GuNNerGatSKi Posted November 22, 2021 Report Share Posted November 22, 2021 I invite you over to mi casa so I can completely tear your labrum, fracture your clavicle, and bust up your knee real good. Then I am going to strap football pads and a helmet on you, and send your stupid ass out on the field to get hit by NFL players. Then, and only then, will you have a relevant perspective as to what Baker is facing each and every snap. The absolute short sightedness, the complete loss of memory of what we have endured for 20 years at the most important position in football. TO BOO A GUY, DURING A GAME, WHO IS OUT THERE GIVING IT ALL! I am starting to run out of words. Here I'll list the names again: Tim Couch, 1999-2003 Tim Couch wasn’t the answer in Cleveland. | Getty Images Tim Couch didn’t start the very first game when the Browns returned to the NFL, but he was the future of the franchise on that day. Couch ended up with the Browns for five seasons, and then was out of the league before his 27th birthday. For his career, the Browns No. 1 overall pick back in 1999 recorded 64 touchdowns, 67 interceptions, and a 75.1 passer rating. In 2002, Couch led the team to its one and only playoff appearance since coming back to the NFL — but was unable to play in the game due to injury. Key stats: 59 starts, 64 TD, 67 INT, 75.1 rating 2. Ty Detmer, 1999 The quarterback that did start the opener in that 1999 season was Ty Detmer. In that game, Detmer was just 6-for-13 passing with an interception and 52 yards before Cleveland turned to Couch in the 43-0 loss to the Pittsburgh Steelers. Detmer had been brought in primarily as a mentor to the young Couch, and he served that purpose. He threw four touchdowns, two picks, and a 75.7 passer rating in his only season with the team. Key stats: 2 starts, 4 TD, 2 INT, 75.7 rating Next: A Super Bowl winner. 3. Doug Pederson, 2000 Doug Pederson played one season in Cleveland. | Getty Images Before he was known as the head coach of the Super Bowl champion Philadelphia Eagles, Doug Pederson was an NFL quarterback. He spent most of his career in Green Bay as Brett Favre’s backup, but joined the Browns in 2000 and made eight starts. Pederson recorded seven touchdowns, nine interceptions, and a 62.9 passer rating that year in Cleveland and then promptly returned to Green Bay to spend four more years backing up Favre. Key stats: 8 starts, 2 TD, 8 INT, 56.6 rating 4. Spergon Wynn, 2000 There isn’t a whole lot of story to tell with Spergon Wynn. He went to collage at Texas St. and was a sixth-round draft choice of the Browns in 2000, just one year after they drafted Couch No. 1 overall. But Wynn started just one game (he appeared in seven total) in a Browns uniform that year, a 48-0 loss to the Jacksonville Jaguars. He was released after the season and made a brief appearance with the Minnesota Vikings before disappearing into obscurity. Key stats: 1 start, 0 TD, 1 INT, 41.2 rating Next: The Browns’ only playoff starter. 5. Kelly Holcomb, 2002-2004 Kelly Holcomb of the Cleveland Browns looks down in frustration. | Andy Lyons/Getty Images Kelly Holcomb actually joined the Browns in 2001, appearing in one game but making zero starts. He primarily served as Couch’s backup during his time with the team, and actually started for the injured Couch in that one playoff game. Holcomb didn’t play poorly, going 26-for-43 passing with 429 passing yards, three touchdowns, and one interception. His career regular season marks with the team include 26 touchdowns, 21 interceptions, and an 83.3 passer rating. Key stats: 12 starts, 26 TD, 21 INT, 83.3 rating 6. Jeff Garcia, 2004 Former Pro Bowler Jeff Garcia was the highest profile player to come to the Browns ever back when he signed in 2004. Unfortunately, Garcia unable to lift the team from its extended doldrums. The 34-year-old recorded just 10 touchdowns, nine interceptions, and a 76.7 passer rating in his only season. But he wasn’t exactly washed up. Garcia left and spent five more seasons in the NFL, including another trip to the Pro Bowl in 2007 with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Key stats: 10 starts, 10 TD, 9 INT, 76.7 rating Next: One of the McCowns’. 7. Luke McCown, 2004 Quarterback Luke McCown of the Cleveland Browns is sacked by defensive end Chris Kelsay. | Rick Stewart/Getty Images Luke isn’t the only McCown on this list, but more on that later. He was a fourth-round draft pick of Cleveland back in 2004, and as a rookie he was able to make four starts with the team. McCown posted just four touchdowns, seven interceptions, and a 52.6 rating in that time. After briefly disappearing from the league, he did go on to have a decent NFL career. McCown played 10 years in the league as a backup quarterback before eventually retiring at the age of 34. Key stats: 4 starts, 4 TD, 7 INT, 52.6 rating 8. Trent Dilfer, 2005 Trent Dilfer is a fun trivia question, as the starting quarterback who led the Baltimore Ravens to a Super Bowl victory in 2000. He joined the Browns near the end of his career, starting 11 games in 2005. Dilfer threw for 11 touchdowns, 12 interceptions, and had a 76.9 passer rating to go along with a 4-7 record. He did not play at all the next season before wrapping up his career with the San Francisco 49ers in 2007. Key stats: 11 starts, 11 TD, 12 INT, 76.9 rating Next: A draft pick that fizzled out. 9. Charlie Frye, 2005-2007 Cleveland Browns rookie quarterback Charlie Frye threw for 198 yards and won his first NFL game with the Cleveland Browns. | Robert B. Stanton/NFLPhotoLibrary Charlie Frye was a third-round pick of the Browns in 2005, and you may be noticing a pattern by this point. The Browns drafted a lot of quarterbacks. Frye spent three years in Cleveland, totaling 19 starts. He ultimately compiled 14 touchdown passes, 23 picks, and a 71.1 rating with the team. Frye played two more years in the league as a backup before retiring at 28 years old in 2009. Key stats: 19 starts, 14 TD, 23 INT, 71.1 rating 10. Derek Anderson, 2006-2009 Although he was a journeyman for the majority of his career, Derek Anderson had one very solid season for the Browns. The 2007 season was Anderson’s first as the primary starter, and he finished the year with 29 touchdowns, 3,787 passing yards, and an 82.5 passer rating. He made the Pro Bowl and led Cleveland to a 10-6 record, although a tiebreaker cost them a chance at another trip to the playoffs. Like everyone that came before him, however, Anderson was not the long term solution for the Browns. Key stats: 34 starts, 46 TD, 45 INT, 69.7 rating Next: Another first round bust. 11. Brady Quinn, 2008-2009 Brady Quinn didn’t live up to the hype. | Andy Lyons/Getty Images How could Cleveland lose with Brady Quinn? He seemed like a sure thing, an excellent quarterback coming out of an even better program at Notre Dame. The Browns took him with the No. 22 overall pick in 2007, and the results over his two-year stint as a starter were mostly underwhelming: 10 touchdowns, nine interceptions, and a 66.8 passer rating. The team was 3-9 in his 12 starts, and Quinn played his last NFL game in 2012. Key stats: 12 starts, 10 TD, 9 INT, 66.8 rating 12. Ken Dorsey, 2008 Who can’t forget Ken Dorsey? This journeyman came to Cleveland in 2006 with little experience, having started 10 NFL games in the previous two seasons with the 49ers. He didn’t actually start a game until 2008, compiling zero touchdowns, seven interceptions, and a brutal 26.1 passer rating. That was bad enough that the former University of Miami star would never again appear in an NFL game. Key stats: 3 starts, 0 TD, 7 INT, 26.1 rating Next: A journeyman QB with a 2.8 passer rating. 13. Bruce Gradkowski, 2008 Bruce Gradkowski of the Cleveland Browns gets sacked by Andre Frazier of the Pittsburgh Steelers. | Gregory Shamus/Getty Images Bruce Gradkowski is yet another journeyman quarterback to make a start for the Browns. He started 11 games as a rookie with the Buccaneers in 2006, and then just a total of nine starts the rest of his career. In his one season in Cleveland, Gradkowski made just one start (two appearances) in the last game of the year against the Steelers. He was 5-for-16 passing with 18 yards and two interceptions, so it’s no wonder he didn’t get another starting job after his showcase. Key stats: 1 starts, 0 TD, 3 INT, 2.8 rating 14. Colt McCoy, 2010-2011 Colt McCoy was a third-round pick of the Browns in 2010 and ended up starting eight games as a rookie. He actually was the primary starter for the first two years of his career, but played his way out of the lineup by 2012. McCoy’s Cleveland career was one of constant battering behind a porous offensive line, making him the victim of 59 sacks in 24 total appearances. He had 21 touchdowns, 20 picks, and a 74.8 passer rating while there. Key stats: 21 starts, 21 TD, 20 INT, 74.8 rating Next: Another former Super Bowl quarterback. 15. Jake Delhomme, 2010 Jake Delhomme of the Cleveland Browns throws a first quarter pass. | Gregory Shamus/Getty Images Jake Delhomme is better remembered for his time (and Super Bowl appearance) with the Carolina Panthers, but he did suit up for the Browns late in his career. Delhomme was a bit banged up by the time he rolled into Cleveland, and he ended up making just four starts, throwing two touchdowns and four interceptions. The 35-year-old made his way to the Houston Texans the following year, but he made no starts and just one appearance before retiring. Key stats: 4 starts, 2 TD, 7 INT, 63.4 rating 16. Seneca Wallace, 2010-2011 Once the Seattle Seahawks had decided they were through with Seneca Wallace, the Cleveland Browns took a flyer on the 30-year-old. He played two uneventful seasons with the Browns, starting seven games and leading the team to a 1-6 record. It might be better to consult his receiving statistics, where Wallace was occasionally used effectively when split out wide. He caught two passes for 30 yards in his Browns career. As far as Wallace’s passing numbers with the Browns, however, he was perfectly average: six touchdowns, four picks, and a 76.6 passer rating. Key stats: 7 starts, 6 TD, 4 INT, 76.6 rating Next: Maybe the oldest true rookie ever? 17. Brandon Weeden, 2012-2013 Brandon Weeden speaks for all of us. | Jason Miller/Getty Images Maybe the oldest true rookie of all time at the age of 29, the prospect of Brandon Weeden catching on as a starting NFL quarterback always seemed dubious. But the Browns drafted him with the No. 22 pick in the first round anyway, and Weeden ended up starting just 20 games over two seasons in Cleveland. He threw 23 touchdowns, 26 interceptions, and posted a 71.8 rating. Also, there was this beauty. Key stats: 20 starts, 23 TD, 26 INT, 71.8 rating 18. Thad Lewis, 2012 Thad Lewis went undrafted and made his first appearance in the NFL at the age of 27, starting a game for the Browns in 2012. He actually didn’t play that poorly in the game, recording a touchdown, a pick, 204 yards passing, and an 83.3 passer rating. That earned Lewis a chance to hang on with the Buffalo Bills the following year, when he made five starts. But that was pretty much it for Lewis’ mostly-forgettable NFL career. Key stats: 1 starts, 1 TD, 1 INT, 83.3 rating Next: A backup that needed to start. 19. Jason Campbell, 2013 Jason Campbell of the Cleveland Browns prepares to throw against the New England Patriots. | Jim Rogash/Getty Images Jason Campbell was a solid quarterback in the NFL. He was good enough to be an unspectacular starter, or at the very least a great backup. He came to the Browns in the starter role at the age of 32 in 2013, but by that time Campbell was definitively a backup and nothing more. His Browns totals reflect that, as Campbell posted 11 touchdowns, eight interceptions, and a 76.9 passer rating in eight starts. Key stats: 8 starts, 11 TD, 8 INT, 76.9 rating 20. Brian Hoyer, 2013-2014 Brian Hoyer is a local guy, either loved or hated by Browns fans depending on their desire to see Johnny Football take the field. Hoyer started briefly in 2013 and then majority of 2014, ultimately recording 17 touchdowns, 16 interceptions, and a 77.6 passer rating. He left to play in Houston in 2015, backed up Jay Cutler in 2016, and went 0-6 in six starts with the 49ers in 2017. The 32-year-old signed a three-year deal with the Patriots in November of 2017. Key stats: 16 starts, 17 TD, 16 INT, 77.6 rating Next: Johnny Football. 21. Johnny Manziel, 2014-2015 Johnny Manziel didn’t work out in Cleveland. | Elsa/Getty Images Johnny Manziel (AKA Johnny Football) was an extremely polarizing college football player. Jerry Jones badly wanted to draft him, despite already having Tony Romo in his prime. Jones passed, and the Browns took Manziel with the 22nd pick in 2014. Manziel would unfortunately be just another in a long line of quarterback failures in Cleveland, going 2-6 in his eight starts with seven touchdowns, seven interceptions, and a 74.4 passer rating. Alcohol (and legal) problems have ended his career already, barring a comeback in 2018. Key stats: 8 starts, 7 TD, 7 INT, 74.4 rating 22. Connor Shaw, 2014 Who? Connor Shaw went undrafted and made one appearance in the NFL, starting a single game for the Cleveland Browns in 2014. The 23-year-old was not good, going 14-for-28 with 177 yards and an interception in a 20-10 loss to the Ravens. Assuming Shaw doesn’t come back and play in the NFL again — a possibility, as he’s only 26 — he will finish with a 55.2 passer rating. Key stats: 1 starts, 0 TD, 1 INT, 55.2 rating Next: The greatest in (modern) franchise history? 23. Josh McCown, 2015-2016 Josh McCown of the Cleveland Browns passes against the New York Jets. | Jeff Zelevansky/Getty Images Josh McCown, as sad as this statement is, may just be the best Browns quarterback (since their NFL return in 1999) to start at least 11 games for the team. He started eight games in 2015, posting a 93.3 passer rating with 2,109 yards, 12 touchdowns, and four interceptions. The 36-year-old wasn’t quite as good the following year, starting just three games for Cleveland. McCown finished his Browns career with a 1-10 record in his 11 starts but with an 85.7 rating. Key stats: 11 starts, 18 TD, 10 INT, 85.7 rating 24. Austin Davis, 2015 Austin Davis started eight games for the St. Louis Rams in 2014, compiling an 85.1 passer rating with 12 touchdowns to nine interceptions. So there was some optimism when the Browns picked him up as a backup heading into the 2015 season. The optimism was misplaced. Davis started two games for the Browns, throwing one touchdown, three interceptions, and putting up a 66.2 passer rating. In 2017, he was on the Seahawks’ roster as a backup to Russell Wilson. Key stats: 2 starts, 1 TD, 3 INT, 66.2 rating Next: An injury-plagued disappointment. 25. Robert Griffin III, 2016 Quarterback Robert Griffin III of the Cleveland Browns looks to pass against the Philadelphia Eagles. | Rich Schultz/Getty Images The signing of Robert Griffin III seemed doomed from the start in Cleveland. Although Griffin had been excellent as a rookie with the Washington Redskins, he was injury prone and had started to decline by the time the Browns picked him up. Griffin was healthy for just five games during his stint in Cleveland, going 1-4 with two touchdowns, three interceptions, and a 72.5 passer rating. He did not play in the 2017 season, and it’s unknown what the future holds for Griffin in the NFL. Key stats: 5 starts, 2 TD, 3 INT, 72.5 rating 26. Cody Kessler, 2016 With Griffin missing the bulk of the year, 2016 third-round draft pick Cody Kessler stepped in to start eight games for the 2016 Browns. He actually wasn’t bad at all, and in two seasons with the team has thrown six touchdowns with three interceptions and a 87.4 passer rating. Kessler is coming into the final two years of his four-year contract, and time will tell what his future looks like in the NFL. Key stats: 8 starts, 6 TD, 3 INT, 87.4 rating Next: An awful second-round pick. 28. DeShone Kizer, 2017 Quarterback DeShone Kizer of the Cleveland Browns passes. | Jason Miller/Getty Images DeShone Kizer was the second-round draft pick of the Browns in 2017, and he started 15 of the team’s 16 games in his rookie year. Kizer led the NFL with 22 interceptions, posting a putrid 60.5 passer rating. The experiment with Kizer has likely come to an end, being that Cleveland has traded for quarterback Tyrod Taylor and is expected to draft another QB with the No. 1 overall pick in 2018. Key stats: 15 starts, 11 TD, 22 INT, 60.5 rating 28. Kevin Hogan, 2017 The other quarterback that spent time under center in 2017 was Kevin Hogan. He started the one game that Kizer didn’t play, starting against the Houston Texans in Week 6. That was his last appearance of the season with the Browns, but he did have a solid season. Over his last two games, Hogan was 36-for-56 passing with three touchdowns and four interceptions. It’s unclear what, if any, future he has with the Browns. Key stats: 1 starts, 4 TD, 7 INT, 61.5 rating THIS LIST OMITS CASE KEENUM AND TYROD TAYLOR! ENOUGH SAID. 3 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted November 22, 2021 Report Share Posted November 22, 2021 Tim Couch - the stupid coaches - the offensive line was toast. They played so bad, I was convinced they deliberately let Couch get the absolute hell beaten out of him because they wanted the veteran whatshisname in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuNNerGatSKi Posted November 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2021 1 minute ago, calfoxwc said: Tim Couch - the stupid coaches - the offensive line was toast. They played so bad, I was convinced they deliberately let Couch get the absolute hell beaten out of him because they wanted the veteran whatshisname in there. To go even further than just the QB misery Cal, and you touched on it, the COACHES! HOLY SHIT! Let's list them too for everyone in their sorry state of sadness over where our team is this year, battling insurmountable injuries at our most important position groups: Chris Palmer Term: 1999-2000 Record: 5-27 Chris Palmer was tasked with leading the Browns in their return to the NFL. He didn’t have any pro head coaching experience, and went 2-14 and 3-13 in two seasons. He went on to serve as offensive coordinator for the Houston Texas and Tennessee Titans. Most recently, Palmer was an offensive assistant under Rex Ryan for the Buffalo Bills until 2016. A close up Head Coach Chris Palmer of the Cleveland Browns looking on during the Pre-Season game against the Green Bay Packers at Lambeau Field in Green Bay, Wisconsin. The Packers defeated the Browns 34-33. (Mandatory Credit: Jonathan Daniel /Allsport via Getty) Butch Davis Term: 2001-2004 Record: 24-34 Butch Davis resigned after nearly four years with the Browns. He dealt with a quarterback controversy when he started backup Kelly Holcomb for an injured Tim Couch, then kept Holcomb in the starting role. Davis is the only coach on this list to lead the Browns in a playoff game. Cleveland lost in the 2002 Wild Card game to the Steelers, 33-36. He later returned to coaching at the collegiate level, at North Carolina and FIU. Head coach Butch Davis of the Cleveland Browns yells during the game against the Cincinnati Bengals at Paul Brown Stadium on November 28, 2004 in Cincinnati, Ohio. The Bengals defeated the Browns 58-48. (Photo by Andy Lyons/Getty Images) Terry Robiskie Term: 2004 Record: 1-5 Terry Robiskie started his NFL career as a running back. He was on the Raiders and Redskins coaching staffs, before becoming the Browns wide receivers coach, then offensive coordinator. The Browns named him interim head coach following Butch Davis’ departure. Robiskie interviewed to be the permanent head coach, but the Browns went with Romeo Crennel. Robiskie remained on the Browns staff until 2007. For the next several seasons, he was the wide receivers coach for the Atlanta Falcons, where he was credited with helping to develop Julio Jones and Roddy White. He spent this season as running backs coach for the Jacksonville Jaguars. Terry Robiskie, head coach of the Cleveland Browns stands on the sidelines against the Buffalo Bills on December 12, 2004 at Ralph Wilson Stadium in Orchard Park, New York. The Bills defeated the Browns 37-7.(Photo by Rick Stewart/Getty Images) Romeo Crennel Term: 2005-2008 Record: 24-40 Romeo Crennel first worked for the Browns as defensive coordinator in 2000. The following season, he coached under Bill Belichick at the New England Patriots. Crennel returned to Cleveland as head coach in 2005. He led the Browns to a 10-6 record in 2007, their second winning-record since returning to the league in 1999. But the team failed to make the playoffs. Browns owner Randy Lerner fired him soon after getting ride of general manager Phil Savage. Crennel got another head coaching gig with the Kansas City Chiefs. Since 2018, he’s served as assistant coach and defensive coordinator of the Houston Texans. Head coach Romeo Crennel of the Cleveland Browns watches the action from the sidelines during the game against the Buffalo Bills at Ralph Wilson Stadium on November 17, 2008 in Orchard Park, New York. (Photo by: Rick Stewart/Getty Images) Eric Mangini Term: 2009-2010 Record: 10-22 Eric Mangini began his coaching career under Bill Belichick (Noticing a theme here?) at the Cleveland Browns. The two reunited in New England and then, in 2009, Mangini became the next head coach of the Browns. During his time in Cleveland, he handled a lengthy list of starting quarterbacks: Derek Anderson, Brady Quinn, Jake Delhomme, Seneca Wallace and Colt McCoy. The 2010 season was the year of running back Peyton Hillis. (What a time to be alive.) Like other coaches of Cleveland’s past, Mangini found other NFL jobs. He was a tight ends coach and defensive coordinator for the San Francisco 49ers. And don’t forget, he’s a three-time Super Bowl champion. Head coach Eric Mangini of the Cleveland Browns watches as his team takes on the Chicago Bears at Soldier Field on November 1, 2009 in Chicago, Illinois. The Bears defeated the Browns 30-6. (Photo by Jonathan Daniel/Getty Images) Pat Shurmur Term: 2011-2012 Record: 9-23 For those keeping track, the Browns had a 64-129 record until this point. And we’re about to pick up the pace. Pat Shurmur worked his way from college coaching to the NFL, and in 2011, then-Browns president Mike Holmgren named him the new head coach. Ahead of his second season, Cleveland selected running back Trent Richardson and quarterback Brandon Weeden in the first round of the 2012 NFL Draft. (Man, this was a odd time to be a Browns fan.) But that didn’t jumpstart the team’s offense. The Browns fired Shurmur and general manager Tom Heckert as they headed into the Jimmy Haslam era of ownership. Shurmur was recently fired by the New York Giants. Head Coach Pat Shurmur of the Cleveland Browns looks on during pre-game warm ups before playing the Oakland Raiders at Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum on December 2, 2012 in Oakland, California. (Photo by Thearon W. Henderson/Getty Images) Rob Chudzinski Term: 2013 Record: 4-12 It was one and done for this Ohio native. He was the Browns tight ends coach in 2004, and the offensive coordinator from 2007 to 2008. So it was a shock when the man who said he’s a, “Cleveland Brown to the core” was fired as head coach. He spent the following four seasons with the Indianapolis Colts. Head coach head coach Rob Chudzinski of the Cleveland Browns stands on the sidelines before the game against the Green Bay Packers at Lambeau Field on October 20, 2013 in Green Bay, Wisconsin. (Photo by Brian Kersey/Getty Images) Mike Pettine Term: 2014-2015 Record: 10-22 Mike Pettine was the defensive coordinator for the New York Jets, then the Buffalo Bills before coming to Cleveland. But the Browns continued their trend of finishing fourth in the AFC North. The Browns fired Pettine and general manager Ray Farmer, who drafted Johnny Manziel. This is marks the rise of Sashi Brown. Don’t worry about Pettine. He’s settled nicely into his current role as defensive coordinator of the Green Bay Packers. Head coach Mike Pettine of the Cleveland Browns watches from the sidelines during the first half against the Cincinnati Bengals at FirstEnergy Stadium on December 6, 2015 in Cleveland, Ohio. (Photo by Jason Miller/Getty Images) Hue Jackson Term: 2016-2018 Record: 3-36 On paper, Hue Jackson seemed like a decent choice to be the next head coach of the Cleveland Browns. He had an extensive career at the collegiate level before making the jump to the NFL as running backs coach with the Washington Redskins. He worked for years with the Cincinnati Bengals, helping along the wide receiver duo of Chad Johnson and T.J. Houshmanzadeh. As Browns head coach, the team had a winless season and a .088 winning percentage. Jackson was let go midseason. Things got a little heated when the Bengals brought him on as a special assistant to the head coach. Head coach Hue Jackson of the Cleveland Browns before the game against the Baltimore Ravens at FirstEnergy Stadium on October 7, 2018 in Cleveland, Ohio. (Photo by Jason Miller/Getty Images) Greg Williams Term: 2018 Record: 5-3 Greg Williams became infamous for his involvement in the New Orleans Saints bounty scandal. He even received an indefinite suspension from the league in 2012. He bounced around the NFL, from the Rams to the Titans to the Rams again, then ended up the defensive coordinator for the Browns in 2017. He became interim head coach after the Browns fired Hue Jackson and offensive coordinator Todd Haley. Williams’ 5-3 record doesn’t look too bad about now, does it? He’s the only one with an average over .500. Head coach Gregg Williams of the Cleveland Browns looks on prior to the game against the Kansas City Chiefs at FirstEnergy Stadium on November 4, 2018 in Cleveland, Ohio. (Photo by Kirk Irwin/Getty Images) Freddie Kitchens Term: 2019 Record: 6-10 It was easy to like Freddie Kitchens at first. Especially with lines like, “If you don’t wear brown and orange, you don’t matter.” He got us and Browns fans love a guy who gets us. But “getting us” only gets you so far. Kitchens worked his way up through the Arizona Cardinals organization before coming to Cleveland as the running backs coach. When the Browns axed Hue Jackson and Todd Haley, Kitchens got a big promotion to offensive coordinator. He also got a lot of credit for helping Baker Mayfield with his rookie season. So much credit that he was named head coach. Between the poor clock management, questionable play design and even worse play callings, it’s no surprise Kitchens was fired after one season. Head coach Freddie Kitchens of the Cleveland Browns looks on from the sidelines during the first half of the NFL football game against the Arizona Cardinals at State Farm Stadium on December 15, 2019 in Glendale, Arizona. (Photo by Ralph Freso/Getty Images) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted November 22, 2021 Report Share Posted November 22, 2021 oh, that is worse than bad. I think Stefanski is terrific, but not perfect. We have a real coach. But with injuries, covid, and a DC that gets on my nerves, yes, I really appreciate the dramatic improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted November 22, 2021 Report Share Posted November 22, 2021 1 minute ago, calfoxwc said: oh, that is worse than bad. I think Stefanski is terrific, but not perfect. We have a real coach. But with injuries, covid, and a DC that gets on my nerves, yes, I really appreciate the dramatic improvement. My big problem though is it looks like Stef is still learning on the job 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob806 Posted November 22, 2021 Report Share Posted November 22, 2021 I was at the game. The booing was directed at the offense in general, not Baker. Yeah, that's my OPINION. While I don't endorse booing the home team, I can see why it happens. The only time I was ever pissed at our fanbase is when some cheered the Tim Couch injury-totally uncalled for. We fans have waited an awfully long time for success. Seems to me that with the taste of success last year, (and the teasing of the 7-8-1 season followed by the 2019 dud) fans rightfully expected another step forward this season. Through 11 games, there's been glimpses of great team play, but overall just mediocrity @6-5. Yeah, they blew the Chiefs game and the refs handed the LAC a W. Fans forget that the Browns were blessed with a healthy offense last year virtually all season. The D, especially the secondary, got hit hard with injuries. You can boo all you want, but I don't think any team can survive the amount of injuries the Browns have incurred on offense this year. Does it look good now? Nope, BUT there's 6 games to go. Let's see how it plays out. Go Browns. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuNNerGatSKi Posted November 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2021 11 minutes ago, nickers said: My big problem though is it looks like Stef is still learning on the job Again, I feel you severely lack perspective my friend. I’ll take learning on the job over the washed up, irrelevant coaches and front offices just here for the paycheck, the journeyman veterans at QB that came here for the same, the “absolutely no one would make that pick at QB” EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DRAFT, the constant QB room drama, endless losing, and absolutely mindless tearing down of my team every two to three years. we have a football team. It is hurt, struggling, but my sweet Jesus IT IS NOT WHAT WE ENDURED FOR TWO DECADES! THATS MY QB! THATS MY COACH! GO BROWNS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuNNerGatSKi Posted November 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2021 10 minutes ago, Bob806 said: I was at the game. The booing was directed at the offense in general, not Baker. Yeah, that's my OPINION. While I don't endorse booing the home team, I can see why it happens. The only time I was ever pissed at our fanbase is when some cheered the Tim Couch injury-totally uncalled for. We fans have waited an awfully long time for success. Seems to me that with the taste of success last year, (and the teasing of the 7-8-1 season followed by the 2019 dud) fans rightfully expected another step forward this season. Through 11 games, there's been glimpses of great team play, but overall just mediocrity @6-5. Yeah, they blew the Chiefs game and the refs handed the LAC a W. Fans forget that the Browns were blessed with a healthy offense last year virtually all season. The D, especially the secondary, got hit hard with injuries. You can boo all you want, but I don't think any team can survive the amount of injuries the Browns have incurred on offense this year. Does it look good now? Nope, BUT there's 6 games to go. Let's see how it plays out. Go Browns. I am deeply opposed to explaining away our record, but I bold/underlined what I think is the two most important parts of this season. Two swings, one involving some luck and the other the refs not stealing the game from us, this banged up, bruised up, battered team is freakin 8-3. Food for thoughts, all I’m saying. Quote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjp28 Posted November 22, 2021 Report Share Posted November 22, 2021 Well those two lists certainly puts things in perspective..... and is something that we Cleveland BROWNS fans remember all to well. This has been a very hard season completely across the entire NFL . Excerpt from something I read today..... So who's your Super Bowl pairing ? ....... Jets versus Lions ? Technically, both are still alive! It could happen! (It won't happen.) You can see where all this is heading. You know exactly what team is lurking, ready to step through the wreckage and the burning embers of this season and claim victory. The New England [expletive] Patriots ! GO BROWNS ! We always keep fighting.....baby ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted November 22, 2021 Report Share Posted November 22, 2021 1 hour ago, GuNNerGatSKi said: Again, I feel you severely lack perspective my friend. I’ll take learning on the job over the washed up, irrelevant coaches and front offices just here for the paycheck, the journeyman veterans at QB that came here for the same, the “absolutely no one would make that pick at QB” EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DRAFT, the constant QB room drama, endless losing, and absolutely mindless tearing down of my team every two to three years. we have a football team. It is hurt, struggling, but my sweet Jesus IT IS NOT WHAT WE ENDURED FOR TWO DECADES! THATS MY QB! THATS MY COACH! GO BROWNS. Ive had enough coaches learning on the job... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted November 22, 2021 Report Share Posted November 22, 2021 For someone who supposedly the toughest man to ever suit up and play for the Browns, Baker Mayfield, and apparently his wife, have to have some of the thinnest skin ever. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted November 22, 2021 Report Share Posted November 22, 2021 Hey GuN, you didn't have to list all that crap. We friggin' lived through it. And I didn't like Baker walking off the field and not shaking anyone's hand....especially the opposing QB's hand. That's piss poor. It's too bad that he's banged up. But he went out onto the field to play. If that's as good as he can play right now because of injuries, then he shouldn't be out there and the 6 million $ backup should be playing. You know, the guy that actually TOOK a team to the brink of a super bowl appearance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuNNerGatSKi Posted November 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2021 Empty, thoughtless, jibber jabber from Dutch and Orion. I imagine you both distinctly resemble in voice the adults from Charlie Brown. In my opinion, your whining disqualifies you from enjoying our football team after so much suffering. Good day sirs *tips hat* 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted November 22, 2021 Report Share Posted November 22, 2021 10 minutes ago, GuNNerGatSKi said: Empty, thoughtless, jibber jabber from Dutch and Orion. I imagine you both distinctly resemble in voice the adults from Charlie Brown. In my opinion, your whining disqualifies you from enjoying our football team after so much suffering. Good day sirs *tips hat* You Baker fan boys are silly gooses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7moses7 Posted November 22, 2021 Report Share Posted November 22, 2021 Can I get a picture of Clipboard Jesus??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted November 23, 2021 Report Share Posted November 23, 2021 33 minutes ago, 7moses7 said: Can I get a picture of Clipboard Jesus??? 😎 🤣 Yeah ! I had to ... "" "' Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% 1D Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds Sk% NY/A ANY/A 4QC GWD AV 2005 22 GNB 12 3 0 9 16 56.3 65 0 0.0 1 6.3 3 16 4.1 1.3 7.2 21.7 39.8 3 28 15.8 1.95 -0.42 0 2006 23 GNB 12 2 0 6 15 40.0 46 0 0.0 0 0.0 2 16 3.1 3.1 7.7 23.0 48.2 7.9 3 18 16.7 1.56 1.56 0 2007 24 GNB 12 2 0 20 28 71.4 218 1 3.6 0 0.0 9 43 7.8 8.5 10.9 109.0 106.0 78.8 3 24 9.7 6.26 6.90 1 2008 25 GNB QB 12 16 16 6-10-0 341 536 63.6 4038 28 5.2 13 2.4 184 71 7.5 7.5 11.8 252.4 93.8 62.9 34 231 6.0 6.68 6.64 1 2 15 Mayfield's 4th season.. 10 games in Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% 1D Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds Sk% NY/A ANY/A 4QC GWD AV 2018 23 CLE QB 6 14 13 6-7-0 310 486 63.8 3725 27 5.6 14 2.9 171 71 7.7 7.5 12.0 266.1 93.7 51.2 25 173 4.9 6.95 6.77 3 4 10 2019 24 CLE QB 6 16 16 6-10-0 317 534 59.4 3827 22 4.1 21 3.9 179 89 7.2 6.2 12.1 239.2 78.8 54.4 40 285 7.0 6.17 5.29 1 1 11 2020 25 CLE QB 6 16 16 11-5-0 305 486 62.8 3563 26 5.3 8 1.6 188 75 7.3 7.7 11.7 222.7 95.9 72.2 26 162 5.1 6.64 6.96 2 2 14 2021 26 CLE qb 6 10 10 5-5-0 176 275 64.0 2166 10 3.6 6 2.2 100 71 7.9 7.6 12.3 216.6 91.3 37.2 27 166 8.9 6.62 6.39 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SdBacker80 Posted November 23, 2021 Report Share Posted November 23, 2021 We are too fixated on the past. Like a terrible ex, like a bad boss, like a painful dentist trip. Leave it in the past. Our QBs have been bad HCs have been equally bad. But We are allowed to have GREAT things. This was once a storied franchise…long ago but not too long ago they were making annual trips to the AFC championship game. Long question here but Can we acknowledge that Baker with help of others have pulled this franchise out of the dumpster but also acknowledge the limitations in his game and the sincere reservations that many should have about doubling down on an investment with Baker? 1 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted November 23, 2021 Report Share Posted November 23, 2021 where else would you post half of this? (hold your ears) 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATOM Posted November 23, 2021 Report Share Posted November 23, 2021 gotta put that in my pre game music selection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted November 23, 2021 Report Share Posted November 23, 2021 3 hours ago, GuNNerGatSKi said: you both distinctly resemble in voice the adults from Charlie Brown. I love peanuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted November 23, 2021 Report Share Posted November 23, 2021 3 hours ago, GuNNerGatSKi said: Empty, thoughtless, jibber jabber from Dutch and Orion. I imagine you both distinctly resemble in voice the adults from Charlie Brown. In my opinion, your whining disqualifies you from enjoying our football team after so much suffering. Good day sirs *tips hat* Glad you're happy with inconsistent mediocrity this season... Damn near anything is better than 0-16 right? Beat up Baker has posted a QBR averaged out to 54 in the last two games, with two touchdowns and three interceptions. That's third string backup territory Gunner. I mean- he had receivers wide open against the Lions, and couldn't even get the ball in the same area code a bunch of times. Starting with his first interception that he air mailed ten feet over Landry's head. I mean we're not allowed to point out Mayfield played like shit the last two weeks? He himself admitted as much. And FWIW, if he's not willing to admit those injuries are affecting his performance, and take a seat for a couple weeks, it's enough to get some of us pissed off. We have one of the better backup QBs in the NFL in Keenum- I suggest it's time to start thinking about using him- especially if Baker comes out Sunday night and continues to suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted November 23, 2021 Report Share Posted November 23, 2021 Fitting ? Plan B ? Michigan Man joining rant sessions again... BrownsTherapy @BrownsTherapy Why is it that it’s always @richeisen that has to be the one with Common Sense & has to wake up some of the #Browns Fan Base. #ThankYouRich Watch on Twitter 6:57 PM · Nov 22, 2021 who's calling Rich? click 'Watch on Twitter' #VictoryMonday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted November 23, 2021 Report Share Posted November 23, 2021 8 hours ago, hoorta said: We have one of the better backup QBs in the NFL in Keenum- I suggest it's time to start thinking about using him- I don’t think Keenum’s last performance VS the Pats was awe inspiring. What made you think he’s one of the better backups? Was it the 8 completions (6 yards per attempt) or the 3 sacks? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lodilobo Posted November 23, 2021 Report Share Posted November 23, 2021 From what I've seen of Keenum, I'm definitely in no rush to see him take over as qb, but...Mayfield is hurting himself right now, by trying to be a hero. Obviously, his injuries are affecting his play. He's not only prolonging his recovery, but he's also hurting the team, and possibly damaging his mental state and confidence. I would have no problem with Keenum taking over, and what ever happens, happens. I don't believe Mayfield is playing like crap just because he's a bad qb. I, personally, think he's a very good qb when healthy. Before the shoulder thing, he was one of the most accurate deep ball throwers. Now....well...I don't have to tell you, if you've been watching. It's pretty pathetic. I would much rather he just sit there and get better than embarrass himself every game. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted November 23, 2021 Report Share Posted November 23, 2021 Emotion and wish projection no matter how fervent doesn't make Baker good in 2021 or moving forward. I'm sure Baker's fanbois will continue to change the subject and make intentionally bad arguments [He's better than Kizer!] but that doesn't transmogrify Baker into some sort of top QB. Unless, of course, your standards for Good Cleveland QB are the rules of Calvinball -- you make them up as you go. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted November 23, 2021 Report Share Posted November 23, 2021 18 hours ago, Dutch Oven said: For someone who supposedly the toughest man to ever suit up and play for the Browns, Baker Mayfield, and apparently his wife, have to have some of the thinnest skin ever. Baker tells it like it is. No bullshit. My favorite Cleveland Brown in a long time. I follow his wife on Insta. She posts great stuff, she shares fan posts, tons of them. Everyone jumps on this particular one that was in the mix and runs with it, as, sadly our culture has become. I assure you she meant it as no swipe at the rest of the team. She has said so. She's the one that sees him get out of bed in the morning with a purple shoulder, a purple knee and a purple foot. She sees him struggling to get up and go to treatment, she sees how much pain he is in when he gets home. Family Members are protective. Are we really upset that his wife reposted something protective of her husband? It's not like his Daddy was posting videos of all the times he got hit and aimed it at his Oline and posted #FreeBaker and Baker stayed mum on it. What kind of asshole would do that to his teammates? Maybe some douchebag on the Rams ... That shit don't fly in Cleveland. Keep being awesome, Baker, we got your back. Most of us, anyway. Z 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted November 23, 2021 Report Share Posted November 23, 2021 18 hours ago, Orion said: Hey GuN, you didn't have to list all that crap. We friggin' lived through it. And I didn't like Baker walking off the field and not shaking anyone's hand....especially the opposing QB's hand. That's piss poor. It's too bad that he's banged up. But he went out onto the field to play. If that's as good as he can play right now because of injuries, then he shouldn't be out there and the 6 million $ backup should be playing. You know, the guy that actually TOOK a team to the brink of a super bowl appearance. We won a tough, ugly game, and our quarterback gutted it out, because it's his job. If you're not with him when he's suffering, don't be jumping back on his bandwagon when he catches fire like he did last year. I'm so impressed with him gutting out that win, that I'd re-sign him this week and tell the the media and the fickle fans to go fuck themselves. Z 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted November 23, 2021 Report Share Posted November 23, 2021 16 hours ago, SdBacker80 said: We are too fixated on the past. Like a terrible ex, like a bad boss, like a painful dentist trip. Leave it in the past. Our QBs have been bad HCs have been equally bad. But We are allowed to have GREAT things. This was once a storied franchise…long ago but not too long ago they were making annual trips to the AFC championship game. Long question here but Can we acknowledge that Baker with help of others have pulled this franchise out of the dumpster but also acknowledge the limitations in his game and the sincere reservations that many should have about doubling down on an investment with Baker? What limitations? Other than being hurt. This season got ugly right away with Wills going down in Week 1, then Hubbard, then Conklin. As a consequence, Baker has been knocked around like never before, suffered three painful injuries that would have benched a lesser man ... and THAT has limited him. But when he's healthy ... like last year ... what are his limitations? Please list them. Z 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted November 23, 2021 Report Share Posted November 23, 2021 13 hours ago, hoorta said: Glad you're happy with inconsistent mediocrity this season... Damn near anything is better than 0-16 right? Beat up Baker has posted a QBR averaged out to 54 in the last two games, with two touchdowns and three interceptions. That's third string backup territory Gunner. I mean- he had receivers wide open against the Lions, and couldn't even get the ball in the same area code a bunch of times. Starting with his first interception that he air mailed ten feet over Landry's head. I mean we're not allowed to point out Mayfield played like shit the last two weeks? He himself admitted as much. And FWIW, if he's not willing to admit those injuries are affecting his performance, and take a seat for a couple weeks, it's enough to get some of us pissed off. We have one of the better backup QBs in the NFL in Keenum- I suggest it's time to start thinking about using him- especially if Baker comes out Sunday night and continues to suck. We've won two out of three while he recovers, we're not going to make the switch now, or ever. I'm glad we are on the road this week, in Primetime, Baker is going to shine, because no one has been harder on his performance than himself, and no one knows how to make it better than himself. Then he gets two weeks off to rest his bruises, breaks and pains, and we continue our assault on the AFC North. This storyline is setting us up for glory, I'm glad I will be able to say I backed him 100% when he was suffering, because the rewards are tenfold when you believe in something or someone. Go get em, Brownies, we got them right where we want them! Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted November 23, 2021 Report Share Posted November 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Unsympathetic said: Emotion and wish projection no matter how fervent doesn't make Baker good in 2021 or moving forward. I'm sure Baker's fanbois will continue to change the subject and make intentionally bad arguments [He's better than Kizer!] but that doesn't transmogrify Baker into some sort of top QB. Unless, of course, your standards for Good Cleveland QB are the rules of Calvinball -- you make them up as you go. Did you miss last year, Bud? Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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