What I Took From Last Night

[dencyguy]

1. Both quarterbacks played well. I thought they both played to their strengths nicely (Anderson seemed to throw more downfield, Quinn threw shorter), but they each did what the other guy does well too (Anderson threw some decent short passes, and Quinn's TD to Edwards was a perfect downfield strike). I dislike Mangini's gameplan of bringing each QB in, taking him out, then bringing him back in again, but both QBs seemed to handle it well. I'd give a slight edge to Quinn after the game, which means that unless he implodes in limited action next week, he should start on opening day.

 

2. There is much gnashing of the teeth about the pass defense, as there should be. To paraphrase about half of the comments on the defense from the Tavern last night, "Why is the pass defense so bad? I thought we got rid of RAC, so it should be better!" To which I would offer two points:

 

2a. Remember that the current coach used to be RAC's assistant. In general, you don't fire a guy, hire a guy who used to work for him, and expect immediate differences.

 

2b. From the outset I was worried about Rob Ryan as defensive coordinator. But he's going to blitz! But he's going to bring pressure!

 

Well, not so much. From 2004-2008, Ryan was DC of the Raiders. Here's how they did on defense in general, and against the pass in particular:

 

2008: 27th in the league in YPG, 10th in pass yards, 13th in sacks, 24th in PPG

2007: 22nd in YPG, 25th in pass yards, 28th in sacks, 26th in PPG

2006: 3rd in YPG, 1st in pass yards, 19th in sacks, 18th in PPG

2005: 27th in YPG, 18th in pass yards, 18th in sacks, 25th in PPG

2004: 30th in YPG, 30th in pass yards, 31st in sacks, 31st in PPG

 

Granted, the Raiders are an awful franchise, but with one exception in five years, Ryan's defenses have been middling at best against the pass and have sucked out loud when it comes to keeping the other team out of the end zone. However, now that he's come to a franchise known for its stability and top-notch talent acquisitions, things should turn around nicely.

 

3. The pass defense may have been awful, but the run defense should be stout, especially once Rogers comes back.

 

4. I like Davis, but I also think it's a mistake to see him as pushing for the starting job. Given his size and speed, he should make a good change-of-pace back, but I have a hard time seeing him taking the #1 RB's number of touches.

 

5. Cribbs still looked a bit raw at WR last night, but I liked what I saw from him every time he touched the ball. Give him a new contract already.

 

6. The offensive line continues to be a concern. Aside from the jailbreaks that happened more often than you would like to see, I wasn't crazy about the shotgun snaps either. A number of them took way too long to get to the QB.

 

7. After the game, I'm more hopeful going into the season, but I'd still be pretty surprised to see anything better than 8-8. Actually, I'd be pleasantly surprised to see 8-8, but as long as there is improvement, I'll be okay with it.

 

Dennis

[cambridgeho]

5. Cribbs still looked a bit raw at WR last night, but I liked what I saw from him every time he touched the ball. Give him a new contract already.

 

I hope we do, cuz that man has the heart and soul this team needs.

 

 

[DTBH]

6. The offensive line continues to be a concern. Aside from the jailbreaks that happened more often than you would like to see, I wasn't crazy about the shotgun snaps either. A number of them took way too long to get to the QB.

 

Dennis

 

I believe St. Clair is now the clear leader in the clubhouse in penalties and maybe in sacks allowed as well. Are we sure Tucker is out of the running?

 

[DeadWombat]

I agree with everything in the OP. You should have added something about how our RB situation is very tenuous. J-Lew went 10 yrs on 5 attempts against the Titans' 1st string D, I believe. Thank goodness we decided to adapt and bring in some screen plays.

[Flugel]

I believe St. Clair is now the clear leader in the clubhouse in penalties and maybe in sacks allowed as well. Are we sure Tucker is out of the running?

 

DTBH,

You know what though? I seriously didn't think St Clair had a bad game. Perhaps ALOT of that was from throwing the aggressive Tennessee pass rush off with alot of screen passes in the game plans. They've got some extremely talented edge rushers we seemed to neutralize enough to allow our passers to enjoy a good night. I found the RG spot to be a little more problematic than RT to be honest. Our pass protection had a passign grade while our run blocking needs a little work.

 

And Dennis,

Take a bow - that was a very insightful post! Thank you!

- Tom F.

[The Italian DawgPound]

I've only seen the highlights, so I can't give any comment at all. One thing I saw in the short report from NFL.com is that BQ threw too many times under pressure. OK, some of those calls were screen passes, but way too many were bad protection. Hope this will not be a trend for the season. In any case the kid showed poise and personality in those throws. Which is good.

Having said that, I'm happy DA played decently too, because we might need two QBs, who knows?, and it's in our interests having our backup QB, whoever will he be, in good shape.

GO BROWNS!!!!!!

[DeadWombat]

One thing I saw in the short report from NFL.com is that BQ threw too many times under pressure. OK, some of those calls were screen passes, but way too many were bad protection. Hope this will not be a trend for the season. In any case the kid showed poise and personality in those throws. Which is good.

GO BROWNS!!!!!!

 

 

Speaking of throwing under pressure: When we were in the end zone, Quinn was forced out of the pocket by a blitz and was running to the sidelines, and (if I remember correctly) about to be sacked when he thew it away. No receivers were open.

 

Hell, if that's not pressure, I don't know what is. The next play he connects with Bray-Bray for a TD. Props to Quinn for making the right decision.

[smalls1129]

I've only seen the highlights, so I can't give any comment at all. One thing I saw in the short report from NFL.com is that BQ threw too many times under pressure. OK, some of those calls were screen passes, but way too many were bad protection. Hope this will not be a trend for the season. In any case the kid showed poise and personality in those throws. Which is good.

Having said that, I'm happy DA played decently too, because we might need two QBs, who knows?, and it's in our interests having our backup QB, whoever will he be, in good shape.

GO BROWNS!!!!!!

 

 

I don't know what NFL.com saw, but I thought our pass protection was far superior to our run blocking. In any case all of those screens definitely seemed to 'aid' in the time that both QB's had to throw. There was only one play I remember where the QB really got blown up and on that play DA and the O-line seemed a bit off.

[mario]

We still have a problem getting scoring TD's though. So far the only QB to score in preseason against a first team defense is NO QB... just Jamal Lewis.

 

Quinn only grabbed 3 points against the first teamers, and scored w/ Braylon on the Tits 2nd/3rd team defense.

 

James Davis has been a bright spot.... but all his big runs have been ALA Harrisson. By saying that I mean its in 3rd and long, a passing situation where the D is playing the pass, and its been the 3rd string defense. There is no stat online, but when I did the math from what I can retrieve, Davis is only averaging 2.9yards with his very few carries against the 1st defense.

 

1 more preseason until the season starts, we will see how we can run/pass against a steady Vikings D.

[dencyguy]

One quibble I have with Quinn has to do with a couple of the throwaway passes--I know one was out of the end zone, but I saw a couple of others as well. Especially when he was flushed out of the pocket, I noticed a bit of a...not sure how to say it...hop in his throwing motion. On his TD pass to Edwards and most of his other throws, he kept his feet on the ground and got good velocity on his throws. When he did the hop, not so much.

 

Granted, he mostly did that when he was throwing the ball away, but it looks like a habit he'll need to break regardless of the situation. Throwing jump passes just doesn't work in the NFL, which is why (commence Gator-baiting in 5...4...3...2...1...) Tim Tebow is going to end up either at TE or in Canada.

 

Dennis

[Eastlakeian]

"Why is the pass defense so bad?

 

Talent

 

We have a lot more former assistants with successful teams then former players. I was never a fan of RAC's passive 2 gap 3-4. From what I have seen so far this preseason is when we do bring extra guy's more times than not, it has not been effective. To me our defense looks very slow compared to the other teams I have seen on NFL network. Most teams get more rush with four than we do bringing five and six. As a fan I really enjoy watching the attacking style of defense which seems to closer to what Ryan is trying.

[Gips]

1. Both quarterbacks played well. I thought they both played to their strengths nicely (Anderson seemed to throw more downfield, Quinn threw shorter), but they each did what the other guy does well too (Anderson threw some decent short passes, and Quinn's TD to Edwards was a perfect downfield strike). I dislike Mangini's gameplan of bringing each QB in, taking him out, then bringing him back in again, but both QBs seemed to handle it well. I'd give a slight edge to Quinn after the game, which means that unless he implodes in limited action next week, he should start on opening day.

 

2. There is much gnashing of the teeth about the pass defense, as there should be. To paraphrase about half of the comments on the defense from the Tavern last night, "Why is the pass defense so bad? I thought we got rid of RAC, so it should be better!" To which I would offer two points:

 

2a. Remember that the current coach used to be RAC's assistant. In general, you don't fire a guy, hire a guy who used to work for him, and expect immediate differences.

 

2b. From the outset I was worried about Rob Ryan as defensive coordinator. But he's going to blitz! But he's going to bring pressure!

 

Well, not so much. From 2004-2008, Ryan was DC of the Raiders. Here's how they did on defense in general, and against the pass in particular:

 

2008: 27th in the league in YPG, 10th in pass yards, 13th in sacks, 24th in PPG

2007: 22nd in YPG, 25th in pass yards, 28th in sacks, 26th in PPG

2006: 3rd in YPG, 1st in pass yards, 19th in sacks, 18th in PPG

2005: 27th in YPG, 18th in pass yards, 18th in sacks, 25th in PPG

2004: 30th in YPG, 30th in pass yards, 31st in sacks, 31st in PPG

 

Granted, the Raiders are an awful franchise, but with one exception in five years, Ryan's defenses have been middling at best against the pass and have sucked out loud when it comes to keeping the other team out of the end zone. However, now that he's come to a franchise known for its stability and top-notch talent acquisitions, things should turn around nicely.

 

3. The pass defense may have been awful, but the run defense should be stout, especially once Rogers comes back.

 

4. I like Davis, but I also think it's a mistake to see him as pushing for the starting job. Given his size and speed, he should make a good change-of-pace back, but I have a hard time seeing him taking the #1 RB's number of touches.

 

5. Cribbs still looked a bit raw at WR last night, but I liked what I saw from him every time he touched the ball. Give him a new contract already.

 

6. The offensive line continues to be a concern. Aside from the jailbreaks that happened more often than you would like to see, I wasn't crazy about the shotgun snaps either. A number of them took way too long to get to the QB.

 

7. After the game, I'm more hopeful going into the season, but I'd still be pretty surprised to see anything better than 8-8. Actually, I'd be pleasantly surprised to see 8-8, but as long as there is improvement, I'll be okay with it.

 

Dennis

I can agree on all of your take i was pleasantly suprized to see DA actually try to throw touch passes though he looks ackward almost funny doing it at least he is learning and BQ im not suprized to see him throwing with authority he always has...

 

And our defense has some work to do i suspect as the team settles in the defense will improve against both the run and the pass i can see progress in some areas...our oline and RB situation is the most concerning at this point its not a matter of if the offensive line is going to break down its a matter of when and we have no running game other than davis doing a cut and swim move through a non existant hole...

[Sez.EJ]

5. Cribbs still looked a bit raw at WR last night, but I liked what I saw from him every time he touched the ball. Give him a new contract already.

 

WRONG.. make him show he can play (and make playes) WR during the season.. THEN you pay him. That's what the bears did with Hester and that is ther RIGHT way to do it.

 

You don't pay a guy based upon preseason production!!!!

[Guest Masters]

One quibble I have with Quinn has to do with a couple of the throwaway passes--I know one was out of the end zone, but I saw a couple of others as well. Especially when he was flushed out of the pocket, I noticed a bit of a...not sure how to say it...hop in his throwing motion. On his TD pass to Edwards and most of his other throws, he kept his feet on the ground and got good velocity on his throws. When he did the hop, not so much.

 

Granted, he mostly did that when he was throwing the ball away, but it looks like a habit he'll need to break regardless of the situation. Throwing jump passes just doesn't work in the NFL, which is why (commence Gator-baiting in 5...4...3...2...1...) Tim Tebow is going to end up either at TE or in Canada.

 

Dennis

 

Quinn only missed 4 passes all night. One was the first pass of the game, which was just a bad pass and the second was the BE one you mentioned. I don't recall the other two, but even if both were throw away passes I'll take that every game.

[Guest Masters]

5. Cribbs still looked a bit raw at WR last night, but I liked what I saw from him every time he touched the ball. Give him a new contract already.

 

WRONG.. make him show he can play (and make playes) WR during the season.. THEN you pay him. That's what the bears did with Hester and that is ther RIGHT way to do it.

 

You don't pay a guy based upon preseason production!!!!

 

The Bears gave Hester his money last year before the season and he hadn't shown anything yet. His contract kind of started the works of Cribbs talking about wanting a new contract last year.

 

But I do agree that Cribbs has to show he is more than a special teams star before you give him the new contract.

[dencyguy]

Quinn only missed 4 passes all night. One was the first pass of the game, which was just a bad pass and the second was the BE one you mentioned. I don't recall the other two, but even if both were throw away passes I'll take that every game.

 

Don't get me wrong; as I said in the original post, I thought he won the day and the starting job with his performance last night. It's like a QB who has a strange motion--think Kerry Collins and his pronounced hitch when he was at PSU--he might throw for a ton of yards in a game, but something about the motion tells you it's going to be trouble down the line. Same with Quinn; as long as he keeps his feet on the ground, he'll do fine--if he did that on the throwaway in the first red zone drive, he'd put it through the wall on the other side of the end zone, which is perfectly fine with me. When he does that little hop, though, it takes away from the velocity of his throws, which can be a big problem. It just wasn't last night.

 

Dennis

One of the other misses was to Heiden in the end zone--Heiden had his man beat and Quinn missed him long.

[Guest Masters]

Don't get me wrong; as I said in the original post, I thought he won the day and the starting job with his performance last night. It's like a QB who has a strange motion--think Kerry Collins and his pronounced hitch when he was at PSU--he might throw for a ton of yards in a game, but something about the motion tells you it's going to be trouble down the line. Same with Quinn; as long as he keeps his feet on the ground, he'll do fine--if he did that on the throwaway in the first red zone drive, he'd put it through the wall on the other side of the end zone, which is perfectly fine with me. When he does that little hop, though, it takes away from the velocity of his throws, which can be a big problem. It just wasn't last night.

 

Dennis

One of the other misses was to Heiden in the end zone--Heiden had his man beat and Quinn missed him long.

 

I follow you now.

 

I do agree about the little hop throw of Quinn's. It's what got him picked in the GB game.

[Dan in Florida]

The Bears gave Hester his money last year before the season and he hadn't shown anything yet. His contract kind of started the works of Cribbs talking about wanting a new contract last year.

 

But I do agree that Cribbs has to show he is more than a special teams star before you give him the new contract.

 

 

Keep developing your receiving skills Josh, and the money will follow.

[Legacy Fan]

Granted, the Raiders are an awful franchise, but with one exception in five years, Ryan's defenses have been middling at best against the pass and have sucked out loud when it comes to keeping the other team out of the end zone. However, now that he's come to a franchise known for its stability and top-notch talent acquisitions, things should turn around nicely.

 

Ahh Dennis, you bastard.

 

In total agreement on that & Cribbs.

[The Italian DawgPound]

I don't know what NFL.com saw, but I thought our pass protection was far superior to our run blocking. In any case all of those screens definitely seemed to 'aid' in the time that both QB's had to throw. There was only one play I remember where the QB really got blown up and on that play DA and the O-line seemed a bit off.

I might easily have had the wrong impression because it was a 2 minutes video report of the game on NFL.com.

 

[Flugel]

But I do agree that Cribbs has to show he is more than a special teams star before you give him the new contract.

 

I equate this to the Brady Quinn situation. He can't show us what the staff won't enable him to do.

 

Go back to when our brass said we didn't have anyone that could fill Northcutt's shoes in the return game. Somebody gave Cribs a chance and worked with him exclusively at retruns. Turned out pretty good. The thign that made it possible was training the guy for the new position.

 

I've never seen a WR that gets thrown into the mix once or twice every 12 plays that's made that a memorable gig. I'm sure there's some that have done it but Cribbs looks like a guy that can master just about any challenge he's presented with. What intrigues me the most about seeing him get a REAL opportunity to play WR is the guy is his ability to shine in the open fields. We've been waiting for an x-factor to kill a zone blitz - Cribbs looks like our best answer to this type of aggressive D.

- Tom F.

[Flugel]

I might easily have had the wrong impression because it was a 2 minutes video report of the game on NFL.com.

 

 

ALL Qbs face pressure. Last year's SB Champs prolly had one of the worst pass protection lines I've ever seen on a post season team like that. You might have been seeing the pressure our QBs faced on the screen passes which invites the pressure by design so you can throw over it and have your line available to block the next wave of defenders. That was one of the better nights our collection of Qbs enjoyed. Even Bartel looked pretty efficient and he's 4th of the depth chart.

 

St Clair is prolly the least respected guy we throw out there. And all he has done is last 10 years in this league with Cleveland markign the 3rd team he'll start for. HOW can you suck and remain this serviceable? He's replacing Shaffer who's in Chicago and not about to start. Anyway, I think St Clair held his own in pass protection and I'm sure throwing Tenn's defense off with ther frequency of screens helped him as it did others on our line. That's freakin genious by the coaching staff IMO. I don't think our strength is going to be running Jamal Lewis on anyone this year. There's been some holes that he just can't get to any more. As I said in another thread, he takes 20 steps to move 2 yards forward. That's NOT the same guy that rushed for 2000 yards 5-6 years ago, which is why he was available in the first place. I can't pin all this on the oline. Jamal looked better on the screens as he should have.

- Tom F.

[Greythan]

Cribbs is a hot topic today and rightfully so.

 

He looks like a completely new receiver this year in terms of routes, hand position, and catching. I think this guy may be the best pure athlete on our team and probably one of the best overall athletes in the league.

 

What should scare the hell out of other teams is what Cribbs does to your defense AFTER catching the ball. If he can show enough proficiency as a receiver to justify the #2, how do you gameplan for Edwards/Cribbs? Both very big targets, Edwards is scary in terms of vertical threat, and Cribbs is scary if you simply let him get his hands on the ball in the open field.

 

Love the potential.

[choco]

amazing what a decent coach can get outta guys.

 

i have to admit, i didn't think RAC was THAT bad....but its evermore increasingly obvious.

[Bronx Cheer]

 

Agreed mostly with the original post, but I have two additional thoughts to add.

 

The o-line was pretty bad all game. The Titans were getting consistent pressure without bringing extra men or running any weird stunts.

 

Braylon yet again left his feet to breadbasket a perfect pass thrown at facemask level (the TD). Do we have coaches? Why the hell is he still doing this?