Tell Me You're Desperate for a Culture War without Telling Me

[MLD Woody]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MLD Woody]

When your livelihood / grift depends on keeping the base riled up though, I guess it makes sense...

[MLD Woody]

 

 

I think this one is my favorite

[VaporTrail]

1 hour ago, MLD Woody said:

When your livelihood / grift depends on keeping the base riled up though, I guess it makes sense...

How is this a grift? I literally read information from my hospital encouraging people to get their children vaccinated. It argued:
1 - It's important to get kids vaccinated so we can reach herd immunity
2 - The risk for myocarditis is small, and most cases are transient
3 - Kids can still get hospitalized from COVID

I looked at this and thought, "What the fuck?" Here's why:

This is data published one month ago. This shows myocarditis cases per million doses administered in males across the whole country. If you look particularly at the 12-15 and 16-17 age groups, you can see that the rates for the second Pfizer dose are high. Because I don't know the numbers in each cohort, I can't just take a simple average of 39.9 and 69.1 to get a comparison to the data below, but it's safe to assume that the average would be somewhere in between those two numbers. 

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-10-20-21/07-COVID-Su-508.pdf

This data shows weekly hospitalization rates per 100,000 kids since the pandemic got here and through August of this year. I'm interested in the dark, dotted blue line that represents the 12-17 year old age group. If you take the average of this line, you end up with a rate of somewhere between 0.7 and 1.5 hospitalizations per 100,000 kids. 

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7036e2.htm

If we take the data from the first table, and normalize it to the second table by making both denominators per 100,000, then you get somewhere between 3.99 and 6.91 cases of myocarditis per 100,000 vaccinations in males.  

I think it would be responsible for Big Bird to discuss these numbers. Without them, I'd argue that the parents getting the vaccine for their kids don't really have informed consent that is required for any medical procedure. Does that make me a grifter, too? 

[MLD Woody]

7 hours ago, VaporTrail said:

How is this a grift? I literally read information from my hospital encouraging people to get their children vaccinated. It argued:
1 - It's important to get kids vaccinated so we can reach herd immunity
2 - The risk for myocarditis is small, and most cases are transient
3 - Kids can still get hospitalized from COVID

I looked at this and thought, "What the fuck?" Here's why:

This is data published one month ago. This shows myocarditis cases per million doses administered in males across the whole country. If you look particularly at the 12-15 and 16-17 age groups, you can see that the rates for the second Pfizer dose are high. Because I don't know the numbers in each cohort, I can't just take a simple average of 39.9 and 69.1 to get a comparison to the data below, but it's safe to assume that the average would be somewhere in between those two numbers. 

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-10-20-21/07-COVID-Su-508.pdf

This data shows weekly hospitalization rates per 100,000 kids since the pandemic got here and through August of this year. I'm interested in the dark, dotted blue line that represents the 12-17 year old age group. If you take the average of this line, you end up with a rate of somewhere between 0.7 and 1.5 hospitalizations per 100,000 kids. 

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7036e2.htm

If we take the data from the first table, and normalize it to the second table by making both denominators per 100,000, then you get somewhere between 3.99 and 6.91 cases of myocarditis per 100,000 vaccinations in males.  

I think it would be responsible for Big Bird to discuss these numbers. Without them, I'd argue that the parents getting the vaccine for their kids don't really have informed consent that is required for any medical procedure. Does that make me a grifter, too? 

Are you trying to profit (get elected) off of people's fears and political beliefs by pushing inflammatory (no pun intended) statements that you may or may not believe? No? Then no, of course you're not a grifter. 

Is someone just sending a tweet that says "Big bird is a communist" a grifter? Sure, or they're crazy. Either way. 

 

 

Let's start with this. If you truly feel the info above is correct, and you feel kids are more at risk from post vaccine myocarditis than from covid itself, then why do you feel multiple groups are pro getting kids vaccinated? CDC, American Academy of Pediatrics, etc. 

[Westside Steve]

19 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Again, "Poor man wannq be rich, rich man wanna be king. And a king ain't satisfied tilly rules everything."

WSS

I might have put that in an appropriate thread.

[VaporTrail]

51 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

Are you trying to profit (get elected) off of people's fears and political beliefs by pushing inflammatory (no pun intended) statements that you may or may not believe? No? Then no, of course you're not a grifter. 

Is someone just sending a tweet that says "Big bird is a communist" a grifter? Sure, or they're crazy. Either way. 

 

 

Let's start with this. If you truly feel the info above is correct, and you feel kids are more at risk from post vaccine myocarditis than from covid itself, then why do you feel multiple groups are pro getting kids vaccinated? CDC, American Academy of Pediatrics, etc. 

Woody, this whole thread is no different than what you're complaining about. It's about slam dunking on those who have the audacity to question the conclusions that the medical experts are presenting. I disagree with the CDC and AAP's recommendations because they're downplaying the available data that would give people pause to get the vaccination. Their goals are at the population level, and that goal is herd immunity. As I've said in other threads, I think that it's a bad idea to increase risk of children to decrease risk of the old and fat. This is somehow a controversial viewpoint. You've demonstrated that your thread is not about data or science - you are completely capable of understanding the data I've presented, so is the CDC, so is the AAP, but they simply minimize what I've shown because it makes herd immunity tougher to attain. I'd be happy to see what data shows why my argument is wrong instead of an appeal to authority.

[MLD Woody]

27 minutes ago, VaporTrail said:

Woody, this whole thread is no different than what you're complaining about. It's about slam dunking on those who have the audacity to question the conclusions that the medical experts are presenting. I disagree with the CDC and AAP's recommendations because they're downplaying the available data that would give people pause to get the vaccination. Their goals are at the population level, and that goal is herd immunity. As I've said in other threads, I think that it's a bad idea to increase risk of children to decrease risk of the old and fat. This is somehow a controversial viewpoint. You've demonstrated that your thread is not about data or science - you are completely capable of understanding the data I've presented, so is the CDC, so is the AAP, but they simply minimize what I've shown because it makes herd immunity tougher to attain. I'd be happy to see what data shows why my argument is wrong instead of an appeal to authority.

This isn't just "questioning the results". It's fanning the flames to keep people angry. "bird bird is a communist" isn't someone thoughtfully disagreeing with the covid vaccine for children. And no, this thread wasn't started based on data or science. It was started to highlight the point I was making, that some are just trying to rile up their base. 

I do understand the data you posted and I did look at. I'm choosing to understand your "why" first, not the "what". 

So you think the AAP is knowingly putting children in more danger for the overall good of the population (namely those more at risk)?

I'll try to find some data later, or at least look through your source data more. I won't be able to find what I'd be looking for as easily as you given your background. I'd have to think some exists given the medical recommendations made by these groups. 

[bigbambo]

4 minutes ago, VaporTrail said:

Woody, this whole thread is no different than what you're complaining about. It's about slam dunking on those who have the audacity to question the conclusions that the medical experts are presenting. I disagree with the CDC and AAP's recommendations because they're downplaying the available data that would give people pause to get the vaccination. Their goals are at the population level, and that goal is herd immunity. As I've said in other threads, I think that it's a bad idea to increase risk of children to decrease risk of the old and fat. This is somehow a controversial viewpoint. You've demonstrated that your thread is not about data or science - you are completely capable of understanding the data I've presented, so is the CDC, so is the AAP, but they simply minimize what I've shown because it makes herd immunity tougher to attain. I'd be happy to see what data shows why my argument is wrong instead of an appeal to authority.

Told ya before.....you can't be talking this trash here...ya know they're smarter than you..  

These vax crazies can't justify why the Senators, their staff and the postal workers are exempt? 

It's been asked here before and they gloss over it like the sheep they are!  I think it deserves an explanation before moving one inch forward

Maybe they'll find that these vaccines can be useful to put worms back into cows cause they appear next to worthless for covid ....got my 10th booster nov 2

[bigbambo]

7 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

This isn't just "questioning the results". It's fanning the flames to keep people angry. "bird bird is a communist" isn't someone thoughtfully disagreeing with the covid vaccine for children. And no, this thread wasn't started based on data or science. It was started to highlight the point I was making, that some are just trying to rile up their base. 

I do understand the data you posted and I did look at. I'm choosing to understand your "why" first, not the "what". 

So you think the AAP is knowingly putting children in more danger for the overall good of the population (namely those more at risk)?

I'll try to find some data later, or at least look through your source data more. won't be able to find what I'd be looking for as easily as you given your background. II'd have to think some exists given the medical recommendations made by these groups. 

You got him shook up now......sounds just like Brandon......

keep assuming you fool.....

[Vambo]

12 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Update Big bird has reaction to vaccine!

 

[Canton Dawg]

12 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

When your livelihood / grift depends on keeping the base riled up though, I guess it makes sense...

For someone that bitches about about the Poly board in the football board….you sure do post a lot over here.

That makes you a grifter.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

23 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

For someone that bitches about about the Poly board in the football board….you sure do post a lot over here.

That makes you a grifter.

Yep.  I guess that makes him one of us morons.

[FairHooker11]

Tell Me You're Desperate for a Culture War without Telling Me

 

[VaporTrail]

On 11/9/2021 at 9:00 AM, MLD Woody said:

So you think the AAP is knowingly putting children in more danger for the overall good of the population (namely those more at risk)?

I'll try to find some data later, or at least look through your source data more. I won't be able to find what I'd be looking for as easily as you given your background. I'd have to think some exists given the medical recommendations made by these groups. 

I don't know what their motivation is. I suspect some of it is because this topic is so politicized, especially at the higher levels of the CDC. I suspect many members of AAP aren't even aware of this data I've presented. I've personally worked with pediatric doctors who emphasized that children can still be hospitalized from the virus, but didn't even discuss any of the documented side effects. If you have a better theory as to why this data is being minimized by a medical advocacy group whose first priority should be children, then I'm happy to hear it. 

On 11/9/2021 at 9:00 AM, MLD Woody said:

This isn't just "questioning the results". It's fanning the flames to keep people angry. "bird bird is a communist" isn't someone thoughtfully disagreeing with the covid vaccine for children.

People are rightfully angry about this. People under 18 literally can't consent to medical procedures, and now characters from kids shows are saying it's safe. This would be fine by me if Big Bird actually discussed the adverse effects too, but that doesn't happen. Tell me, would you be pissed if @SesameStreet only tweeted that 6 in 100,000 boys who get the vaccine will have myocarditis and nothing else about it?

[LogicIsForSquares]

Anecdote time (take it for what you will): Wife is a cardiac nurse and so are a good deal of her friends. They saw a boom of kids (super unusual to see kids) who were showing up with myocarditis of varying degrees of severity and it was directly after the vaccine for each kid. My wife is for the vaccine but it made her do an about face for it for kids who are far less likely to have many issues with Covid. 
 

As for why these large medical organizations would push it for kids, optimist view is they want to overcome public fear and prevent issues for the small sliver of kids who may have bad side effects to Covid. Pessimist view is Pfizer has a lot of money and every org/person can be swayed by money or political pressures from those who fund the operation and answer to politicians. 

[VaporTrail]

1 hour ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

Anecdote time (take it for what you will): Wife is a cardiac nurse and so are a good deal of her friends. They saw a boom of kids (super unusual to see kids) who were showing up with myocarditis of varying degrees of severity and it was directly after the vaccine for each kid. My wife is for the vaccine but it made her do an about face for it for kids who are far less likely to have many issues with Covid. 
 

As for why these large medical organizations would push it for kids, optimist view is they want to overcome public fear and prevent issues for the small sliver of kids who may have bad side effects to Covid. Pessimist view is Pfizer has a lot of money and every org/person can be swayed by money or political pressures from those who fund the operation and answer to politicians. 

I have seen similar anecdotes, and lots of these kids have cases severe enough to require long term follow up. The data I've presented seems to back up what I'm seeing with my eyes. I am struggling so much with the many of my colleagues who have the optimist view you bring up. They are putting herd immunity on a pedestal and minimizing that the vaccine can cause more harm than good in that pediatric population.