kemosabiev Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Just thought it would be good for you guys to get an outsider's view on the Browns because you all seem in your own little C-Town world and too fantatical to see the big picture: The Browns are a 6 to 8 win team depending on injuries/breaks etc. and that is with a relatively soft out of division schedule. The QB situation is obviously a hot topic, but all you need to know is that the long list of GMs who passed on Brady Quinn and the two coaching staffs who have coached him are a lot smarter in all things football than you are. Outside of Cleveland, what I have heard is bits and pieces like "Brady Quinn involved in gay-bar-altercation, denies involvement... Brady Quinn punched in the weigh-room by teammate, denies wrongdoing" etc. Again, I don't follow every practice and blog, just trying to show you a different perspective and that is that BQ is a dink and dunk quarterback who is not a great leader and has not distinguished himself with all advantages in his favor (1st round pick, bad team so no reason not to start him etc). Derek Anderson obviously has an NFL arm, lousy mobility, and can throw 5 touchdowns one game and 4 INTs the next (I was surprised to see his INT % below 3% to be honest). As an NFL fan, I much prefer to see him play because his cannon arm is must-see tv entertainment-wise whether he is on or off, but he will never be a good or upper tier quarterback without a good running game and improved defense (not playing from behind all the time). The O-Line is average compared to other NFL teams and the running game is too. Mangini to replace Romeo was interesting as they both fell off of the same coaching tree. Again, average compared to the NFL at large. The D is the biggest problem as it seems the Browns are consistantly ranked in the bottom third of the league which will not do in trying to compete with the Ravens and Steelers (and the Bengals are no longer awful on defense) I appreciate the passion you all have, but you need to know that realistically this is a bad team and whoever ends up quarterbacking is going to look bad until the running game and D improve. And Braylon Edwards can be a good and bad game-changer as you are all aware. Young quarterbacks need time and Anderson has better NFL tools, but whoever wins the job is in for a long season. Which leads me to my question: how many wins are you realistically expecting this season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Which leads me to my question: how many wins are you realistically expecting this season? nineteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmac12 Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 * Week 1 - Browns vs. Vikings Loss * Week 2 - Browns @ Broncos Win * Week 3 - Browns @ Ravens Loss * Week 4 - Browns vs. Bengals Win * Week 5 - Browns @ Bills Win * Week 6 - Browns @ Steelers Loss * Week 7 - Browns vs. Packers Loss * Week 8 - Browns @ Bears Loss * Week 9 - BYE * Week 10 - Browns vs. Ravens Win * Week 11 - Browns @ Lions Win * Week 12 - Browns @ Bengals Win * Week 13 - Browns vs. Chargers Loss * Week 14 - Browns vs. Steelers Loss * Week 15 - Browns @ Chiefs Win * Week 16 - Browns vs. Raiders Win * Week 17 - Browns vs. Jaguars Win Without response to what you think of the Browns That is how I see the season going. 9 wins 7 losses Home Record 4 Wins 4 losses Road Record 5 Wins 3 losses. Miss the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadWombat Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 I agree with all of the points in the OP except for BQ being a dink and dunk QB with no leadership qualities, because he has proven that to not be true. Yes, I am agreeing that BQ has not distinguished himself with all advantages in his favor, that our defense is a huge problem (though we have seen improvements with Rob Ryan), and that realistically.... this is still a bad team with a lot of issues. Our conference kills us, and we need a hardcore defense to match Pittsburgh and Baltimore. Honestly I would be more than happy with 8 wins.... I am expecting 6-7, and desperately want to beat Big Gay Ben and the Steelers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geech Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 I think "6 to 8" wins is being generous. I see 4 wins. We should beat the Lions, Broncs, Raiders, and Bengals once. BUT!, we'll lose one of those games that we're "not supposed to" lose, which will be offset by winning one game that we're "not supposed to" win. You're right about our QBs. There's nothing special to see here...move along...The off the field stuff is rather negligible. It's not like Quinn is some kind of drunken 'roid rager. I think you're off about the running game and the D. the D will be somewhat improved, perhaps moving to the middle of the pack, while Jamal "One Yard Loss and a Cloud of Dust" Lewis will make the running game below average. OLine...average, on it's best day. The depth at WR should be the biggest improvement, but with no one to throw to them...who knows... -Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OconRecon Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 - 6-7 wins may be likely, but it's preseason, we're fans, and you can't be surprised we dream a little and add a win or two more to the total. - During the recent draft, teams were calling about Quinn, not DA - We want to see a first round draft choice take the place of a 32nd ranked QB of a 4-12 team. - Agree with most of what you've said, but as Lums recently pointed out, the Browns were picked dead last before the 10-6 season. There's always a team or two who breaks through and surprises. We're just hoping it's us. But, from the outside, it's easy to pick against us sitting in the AFC North. All good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBrowns Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 I'll be bookmarking this thread and I'll come check back in a few months.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegasdogg Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 The Browns are a 6 to 8 win team depending on injuries/breaks etc. and that is with a relatively soft out of division schedule. I see between 5-9 wins, so hard to disagree. just trying to show you a different perspective and that is that BQ is a dink and dunk quarterback who is not a great leader and has not distinguished himself with all advantages in his favor (1st round pick, bad team so no reason not to start him etc). Dink and dunk, no leadership? Based on what? Also, what full advantages? His competetitor who won the QB contest fell flat on his face, and when Brady had 2 days to prepare he put up 30 points and then got hurt. So really you don't know much from on outside perspective. His head coach picked the wrong guy. but he will never be a good or upper tier quarterback without a good running game and improved defense (not playing from behind all the time). Well no shit sherlock- take a look around the league and that applies to 31 other teams. Hello? This isn't rocket science. Flacco excelled and Ben R excelled in this division with this VERY FORMULA. It has nothing to do with DA or BQ needing that - every QB in this division needs that. Our team should be much more worried about stopping the run and running the ball than who suits up under center. The O-Line is average compared to other NFL teams and the running game is too. Our OL is average? Well compared to who? We have a pretty good OL, and yes I would say above avg. The D is the biggest problem as it seems the Browns are consistantly ranked in the bottom third of the league which will not do in trying to compete with the Ravens and Steelers (and the Bengals are no longer awful on defense) We'll agree on this. It is not in the same league as those two, and theykeep getting richer and richer. this is a bad team and whoever ends up quarterbacking is going to look bad until the running game and D improve. No this is not a bad team, it was a badly coached team. Ya'll said the same thning in 2007. But yes to the second part, we need to play better D and run the ball for either of these two guys to have a chance. But so does Kerry Collins, Eli Manning, McNabb, Flacco and on down the line (except maybe Manning, Brady, Brees, Warner and Ben). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Just thought it would be good for you guys to get an outsider's view on the Browns because you all seem in your own little C-Town world and too fanatical to see the big picture: Which leads me to my question: how many wins are you realistically expecting this season? Good post. A lot of us Browns fans have a hard time being unbiased, and rational about our Browns. I am not one of them however. I don't like either QB, I think our o-line is highly over-rated and our defense lacks talent at all 3 levels. Our special teams are among the best in the league. 2009 record? 6-10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestinPeace Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 The Browns have a good OL? I would like some of the dope you are smoking, probably Southern Mexican variety, the good brown stuff............ The Browns OL sucks at guard and is weak at RT. Bleh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestinPeace Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Good post. A lot of us Browns fans have a hard time being unbiased, and rational about our Browns. I am not one of them however. I don't like either QB, I think our o-line is highly over-rated and our defense lacks talent at all 3 levels. Our special teams are among the best in the league. 2009 record? 6-10 So true. It will take Mangini 5 years to get us to where we want ideally. But I suspect a "shocking" deep playoff run year 2 or 3 as the core gets in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 The Browns have a good OL? I would like some of the dope you are smoking, probably Southern Mexican variety, the good brown stuff............ The Browns OL sucks at guard and is weak at RT. Bleh. That is an assumption because they are still in preseason. Come November, maybe you can say that, but then again, we'll see. Steinbach is a solid guard and so is Womack, Hadnot and even Tucker. There is a problem at RT but St. Clair has been a starting tackle in this league, so pissing on him before the season starts shows that again you speak without thinking..............................which you seem to do alot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Just thought it would be good for you guys to get an outsider's view on the Browns because you all seem in your own little C-Town world and too fantatical to see the big picture Whoa...great start to your post. How could we NOT take your "analysis" seriously after you come in here immediately throwing barbs? You seem like a dick. PS Which piece-of-shit team are you a fan of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBrowns Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Some of the posters on this board amaze me.... How do the Browns finish second in the league in INT's in 2008 (while having no pass rushing) and have no talent in the secondary? I don't think the Browns are a Super Bowl team by any stretch, but to believe they are a 4-win team is laughable. Last years' out of sync and injury depleted squad won four games. Given the schedule, if the Browns are healthy, you should expect more than last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 probably Southern Mexican variety, the good brown stuff............ ?? ?? Brown, like after you smoke it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WPB Dawg Fan Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Just thought it would be good for you guys to get an outsider's view on the Browns because you all seem in your own little C-Town world and too fantatical to see the big picture: The Browns are a 6 to 8 win team depending on injuries/breaks etc. and that is with a relatively soft out of division schedule. I would say anywhere from 6 to 9 wins, most likely 7 or 8 The QB situation is obviously a hot topic, but all you need to know is that the long list of GMs who passed on Brady Quinn and the two coaching staffs who have coached him are a lot smarter in all things football than you are. Outside of Cleveland, what I have heard is bits and pieces like "Brady Quinn involved in gay-bar-altercation, denies involvement... Brady Quinn punched in the weigh-room by teammate, denies wrongdoing" etc. Again, I don't follow every practice and blog, just trying to show you a different perspective and that is that BQ is a dink and dunk quarterback who is not a great leader and has not distinguished himself with all advantages in his favor (1st round pick, bad team so no reason not to start him etc). Quinn is not a bomber...but I don't see dink and dunk either. Control QB is what I would term him. As for leadership, that is something the guy has in spades. Derek Anderson obviously has an NFL arm, lousy mobility, and can throw 5 touchdowns one game and 4 INTs the next (I was surprised to see his INT % below 3% to be honest). As an NFL fan, I much prefer to see him play because his cannon arm is must-see tv entertainment-wise whether he is on or off, but he will never be a good or upper tier quarterback without a good running game and improved defense (not playing from behind all the time). Funny thing about your 'not playing from behind' comment...we well documented that MOST of those cases were caused by DA's turnovers. He had more 1st half turnovers than any QB in the league...so much for blaming the run game...he is what killed our run game last year. Now...if he reduces those turnovers...yeah, I like his arm. The O-Line is average compared to other NFL teams and the running game is too. Average RUN OL, but excellent pass OL Mangini to replace Romeo was interesting as they both fell off of the same coaching tree. Again, average compared to the NFL at large. The D is the biggest problem as it seems the Browns are consistantly ranked in the bottom third of the league which will not do in trying to compete with the Ravens and Steelers (and the Bengals are no longer awful on defense)hopefully we actually have DL this year...so it may change a little. I appreciate the passion you all have, but you need to know that realistically this is a bad team and whoever ends up quarterbacking is going to look bad until the running game and D improve. And Braylon Edwards can be a good and bad game-changer as you are all aware. Young quarterbacks need time and Anderson has better NFL tools, but whoever wins the job is in for a long season. Which leads me to my question: how many wins are you realistically expecting this season? Just wait and see...competition is lesser this year...and the Browns actually addressed some needs. Should be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestinPeace Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 That is an assumption because they are still in preseason. Come November, maybe you can say that, but then again, we'll see. Steinbach is a solid guard and so is Womack, Hadnot and even Tucker. There is a problem at RT but St. Clair has been a starting tackle in this league, so pissing on him before the season starts shows that again you speak without thinking..............................which you seem to do alot. Mercy................you! Steinbach is a solid guard? Uh, yeah right. He was adequete in the more finesse system we had the last 2 years, but the guy is a sore thumb and getting old fast. Womack is fat and sucks. Always has always will. That pickup was just to get a body in here. Listen Ytown, we can live in fantasy, but this is rediculous. Just admit the line will be at best average and likely below average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Cheesedick Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 OBJECTIVE LOOK AT THE BROWNS??? On BROWNSBOARD???? (I can hear the chant, Ban him, ban him, ban him, ban him.) (Ready? all the cool kids, let's let him have it) You Idiot! Jerk! YOU DON'T KNOW FOOTBALL!!!@!!! You take your "objective look" at post elsewhere young man. We base success on positive articles prior to the season and claiming the Steelers cheat. SO THERE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 You take your "objective look" at post elsewhere young man. Yeah, because that xxxxtard came on here looking to be objective. Get over yourself, Soldier. You're not the "wise contrarian." You're a blowhard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Qwimbley Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Haha RIP I stand by my previous comments about your continued hatred for all things Browns. Everything about this team sucks. And Soldier, optimism? This Board is full of pure pessimism. There are a few of us that always try to look on the bright side because we're diehards. But were you even around after the Packers game? Or the entire offseason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeler SChick Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Hey - I'm optimistic. We play yinz twice, it don't get any better than that. Regards ..... an'at . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Double digit wins for the Browns. To hell with all the "objective" douchebags out there. I wear Scarlet and Gray colored glasses on Saturday and Brown and Orange glasses on Sunday...anything else would be uncivilized. It's almost football season. Go Browns! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kemosabiev Posted August 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Don't kill the messenger. The Browns, to people outside of Ohio, are just a non-factor this year. The same way you look at Oakland and Cincy as auto-wins, that is what most other teams in the league look at Cleveland as. Cribbs and the QB situation are the two most interesting thing about you guys and the bias towards Quinn is funny to an outsider. I sort of hope he doesn't get the job because then you will at least have some sort of psuedo-excuse and hope for the future and how if the coach would just play Quinn we would win kind of thing going for you. The NFL is better when the Browns are good, I wish you luck, but it is going to be a while. And it sounds like a lot of you are smart enough football fans to realize that this is the case and you will just enjoy each game as a fun few hours to root for the home team. As for the crazies/blinded homers, please respond with your projected number of wins for the Browns cause I am genuinely curious to hear what you believe. Realistically... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OconRecon Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 On a good day, I've seen fans on this board optomistically hope for 10, but .500 seems to be the hope if I had to average all of the off season predictions. Nobody wants to think about less than 6 wins, and mostly, we're hoping for .500. Personally if we're 6-6 at week 12, and thus at least in the playoff conversation, I'll be very happy. Of course people outside of Ohio count the Browns as a W. We're a 4-12 team, with a new head coach, who is considering starting the worst QB of '08 over a first round draft choice as our leader on offense. None of this is news. But, we're hoping we're one of those teams who surprise this year. This is no different than any other fan base would be in this situation who is hoping THIS is the year. We'll be a lunch pail team and will have to win on hard work and smart mistake free football - Mangini has no illusions about this. Thanks for the uninvited reality check, but I think we're fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Thanks Kemo...I appreciate views that don't come from behind rose colored glasses. Not that it matters to me, who do you root for?? Don't worry...I don't mind Steeler,Raven, or Bengals fans if they don't come to stir the crap, and I don't think you came here to do that. Thanks. To answer your question on wins...I think we could surprise and win more than the 6-8 games you mentioned, but a lot of things will have to go our way. The new guys will have to step up and a few of the vets who seem up and down need to be mostly up....maybe 9-10 wins, but the 6-8 you mention is more likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Just thought it would be good for you guys to get an outsider's view on the Browns because you all seem in your own little C-Town world and too fantatical to see the big picture: The Browns are a 6 to 8 win team depending on injuries/breaks etc. and that is with a relatively soft out of division schedule. The QB situation is obviously a hot topic, but all you need to know is that the long list of GMs who passed on Brady Quinn and the two coaching staffs who have coached him are a lot smarter in all things football than you are. Outside of Cleveland, what I have heard is bits and pieces like "Brady Quinn involved in gay-bar-altercation, denies involvement... Brady Quinn punched in the weigh-room by teammate, denies wrongdoing" etc. Again, I don't follow every practice and blog, just trying to show you a different perspective and that is that BQ is a dink and dunk quarterback who is not a great leader and has not distinguished himself with all advantages in his favor (1st round pick, bad team so no reason not to start him etc). Derek Anderson obviously has an NFL arm, lousy mobility, and can throw 5 touchdowns one game and 4 INTs the next (I was surprised to see his INT % below 3% to be honest). As an NFL fan, I much prefer to see him play because his cannon arm is must-see tv entertainment-wise whether he is on or off, but he will never be a good or upper tier quarterback without a good running game and improved defense (not playing from behind all the time). The O-Line is average compared to other NFL teams and the running game is too. Mangini to replace Romeo was interesting as they both fell off of the same coaching tree. Again, average compared to the NFL at large. The D is the biggest problem as it seems the Browns are consistantly ranked in the bottom third of the league which will not do in trying to compete with the Ravens and Steelers (and the Bengals are no longer awful on defense) I appreciate the passion you all have, but you need to know that realistically this is a bad team and whoever ends up quarterbacking is going to look bad until the running game and D improve. And Braylon Edwards can be a good and bad game-changer as you are all aware. Young quarterbacks need time and Anderson has better NFL tools, but whoever wins the job is in for a long season. Which leads me to my question: how many wins are you realistically expecting this season? Being a dink and dunk QB is not that bad a deal. Joe Montana was a dink and dunk QB, Otto Graham was a dink and dunk QB. Those are two of the winningest QBs in history. And BQ can air it out if he has to, though I agree it is not his forte. But, otherwise, yes, a team does need all of its components, defense, running game, special teams etc. to win. WE have had below average QBs win Super Bowls because the rest of the components of their team was so strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Cheesedick Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 On a good day, I've seen fans on this board optomistically hope for 10, but .500 seems to be the hope if I had to average all of the off season predictions. Nobody wants to think about less than 6 wins, and mostly, we're hoping for .500. Personally if we're 6-6 at week 12, and thus at least in the playoff conversation, I'll be very happy. Of course people outside of Ohio count the Browns as a W. We're a 4-12 team, with a new head coach, who is considering starting the worst QB of '08 over a first round draft choice as our leader on offense. None of this is news. But, we're hoping we're one of those teams who surprise this year. This is no different than any other fan base would be in this situation who is hoping THIS is the year. We'll be a lunch pail team and will have to win on hard work and smart mistake free football - Mangini has no illusions about this. Thanks for the uninvited reality check, but I think we're fine. I don't want the Browns to be the "Suprise" team. I want them to be expected to be good year after year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OconRecon Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Dink and dunk can equal west coast offense or a high percentage passing system. I have no problem with either. As Terry Pluto pointed out, 60% of NFL passes are 1-10 yards. We're just worried Anderson is another Testaverde. A cannon of an arm, but that's it. For DA, he tends to be immobile, poor with short passes, nervous in the 2-minute drill, frequently intercepted, more of a practice guy than a game day guy, not a strong leader, doesn't protect the ball, poor clock manager, etc, etc, etc. Joe Montana was Joe Montana because of the complete package, not because he could throw the 25-yard out with a little more zip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Don't kill the messenger. The Browns, to people outside of Ohio, are just a non-factor this year. The same way you look at Oakland and Cincy as auto-wins, that is what most other teams in the league look at Cleveland as. Cribbs and the QB situation are the two most interesting thing about you guys and the bias towards Quinn is funny to an outsider. I sort of hope he doesn't get the job because then you will at least have some sort of psuedo-excuse and hope for the future and how if the coach would just play Quinn we would win kind of thing going for you. The NFL is better when the Browns are good, I wish you luck, but it is going to be a while. And it sounds like a lot of you are smart enough football fans to realize that this is the case and you will just enjoy each game as a fun few hours to root for the home team. As for the crazies/blinded homers, please respond with your projected number of wins for the Browns cause I am genuinely curious to hear what you believe. Realistically... No one would argue that to outsiders the Browns would be a non-factor. You don't go 4-12 and get any respect. Though, like someone said, this team (and others) seem to do a roller coaster ride. Down one year and they get no respect the following year, but then go 10-6 and have 3-4 prime time games on your schedule and then bite the big ones in those games. (Do the Browns have any prime time games this coming season?) And, the fact is, Quinn is simply unproven. Nothing else. Not "funny". Not "clueless". Simply inexperienced. He has started 3 games in his career. As far as predicting the number of wins? Who cares. What I would predict means diddly. They will win the number they win and that is it. They might win some they should have lost (who could have foreseen them manhandling the defending champs Giants last year), and they may lose some they should have won. In the words of the French: Ca ne fait rien. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Don't kill the messenger. That cliche was brought about ostensibly for the delivering of bad NEWS. You, asshole, delivered an OPINION, so you get no such protection here. As for the crazies/blinded homers, please respond with your projected number of wins for the Browns cause I am genuinely curious to hear what you believe. Fcuk off. If you want to talk in a serious manner, next time, don't come in like a dickhead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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