America Has a Gun Problem

[Westside Steve]

13 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

It absolutely will do something. It brings us more in line with other developed countries that have gun ownership. Increasing any barrier to entry helps. It helps with reducing school shootings, gang violence, suicides, etc. 

You posted scho shooting deaths during a covid year. Of course they're lower. The fact that you're even suggesting there's an "acceptable level" of school shootings is insane to me. 

Any law that can help reduce gun violence, either in a school or in the inner city, is a positive. The "whataboutism" with gang violence being used to make sure no meaningful change actually happens is just petty and purposefully misleading. Like how you can't want climate change laws if you aren't also constantly angry about the rain forest. Or how you can't advocate for civil rights here if you aren't constantly angry about places in the middle east attacking civil rights. 

Again, adding barriers to entry will help. Background checks. Wait times. Etc. 

I've made your argument in the parentheses many times. Posters here would have you believe that they could defend against the US Military because they have an AR. They'll cite Vietnam or Afghanistan and not even consider why those are irrelevant. Defending against an intruder is one thing, defending against a government military is gun lover fetishism. 

https://www.edweek.org/leadership/school-shootings-in-2019-how-many-and-where/2019/02

Covid is your excuse? Okay here's 2019.

I'm not going to bother researching every one of the deaths but I'm going to guess that the vast majority would not have been stopped by hey background check. Just to guess you can prove me wrong if you want and I'll accept it. And education in the Inner City? Sounds good. No doubt that will do the trick. Somebody just has to tell the Hoodrats that shooting opposing gang members or people in the street is bad. They were probably just unaware.

I'll look back over it later and see if there are any points I think are valid

WSS 

[calfoxwc]

5 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

It absolutely will do something. It brings us more in line with other developed countries that have gun ownership. Increasing any barrier to entry helps. It helps with reducing school shootings, gang violence, suicides, etc. 

You posted scho shooting deaths during a covid year. Of course they're lower. The fact that you're even suggesting there's an "acceptable level" of school shootings is insane to me. 

Any law that can help reduce gun violence, either in a school or in the inner city, is a positive. The "whataboutism" with gang violence being used to make sure no meaningful change actually happens is just petty and purposefully misleading. Like how you can't want climate change laws if you aren't also constantly angry about the rain forest. Or how you can't advocate for civil rights here if you aren't constantly angry about places in the middle east attacking civil rights. 

Again, adding barriers to entry will help. Background checks. Wait times. Etc. 

I've made your argument in the parentheses many times. Posters here would have you believe that they could defend against the US Military because they have an AR. They'll cite Vietnam or Afghanistan and not even consider why those are irrelevant. Defending against an intruder is one thing, defending against a government military is gun lover fetishism. 

of course, this is now getting silly. Our military is made up of us. Trust me, I was in the military. Do you think there is room in anyone's house for the entire army to come into our house and take our guns illegally? egad.

But let's indulge silliness for a sec.

	485,000 Regular Army personnel (2021)[5] 336,000 Army National Guard personnel (2021) 189,500 Army Reserve personnel (2021)[5] 1,005,725 total uniformed personnel

 

Now, there are about maybe......200 MILLION gun owners. (200 MILLION > 1 MILLION).

and btw, WE ALREADY HAVE BACKGROUND CHECKS.

It is ALREADY ILLEGAL to provide a gun to someone who is not allowed to have one. That is why I am fine with the parents being arrested for giving their kid a gun when he had significant psych problems. Enforce the laws we have. They are not tyrannical.

Again - Australians let themselves be disarmed. And Australians are being put into covid interment camps. etc etc etc.

***********************************************************

Australia's astonishing tyranny keeps growing - The ...

https://www.theburningplatform.com › 2021 › 09 › 28 › australias-astonishing-tyranny-keeps-growing

But for organizing protests against the Australian government's tyranny, Anthony Khallouf has been sentenced to several months in prison. His "crimes" include not complying with COVID decrees, and "encouraging the commission of crimes"— that is, sharing information about the time and location of protests.

Australian tyranny now under world microscope | Cairns News

https://cairnsnews.org › 2021 › 08 › 24 › australian-tyranny-now-under-world-microscope

Australian tyranny now under world microscope. Aug 24. Posted by Editor, cairnsnews. EXCLUSIVE FOOTAGE! Kids Dead After Jab in Australia, Eye-Popping Interview With Aussie Veteran - Rumble. Stew Peters of Live RED VOICE MEDIA (RVM) introduction to total government people control in Australia is damning enough, this is further substantiated by a ...

[MLD Woody]

31 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

Plenty is already being done. There is no magic twanger utopian cure for evil people. Why not start a thread about knive violence?

Current laws need to be enforced. Gun registration solves absolutely nothing, except it would make haters happy to "get" the other side.

and it would help a corrupt gov like the one we have now, intimidate gun owners, and help them disarm Americans. Evil has always been. Illegal behavior has always been. Criminals break laws, good folks do not. going after the good folks to try to stem criminal violence is just either stupid, or belligerently political. The idea that every gun owner needs a psychiatric permission to be allowed to own a gun... it isn't a perfect science - all it would take is one liberal evaluator to decide that nobody is allowed to have a gun because no humans have the mental ability to never use a gun illegally.

   Stupid laws that solve absolutely nothing seem to be all the rage with the left. Everything is political "got yas". ...."got ya" s. whatever.

There are around 10 times as many murders in the US caused by firearms than caused by knifes. Besides running down all of the other differences, this is a good place to start. 

Yes, I know there is no "magic cure". I've said that many times. Your desire to do nothing because there is no "magic cure" just proves the point I've been making. 

[MLD Woody]

24 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

https://www.edweek.org/leadership/school-shootings-in-2019-how-many-and-where/2019/02

Covid is your excuse? Okay here's 2019.

I'm not going to bother researching every one of the deaths but I'm going to guess that the vast majority would not have been stopped by hey background check. Just to guess you can prove me wrong if you want and I'll accept it. And education in the Inner City? Sounds good. No doubt that will do the trick. Somebody just has to tell the Hoodrats that shooting opposing gang members or people in the street is bad. They were probably just unaware.

I'll look back over it later and see if there are any points I think are valid

WSS 

It's not an excuse, it's a fact. You picked a bad year for comparison. Either ignorantly or maliciously.

Again, the argument you're making is that these school shootings are acceptable so there's nothing we need to do. Consider school shootings the straw that broke the camel's back. We have a gun violence and guj culture problem across the country, school shootings are just the tragic cherry on top. 

[calfoxwc]

7 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

There are around 10 times as many murders in the US caused by firearms than caused by knifes. Besides running down all of the other differences, this is a good place to start. 

Yes, I know there is no "magic cure". I've said that many times. Your desire to do nothing because there is no "magic cure" just proves the point I've been making. 

I said before - long guns. and as I showed before - 4 major cities account for a serious amount of those. I did not say "do nothing" at all.

I have always said "enforce current laws". You don't know guns, I get it. But the goofy notion that tyranny like in Australia would make you happy, I showed they have plenty of violent crime even after that socialist gov confiscated all their guns and destroyed them.

Tyrannical laws do NOT WORK.

*************************************

Australia's 1996 Gun Confiscation Didn't Work | National ...

https://www.nationalreview.com › 2015 › 10 › australia-gun-control-obama-america

Australia's 1996 Gun Confiscation Didn't Work - And it Wouldn't Work in America. W ithin hours of the gunfire falling silent on the campus of Umpqua Community College in Oregon Thursday

[Vambo]

9 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

It's not an excuse, it's a fact. You picked a bad year for comparison. Either ignorantly or maliciously.

Again, the argument you're making is that these school shootings are acceptable so there's nothing we need to do. Consider school shootings the straw that broke the camel's back. We have a gun violence and guj culture problem across the country, school shootings are just the tragic cherry on top. 

“98 percent of mass public shootings have occurred in places where guns are banned, just so you understand.”
— President Trump, speaking to the National Rifle Association, May 4

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/05/10/do-98-percent-of-mass-public-shootings-happen-in-gun-free-zones/

[Westside Steve]

24 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

It's not an excuse, it's a fact. You picked a bad year for comparison. Either ignorantly or maliciously.

Again, the argument you're making is that these school shootings are acceptable so there's nothing we need to do. Consider school shootings the straw that broke the camel's back. We have a gun violence and guj culture problem across the country, school shootings are just the tragic cherry on top. 

So I gave you numbers from the year before and the results were about the same. The number of people killed in schools is tiny. The number of people killed by assault weapons or any other kind of rifle is tiny. The number of shootings that would have been prevented by a background check which are already in place is tiny. But hey hey this is just a suspicion that I think if you guys got or even enforced the regulations you want and thought it didn't do any good you look foolish.

Yes the liberal media over reports school shootings Ad nauseam. And under reports hood rats. But if you are unable to admit that only harsh measures will make us like the more homogeneous societies get on the horn and call for a constitutional convention. Don't know what else to tell you. Frankly I doubt more free shit will do the job. You sound like a cigarette smoker bragging that he cut down from two packs to 1 pack and 9/10.

 

WSS 

[VaporTrail]

8 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

Any law that can help reduce gun violence, either in a school or in the inner city, is a positive. The "whataboutism" with gang violence being used to make sure no meaningful change actually happens is just petty and purposefully misleading. Like how you can't want climate change laws if you aren't also constantly angry about the rain forest. Or how you can't advocate for civil rights here if you aren't constantly angry about places in the middle east attacking civil rights. 

Critiquing the opinion you've presented is not "whataboutism." The vast majority of gun violence is urban homicide and rural/suburban suicide. When you post graphs that show gun crime in the US compared to other nations in the context of a recent school shooting, and in reducing each of these individual problems into "the gun problem," you've invited yourself to the pushback you've received. 

Quote

Again, adding barriers to entry will help. Background checks. Wait times. Etc. 

Can you give specifics as to how that will be helpful?

Quote

I've made your argument in the parentheses many times. Posters here would have you believe that they could defend against the US Military because they have an AR. They'll cite Vietnam or Afghanistan and not even consider why those are irrelevant. Defending against an intruder is one thing, defending against a government military is gun lover fetishism. 

If you're going to assert that those insurgencies are irrelevant, then I would like to hear your argument as to why. As well as the answer to these questions I asked earlier:

First, if you are for stricter regulations, then what segment of the American populace should have their 2nd amendment right revoked? Secondly, suppose that somehow those stricter regulations happen, what is your plan to keep these newly restricted people from getting their hands on one of the 500 million firearms circulating in the country?

[Westside Steve]

On 12/7/2021 at 11:13 AM, MLD Woody said:

You can take the school shooting angle out of it. Even then it seems insane to have Santa get a concealed carry permit. Who's next, Jesus?

Refresh my memory what happened to him?

But even you have to admit that there's some irony to this. Alec Baldwin spoke out often against the NRA and gun rights. I don't fault him for that though I don't necessarily agree. But many consider the glamorization of guns in moving pictures to be part of the problem. So a tragic accident is going to bite a guy like him in the ass.

https://www.newsweek.com/alec-baldwin-nra-guns-rights-activists-gun-control-halyna-hutchins-rust-1641671

WSS 

[Westside Steve]

9 hours ago, VaporTrail said:

Critiquing the opinion you've presented is not "whataboutism." The vast majority of gun violence is urban homicide and rural/suburban suicide. When you post graphs that show gun crime in the US compared to other nations in the context of a recent school shooting, and in reducing each of these individual problems into "the gun problem," you've invited yourself to the pushback you've received. 

Can you give specifics as to how that will be helpful?

If you're going to assert that those insurgencies are irrelevant, then I would like to hear your argument as to why. As well as the answer to these questions I asked earlier:

First, if you are for stricter regulations, then what segment of the American populace should have their 2nd amendment right revoked? Secondly, suppose that somehow those stricter regulations happen, what is your plan to keep these newly restricted people from getting their hands on one of the 500 million firearms circulating in the country?

A couple of side points; first there's a huge difference between murder and suicide. Number two, making handguns completely illegal (for example) will increase their value on the street. leading  to more incentive for the black market. Conversely legalizing opioids or crystal meth would take a lot of the risk out of it for those who manufacture smuggle and sell it.

WSS 

[Vambo]

21 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

There are around 10 times as many murders in the US caused by firearms than caused by knifes. Besides running down all of the other differences, this is a good place to start. 

Yes, I know there is no "magic cure". I've said that many times. Your desire to do nothing because there is no "magic cure" just proves the point I've been making. 

RED FLAGS MISSED

Lawsuit reveals online threats made by HS shooter before deadly rampage

[calfoxwc]

On 12/8/2021 at 9:24 PM, VaporTrail said:

Critiquing the opinion you've presented is not "whataboutism." The vast majority of gun violence is urban homicide and rural/suburban suicide. When you post graphs that show gun crime in the US compared to other nations in the context of a recent school shooting, and in reducing each of these individual problems into "the gun problem," you've invited yourself to the pushback you've received. 

Can you give specifics as to how that will be helpful?

If you're going to assert that those insurgencies are irrelevant, then I would like to hear your argument as to why. As well as the answer to these questions I asked earlier:

First, if you are for stricter regulations, then what segment of the American populace should have their 2nd amendment right revoked? Secondly, suppose that somehow those stricter regulations happen, what is your plan to keep these newly restricted people from getting their hands on one of the 500 million firearms circulating in the country?

Come on, Woody. Vapor asked some significantly valid questions. Legit answers? You ask questions, but never answer them.

[LogicIsForSquares]

Vapor had good points. Also, if the gun availability has always been there, how come we didn’t see school shootings and an explosion in inner city gun deaths before the last 20-30 years?

[mjp28]

On 12/7/2021 at 3:27 PM, nickers said:

Let me clue you in on something "BUTTHEAD" As long as there are Machinists and Blacksmiths... There'll be guns!...

Making fire arms is not all that hard to do...

I haven't looked yet but I'd bet there might be a  YouTube  on how to make a firearm rifle or pistol I know there are how tos on gunsmithing.

A friend of mine had one on reloading.

Now if they only had one on how to raise your nut 🥜 job kid not to be a school shooter....... there are a lot of them out there,. adult 🥜 ones too.

Sad commentary on our country today.  

 

[nickers]

9 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

I haven't looked yet but I'd bet there might be a  YouTube  on how to make a firearm rifle or pistol I know there are how tos on gunsmithing.

A friend of mine had one on reloading.

Now if they only had one on how to raise your nut 🥜 job kid not to be a school shooter....... there are a lot of them out there,. adult 🥜 ones too.

Sad commentary on our country today.  

 

Yeah... No ones excusing them by any means.. But fact of the matter is... Weapons have been around since the day of the neanderthals.. Weapons will continue to exist... It's part of our survival and defense mechanisms.. The big question I'm more concerned with.. is can we keep ourselves (Humanity) from blowing us up to smithereens via Nukes... I think thats the bigger challenge than whose got guns... Humanity always seems to always do it ass backwards...

[mjp28]

6 hours ago, nickers said:

Yeah... No ones excusing them by any means.. But fact of the matter is... Weapons have been around since the day of the neanderthals.. Weapons will continue to exist... It's part of our survival and defense mechanisms.. The big question I'm more concerned with.. is can we keep ourselves (Humanity) from blowing us up to smithereens via Nukes... I think thats the bigger challenge than whose got guns... Humanity always seems to always do it ass backwards...

The Palestinian vs Israeli decades old "war",.  Russia on the Ukrainian doorstep.  And others in every continent since sticks and stones and the metals on to the total war stage to the nuclear age and some crazy folks getting their hands on nukes.

Hopefully cooler heads will prevail on the world stage.

Back to home, I still want my home 🏡 protection available.  Nothing wrong with a 12 gauge Remington 870 or maybe an old 20 gauge shotgun for the wife, and I like my old revolvers but a little 9 mm semi isn't bad either.  And firearms training is great.

To each his own........ just don't come uninvited after dark !    

[nickers]

12 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

The Palestinian vs Israeli decades old "war",.  Russia on the Ukrainian doorstep.  And others in every continent since sticks and stones and the metals are to the total war stage to the nuclear age and some crazy folks getting their hands on nukes.

Hopefully cooler heads will prevail on the world stage.

Back to home, I still want my home 🏡 protection available.  Nothing wrong with a 12 gauge Remington 870 or maybe an old 20 gauge shotgun for the wife, and I like my old revolvers but a little 9 mm semi isn't bad either.  And firearms training is great.

To each his own........ just don't come uninvited after dark !    

I'm right there with ya Pal...

[DieHardBrownsFan]

[nickers]

8 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

Pure Evil SCUM! This mother fucker!

[calfoxwc]

23 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

On 12/8/2021 at 9:24 PM, VaporTrail said:

Critiquing the opinion you've presented is not "whataboutism." The vast majority of gun violence is urban homicide and rural/suburban suicide. When you post graphs that show gun crime in the US compared to other nations in the context of a recent school shooting, and in reducing each of these individual problems into "the gun problem," you've invited yourself to the pushback you've received. 

Can you give specifics as to how that will be helpful?

If you're going to assert that those insurgencies are irrelevant, then I would like to hear your argument as to why. As well as the answer to these questions I asked earlier:

First, if you are for stricter regulations, then what segment of the American populace should have their 2nd amendment right revoked? Secondly, suppose that somehow those stricter regulations happen, what is your plan to keep these newly restricted people from getting their hands on one of the 500 million firearms circulating in the country?

Come on, Woody. Vapor asked some significantly valid questions. Legit answers? You ask questions, but never answer them.

Still waiting Woody. Vapor asked you some legit questions.

[calfoxwc]

still waiting Woody., Why is it you only will ASK your dumb redirecting questions, but when you are asked VALID questions,

you run and hide?

[nickers]

As much as I hate guns... I support peoples right to bear them.. in this day and age.. the need for them is greater...

[Vambo]

40 minutes ago, nickers said:

As much as I hate guns... I support peoples right to bear them.. in this day and age.. the need for them is greater...

Guns are simply a tool, who and how they are used is the issue...there will always be a weapons issue people who wish to do evil will always find a way.

[Neo]

The first documented mass shooting in the United States interestingly took place in 1949. I would like to see a timeline from that point on how many took place and the frequency.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/story-first-mass-murder-us-history-180956927/

[DieHardBrownsFan]

 

[calfoxwc]

"This is my rifle..." LOL

looks like somebody limited me to fewer upvotes. lol

[ATOM]

i misplaced mine once that was a problem

found it in the bed of my truck

[VaporTrail]

9 hours ago, Neo said:

The first documented mass shooting in the United States interestingly took place in 1949. I would like to see a timeline from that point on how many took place and the frequency.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/story-first-mass-murder-us-history-180956927/

I would wager that it correlates to the expansion of mass media and the explosion of social media.

/edit - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States

[Browns149]

On 12/8/2021 at 9:24 PM, VaporTrail said:

Critiquing the opinion you've presented is not "whataboutism." The vast majority of gun violence is urban homicide and rural/suburban suicide. When you post graphs that show gun crime in the US compared to other nations in the context of a recent school shooting, and in reducing each of these individual problems into "the gun problem," you've invited yourself to the pushback you've received. 

Can you give specifics as to how that will be helpful?

If you're going to assert that those insurgencies are irrelevant, then I would like to hear your argument as to why. As well as the answer to these questions I asked earlier:

First, if you are for stricter regulations, then what segment of the American populace should have their 2nd amendment right revoked? Secondly, suppose that somehow those stricter regulations happen, what is your plan to keep these newly restricted people from getting their hands on one of the 500 million firearms circulating in the country?

It seems to me, no matter what kind of regulation or law is passed, or actually enforced,  people that want to get a gun will find a way to get one. 

I don’t know how you can stop a criminal from getting their hands on a gun. The laws on the books sure are not stopping them. And any new law isn’t going to stop them either
 

[Neo]

2 hours ago, Browns149 said:

It seems to me, no matter what kind of regulation or law is passed, or actually enforced,  people that want to get a gun will find a way to get one. 

I don’t know how you can stop a criminal from getting their hands on a gun. The laws on the books sure are not stopping them. And any new law isn’t going to stop them either
 

When you have people willing to mass murder people with guns then willing to turn the gun on themselves, what law can you pass that would punish/deter the shooter? When you have someone that is willing to die, you literally have nothing to hang over their head. 

 

2 hours ago, VaporTrail said:

I would wager that it correlates to the expansion of mass media and the explosion of social media.

/edit - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States

Mass shootings started well before mass media and mass social media. Free will, guns, and social media do not mix well. But once the genie was let out of the bottle, I'm afraid there is no going back. Once Columbine happened, that's when things really started to go downhill. Like I said before, get yourself armed, be aware of your surroundings, and stay out of trouble.