Kiper's Big Board

[Guest Aloysius]

I found this on another board. Hopefully, one of the guys with ESPN Insider can confirm that it matches what's posted here.

 

Mel's Big Board

 

*Asterisk denotes underclassmen

 

1. *Sam Bradford, QB, Oklahoma: Has underrated arm and great feel for position and is super-accurate.

 

2. *Eric Berry, S, Tennessee: Ultimate playmaker, in the Ed Reed mold.

 

3. *Carlos Dunlap, DE, Florida: Physical tools are off the charts. Unlimited upside potential.

 

4. *Gerald McCoy, DT, Oklahoma: Disruptive force. Productive NFL career ahead.

 

5. Ndamukong Suh, DT, Nebraska: Explosive, relentless and consistent.

 

6. Taylor Mays, S, USC: LB size and CB speed.

 

7. *Jevan Snead, QB, Mississippi: Could have pro career similar to that of former Rebel Eli Manning.

 

8. *Dez Bryant, WR, Oklahoma St.: Dynamic receiver, punt returner and TD maker.

 

9. Trent Williams, OT, Oklahoma: Quality all-around bookend, moves from RT to LT this season.

 

10. *Arrelious Benn, WR, Illinois: Silky smooth, with excellent run-after-catch ability.

 

11. Colt McCoy, QB, Texas: Intelligent and resourceful. Can beat you with arm or legs.

 

12. Arthur Jones, DT, Syracuse: Lives in the opponent's backfield.

 

13. *Jonathan Dwyer, RB, Georgia Tech: Power back, adept at breaking off long runs.

 

14. Russell Okung, OT, Oklahoma St.: Athletic, strong and fiery blind-side pass protector.

 

15. Jermaine Gresham, TE, Oklahoma: Big-play TE, dynamic in the red zone.

 

16. Greg Hardy, DE, Mississippi: Difference-maker harassing the QB when at full strength.

 

17. Brandon Spikes, LB, Florida: Complete MLB, solid in all areas.

 

18. Jerry Hughes, DE, TCU: Prolific pass rusher who could be a 3-4 OLB.

 

19. Terrence Cody, DT, Alabama: Tremendous clogger along the interior.

 

20. Sean Weatherspoon, LB, Missouri: Makes plays all over the field.

 

21. *Jahvid Best, RB, California: Versatile, game-breaker supreme.

 

22. *Damian Williams, WR, USC: Polished receiver and extremely hard worker.

 

23. Sergio Kindle, LB, Texas: Production finally matched his talent last season.

 

24. Patrick Robinson, CB, Florida St.: Has the tools to excel at next level.

 

25. Brandon Graham, DE, Michigan: Awesome athlete and force off the edge.

[WPB Dawg Fan]

Yup...that is accurate.

[Jason J]

I found this on another board. Hopefully, one of the guys with ESPN Insider can confirm that it matches what's posted here.

 

I'd never get on the "next year" bandwagon... but if the Browns start out 1-7 this season, somebody's going to start weighing their shot at Carlos Dunlap vs. meaningless wins over Oakland or Jacksonville during the holidays.

 

Dunlap is a monster. For those who haven't paid much attention to him, think Richard Seymour with speed. Julius Peppers plus 20 lbs. (any other ridiculous superlatives to heap on a 20 year old kid?) The guy is a physical marvel. If he performs anywhere near his capability, and stays healthy, he'll be coveted by every defensive coordinator in the league - 3-4/4-3 no matter.

 

Unfortunately, you're going to have to have the #2 or #3 pick to get him.

 

But, I'd rather see the Browns perform well and see if they can get a Sergio Kindle, or Jahvid Best later in the first... why am I talking about the draft in August?

 

-jj

 

 

[Guest Aloysius]

Not a big of Dunlap, at least not yet. His physical tools are beyond impressive, but the guy doesn't appear comfortable rushing with his hand down. He seems to prefer standing up & running straight at a guard. That bulldozes college o-linemen, but he'll need to do more to be successful at the next level.

 

On a perhaps related note, he plays with too high a pad level. For a guy that big & athletic, he gets knocked back by fullbacks way too frequently.

 

He has #1 pick potential but could easily go the way of Calais Campbell & Michael Johnson.

[Skinny]

who?

[Guest Aloysius]

Forced to choose, with Titus Brown and Marcus Benard competing to start opposite Wimbley, I'd say we're looking for a 3-4 OLB in round one.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure that many of the top 3-4 OLB prospects will be able to pass Mangini's character standards.

 

Greg Hardy (#16) has an inconsistent motor and is hurt a lot. Right now, he's rehabbing a foot injury that plagued him last year and was re-agrravated when he got into a car accident this spring.

 

Sergio Kindle (#23) is a great athlete and a promising pass rusher, but he got busted for a DUI a few years ago. This summer, he was involved in a bizarre incident where he crashed his car into an apartment building, then didn't report it to the police until the next day. I think it's reasonable to assume that booze was involved.

 

Jerry Hughes (#18) could be the guy; I just haven't seen enough of him to have an opinion on him.

 

Brandon Graham (#25) is a guy I really like, but I'm not sure he's a 3-4 OLB. His stumpy build makes him look less athletic than he really is, but I still think he's less an "awesome athlete," more a great hustle player.

 

Here are some clips of Graham. He's #55, plays LE (opposite the right tackle).

 

 

[Guest Aloysius]

And of those DE's the prototypical 3-4 DE?

Gerald McCoy (#4), Ndamukong Suh (#5), and Arthur Jones (#11) are the main guys to look at.

 

McCoy's unbelievably quick off the snap. His best fit may be as a penetrating 4-3 d-tackle, but he should draw interest from 3-4 teams.

 

(McCoy's #93)

 

Suh may be a more natural fit as a 3-4 end. He's great at shedding blocks but needs to prove that he's more than a one year wonder. Before Bo Pellini came to Nebraska, "House of Spears" was a rather average player (some say he was playing through a knee injury).

 

(Suh's #93)

 

Jones is mz the pussy's hero. He was absolutely dominant during the ND-Syracuse game last year. He should be a 1st round pick, but he needs to prove he can do more as a pass rusher (only 5 career sacks).

[Guest Aloysius]

[Dunlap] has #1 pick potential but could easily go the way of Calais Campbell & Michael Johnson.

who?

Campbell and Johnson are athletic d-linemen who were projected to be top 5 picks but then fell in the draft when they didn't play up to their hype. Campbell dropped to the 2nd round of the '08 draft and is currently competing for a starting job with the Cardinals. Johnson was picked by the Bengals in the 3rd round of the '09 draft and has had a very impressive draft training camp, though he got pushed around a lot in their first preseason game.

 

To be fair, Dunlap's younger than both of those guys. If he doesn't impress this year, he could always stay in school another year.

[Guest Aloysius]

The college football season starts before the NFL does. Draft talk's simply an extension of what we obsess over on Saturdays.

 

And if you want to have a vaguely informed opinion when discussing this stuff in April, it helps to start familiarizing yourself with some of the top guys now.

[Geech]

I have no idea how you guys can talk draft when we are on the cusp of a brand new season.....not a knock or anything, I just find it fascinating how you draftniks go 365 at this shit....

 

It's always nice to have a list of guys to keep an eye on. It's a nice icing to the cake that is College Football. Then there are the guys who come out of (almost) nowhere, which adds some decorative toppings to the cake.

 

-Al

[Geech]

I can buy that, and understand where you're coming from. I guess I'm a bit stubborn against college football because it could be so great if they only put in a playoff system. Yet every year in december we have the same tv analysis's yelling at each other about strength of schedule and quality wins and why this team should get to go to this bowl and why that team is overrated and shouldn't be in that bowl.

 

A playoff system would reveal the pretenders real quick.

 

Well said, 'specta, but I can still enjoy the journey...even if the destination is flawed.

 

-Al

[samoth]

I'd never get on the "next year" bandwagon... but if the Browns start out 1-7 this season, somebody's going to start weighing their shot at Carlos Dunlap vs. meaningless wins over Oakland or Jacksonville during the holidays.

 

Dunlap is a monster. For those who haven't paid much attention to him, think Richard Seymour with speed. Julius Peppers plus 20 lbs. (any other ridiculous superlatives to heap on a 20 year old kid?) The guy is a physical marvel. If he performs anywhere near his capability, and stays healthy, he'll be coveted by every defensive coordinator in the league - 3-4/4-3 no matter.

 

Unfortunately, you're going to have to have the #2 or #3 pick to get him.

 

But, I'd rather see the Browns perform well and see if they can get a Sergio Kindle, or Jahvid Best later in the first... why am I talking about the draft in August?

 

-jj

 

So, he's Courtney Brown then? Amazing, game changing talent if he can just say healthy? You know that's not a good fit for Cleveland.

 

Also I noticed that Tim Tebow didn't crack the top 25, lol. FULLBACKS NEED LOVE TOO MEL.

[Guest mz.]

Jones is mz the pussy's hero. He was absolutely dominant during the ND-Syracuse game last year. He should be a 1st round pick, but he needs to prove he can do more as a pass rusher (only 5 career sacks).

 

Hero's a strong word. Most dominant SU defensive player since Dwight Freeney is more like it.

 

I'm really hoping he shows the ability to play 3-4 end in the NFL.

 

[Solon16]

For the fifth consecutive season : and for two decades.........We NEED a MLB worth a damn!!!

Hope we are in a position for...17. Brandon Spikes, LB, Florida: Complete MLB, solid in all areas.

OR

13. *Jonathan Dwyer, RB, Georgia Tech: Power back, adept at breaking off long runs.

 

and not #1 in the draft

[why cant we win]

wat about tim tebow

[steel88]

wat about tim tebow

 

He's not up there because he isnt first round talent

[Guest Aloysius]

Hero's a strong word. Most dominant SU defensive player since Dwight Freeney is more like it.

 

I'm really hoping he shows the ability to play 3-4 end in the NFL.

I need to watch more of Jones, but he seems like a good fit. Just needs to come back strong from that torn pectoral muscle.

[Greythan]

I want Mays.

[Jason J]

So, he's Courtney Brown then? Amazing, game changing talent if he can just say healthy? You know that's not a good fit for Cleveland.

 

Also I noticed that Tim Tebow didn't crack the top 25, lol. FULLBACKS NEED LOVE TOO MEL.

 

I didn't mean to imply that Dunlap has injury problems. He has none as far as I'm aware. I was only stating that if he performs to his capability, and manages to get through his junior year without suffering a serious injury, he's got top 3 pick potential.

 

-jj

[Jason J]

Not a big of Dunlap, at least not yet. His physical tools are beyond impressive, but the guy doesn't appear comfortable rushing with his hand down. He seems to prefer standing up & running straight at a guard. That bulldozes college o-linemen, but he'll need to do more to be successful at the next level.

 

On a perhaps related note, he plays with too high a pad level. For a guy that big & athletic, he gets knocked back by fullbacks way too frequently.

 

He has #1 pick potential but could easily go the way of Calais Campbell & Michael Johnson.

 

He's still got technique to learn to be sure. As a true sophomore, I don't expect too much. But he's got a ton of physical tools. He just turned 20 in February, and is still growing into his frame. He's listed anywhere from 6'6" to 6'8", depending on who you read. The reality of it seems to be right around 6'7". And he wears 290 lbs like a power forward. He's a killer in the weight room. Word is, his target weight may be 300-305. This kid has a ton of potential. But he has to mature his football skills.

 

Of course, I still like Campbell. He just had to learn how to work. He was so physically gifted, he didn't have to work at the U. And, I'm not sure anyone ever suggested it to him. That wasn't exactly a bastion of discipline.

 

I think Johnson's going to turn out to be OK. He's a guy with great tools, but to your point, never really put it together. I think he's going to be another lanky end. If he works his ass off he'll be Derrick Burgess. But I'm thinking he might end up nicked up frequently if he doesn't have the discipline to bulk up. It's hard to say though. He's a great 3rd/4th round pick. That's exactly the kind of chance you want to take.

 

But, I'm really interested to see Dunlap this season.

 

-jj

 

[ballpeen]

He's not up there because he isnt first round talent

 

That is where you are wrong.

 

He is first round talent. It just depends on if a team is willing to be the trend setter and scrap all this "WildDawg" stuff and just make it the base O.

 

Someone is going to do it sooner or later, win, and then everyone is going to be looking for qbs who can fit the new wave of the NFL.

 

Nobody can tell me Tebow isn't first round talent.

 

 

Did i make you happy Alo??

 

 

I do admit he might not be drafted there, and that is a shame. If he is there in round 2, the Browns better take him. He is WAY better than ANY qb we have on our team.

 

He is going to work out from under center a good deal this year just to satisfy the needs of the old school football thinkers.

 

The era of the drop back QB is about done. You might as well catch the wave early because in 4-5 years, colleges won't have any drop back QBs to recruit.

 

[Guest mz.]

The era of the drop back QB is about done.

 

Couldn't disagree more. I think the days of drafting shotgun/pistol/spread offense QB prospects in early rounds and trying to convert them to traditional dropback passers is what's dead.

 

[ballpeen]

Couldn't disagree more. I think the days of drafting shotgun/pistol/spread offense QB prospects in early rounds and trying to convert them to traditional dropback passers is what's dead.

 

 

Six or seven years from now one of us will be proven wrong.

 

 

 

[Greythan]

It will be you proven wrong 'peen.

 

The simple fact is that the NFL starting 11 on defenses are WAY too athletic for the "athletic" QB other than the rare exception.

 

Barring rule changes that change the complexity of the game, the QB's job remains passing the football. Plain and simple.

[Riffer X]

GAY BUCKEYE ALERT

 

Pryor will be what Peens is talking about, but I don't see it becoming commonplace. Pryor is a freak.

[ballpeen]

It will be you proven wrong 'peen.

 

The simple fact is that the NFL starting 11 on defenses are WAY too athletic for the "athletic" QB other than the rare exception.

 

Barring rule changes that change the complexity of the game, the QB's job remains passing the football. Plain and simple.

 

 

Hey Grey.......maybe so....but we aren't talking about not passing the ball.

 

Tebow passes the ball pretty darn well.

 

 

When you get down to it....passing out of a shotgun is a better system.

 

 

Look at it this way....on the games final play, do QB's up under center or in the gun??

 

I would assume that when a coach needs to make a passing play, he lines his QB in the position where he has the best chance for success.

 

 

 

A few of you may not be able to see it now.....but you will.

[Guest Aloysius]

I think Johnson's going to turn out to be OK. He's a guy with great tools, but to your point, never really put it together. I think he's going to be another lanky end. If he works his ass off he'll be Derrick Burgess. But I'm thinking he might end up nicked up frequently if he doesn't have the discipline to bulk up. It's hard to say though. He's a great 3rd/4th round pick. That's exactly the kind of chance you want to take.

In Cinci's case, they may have been better off getting their future center in the 3rd round (Antoine Caldwell) and a pass rusher in the 4th (Victor Butler?). But I agree about picking up great tools guys on Day 2 (or 3...whatever it is now). That said, you want to avoid "don't give a sh*t" guys, like Alan Branch.

 

I've read articles taking both sides on Michael Johnson: some say he's soft, others claim he was playing with a sports hernia last year. Unfortunately, it's hard to get to the truth on any of this stuff.

 

I guess we'll get an answer on the field over the next few years.

 

But, I'm really interested to see Dunlap this season.

Me too. Also looking forward to watching the other 5-6 guys on that defense who could be future 1st round picks.

[The Gipper]

He's not up there because he isnt first round talent

 

Right. I mean, in the past we have had these great college QBs whose game did not translate to the pros. Tommy Frazier and Eric Crouch from Nebraska come to mind.

And riddle me this: In the last 30 years here are the Quarterbacks who have won the Heisman Trophy:

Erich Crouch, Nebraska

Jason White, Oklahoma

Chris Weinke, FSU

Danny Wuerffel, Florida

Charlie White, FSU

Gino Torretta, Miami

Andre Ware, Houston

Matt Leinert, USC

Troy Smith, Ohio St.

Vinny Testaverde, Miami

Doug Flutie, Boston College

(plus Tebow and Bradford who are still in school)

 

The book is still out on Leinert and Smith who are now backups. All the others are now out of the game. Flutie had a somewhat spotty pro career (he was very underrated in fact).

The only quality pro of this bunch has been Vinny Interceptaverde....and he didn't get that nickname for nothing.

That means of course that the track record isn't good for Tebow and Bradford. Perhaps they will break out of the mold.

I personally think the Colt McCoy would be the prime QB candidate right now.

 

[Solon16]

Colt McCoy had a 76% completion percentage even with no real running game last year...unreal. He will be a GREAT Qb in the Nfl. I have no doubts at all. I've not said that since I called out Cutler a few years ago. McCoy will be better because his work ethic an attitude are impeccable. Dude is a Baller!

[The Gipper]

That is where you are wrong.

 

He is first round talent. It just depends on if a team is willing to be the trend setter and scrap all this "WildDawg" stuff and just make it the base O.

 

Someone is going to do it sooner or later, win, and then everyone is going to be looking for qbs who can fit the new wave of the NFL.

 

Nobody can tell me Tebow isn't first round talent.

 

 

Did i make you happy Alo??

 

 

I do admit he might not be drafted there, and that is a shame. If he is there in round 2, the Browns better take him. He is WAY better than ANY qb we have on our team.

 

He is going to work out from under center a good deal this year just to satisfy the needs of the old school football thinkers.

 

The era of the drop back QB is about done. You might as well catch the wave early because in 4-5 years, colleges won't have any drop back QBs to recruit.

 

I think that is highly speculative. Kiper, Scout.com, etc. etc. all these other services that have a decent track record don't rate him high on pro potential. I don't know if you are claiming that you know something they don't. Certainly they could be wrong. After all, we all go back to the proverbial "Tom Brady was only a 6th round pick" example to see where everyone missed on something. And of course the record of first round QB flops is legion. Still, where there is smoke their is fire.