Baker v. Brisset

[ballpeen]

20 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

The list of quarterbacks under contract who have been able to somehow get traded, because someone else is actually interested in them, is a pretty impressive one. 

At least to me, this being the last year of his contract is a problem.

 

[Canton Dawg]

1 hour ago, ballpeen said:

At least to me, this being the last year of his contract is a problem.

 

There’s actually 3 problems.

1) Last year on a guaranteed contract.

2) Coming off shoulder surgery.

3) He played poorly in his last season.

[laiccm]

12 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

There’s actually 3 problems.

1) Last year on a guaranteed contract.

2) Coming off shoulder surgery.

3) He played poorly in his last season.

And he is way too loose with his mouth and social media...

[laiccm]

16 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

 

 

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

The list of quarterbacks under contract who have been able to somehow get traded, because someone else is actually interested in them, is a pretty impressive one. 

Exactly....if Baker was what his fans claim to be, teams would've snatched him up at the bargain price of 18 mill....they wouldn't risk another team getting him.

bottomline....these DCs and teams have seen the tape of him. Scouts have scouted him...experts, people with decades in the biz. They know he needs everything around him right to succeed any and he got too much mouth. 

[ballpeen]

9 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

There’s actually 3 problems.

1) Last year on a guaranteed contract.

2) Coming off shoulder surgery.

3) He played poorly in his last season.

I understand and can agree, but I think the contract is the biggest problem.  Most coaches think they can fix mechanical issues, and the shoulder is relatively straight forward, especially since it is the non throwing shoulder.  Since Baker has played well, it is a consistency problem and not a lack of ability problem.  

 

Not having a guy locked up for a few years is hard for a team to swallow.

[calfoxwc]

11 hours ago, hoorta said:

Still beating your gotta have a Bengal level WR stable drum eh Cal?  Mayfield had one of the best lines in the NFL, Watson was in the top ten in sacks three seasons playing behind a sieve. No wonder he wanted out of Houston . He had more sense than Tim Couch or David Carr getting beaten to a pulp.  BTW, Tom Brady and Julian Edelman say your full of it.  

How many times have NFL qb's completed most of their passes to their offensive linemen, eh, Whoorta? Never said have nothin about the wr's have to be like the Bengals. I've mentioned plenty of teams who understand that they have to give their qb weapons. Why don't you just have pipey downsies and watch wr's be drafted this next draft.

[laiccm]

1 minute ago, calfoxwc said:

How many times have NFL qb's completed most of their passes to their offensive linemen, eh, Whoorta? Never said have nothin about the wr's have to be like the Bengals. I've mentioned plenty of teams who understand that they have to give their qb weapons. Why don't you just have pipey downsies and watch wr's be drafted this next draft.

It's true a QB needs weapons. Baker had them...his line was top 5. top 5 rushing attack, obj,landry, hopper were all pro bowlers before they got here.Njoku is very solid...etc. We cant act like Baker was just surrounded by low level talent....

[nickers]

7 minutes ago, laiccm said:

It's true a QB needs weapons. Baker had them...his line was top 5. top 5 rushing attack, obj,landry, hopper were all pro bowlers before they got here.Njoku is very solid...etc. We cant act like Baker was just surrounded by low level talent....

And I ask... How many Super Bowls did Jim Kelly win... (With all of that talent).... a big.. FAT 0!

[laiccm]

4 minutes ago, nickers said:

And I ask... How many Super Bowls did Jim Kelly win... (With all of that talent).... a big.. FAT 0!

Not sure your point. Yes...he went to 4 Superbowl games and lost to some absolute historic teams...have we been to even 1? Is Kelly not in the HOF? Kosar had alot of talent around him as well but couldn't get past Elway to even make it 1 Superbowl

[calfoxwc]

32 minutes ago, laiccm said:

It's true a QB needs weapons. Baker had them...his line was top 5. top 5 rushing attack, obj,landry, hopper were all pro bowlers before they got here.Njoku is very solid...etc. We cant act like Baker was just surrounded by low level talent....

The oline - I don't consider that a weapon - it's throwing and catching the ball. Getting open. Landry had trouble getting open vs man to man - Hooper and Njoku - kept dropping passes, Higgins never was a get open kind of wr vs man to man - it's just that teams knew the Browns had the oline and rb's to dominate a game, so they went man to man with a weak wr crew, and went to stop the run.

So they limited the run offense, and wr's couldn't get open. Doug Dieken said as much more than once. I'm just done - frustrated. Playing Baker hurt was stupid-ass. If they wanted to move on, and get a qb more like Mahomes, fine - but sleazebucket at qb? 3 first round....

never mind. It's just me - I don't care that much about spending time watching the Browns games anymore. Have better things to do.

[nickers]

9 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

The oline - I don't consider that a weapon - it's throwing and catching the ball. Getting open. Landry had trouble getting open vs man to man - Hooper and Njoku - kept dropping passes, Higgins never was a get open kind of wr vs man to man - it's just that teams knew the Browns had the oline and rb's to dominate a game, so they went man to man with a weak wr crew, and went to stop the run.

So they limited the run offense, and wr's couldn't get open. Doug Dieken said as much more than once. I'm just done - frustrated. Playing Baker hurt was stupid-ass. If they wanted to move on, and get a qb more like Mahomes, fine - but sleazebucket at qb? 3 first round....

never mind. It's just me - I don't care that much about spending time watching the Browns games anymore. Have better things to do.

Then why are you still here , Cal?.. I get the frustration... I'm not happy about it either... I still root for the Browns...  I'm not happy with the direction either... DW better post no less than 350 yards passing per game and 3 tds per game... Anything less will be unacceptable...

[laiccm]

12 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

The oline - I don't consider that a weapon - it's throwing and catching the ball. Getting open. Landry had trouble getting open vs man to man - Hooper and Njoku - kept dropping passes, Higgins never was a get open kind of wr vs man to man - it's just that teams knew the Browns had the oline and rb's to dominate a game, so they went man to man with a weak wr crew, and went to stop the run.

So they limited the run offense, and wr's couldn't get open. Doug Dieken said as much more than once. I'm just done - frustrated. Playing Baker hurt was stupid-ass. If they wanted to move on, and get a qb more like Mahomes, fine - but sleazebucket at qb? 3 first round....

never mind. It's just me - I don't care that much about spending time watching the Browns games anymore. Have better things to do.

I beg to differ.......without a oline you aren't doing jack. Its part of your weaponry. Browns were middle of pack in drop passes and Baker was very, very inaccurate last season and I agree playing him hurt was dumb...But that's on Baker. He decided to not get surgery and ran to the press stating only HE can bench himself. HE was his own worse enemy....again.

Rather someone is a sleezebag or not...I personally dgaf...You think the Ravens fans care about Ray lewis double murder or Stoolers with Ben double rapes?  The Ratbirds had bottom receivers, line, running backs and yet their QB was in the MVP race cuz he was top 10 in passing and rushing yards....they were 7-3 before falling apart due to injuries...

Just win

The Browns rushing attack was ranked no.4

 

Enjoy your Sundays

 

[SdBacker80]

4 hours ago, ballpeen said:

I understand and can agree, but I think the contract is the biggest problem.  Most coaches think they can fix machinal issues, and the shoulder is relatively straight forward, especially since it is the non throwing shoulder.  Since Baker has played well, it is a consistency problem and not a lack of ability problem.  

 

Not having a guy locked up for a few years is hard for a team to swallow.

I think the contract is a positive.  There is no guaranteed money after the next season.  If it doesn’t work - it is a failed experiment with no lasting financial impact.   Washington is in a similar situation with Wentz if he falls on his face again - there is no financial impact beyond the season. 
 

Baker’s 18M this year probably on point with the market and the numbers he’s put up and it’s not going to cripple a teams ability to surround him.

If a team fixes him they extend him on their terms.  They won’t lose him if he works well for them. And you get a fair market 18M deal this year. 
 

The pause going on right now…1. teams are waiting to see if the draft falls in their favor to add to the QB room with their respective teams.  2. And truthfully some teams may see what the Browns assembled for him and they don’t think they can do the same and maybe question if he works out for them. 3. His mouth and attitude now I think maybe half of the NFL teams are turned off by that alone. They can’t tolerate a mouth and average talent. 

[Tour2ma]

On 3/29/2022 at 11:46 AM, laiccm said:

ok. I think Baker is better as well...but I don't think by that much. 13-20 mill a year more? Brisset is a little under 5 mill

Cap is a factor to be sure, but all you really want out of a backup is 1 or 2 wins as a fill-in.

Add that Brissett's size and tools are much closer to Deshon's, playbook won't change much when he steps in. Pretty much was the case with Baker and Case.

https://stathead.com/tiny/ZqnEB

Neither is my dream RPO QB, but both are a step in that direction, The direction the league is going.

[laiccm]

14 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Cap is a factor to be sure, but all you really want out of a backup is 1 or 2 wins as a fill-in.

Add that Brissett's size and tools are much closer to Deshon's, playbook won't change much when he steps in. Pretty much was the case with Baker and Case.

https://stathead.com/tiny/ZqnEB

Neither is my dream RPO QB, but both are a step in that direction, The direction the league is going.

yes sir

[calfoxwc]

4 hours ago, nickers said:

Then why are you still here , Cal?.. I get the frustration... I'm not happy about it either... I still root for the Browns...  I'm not happy with the direction either... DW better post no less than 350 yards passing per game and 3 tds per game... Anything less will be unacceptable...

wasn't anything good on TV....Wife is helping a best friend with her new house.....just hopped on. I just said I'll have better things to do than watch the Browns on TV anymore. Total frustration. They could have signed a new starting FA qb that wasn't a sleazebucket, and could have had the next three first round draft picks to help build their team into a superbowl champion.

  

[nickers]

3 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

wasn't anything good on TV....Wife is helping a best friend with her new house.....just hopped on. I just said I'll have better things to do than watch the Browns on TV anymore. Total frustration. They could have signed a new starting FA qb that wasn't a sleazebucket, and could have had the next three first round draft picks to help build their team into a superbowl champion.

  

Well two Grand Juries refused to indict him on anything... But I'm always a believer that where there's smoke.. There's a fire somewhere... it'll be interesting to see how the civil suits shake out... That said.. I still root for the team.. Not the asshole(s) wearing the jersey... Like I said... This goof has a LOT to prove to me before I can even think of buying in... This dude quit on his team... And tanked the Texans.. I mean hell..Jim Brown was a sleazeball..Kareem Hunt is no angel... This is what the world and the league is... full of Pedos, Sex Offenders and drug addicts..  Welcome to Soddam and Gommorah!

[laiccm]

38 minutes ago, nickers said:

Well two Grand Juries refused to indict him on anything... But I'm always a believer that where there's smoke.. There's a fire somewhere... it'll be interesting to see how the civil suits shake out... That said.. I still root for the team.. Not the asshole(s) wearing the jersey... Like I said... This goof has a LOT to prove to me before I can even think of buying in... This dude quit on his team... And tanked the Texans.. I mean hell..Jim Brown was a sleazeball..Kareem Hunt is no angel... This is what the world and the league is... full of Pedos, Sex Offenders and drug addicts..  Welcome to Soddam and Gommorah!

If they wouodve signed anyone but Watsom then you just watching a losing team with no chance in the AFC. Picks are now dang near meaningless with a gunner at QB

Watson quit on the Texans as much as Hopkins and JJ Watt did and to say he tanked them instead of Bill Obrien and their pos owner is just comical. 

The point is many Cleveland fans think they personally know famous,  wealthy athletes and you don't. That's why Cleveland fans always like guys like Couch, Manziel, McCoy, Baker....etc mediocre talented QBs.They personally like these guys...but It's not a social club...its professional sports. POS people have flooded sports since its inception. Nothing new

 It's on Cleveland fan to stop being so niave and personal

[calfoxwc]

14 minutes ago, nickers said:

Well two Grand Juries refused to indict him on anything... But I'm always a believer that where there's smoke.. There's a fire somewhere... it'll be interesting to see how the civil suits shake out... That said.. I still root for the team.. Not the asshole(s) wearing the jersey... Like I said... This goof has a LOT to prove to me before I can even think of buying in... This dude quit on his team... And tanked the Texans.. I mean hell..Jim Brown was a sleazeball..Kareem Hunt is no angel... This is what the world and the league is... full of Pedos, Sex Offenders and drug addicts..  Welcome to Soddam and Gommorah!

yep - but Jim Brown was never my favorite, but I was so much younger then. My Dad and I didn't respect him at all.

My favorite rb, I've always said, was Leroy Kelly. There's a great guy fans can look up to. I wasn't sure about Hunt - but his second chance was where he really showed up. 3rd, 4th chances...McDowell blew it. But 23rd chance? no freakin way.

I've had zero respect for slutty rothlicksboogerrapistsombietch, etc ...but after this asinine fiasco - nah. I have a picture of a big fox squirrel coming down a tree - he was 10' above my head. I took a pic of a baby Great Horned Owl in our woods. and deer. We want to camp more, fish more. But 22 failures???? is the face of the franchise?

nah. Won't be fun anymore, got better things to do this football season.

[calfoxwc]

14 minutes ago, laiccm said:

 It's on Cleveland fan to stop being so niave and personal

wrong - it isn't "naive" and "personal" to have strong moral stances in one's life. Everybody makes their own choices. Putting a sleazebucket is just unacceptable to me, regardless of what team it is.

[Dutch Oven]

9 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

 Why don't you just have pipey downsies

You are an alleged adult, who wrote "pipey downsies".

If you had a shred of self-respect, you would be goddamned embarrassed.

[hoorta]

6 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

The oline - I don't consider that a weapon - it's throwing and catching the ball. Getting open. Landry had trouble getting open vs man to man - Hooper and Njoku - kept dropping passes, Higgins never was a get open kind of wr vs man to man - it's just that teams knew the Browns had the oline and rb's to dominate a game, so they went man to man with a weak wr crew, and went to stop the run.

So they limited the run offense, and wr's couldn't get open. Doug Dieken said as much more than once. I'm just done - frustrated. Playing Baker hurt was stupid-ass. If they wanted to move on, and get a qb more like Mahomes, fine - but sleazebucket at qb? 3 first round....

never mind. It's just me - I don't care that much about spending time watching the Browns games anymore. Have better things to do.

If you don't consider the o-line a weapon or at least an integral part of a teams offence, I can't help you. Tim Couch and David Carr had their careers prematurely ended after their sieve o-lines got them beaten to a pulp. Regarding the Browns WRs. Yup, OBJ, Landry and Hooper ALL simultaneously starting playing like crap. Not a chance in the world the real reason was BAKER was playing like crap. Keep on making excuses for him though. The stats say the Browns were middle of the pack in drops. And it's hard to catch passes when Mayfield is sailing the ball 10' over their heads. Even Njoku can't jump that high. There's a high probability the reason the Browns can't currently get anything more than a sack of seeds for Baker is because every defensive coordinator in the league saw the same stuff Tia was posting. If you want to deny that stuff, please go back to your resident rabbit hole.  

It will be interesting to see what comes of the NFL Morality Police interviewing Watson's supposed victims. Will they believe them when two grand juries didn't? I have no doubts they will, just to make the PR look good.  I'm not going to say some stuff didn't happen, but plenty of his accusers aren't exactly angels either. To the tune of one of them trying to extort $30,000 out of Deshaun. Then you have their lawyer with ties to McNair representing them, going for the big cash settlement to make it all go away.   

[nickers]

1 hour ago, laiccm said:

If they wouodve signed anyone but Watsom then you just watching a losing team with no chance in the AFC. Picks are now dang near meaningless with a gunner at QB

Watson quit on the Texans as much as Hopkins and JJ Watt did and to say he tanked them instead of Bill Obrien and their pos owner is just comical. 

The point is many Cleveland fans think they personally know famous,  wealthy athletes and you don't. That's why Cleveland fans always like guys like Couch, Manziel, McCoy, Baker....etc mediocre talented QBs.They personally like these guys...but It's not a social club...its professional sports. POS people have flooded sports since its inception. Nothing new

 It's on Cleveland fan to stop being so niave and personal

Oh fuck you , you dumb idiot... Puhleeze.. spare me your bullshit take...

[laiccm]

37 minutes ago, hoorta said:

If you don't consider the o-line a weapon or at least an integral part of a teams offence, I can't help you. Tim Couch and David Carr had their careers prematurely ended after their sieve o-lines got them beaten to a pulp. Regarding the Browns WRs. Yup, OBJ, Landry and Hooper ALL simultaneously starting playing like crap. Not a chance in the world the real reason was BAKER was playing like crap. Keep on making excuses for him though. The stats say the Browns were middle of the pack in drops. And it's hard to catch passes when Mayfield is sailing the ball 10' over their heads. Even Njoku can't jump that high. There's a high probability the reason the Browns can't currently get anything more than a sack of seeds for Baker is because every defensive coordinator in the league saw the same stuff Tia was posting. If you want to deny that stuff, please go back to your resident rabbit hole.  

It will be interesting to see what comes of the NFL Morality Police interviewing Watson's supposed victims. Will they believe them when two grand juries didn't? I have no doubts they will, just to make the PR look good.  I'm not going to say some stuff didn't happen, but plenty of his accusers aren't exactly angels either. To the tune of one of them trying to extort $30,000 out of Deshaun. Then you have their lawyer with ties to McNair representing them, going for the big cash settlement to make it all go away.   

EXACTLY...

Things that are weird regarding the Deshaun Watson dilemma....

 

1. 22 is alot of alleges...its also alot to not indict. The grand jury can indict a ham sandwich as they say and could've indicted him on 1 charge and sent the other 21 packing for example. Find a case where the grand jury didn't indict someone on at least 1 charge when facing over 20 from over 20 different individuals? Almost unheard of..

 

2. You can go to prison when there's little to no evidence contrary to popular belief. There is a prisoner in every prison in the U.S. that is serving prison time where there's no evidence. The Freedom project wouldn't have to exist if it wasn't true. They help release wrongfully convicted citizens out of prison. Some cases the person wasn't even in the same locale. 

 

3. There are over 75,000 licensed Attorneys in the state of Texas. 1 man represents all 22 alleged victims and this man happens to be the neighbor and close friend of the Texans(Watson's former team) owner? The FBI wouldn't get involved because of a quarterback and inappropriate massages that didn't cross state lines. However, I venture to say they will get involved with a potential conspiracy charge involving an attorney and a billionaire owner.

 

I'm not implying Watson did or didn't do these acts....I am saying there are weird things surrounding it. The Cleveland Browns put some high profile and I'm sure highly paid private investigators on this case starting in December of last year. Can I find 22 women who will lie about a sexual assault....not likely. Can I find 22 individuals who will lie for 1 million dollars a piece? Give me an hour.....

[laiccm]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

wrong - it isn't "naive" and "personal" to have strong moral stances in one's life. Everybody makes their own choices. Putting a sleazebucket is just unacceptable to me, regardless of what team it is.

Wrong...its niave and it isn't based in reality. Only a child believes you truly know these famous, wealthy athletes. 

Spoiler alert....you dont. Not to mention the hypocrisy I've seen regarding this

I didn't leave my country when someone was made Prssident with 25 alleged sexual assaults so WTF would I leave my team because the quarterback has 22.?

GO BROWNS!!

[Dutch Oven]

36 minutes ago, laiccm said:

Wrong...its niave and it isn't based in reality. Only a child believes you truly know these famous, wealthy athletes. 

Spoiler alert....you dont. Not to mention the hypocrisy I've seen regarding this

I didn't leave my country when someone was made Prssident with 25 alleged sexual assaults so WTF would I leave my team because the quarterback has 22.?

GO BROWNS!!

$10 that cal responds with something along the lines of:

"That President was the victim of political assassination and he's a Christian and the quarterback isn't"

[Orion]

The Browns always seem to be quite entertaining in the offseason.

The Baker vs Brisset comparison is basically moot/irrelevant.  Brisset's style of football is why he's here.  Baker may have been a little more of a mobile QB in college, but not at the NFL level.  You've gotta be able to outrun a cop.

Nobody wants Baker right now.   Keep him on the roster.  Keep him at home.  Until somebody winds up needing him.  We're down 1 roster spot 'til then.

[calfoxwc]

50 minutes ago, Orion said:

Baker may have been a little more of a mobile QB in college, but not at the NFL level.  You've gotta be able to outrun a cop.

LOL. Excellent. LOL

[calfoxwc]

4 hours ago, hoorta said:

If you don't consider the o-line a weapon or at least an integral part of a teams offence, I can't help you. Tim Couch and David Carr had their careers prematurely ended after their sieve o-lines got them beaten to a pulp. Regarding the Browns WRs. Yup, OBJ, Landry and Hooper ALL simultaneously starting playing like crap. Not a chance in the world the real reason was BAKER was playing like crap. Keep on making excuses for him though. The stats say the Browns were middle of the pack in drops. And it's hard to catch passes when Mayfield is sailing the ball 10' over their heads. Even Njoku can't jump that high. There's a high probability the reason the Browns can't currently get anything more than a sack of seeds for Baker is because every defensive coordinator in the league saw the same stuff Tia was posting. If you want to deny that stuff, please go back to your resident rabbit hole.  

It will be interesting to see what comes of the NFL Morality Police interviewing Watson's supposed victims. Will they believe them when two grand juries didn't? I have no doubts they will, just to make the PR look good.  I'm not going to say some stuff didn't happen, but plenty of his accusers aren't exactly angels either. To the tune of one of them trying to extort $30,000 out of Deshaun. Then you have their lawyer with ties to McNair representing them, going for the big cash settlement to make it all go away.   

A. oh, come on. Let's define terms:

weapon

Also found in: Thesaurus, Medical, Legal, Acronyms, Idioms, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia.

weap·on

 (wĕp′ən)

n.

1. An instrument of attack or defense in combat, as a gun, missile, or sword.

So, a hand can hold a sword, and a shield can defend, but neither are weapons. RB/WR's/TE/QB are weapons. The offensive line is a shield to be able to protect long enough to use the weapons. Oline/shield necessary - but not a weapon

2. It is possible that one or two gals might be trying to a dishonest profit/lottery/court winning. But how in the hell does an NFL player go to a freaking ***22*** of them? when  the team has it's own mts?

 

[hoorta]

12 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

How many times have NFL qb's completed most of their passes to their offensive linemen, eh, Whoorta? Never said have nothin about the wr's have to be like the Bengals. I've mentioned plenty of teams who understand that they have to give their qb weapons. Why don't you just have pipey downsies and watch wr's be drafted this next draft.

Why don't you go over to you safey spacey elsewhere?  Quarterbacks can't complete passes when they're buried under a pile of defensive linemen FYI. I'm always fond of pointing out Lawrence Taylor & company made Joe Montana look like Joe Blow when his offensive line couldn't adequately protect him. That's hardly an isolated instance BTW.  So maybe you should pull your head out of your ass, and wander over to Walter Football's 2022 mock draft where he has SEVEN offensive linemen as opposed to THREE wrs going in the first round so just stuff it already.   

Regarding the Bengals studly WR corp... You're sure as hell inferring it. We had THREE pro Bowl WRs on the roster,  nit picking Cal thinks that's not good enough.  

 

12 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

A. oh, come on. Let's define terms

weapon
Also found in: Thesaurus, Medical, Legal, Acronyms, Idioms, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia.

weap·on

 (wĕp′ən)

n.

1. An instrument of attack or defense in combat, as a gun, missile, or sword.

So, a hand can hold a sword, and a shield can defend, but neither are weapons. RB/WR's/TE/QB are weapons. The offensive line is a shield to be able to protect long enough to use the weapons. Oline/shield necessary - but not a weapon

2. It is possible that one or two gals might be trying to a dishonest profit/lottery/court winning. But how in the hell does an NFL player go to a freaking ***22*** of them? when  the team has it's own mts?

I've had about enough of your whataboutism and spinning a definition to suit your lame imaginings...  there's DEFENSIVE weapons goofball...  the job of the o-line is to defend the guy making $20-40 million a year from getting killed.