did in the draft, the Browns are still going to have to draft a franchise quarterback because that guy is not on this roster

 

So lets enjoy the season and watch the young guys we drafted develop over the season and hope in the next 2 years we get it right this time

 

Not attempting to be Doom and Gloom just how I see this team........If we win 4 games consider it a good season

[RestinPeace]

I don't want to rain on anyones parade, but folks lets examine what this team is all about this season.....We are REBUILDING

 

This team does not have much talent, everyone is upset about last night but what you saw is much of what you will get this season

 

This team is at least 2 drafts away from contending and Mangini getting his type of players

 

This team has with the exception of Edwards and Cribbs zero offensive playmakers, and please people lets get off the Jerome Harrison as a every down back the guy is not and never will be a every down NFL running back

 

On Defense until we get some guys who can rush the passer and create turnovers we won't contend, When are the Browns going to admit they made a mistake with Wimbley and move on? The guy is a BUST and a new coaching staff is not going to change that

 

This defense has maybe 3 guys that could start for most NFL teams the remaining players on defense are role players or backups

 

The offensive line is not a good as most people on this board think it is, we have Thomas and a developing Mack and thats it folks, Steinbach, Womack, Tucker, St.Clair these guys have all played there best football, look over the next 2 drafts for a RG, LG and RT

 

On a final note neither QB is a Franchise QB and I believe Mangini will regret the day he traded a Franchise QB in Sanchez to the Jets, Brady Quinn is not the guy and many people will find out this season why he lasted as long as he did in the draft, the Browns are still going to have to draft a franchise quarterback because that guy is not on this roster

 

So lets enjoy the season and watch the young guys we drafted develop over the season and hope in the next 2 years we get it right this time

 

Not attempting to be Doom and Gloom just how I see this team........If we win 4 games consider it a good season

 

Quinn>Sanchez. Though I believe both are system QB's. So is Anderson, but we aren't running a scheme that fits his skills. We all want a franchise QB, but there are only a few of those in the league. You gotta find a QB that fits your scheme and run with him. The franchise stuff is gravy.

 

 

[Kosar_For_President]

Wow all of this after one pre-season game? Dude, come on.

[Gips]

Wow all of this after one pre-season game? Dude, come on.

 

It comes from seeing the exact same plain vanilla crap we have seen for 4 years seeing no improvement on either side of the ball it looks exactly like where we left off last year including the qb controversy which should now be over but isnt because DA hasnt won it yet...

 

The O and D lines lack any punch whatsoever and cave in on one vs one encounters and collapse if there is a double team and our linebackers are still statues happily looking to engage the blocker while the ball carrier goes freely jetting by...

 

Our running game appears non existant with no decent RBs or power blocking to plow the row BE still has the dropsies and DA just sucks and deserves to be perma benched...

 

Mangini needs to name BQ starter and jump past the RAC 101 white ice baby vanilla crap and getthe defense moving around and paying attention to where the ball is the sooner he names a starter the sooner the offense can begin to focus...

 

Sure its only preseason game 1 but i think the browns and skins are the only teams that didnt score and we werent the ones playing the ravens...

[Guest mz.]

Sony is a rich4eagle clone through and through. Pessimism (which is different than lack of confidence BTW) abounds and a paen to the glory days and the inefficiency of the current regime are not far behind.

 

Take this crap with a boulder of salt.

[DeadWombat]

Sony is a rich4eagle clone through and through. Pessimism (which is different than lack of confidence BTW) abounds and a paen to the glory days and the inefficiency of the current regime are not far behind.

 

Take this crap with a boulder of salt.

 

 

As opposed to believing everything is alright?

 

 

The OP isnt really that pessimistic... I agree with most of the points.

[Guest mz.]

There's a difference between being pessimistic for a point in time and being pessimistic overall.

 

The OP and his brethren strike me as the latter.

[Sony Reed]

Wow all of this after one pre-season game? Dude, come on.

 

Yea, all this after the first season game.....tell me what is there to be excited about

 

Tell me what I said you disagree with?

 

You don't think this team is rebuilding then you are blind

 

I guess you like watching Jamal Lewis washed up a** at running back

 

[Sony Reed]

There's a difference between being pessimistic for a point in time and being pessimistic overall.

 

The OP and his brethren strike me as the latter.

 

This team lacks talent.....what do you not understand

 

You tell me where all this talent is, and I am not just speaking of one Pre Season game

 

Tell me why I should be excited?

 

Do you really believe talent wise this team compares to the top teams in the AFC and AFC North

 

We have No Quarterback, No running back and one NFL starting wide receiver, one LB and a bunch of backups and role players

 

We have a couple of young guys who may good but they are at least one year away

 

Stop drinking the Kool Aid and take a close look at this team its CRAP

 

Most of the veterans on this team will be gone after this year as Mangini brings in his own type of players

 

[roach]

Yea, all this after the first season game.....tell me what is there to be excited about

 

Tell me what I said you disagree with?

 

You don't think this team is rebuilding then you are blind

 

I guess you like watching Jamal Lewis washed up a** at running back

 

Pontbriand had a good game.

 

[choco]

We have No Quarterback, No running back and one NFL starting wide receiver, one LB and a bunch of backups and role players

this is why no-ones fulfilling your proposal to make your whiny ass feel better.....you know nothing of which you speak.

 

 

we MAY have a QB, have 2 RB's, and no #1 wide receiver. you say this team lacks talent, yet you lack the ability to judge them.

 

no reason to waste anymore time refuting your bitching.

[Sony Reed]

Pontbriand had a good game.

 

Roach, its sad when we have to talk about our long snapper having a good game

 

Do you think the Jets are missing Mangini

[Sony Reed]

this is why no-ones fulfilling your proposal to make your whiny ass feel better.....you know nothing of which you speak.

 

 

we MAY have a QB, have 2 RB's, and no #1 wide receiver. you say this team lacks talent, yet you lack the ability to judge them.

 

no reason to waste anymore time refuting your bitching.

 

Continue drinking the Kool Aid.....A SUCKER IS BORN EVERY DAY

 

What is there to Judge

 

I am done with you.............You are just a STUPID BROWNS FAN....I know this is a playoff team in your opinion Lol

 

[Greythan]

This team does lack talent. We all knew that and dicussed it the entire offseason.

 

The area this shows up most isn't in the role player but the playmaker.

 

We have one defensive playmaker and unfortunately for us he plays NT in the 3-4 (versus tackle in a 4-3 where you can "play make" more).

 

We have one offensive playmaker and he is notoriously inconsistent (BE).

 

That's a recipe for a lot of losses as it will require near perfect execution by the "team" to win games. You won't have a crucial sack by a Demarcus Ware. You won't have a long run off an average OL effort like you can get with a Peterson. You won't have a big INT or pass breakup like what an Ed Reed can give you.

 

Its going to be tough unless some guys not currently labeled as playmakers emerge and its hard to see that happening from any of the FA's we've brought in. As for the younger guys we've drafted in recent years.... time will tell.

[choco]

I know this is a playoff team in your opinion Lol

again...you dont know shit.

 

ive never posted a prediction....never indicated anything one way or the other with an exception of a preference DA over brady last year. and if you look around, you'll see i changed my mind. why is that?

 

 

the difference between us is that im here to learn as well.....youre here to talk.

[Sony Reed]

This team does lack talent. We all knew that and dicussed it the entire offseason.

 

The area this shows up most isn't in the role player but the playmaker.

 

We have one defensive playmaker and unfortunately for us he plays NT in the 3-4 (versus tackle in a 4-3 where you can "play make" more).

 

We have one offensive playmaker and he is notoriously inconsistent (BE).

 

That's a recipe for a lot of losses as it will require near perfect execution by the "team" to win games. You won't have a crucial sack by a Demarcus Ware. You won't have a long run off an average OL effort like you can get with a Peterson. You won't have a big INT or pass breakup like what an Ed Reed can give you.

 

Its going to be tough unless some guys not currently labeled as playmakers emerge and its hard to see that happening from any of the FA's we've brought in. As for the younger guys we've drafted in recent years.... time will tell.

 

You are 100% correct

 

[Sony Reed]

again...you dont know shit.

 

ive never posted a prediction....never indicated anything one way or the other with an exception of a preference DA over brady last year. and if you look around, you'll see i changed my mind. why is that?

 

 

the difference between us is that im here to learn as well.....youre here to talk.

 

Dueces

 

[Guest mz.]

Continue drinking the Kool Aid.....A SUCKER IS BORN EVERY DAY

 

Thanks for proving me correct, old man.

 

Can one not be realistic and a fan at the same time? We (ALL OF US) realize we aren't the Pats, Colts or Eagles, talent-wise, but we're still fans nevertheless. In your eyes, that makes us saps. In ours, it makes us excited for the brand new season to start.

 

Pray for us, Sony. We beg your forgiveness...

 

[ballpeen]

Roach, its sad when we have to talk about our long snapper having a good game

 

Do you think the Jets are missing Mangini

 

 

 

That is why Roach made the comment.

 

We do lack talent. We only have 2-3 guys who could actually start for a top 25% team.

[Guest Masters]

No NFL team lacks talent. They draft in inverse order of success and take the best college players. It wouldn't make any sense to say one team or another lacks talent. Ask any player -- every team has scads of gifted athletes.

 

The difference maker seems to be organizational, mostly continuity in ownership, head coach, offensive and defensive systems, and quarterback.

 

The cornerstone positions in football (tweaked for a 3-4) are left tackle, quarterback, #1 WR, pass rusher, nose tackle, and cover corner. The Browns have Thomas, Quinn, Edwards, Wimbley, Rogers, and Wright at those positions. Every single one but Wright was a first round pick, and right was, what? 33rd overall?

 

Does anybody think these guys lack talent? I certainly don't. I think the overall franchise needs to find, establish, and maintain identity and continuity from the top down. Before that happens, we'll be rebuilding every other year.

 

I'd add talent doesn't do any good if it isn't properly used. We see time and again guys who look washed up or just bad on one team, then a pro bowler the next on a new team. Of course to your point, it is usually when they move to a team with established organizational and coaching continuity.

[RestinPeace]

Shep, the problems is, the guys you mentioned, all of them probably aren't that good, probably a majority of them. Wimbley is probably on his last legs. Doesn't have the heart or drive. Wright IMO is a stepdown than you want, ditto for Edwards who seems on a Plax Burress career path right now.

 

Thomas still has questions though he has demonstrated excellent pass protection abilities. We all know about the Quinn story.

[hammertime]

This thread lacks character.

[Guest Masters]

Shep, the problems is, the guys you mentioned, all of them probably aren't that good, probably a majority of them. Wimbley is probably on his last legs. Doesn't have the heart or drive. Wright IMO is a stepdown than you want, ditto for Edwards who seems on a Plax Burress career path right now.

 

Thomas still has questions though he has demonstrated excellent pass protection abilities. We all know about the Quinn story.

 

Thomas still has questions? From who? Not his peers, NFL coaches, or scouts.

 

Wright is a step down from who? Give me a 3rd year CB who is playing better and developing better? The kid just needs to continue to produce. But there are many teams around the NFL that would love to have that kid at one of their starting CB spots.

 

Wimbley, sure he's on his last chance to show more of his rookie year and less of the other 3 seasons.

 

Edwards and Plax on the same career path? Didn't realize BE was out about town with his pistol and planning to shoot himself in the leg. The only things Plax and Edwards have in common is that they are both tall, athletic, and a bit of the WR pima donna going. The comparison ends there. Plax has shown consistancy over multiple years. Edwards has shown one year what he is capable and 3 other years of potential. But I can say without question any team in the NFL would take Edwards as a starting WR for them. And about half would take him as their #1 right now.

 

 

[pl4tinum]

I guess you like watching Jamal Lewis washed up a** at running back

 

Sorry bro, jamal hasn't washed his ass in years.

[RestinPeace]

Thomas still has questions? From who? Not his peers, NFL coaches, or scouts

 

"Sorry, but he hasn't put together more than 1 good season. The odds he gets back on track after the 2008 season, but we will see.

 

Wright is a step down from who? Give me a 3rd year CB who is playing better and developing better? The kid just needs to continue to produce. But there are many teams around the NFL that would love to have that kid at one of their starting CB spots.

 

"talent of a number 1 corner. I don't see it. Even if he does produce, he ain't a stud IMO.

 

 

Wimbley, sure he's on his last chance to show more of his rookie year and less of the other 3 seasons.

 

"Wimbley is Savage's Courtney Brown/Gerard Warren.

 

 

Edwards and Plax on the same career path? Didn't realize BE was out about town with his pistol and planning to shoot himself in the leg. The only things Plax and Edwards have in common is that they are both tall, athletic, and a bit of the WR pima donna going. The comparison ends there. Plax has shown consistancy over multiple years. Edwards has shown one year what he is capable and 3 other years of potential. But I can say without question any team in the NFL would take Edwards as a starting WR for them. And about half would take him as their #1 right now.

 

 

Please, Plax has 2 big years, a couple of decent years and then junk. Edwards is on the same career path. If so many teams wanted him as their numero uno, they would have traded for him last spring when the Browns outright put him on the block. The best they could get was a late 2nd and 5th rounder from the Giants. Hence, the NFL does not agree with your view of Edwards. They think he is a overrated pile of garbage.

 

 

 

[Guest Masters]

Thomas hasn't had just 1 good season. He had a good season last year. He didn't go to the pro bowl a second straight year because he's pretty. That's darn fine first two seasons in the league. Thomas has nothing to prove to anyone.

 

You didn't even address the Wright comments. Telling me he doesn't meet your standard or ever will, w/o even defining the standard or why he can't just leaves me flummoxed.

 

On Plax, other than last year, 05' and his rookie year, he has hardly had junk years.

 

[RestinPeace]

Thomas hasn't had just 1 good season. He had a good season last year. He didn't go to the pro bowl a second straight year because he's pretty. That's darn fine first two seasons in the league. Thomas has nothing to prove to anyone.

 

You didn't even address the Wright comments. Telling me he doesn't meet your standard or ever will, w/o even defining the standard or why he can't just leaves me flummoxed.

 

On Plax, other than last year, 05' and his rookie year, he has hardly had junk years.

 

Thomas fell apart last year. Hopefully it was from the collapse, but he wasn't that great all year like you want to believe. I did mention Wright, I don't think he is that talented. I do think he can become a "decent" starter, but that is about it.

 

You like Plax more than I do obviously. We all want to overrate players so we can win more quickly than we expect, but it rarely works out that way.

[Guest Masters]

Thomas fell apart last year. Hopefully it was from the collapse, but he wasn't that great all year like you want to believe. I did mention Wright, I don't think he is that talented. I do think he can become a "decent" starter, but that is about it.

 

You like Plax more than I do obviously. We all want to overrate players so we can win more quickly than we expect, but it rarely works out that way.

 

The sum of the offense fell apart last year not Thomas. Was last year as good as 2007, maybe not. But being voted to the Pro Bowl for a second consective year in only your 2nd year in the league, it's a pretty darn good year.

 

You mentioned Wright but avoided my questions to you on him, gave no bar or standard you want him to be, etc. You just seem to want to state he isn't good and can't be no matter what he does. How about a little detail on what you see wrong with his game, who as a 3rd year is better, etc.

 

I don't think I over rate Plax at all (pre-shooting himself). I am not saying I want CLE to go sign the guy. But Plaxico has been productive WR in the NFL for numerous years. BE has not. There is no comparing the guys.

[RestinPeace]

The sum of the offense fell apart last year not Thomas. Was last year as good as 2007, maybe not. But being voted to the Pro Bowl for a second consective year in only your 2nd year in the league, it's a pretty darn good year.

 

You mentioned Wright but avoided my questions to you on him, gave no bar or standard you want him to be, etc. You just seem to want to state he isn't good and can't be no matter what he does. How about a little detail on what you see wrong with his game, who as a 3rd year is better, etc.

 

I don't think I over rate Plax at all (pre-shooting himself). I am not saying I want CLE to go sign the guy. But Plaxico has been productive WR in the NFL for numerous years. BE has not. There is no comparing the guys.

 

Your stubborn refusal to accept reality is why I started drinking.........

 

Thomas's play DID fall apart. He was bad the last half of the year and that cannot be doubted. You can live in denial all you want, but facts are facts. I already mentioned my beliefs on Wright's ceiling.

 

10 35 454 13.0 45.4 33T 4 6 0 25 0

 

2007 New York Giants 16 70 1,025 14.6 64.1 60T 12 15 5 49 0

 

2006 New York Giants 15 63 988 15.7 65.9 55T 10 17 6 44 2

 

2005 New York Giants 16 76 1,214 16.0 75.9 78T 7 20 5 49 1

 

2004 Pittsburgh Steelers 11 35 698 19.9 63.5 48 5 13 4 31 1

 

2003 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 60 860 14.3 53.8 47 4 11 1 40 1

 

2002 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 78 1,325 17.0 82.8 62T 7 21 5 64 2

 

2001 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 66 1,008 15.3 63.0 43 6 18 2 48 1

 

2000 Pittsburgh Steelers 12 22 273

 

Here is Plax's career numbers. Can't you see Edwards following the mold? Plax's career hasn't been a total waste, but lets not overdo him. Edwards will probably fetch on the trade market what Plax fetched. Which the Giants offered.

 

So basically I am saying: We "probably" have a franchise LT, but probably not with OLB,CB or WR. QB most likely not either.

[Guest Masters]

Your stubborn refusal to accept reality is why I started drinking.........

 

Thomas's play DID fall apart. He was bad the last half of the year and that cannot be doubted. You can live in denial all you want, but facts are facts. I already mentioned my beliefs on Wright's ceiling.

 

10 35 454 13.0 45.4 33T 4 6 0 25 0

 

2007 New York Giants 16 70 1,025 14.6 64.1 60T 12 15 5 49 0

 

2006 New York Giants 15 63 988 15.7 65.9 55T 10 17 6 44 2

 

2005 New York Giants 16 76 1,214 16.0 75.9 78T 7 20 5 49 1

 

2004 Pittsburgh Steelers 11 35 698 19.9 63.5 48 5 13 4 31 1

 

2003 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 60 860 14.3 53.8 47 4 11 1 40 1

 

2002 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 78 1,325 17.0 82.8 62T 7 21 5 64 2

 

2001 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 66 1,008 15.3 63.0 43 6 18 2 48 1

 

2000 Pittsburgh Steelers 12 22 273

 

Here is Plax's career numbers. Can't you see Edwards following the mold? Plax's career hasn't been a total waste, but lets not overdo him. Edwards will probably fetch on the trade market what Plax fetched. Which the Giants offered.

 

So basically I am saying: We "probably" have a franchise LT, but probably not with OLB,CB or WR. QB most likely not either.

 

You will simply say they are good, not good, etc. with no factual reasons given is why I drink.

 

Show me where Thomas's play fell off. The whole offense collapsed the back end of last season and featured 2 guys later playing QB that have no business playing it in the NFL. Throw in Steinbach constantly having to help Fraley, and sure more sacks were given up. But Thomas's work at his specific position and what he is supposed to do was solid at his job. That is all I am saying. He was the 2nd best OT in the AFC last year. That might not be good enough for you, but I sure ain't going to knock it.

 

Here is what you have managed to say about Wright:

 

"Wright IMO is a stepdown than you want," to which I asked "Wright is a step down from who? Give me a 3rd year CB who is playing better and developing better? The kid just needs to continue to produce. But there are many teams around the NFL that would love to have that kid at one of their starting CB spots." None of which you have even touched on.

 

""talent of a number 1 corner. I don't see it. Even if he does produce, he ain't a stud IMO"

 

Yeah, I can see where you really touched on his ceiling

 

I am well aware of Plax's stats. Notice the number of years and how long Edwards has been playing. Then look at where they each played, and the situations there. Sure, if I want to stretch I can see Edwards going a route of Plax. Of course I could stretch and say Chris Carter, or any other receiver. The fact remains over half the NFL teams would take either of those guys as their number 1. None of which means I want either guy long term for my team.