Earl34 Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 I have to say that I've been to Cleveland many times and have always found the fans in Cleveland to be amongst my favorite anywhere. They have such a history and they're fun. Not being a native Clevelander though, I've never been one to read the Plain Dealer much. Today was too much. I have to put my foot down. This article by Mary Kay Cabot about Jamal Lewis being "rumored" to be on the chopping block is simply unacceptable. Why is it that most articles in this paper (especially the ones by Mary Kay) constantly reference the journalism of other journalists? That isn't journalism. That's copying. Are you telling me that the writers for this paper have to stoop to second-hand reporting of third-hand information? Please, Mary Kay....don't insult us. In the first paragraph, she reports that two other reporters are reporting a rumor. Let me tell you Mary Kay; I know people who've reported for a four letter network in the middle of Connecticut and I believe 1000% when I tell you that they are under pressure to get a "scoop" and many times it's based on the most delicate, loosely-based, lattice of faux-logic and half-truth that you can get. So, please, don't give me the crap about Adam Schefter or Mike Lombardi. All you're telling me is that if they're right, they're better reporters than you and if they're making it up....you weren't able to come up with the gobble-de-gook on your own. What you're doing here is spreading the rumor that Jamal is going to be cut but you aren't quoting anyone with any more knowledge of the situation than you. Girlfriend, it's gotta be better than that. There's a whole dog pound that deserves better (read: more responsible) reporting. Sorry for venting. Thanks for the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefjerky Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 I think that's how it is for most cities, and to be fair Brian Windhorst from the plain dealer is excellent at covering the cavs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl34 Posted September 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 I think that's how it is for most cities, and to be fair Brian Windhorst from the plain dealer is excellent at covering the cavs. Perhaps you know better but I can't say I've come across that in the cities I've lived in. The general quality of sports journalists does appear to be in decline though. Now that there's 24-hour coverage of sports it's almost like what expansion did to pitching in baseball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgolf221 Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 Couldn't agree more about the PD. Don't know what I dislike more: The crappy writers with agendas or the amounts of errors on any given day on Cleveland.com. Seriously, do they have editors? Outside of Terry Pluto and Windhorst, everyone else is almost unreadable. Bill Livingston's columns are boring and rarely have points. I refuse to read Bud Shaw after in 2005 he wrote an article on the Indians right before the final week of the season. After Sizemore lost a fly ball in the sun to lose a game, he wrote that it was an omen of a bad ending to the season. As you know, we went out, had a terrible last week, and missed the playoffs by 1 game. Why he wrote such a pessimistic article, I'll never know. And right now, Tony Grossi is so anti-Mangini that his articles are almost unreadable. He hates Mangini wont tell him anything and never misses an opportunity to take a shot at him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aloysius Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 I find it funny how PD writers cite nat'l media folks as sources on speculative, unsubstantiated stories, but they don't credit smaller local media outlets when they break a story first. I think that's ass backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl34 Posted September 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 He hates Mangini wont tell him anything and never misses an opportunity to take a shot at him. I'll tell you for a fact that Mangini couldn't care less (whether that's good or bad, I don't know...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gips Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 Mangini gives the local press a lot to not like about him so the PD has to scrape what they can from the national grapevine because the locals are shutout and getting nothing..mangini takes us to an all new level of old skool silince which isnt satisfying for us web citizens or the local press and nationally the browns dont exist except as a whipping post.... It makes it boring being a browns fan thats for sure...we get the same info that the PD gets mangini needs to do more local insider interviews on the otherhand he never has anything relevent to say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Dog Democrat Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 Weighing in as a former journalist... Do they have editors? No, not as many as they used to. Get ready to see even more errors than you see now. I understand the pressure on people like Mary Kay, who I think does a fine job. Time was, you would have (in-season) maybe three or four reporters plus at least two columnists on a major pro sports team beat. They wrote for one deadline (for the next day's paper) and generally they wrote one story. Now -- far as I can tell -- Tony and Mary Kay are it, and they're being asked to write for the paper, blog during the day, tweet, put together video and/or audio podcasts and presumably do other interviews for out-of-town media. Also, once upon a time, writers had more time to get everything in that one story right and more time to chase down every lead. If you got scooped, well -- it hurt, but really you could only get stung once per day, and you had plenty of time to make it up. It wasn't like your editor could make you go out and pick up all remaining copies of your newspaper and scribble the latest news into the margins. Now, you're burned the second something goes up on a blog or on a competitor's news website. So Cleveland.com's choices are to ask Mary Kay to write about rumors, or to just sit there for 12 or 23 more hours with nothing on the latest news. Hence, the roundup-type posts and Cleveland Blog Network content. Journalism is not rocket science, but it is like all other jobs: if you do a certain thing once a day, and you're asked to do it twice a day, then maybe you can absorb it... but if you're asked to suddenly do it 8 times a day, and three quarters of your co-workers are laid off at the same time, how are you going to fare? Final point -- yeah, Browns coverage suffers, but in the long view, Browns coverage doesn't matter. Where Cleveland will suffer, and every major city will suffer, is in local news and business coverage. Get ready for local elected officials to steal from you more often, developers to skirt all the rules and ruin your neighborhoods more often, etc., etc. I don't know why everyone is surprised to learn that it's not possible for a newspaper to operate when no one pays anything for the content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegasdogg Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 Great stuff Earl34. Agreed with all of that, and yes Mary Kay (and Grossi) you suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegasdogg Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 So Cleveland.com's choices are to ask Mary Kay to write about rumors, or to just sit there for 12 or 23 more hours with nothing on the latest news. If she did not suck so bad, maybe she could - oh I don't know - develop some relationships and sources of her own. Maybe if she was a good reporter she'd have someone she could source (off the record) to negate the nat'l writer. She cannot because she is a weasel and a snake and nobody trusts her. Grossi is teaching her all his shitty habits, because for a guy who reports on the Browns, rarely - and I mean RARELY - do I receive info from him I didn't already know. I see your point about sharing the resources for news and not having enough people. They also don't have the RIGHT people. These two suck. I am not a big fan of the press because their pushy, but they are VERY necessary for free societies to grow and adapt. But when it comes to horrible research, copy cat rumors, and overall piss-poor reporting, I am an unforgiving prick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClevelandSound Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 I am double majoring in Sports Media and Newspaper Journalism and I know for a fact that her article about Lewis is not only bullshit, but somewhat illegl. If she does not provide sufficient sources for her claims, that could be considered Slander or False Light in the court of law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob806 Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 Couldn't agree more about the PD. Don't know what I dislike more: The crappy writers with agendas or the amounts of errors on any given day on Cleveland.com. Seriously, do they have editors? Bill Livingston's columns are boring and rarely have points. Right on!!! I still remember Livingston basically running Earnest Byner out-of-town, and lost interest in his columns after that (Byner had two costly "unsportsmanlike call" penalties in a playoff game against Houston, the year after "the fumble"). Byner was a true pro, Livingston attacked him in print...it was bush-league. I also get tired of his 76er vs. Celtic BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunk Kosar Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 I agree - we seem to have a bunch of people who aren't "reporters" they are people who think can walk through their jobs for 50 years and they dont look at their jobs as nothing more then like a factory worker. They report nothing.. They just show up, laugh with the star or coach and walk through their jobs. Do you have to be a "Howard Stern" no! But maybe do your actual job and think about it everyday... right now its just a cakewalk job where they do nothing and pick up a paycheck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunk Kosar Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 Couldn't agree more about the PD. Don't know what I dislike more: The crappy writers with agendas or the amounts of errors on any given day on Cleveland.com. Seriously, do they have editors? Outside of Terry Pluto and Windhorst, everyone else is almost unreadable. Bill Livingston's columns are boring and rarely have points. I refuse to read Bud Shaw after in 2005 he wrote an article on the Indians right before the final week of the season. After Sizemore lost a fly ball in the sun to lose a game, he wrote that it was an omen of a bad ending to the season. As you know, we went out, had a terrible last week, and missed the playoffs by 1 game. Why he wrote such a pessimistic article, I'll never know. And right now, Tony Grossi is so anti-Mangini that his articles are almost unreadable. He hates Mangini wont tell him anything and never misses an opportunity to take a shot at him. I agree Pluto & Windhorst are the only legit reporters and they actually have talent. Watching Les Levine and hearing these guys, wow lets talk about Bill Livingston. He comes off like a bitch! Always crying and all defensive. Dude go wash your p*ssy. Watch Les on Mondays I think he is on everyweek and he sounds like a crybaby. If you slightly don't understand his point - you might even agree with him... but if you dont grab his complete point in 1 second ... he BOOOO WHOOOOO's with this crybaby voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 There used to be an antagonistic jerk named Tom Melody, with the Akron Beacon Journal years ago. He wrote the most dismal stuff I've ever read on the Browns - very critical of anything and everything. It makes the stuff today seem a major improvement, he was so bad. He wrote a great warm story about an Olympian, and I was shocked to see that he was able. I think the ABJ traded him to another newspaper for 2 lbs of pulp to get him out of dodge... Mary Kay - I don't think she isn't trusted as much as she isn't deemed knowlegeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sez.EJ Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 No doubt.. the Cleveland reports have been whining and pouting about Mangini and his not announcing the QB more than the people on this board....So since he will not cave in to thier wishes..they then attack him becuase he won't do what they want him to do in announcing the QB.. Mangini has balls to stand up for his principles and he is right... They act like he is harming the team.. What coach would do that.. the media are idiots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl34 Posted September 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 No doubt.. the Cleveland reports have been whining and pouting about Mangini and his not announcing the QB more than the people on this board....So since he will not cave in to thier wishes..they then attack him becuase he won't do what they want him to do in announcing the QB.. Mangini has balls to stand up for his principles and he is right... They act like he is harming the team.. What coach would do that.. the media are idiots Sez...He has his reasoning. It may not be apparent to us, but there is a reason. My guess is that he's trying to keep up the trade value of both guys as long as he can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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