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12 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Do we have the courage as a nation to actually take the Australian alternative which actually has worked well?

I think "desire" would be a better word for what you're describing. 

10 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Well at the moment I ain't givin' 'em up because myself and two others are primarily responsible for making sure the murderer of my last college roommate has failed two parole hearings. His next hearing is two years from now and if he fails that one he is scheduled for release in Aug 2025 regardless. The quandary now is do we argue for release in 2024 so he wears an ankle bracelet and has restrictions on where he can go while under supervision or do we once again assure that he fails it which keeps the target on us for revenge from this sociopath who meticulously planned out that murder. He would not be on parole or restriction of any kind if he finishes his time out.

That is fucked up. And I don't think that anyone would say that you're lacking courage because you're unwilling to give up your guns. 

10 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

Let may have asked you this. Since you touched on opioid addiction what would be the downside of decriminalizing opioid use? It would eliminate the need for the addict to indulge in criminal behavior by keeping costs down and also helping to guarantee the purity by taking the guesswork out of the street product? Not particularly my proposal just curious as to your opinion?

WSS 

Sorry, I could have been more clear. Fixing the opioid epidemic is a Herculean task, but it would be child's play compared to fixing the cultural issues plaguing urban and rural America. 

To answer your question - I don't know. I don't really think decriminalizing drugs would lead to an increase in usage. But just because something is legal, it doesn't mean people won't stoop to crime to satisfy a habit. I'm also not sure it would lead to a reduction in use of street drugs with unknown components. If you're broke and can afford fentanyl cut with x/y/z instead of the pure stuff from the pharmacy, I think most people would stick with what they can obtain. 

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And as much as I hate to admit it (because I love going to the range 5-6 times a year with multiple weapons and I carry concealed), Australia's draconian gun laws have worked and is the real model that would have to be implemented here.

Agreed. That's the only way guns could be get rid of here, but it's a logistical nightmare to the point of being unrealistic. 

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57 minutes ago, VaporTrail said:

Agreed. That's the only way guns could be get rid of here, but it's a logistical nightmare to the point of being unrealistic. 

We'll have to see what happens in Canada over the next weeks and months. I had doubts it would work in Australian and New Zealand at the time, but it has.

I'll also see what our Senator Cornyn is up to in the U.S. Senate. I know some here might have trouble believing it, but I did vote for him. He has more sense than most of the Republicans in Congress.

EDIT: https://www.texastribune.org/2022/05/26/ted-cruz-john-cornyn-gun-legislation-texas/

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10 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan1 said:

No fkn way that will EVER happen in the USA.

not even australia stopped violent crime.

come on, people.

    One day, after I got out of the service, my friends were going to a church, so I went. One day, I happened to have a question, one family had serious economic issues, and couldn't tithe. (10%). So, I asked the pastor about tithing - I said Biblically, they paid 10% of what they had to help the religious leaders have food. Like, 2 of their 20-count sheep. I asked why it's only tithing in money now, even for those who dont' have much.

    The pastor explained... "because it works for the church". I said, "well, sure, but robbing a bank works, but it isn't Biblical,...."

    Well, he got mad, I didn't know him well, and kicked me out of the church. I simply nodded and left. He called me a few days later, apologizing - and admitted he couldn't answer my question legitmately and I had a point. Going to church every Sunday was short-lived after that.

   SO, banning guns works? so does putting all Americans in straight jackets.

   "haha". Living in communist countries is like the latter. I suppose they don't ever have mass murders.

   Violent crime went UP. Society can't protect itself anymore if there weren't guns. A gun is just a tool.

   Tools can be misused. Being able to protect one's family is a RIGHT. That is why it is a guaranteed Amendment.

   Guns are more effective than pencils or screwdrivers, sure. That is why we HAVE our 2nd Amendment. To protect ourselves. Your local police dept can't be everywhere, and can't get their fast enough.

************************

However, they have been decreasing at a consistent rate since well before the gun ban and the worst year was experienced after the 1996 gun ban. By the Numbers. There are many sources which can be cited for Australia's increase in violent crime since their gun ban. The best source among these options is likely the Australian government itself.
In the relatively high homicide days of the early 1990s, Australia's homicides totaled around 300. This means in a bad crime year, in which homicides increase by only 20 or 30 victims, it could swing overall rates noticeably. This brings us to our other problem with using post-1996 homicide data as definitive proof of anything.
After the gun ban, violent crime rates were up: Yes, as with the gun-happy United States, the murder rate is down in Australia. It's dropped 31 percent from a rate of 1.6 per 100,000 people in 1994 to 1.1 per 100,000 in 2012.But it's the only serious crime that saw a consistent decline post-ban. In fact, according to the Australian ...
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2 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan1 said:

You never know what you'll do until you have live rounds coming your way.  

granted. From what I read, whatever officer that was in charge, decided that the shooter was barricaded or something.

   How the bleep do you decide that? I just think it was an excuse. The shooter was in the school for 40 some minutes before they went in?

   So much that makes no sense. I believe it was the Chief ? or somebody on the news conference that admitted it was a serious mistake that they did not go in.

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8 hours ago, Vambo said:

Of course she does. Something I have noticed recently in the media oh, and I'm not sure why, is commonly referring to these things as AR-15 "assault Style" weapons. Because, as you know, they aren't really AR-15s they're just made to look scary. Or at least most of them.

WSS 

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3 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

Of course she does. Something I have noticed recently in the media oh, and I'm not sure why, is commonly referring to these things as AR-15 "assault Style" weapons. Because, as you know, they aren't really AR-15s they're just made to look scary. Or at least most of them.

WSS 

I think what you mean is they are not really M-16s with full auto or semi-auto selection, but AR-15 semi-autos. It was bump stocks that convert them to full auto such as the ones in the Vegas shooter's hands. Or someone with gunsmith skills can make them into full auto which is currently illegal. And just so you know the military when I was in did training primarily on the semi-auto selection so as not to waste ammo. They let you know not to use the auto selection unless you are being overrun by so many enemy that you needed machinegun like firepower to stop as many as you could as fast as you could very close in on top of you.

So actually she is right about them being assault rifles in the way people are trained to use them. I doubt that training has changed any with them since I was in service. Conservation of ammo and effective use is always at a premium.

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24 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I think what you mean is they are not really M-16s with full auto or semi-auto selection, but AR-15 semi-autos. It was bump stocks that convert them to full auto such as the ones in the Vegas shooter's hands. Or someone with gunsmith skills can make them into full auto which is currently illegal. And just so you know the military when I was in did training primarily on the semi-auto selection so as not to waste ammo. They let you know not to use the auto selection unless you are being overrun by so many enemy that you needed machinegun like firepower to stop as many as you could as fast as you could very close in on top of you.

So actually she is right about them being assault rifles in the way people are trained to use them. I doubt that training has changed any with them since I was in service. Conservation of ammo and effective use is always at a premium.

I mentioned the use of the word Style and I wasn't wrong. A semi-automatic weapon is not an automatic weapon. My Browning 9 mm is semi-automatic. I'm not concerned with fully automatic weapons which are illegal except with very special privilege I'm not concerned with bump stocks which are illegal now as far as I know and I'm not concerned with what a gunsmith or a machinist can do to change a weapon to fully automatic. Anymore that I care about somebody's ability to turn a propane tank into a bomb.

WSS 

PS neither am I concerned with my own ability to saw off a shotgun barrel.

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Another side of the Border debate while Democrats love illegals it's also glowing weapons to flood the United States. And Fentanyl for those of you who think that's a bad thing.

"The flow of guns from the U.S. to Mexico is getting lost in the border debate | PBS NewsHour" https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/the-flow-of-guns-from-the-u-s-to-mexico-is-getting-lost-in-the-border-debate

WSS

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23 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

granted. From what I read, whatever officer that was in charge, decided that the shooter was barricaded or something.

   How the bleep do you decide that? I just think it was an excuse. The shooter was in the school for 40 some minutes before they went in?

   So much that makes no sense. I believe it was the Chief ? or somebody on the news conference that admitted it was a serious mistake that they did not go in.

You have to remember.  This is a small town.  These cops have probably only drawn their weapon when at the range.  Have never taken fire.  The school resource officer is probably older and has never dealt with anything remotely similar to this happening in his entire career.

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2 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I think what you mean is they are not really M-16s with full auto or semi-auto selection, but AR-15 semi-autos. It was bump stocks that convert them to full auto such as the ones in the Vegas shooter's hands. Or someone with gunsmith skills can make them into full auto which is currently illegal. And just so you know the military when I was in did training primarily on the semi-auto selection so as not to waste ammo. They let you know not to use the auto selection unless you are being overrun by so many enemy that you needed machinegun like firepower to stop as many as you could as fast as you could very close in on top of you.

So actually she is right about them being assault rifles in the way people are trained to use them. I doubt that training has changed any with them since I was in service. Conservation of ammo and effective use is always at a premium.

If these are illegal and they are still getting them why would you think that if you make AR-15's illegal they couldn't still get them?

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1 hour ago, Westside Steve said:

Another side of the Border debate while Democrats love illegals it's also glowing weapons to flood the United States. And Fentanyl for those of you who think that's a bad thing.

"The flow of guns from the U.S. to Mexico is getting lost in the border debate | PBS NewsHour" https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/the-flow-of-guns-from-the-u-s-to-mexico-is-getting-lost-in-the-border-debate

WSS

Yes, we export guns to other country 

We produce guns and thoughts and prayers. 

 

We give cartels guns and then we keep them around thanks to our delusional war on drugs. 

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39 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

Yes, we export guns to other country 

We produce guns and thoughts and prayers. 

 

We give cartels guns and then we keep them around thanks to our delusional war on drugs. 

Hey I understand your obsession with legalized marijuana, no problem. I don't see the great Boon to society but what the hell. Of course what I was talking about when I mentioned Fentanyl which is probably a little bit more detrimental to society but of course it's the next step right? That again the weapons that come into the United States aren't u.s. made so there's that. Those that are smuggled into the country are probably made elsewhere. For example: we're not supposed to get any Weaponry from China right?

"Federal operation nabs nearly 43,000 illegal gun silencers shipped from China" https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/illegal-gun-silencers-china-rcna28505

WSS

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6 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

Of course she does. Something I have noticed recently in the media oh, and I'm not sure why, is commonly referring to these things as AR-15 "assault Style" weapons. Because, as you know, they aren't really AR-15s they're just made to look scary. Or at least most of them.

WSS 

Nope, AR-15s are essentially the same weapon our combat troops use. Other than their extremely limited use for long range varmint hunting... They have one purpose... to kill people.  Legit hunting weapons aren't designed to hold mega magazines.. Because whatever you're shooting at will either get out of range- or be dead- before you'd have the necessity to reload.  It's pure bullshit you can't adequately define the difference between an assault style weapon and guns meant for hunting.  And yeah- before you bring it up, I certainly know you can currently buy mega clips for handguns too... See below....   

42 minutes ago, Vambo said:

If these are illegal and they are still getting them why would you think that if you make AR-15's illegal they couldn't still get them?

Well, convicted felons usually aren't allowed to own firearms either Vambo... That certainly hasn't stopped them from obtaining them.  Yeah, I saw somewhere there's a reservoir of something like 400,000,000 guns out there, more than one per US resident. Banning the sale of AR-15s and their relatives is going to be largely symbolic, they're not going away anytime soon.  But what will have a (small) effect is banning the sale and I dare say possession of large capacity magazines?  Took me about 10 seconds to find a gun shop willing and able to sell me a 100 round .223 drum... $120 bucks + shipping.  :(  You against that?  I believe Vermont already has enacted legislation to that effect... 10 rounds max.   

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44 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Hey I understand your obsession with legalized marijuana, no problem. I don't see the great Boon to society but what the hell. Of course what I was talking about when I mentioned Fentanyl which is probably a little bit more detrimental to society but of course it's the next step right? That again the weapons that come into the United States aren't u.s. made so there's that. Those that are smuggled into the country are probably made elsewhere. For example: we're not supposed to get any Weaponry from China right?

"Federal operation nabs nearly 43,000 illegal gun silencers shipped from China" https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/illegal-gun-silencers-china-rcna28505

WSS

Obsession? Oh lord. Typical Steve responses like that are why it isn't worth engaging with you, fyi. 

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11 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Nope, AR-15s are essentially the same weapon our combat troops use. Other than their extremely limited use for long range varmint hunting... They have one purpose... to kill people.  Legit hunting weapons aren't designed to hold mega magazines.. Because whatever you're shooting at will either get out of range- or be dead- before you'd have the necessity to reload.  It's pure bullshit you can't adequately define the difference between an assault style weapon and guns meant for hunting.  And yeah- before you bring it up, I certainly know you can currently buy mega clips for handguns too... See below....   

Well, convicted felons usually aren't allowed to own firearms either Vambo... That certainly hasn't stopped them from obtaining them.  Yeah, I saw somewhere there's a reservoir of something like 400,000,000 guns out there, more than one per US resident. Banning the sale of AR-15s and their relatives is going to be largely symbolic, they're not going away anytime soon.  But what will have a (small) effect is banning the sale and I dare say possession of large capacity magazines?  Took me about 10 seconds to find a gun shop willing and able to sell me a 100 round .223 drum... $120 bucks + shipping.  :(  You against that?  I believe Vermont already has enacted legislation to that effect... 10 rounds max.   

And every time you Libs go on the ban this and that the sales of those things skyrocket..you people are the best advertisement the gun manufactures need.

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32 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

Obsession? Oh lord. Typical Steve responses like that are why it isn't worth engaging with you, fyi. 

Dude you go on and on about legalizing weed. I have no problem with it just pointing it out. Now for the rest of the statements you can wait till the Smoke Clears and answer those instead of just crying about it.

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2 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan1 said:

You have to remember.  This is a small town.  These cops have probably only drawn their weapon when at the range.  Have never taken fire.  The school resource officer is probably older and has never dealt with anything remotely similar to this happening in his entire career.

They said the entire school police force is 6 men including the Chief.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/27/uvalde-police-school-chief/

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1 hour ago, Vambo said:

And every time you Libs go on the ban this and that the sales of those things skyrocket.. you people are the best advertisement the gun manufactures need.

OMG... Better get a gun before they're banned. :D The cure for gun violence is more guns. Sorry, not buying it.  Sort of like folks hoarding toilet paper at the start of the pandemic.  

And you didn't answer the question- are you for or against the sale of high capacity magazines? I think I already know the answer though.  

This isn't a Liberal\Conservative issue in my book. It's about public safety, and slowing down the carnage that's taking place at an ever increasing rate. On the streets, in Churches.. In hospitals...  Yup- right here in Dayton Ohio.  Guy transferred from jail- no previous background of violence gets sent to Miami Valley Hospital for an evaluation. Grabs a security officer's gun, kills him and then kills himself.  I sure want to see more of that- NOT.  Arm the teachers?  Better arm inner city Emergency Room personnel while we're at it.   

Don't know how many times I have to repeat it to get it through your thick head- I'm FAR from being a "Liberal" starting with being very much pro-life. I just happen to be pro-sanity when it comes to politics. Better watch out though- those orbiting Jewish Space Lasers may malfunction, and start targeting you.   :D :D :D  

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